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Sad Reaction to Weber Game

citygriz

Well-known member
As many of you on this board can tell, I've been a fan of Griz basketball for years. Way before football became the dominant sport, way before many of you made your appearance on this earth.

And so the loss last night, such a humiliating, deflating performance against our main basketball rival going back decades, the despised Weber State, should have been cause for crushing sadness, an emotional eclipse of the sun, the beginning of the apocalypse!

But guess what? I could care less. I have simply lost any emotional connection to this team.

And so this morning, I have spent a lot of time wondering why.

It started with the absence of Money Williams. Okay, he's hurt, unable to play. That's not the issue.

Mine was, nobody told me he wouldn't play. This has been a question on the minds of Griz fans since he got hurt: Would he play against Weber? But nobody on this coaching staff cared enough to tell its fan base he wouldn't play. I tried to watch the game on my laptop, not the best clarity of image, but when I scanned the bench, I did not see him there.

If I missed the announcement, my bad. But no mention of it on this board, or on the lengthy pre-game article on the Griz app. Another small gesture to indicate this coaching staff has zero connection to its fan base. And while I don't live in Missoula, it's clear from the comments on this board that the administration's attitude toward the fans and the students at home games has not been beneficial to the program.

And remember, of the three elements of any sports program--the Administration (including the coaches), the Talent (the players) and the Fans (ah, us!) the Fans are the most important, because with us, without our support and our money, the other two elements become the Cross Country program.

But there's more.

For football fans--and I am one too!--there is a strong connection to the players. While I am no fan of Bobby Hauck's mumbling press conferences, I am of the kids who also show up--A.J. Forbes, Braxton Hill, Junior Bergen. The championship run has amplified their presence, and while I confess I don't live in the Missoula media market, I don't know the last time I've seen an interview with a Griz basketball player.

Then there's the tradition. It's become chapter and verse of memorable games that are part of Griz lore: The championship win at Marshall; the App State game; the stunning comeback against South Dakota State; and now the win in OT against North Dakota State. Basketball? The greatest game was a loss against UCLA before most on this board were born, followed by a first-round victory over Nevada under Kyrstkowiack. Any others? Not off the top of my head.

Then there's the Montana element. The football program prides itself on its Montana players, and has established a tradition around the number "37." But basketball? It's just chapter and verse of great Montana players who've left the state completely, going all the way back to Wayne Estes and Mike Lewis, continuing with each of the three Tinkle kids, and most recently, Rollie Worster, now a starter for Utah. I'm not a huge homer but I have to confess, it does make a difference over time when there is not a single Montana kid in the eight-man rotation.

So there you have it. I don't express this sentiment out of anger, more of sadness. Because my l-o-n-g emotional connection to the great tradition that once was the Montana basketball program is drying up faster than the Great Salt Lake.
 
To me, Decuire and the program had momentum with the fans when they were putting on a show. You had Rorie throwing lobs to Oguine, the offense would cut to the basket for dunks, Sayeed was ballin with the mid range game. That's when I felt like I NEEDED to go to home games. This team just isn't that fun to watch. With football, its the best and biggest show in town. And they usually can back that up with good play. The basketball games will not ever get close to that without a team that can put the ball in the hoop. Shoot, even Timmy Falls made the games fun to watch! I'll always follow and root for the Bball team, but as of the last 4 or 5 years I can watch them struggle for points from my couch.
 
citay said:
As many of you on this board can tell, I've been a fan of Griz basketball for years. Way before football became the dominant sport, way before many of you made your appearance on this earth.

And so the loss last night, such a humiliating, deflating performance against our main basketball rival going back decades, the despised Weber State, should have been cause for crushing sadness, an emotional eclipse of the sun, the beginning of the apocalypse!

But guess what? I could care less. I have simply lost any emotional connection to this team.

And so this morning, I have spent a lot of time wondering why.

It started with the absence of Money Williams. Okay, he's hurt, unable to play. That's not the issue.

Mine was, nobody told me he wouldn't play. This has been a question on the minds of Griz fans since he got hurt: Would he play against Weber? But nobody on this coaching staff cared enough to tell its fan base he wouldn't play. I tried to watch the game on my laptop, not the best clarity of image, but when I scanned the bench, I did not see him there.

If I missed the announcement, my bad. But no mention of it on this board, or on the lengthy pre-game article on the Griz app. Another small gesture to indicate this coaching staff has zero connection to its fan base. And while I don't live in Missoula, it's clear from the comments on this board that the administration's attitude toward the fans and the students at home games has not been beneficial to the program.

And remember, of the three elements of any sports program--the Administration (including the coaches), the Talent (the players) and the Fans (ah, us!) the Fans are the most important, because with us, without our support and our money, the other two elements become the Cross Country program.

But there's more.

