same standard for the whole school

[Grizo406]

Royce was hired to manage the ENTIRE school and is responsible for his managers, department heads, just as Oday was responible for Pflu.

If Oday is to be thrown into the fire for lack of leadership due to him not overseeing Pflu then Engstrom is liable for his own inactions in overseeing the entire school and department heads as well.

You cant argue Oday takes the blame for people he directly manages, then say Engstrom who DIRECTLY manages ALL the departments at UM is not responsible for them.

People on here pontificating about Oday promoting violence and sexual attacks towards women are blatantly overlooking Royce Engstrom doing the same for the entire Institution at the University of Montana. I dont think they men are truely to blame for this but I am rebutting the attacks on Oday saying he had this coming. If Oday had this public lynching coming then Engstrom has a spot reserved right next to him on the gallows.

Im sure there is one Saudi who would like to thank Royce Engstrom and his department heads personally.

Dude, if a worker is stealing candy bars from Costco, should Jim Sinegal be fired? After all, he's responsible for the entire orgnaization.




I think eveyone recognizes how ridiculous that notion would be. Management hires people to do their work. When that work isn't getting done properly, they replace those people.




As to the rest of your outrageous rant, I'll simply say these two things: Jim is a great friend of mine, and I'm hurting over this. I don't blame him for what has gone on at UM, but as I said earlier, I'll leave it to others to argue about whether the terminations were justified. But the notion that Royce has to go also is misguided at best.

Nicely done, EG! :clap: :clap: :thumb:

 

[GrizLA]

ok one program but of course you pick a program that if they get in trouble they will NEVER get a job! let's try another one like the journalism program or music or how many others!

I'll bet the things that happen at band camp would bring the marching band to ruin! PS: I heard there's "roid rage" in the tuba section...

well me a river i'm sure some think it's ok for a double standard because it's not much fun reporting that a journalism student got a dui or beat the f#@k out of someone(like they could :lol: )

If they are on scholarship, they would.

 

[GrizLA]

ok one program but of course you pick a program that if they get in trouble they will NEVER get a job! let's try another one like the journalism program or music or how many others!

I'll bet the things that happen at band camp would bring the marching band to ruin! PS: I heard there's "roid rage" in the tuba section...

The marching band is too busy during the season to get in trouble. :lol:

Tell that to Stanford.

 

[Growler1]

Royce was hired to manage the ENTIRE school and is responsible for his managers, department heads, just as Oday was responible for Pflu.

If Oday is to be thrown into the fire for lack of leadership due to him not overseeing Pflu then Engstrom is liable for his own inactions in overseeing the entire school and department heads as well.

You cant argue Oday takes the blame for people he directly manages, then say Engstrom who DIRECTLY manages ALL the departments at UM is not responsible for them.

People on here pontificating about Oday promoting violence and sexual attacks towards women are blatantly overlooking Royce Engstrom doing the same for the entire Institution at the University of Montana. I dont think they men are truely to blame for this but I am rebutting the attacks on Oday saying he had this coming. If Oday had this public lynching coming then Engstrom has a spot reserved right next to him on the gallows.

Im sure there is one Saudi who would like to thank Royce Engstrom and his department heads personally.


Your hard-on for Royce gets softer every time you lay more of your illogical rhetoric on us. You have spun it about every way possible. Now, double-up on your Paxil and get some sleep.

 

[Grizhugger]

When attending a game last fall I was shocked to see an out-of-control (under-age) student who was obviously drunk streak around the stadium for several minutes for everyone to witness (including children in attendence) his bad behavior. I don't think that type of act would be tolerated at most schools for as long as he was allowed to parade around. He should have been immediatly covered up and hand-cuffed (oh excuse me, I guess he had rights....is that why he was allowed to prance around for so long????, is this what my dollars are paying for????) and hauled off and expelled. Period.. Clearly the campus police did not know how to handle it (if they did they sure waited a long time to deal with this kid and let him run around for quite some time) and when they did escort the kid out of the stadium they did not bother to cover him up, they just walked him around so he cold show himself off even more to everyone and their grandmother in attendance.....hmmm who should be responsible for how this was handled and how a student was able to be so out of control and get away with indecent behavior exposing himself to thousands of people at a very public event? Does anyone else feel this was handled badly?

 

[number1debater]

They do have the same standard if not even a harsher one for other students. A buddy of mine a few years back got accused of sexual assault on the campus. The claim was so frivolous that the prosecutor dropped the charges in the first two weeks. BUT, the University still suspended him from all his courses until the civil action could take place. Point is, don't think the players have it so bad, and don't forget alumni paid for the players to go to school and represent them.

 

[kemajic]

When attending a game last fall I was shocked to see an out-of-control (under-age) student who was obviously drunk streak around the stadium for several minutes for everyone to witness (including children in attendence) his bad behavior. I don't think that type of act would be tolerated at most schools for as long as he was allowed to parade around. He should have been immediatly covered up and hand-cuffed (oh excuse me, I guess he had rights....is that why he was allowed to prance around for so long????, is this what my dollars are paying for????) and hauled off and expelled. Period.. Clearly the campus police did not know how to handle it (if they did they sure waited a long time to deal with this kid and let him run around for quite some time) and when they did escort the kid out of the stadium they did not bother to cover him up, they just walked him around so he cold show himself off even more to everyone and their grandmother in attendance.....hmmm who should be responsible for how this was handled and how a student was able to be so out of control and get away with indecent behavior exposing himself to thousands of people at a very public event? Does anyone else feel this was handled badly?

It was a pathetic response by UM security; very bush. I suppose that was O'Day and Phlugrad's fault, too. Engstrom had to be embarrassed; it was a very bad reflection on UM.

 

[grizzpaw]

They do have the same standard if not even a harsher one for other students. A buddy of mine a few years back got accused of sexual assault on the campus. The claim was so frivolous that the prosecutor dropped the charges in the first two weeks. BUT, the University still suspended him from all his courses until the civil action could take place. Point is, don't think the players have it so bad, and don't forget alumni paid for the players to go to school and represent them.

bullsh#t the foreign exchange program has had problems since the 1970's! how many RAPES have these students gotten away with? it was a problem at montana then and as far as i can see it's STILL a problem. that's forty years worth of rapes gone unreported because the students just leave. the for

 

[wbtfg]

The streaker got expelled.

I remember the rabble risers calling for him to be charged with a felony and be labeled as a sex offender.

Looking back, the streaker incident seems like small potatoes (no pun intended).

 

[GrizMusician]

ok one program but of course you pick a program that if they get in trouble they will NEVER get a job! let's try another one like the journalism program or music or how many others!

I'll bet the things that happen at band camp would bring the marching band to ruin! PS: I heard there's "roid rage" in the tuba section...

The marching band is too busy during the season to get in trouble. :lol:

Tell that to Stanford.

I knew some people in the Stanford band a few years back, & from the sounds of it the Stanford band has a major alcohol issue. I spent three years in the marching band at UM, & while like all college students we like to drink, it never interfered with our practices or performances, & we never got into trouble. The Grizzly Marching Band is a very respectable group on campus.

 

[MTGriz87]

each pharmacy class has about a hundred kids. i doubt 2 of them have found any trouble like the griz have.

you are just blathering.

I am a pharmacy student at the U, and it's funny you wrote this because my friend and I were just discussing this the other day. Each pharmacy class has 65 students. In my time here, two have ended up in jail for partner/family member assault for 'lover's quarrels' I suppose - I say this because both cases were women being jailed, oddly enough. Interesting in the fact that it probably would have been handled differently if these were men with the same charges.

But if we make a fair comparison to the football team, legal troubles are cited 5-6 years back it seems, and they are somehow additive to current troubles. In the past, I have heard of a student caught masturbating in the student lounge and another student who was nearly done with pharmacy school was in trouble for sexual harassment at work. I am sure there have been other transgressions that took place before I was in the program.

Now how about alumni? I think MSU's Gatewood was no longer a member of the team when he was in trouble (correct?), yet his legal troubles were traced back to the football team. You would be amazed at some of the things UM pharmacy alumni have been in trouble for - drug diversion, theft, even methamphetamine manufacture.

My point is, while nothing quite meets the gravity of sexual assault, pharmacy is a professional program, and things still take place here. These students are selected to be in the program, much like football players are recruited. The pharmacy school has a scholarship pool specifically for pharmacy students, much like football players have scholarships. The parallels are definitely there.

So what if next year one of us pharmacy students gets tased by the cops at a house party? And then maybe a male student is accused of sexual assault? Would anyone expect that we hold the pharmacy schools dean of students responsible for the students' actions?

 

[grizzpaw]

thanks for a real answer. with 12000 plus, it would stand to reason more students than football players get in JUST as much trouble if not more.

 

[MaxximusGriz13]

So if I'm on a journalism scholarship and get in to trouble, will my professors' get fired? Hmmm

Or just the Head of the Department?

Obvisouly, by reading this post, I ain't no writer...