For football fans--and I am one too!--there is a strong connection to the players. While I am no fan of Bobby Hauck's mumbling press conferences, I am of the kids who also show up--A.J. Forbes, Braxton Hill, Junior Bergen. The championship run has amplified their presence, and while I confess I don't live in the Missoula media market, I don't know the last time I've seen an interview with a Griz basketball player.

Then there's the tradition. It's become chapter and verse of memorable games that are part of Griz lore: The championship win at Marshall; the App State game; the stunning comeback against South Dakota State; and now the win in OT against North Dakota State. Basketball? The greatest game was a loss against UCLA before most on this board were born, followed by a first-round victory over Nevada under Kyrstkowiack. Any others? Not off the top of my head.

Then there's the Montana element. The football program prides itself on its Montana players, and has established a tradition around the number "37." But basketball? It's just chapter and verse of great Montana players who've left the state completely, going all the way back to Wayne Estes and Mike Lewis, continuing with each of the three Tinkle kids, and most recently, Rollie Worster, now a starter for Utah. I'm not a huge homer but I have to confess, it does make a difference over time when there is not a single Montana kid in the eight-man rotation.

So there you have it. I don't express this sentiment out of anger, more of sadness. Because my l-o-n-g emotional connection to the great tradition that once was the Montana basketball program is drying up faster than the Great Salt Lake.

No emotional attachment?? So is it the babbling writing itself that you live for......or the reading it again later. It sure takes you a long time to not say much.

Coaches don't always disclose injuries! Most care less about the "fan base" than giving the opponents advance notice of key injuries.
 
Mousegriz said:
citay said:
As many of you on this board can tell, I've been a fan of Griz basketball for years. Way before football became the dominant sport, way before many of you made your appearance on this earth.

And so the loss last night, such a humiliating, deflating performance against our main basketball rival going back decades, the despised Weber State, should have been cause for crushing sadness, an emotional eclipse of the sun, the beginning of the apocalypse!

But guess what? I could care less. I have simply lost any emotional connection to this team.

And so this morning, I have spent a lot of time wondering why.

It started with the absence of Money Williams. Okay, he's hurt, unable to play. That's not the issue.

Mine was, nobody told me he wouldn't play. This has been a question on the minds of Griz fans since he got hurt: Would he play against Weber? But nobody on this coaching staff cared enough to tell its fan base he wouldn't play. I tried to watch the game on my laptop, not the best clarity of image, but when I scanned the bench, I did not see him there.

If I missed the announcement, my bad. But no mention of it on this board, or on the lengthy pre-game article on the Griz app. Another small gesture to indicate this coaching staff has zero connection to its fan base. And while I don't live in Missoula, it's clear from the comments on this board that the administration's attitude toward the fans and the students at home games has not been beneficial to the program.

And remember, of the three elements of any sports program--the Administration (including the coaches), the Talent (the players) and the Fans (ah, us!) the Fans are the most important, because with us, without our support and our money, the other two elements become the Cross Country program.

But there's more.

For football fans--and I am one too!--there is a strong connection to the players. While I am no fan of Bobby Hauck's mumbling press conferences, I am of the kids who also show up--A.J. Forbes, Braxton Hill, Junior Bergen. The championship run has amplified their presence, and while I confess I don't live in the Missoula media market, I don't know the last time I've seen an interview with a Griz basketball player.

Then there's the tradition. It's become chapter and verse of memorable games that are part of Griz lore: The championship win at Marshall; the App State game; the stunning comeback against South Dakota State; and now the win in OT against North Dakota State. Basketball? The greatest game was a loss against UCLA before most on this board were born, followed by a first-round victory over Nevada under Kyrstkowiack. Any others? Not off the top of my head.

Then there's the Montana element. The football program prides itself on its Montana players, and has established a tradition around the number "37." But basketball? It's just chapter and verse of great Montana players who've left the state completely, going all the way back to Wayne Estes and Mike Lewis, continuing with each of the three Tinkle kids, and most recently, Rollie Worster, now a starter for Utah. I'm not a huge homer but I have to confess, it does make a difference over time when there is not a single Montana kid in the eight-man rotation.

So there you have it. I don't express this sentiment out of anger, more of sadness. Because my l-o-n-g emotional connection to the great tradition that once was the Montana basketball program is drying up faster than the Great Salt Lake.

No emotional attachment?? So is it the babbling writing itself that you live for......or the reading it again later. It sure takes you a long time to not say much.

Coaches don't always disclose injuries! Most care less about the "fan base" than giving the opponents advance notice of key injuries.

Mouse: You say so little. But even that is too much.
 
I'll only comment on Money's injury.
As long as we're not told about it, opponents have to dedicate time preparing for him. DeCuire is smart in doing this.
 
TDC puts a premium on defense and lately, I wonder if it is such an emphasis on recruiting and development that it comes at the expense of offense or shooting development. I also think it is fair to ask “Why?” To win the Big Sky and get a garbage seed and get beat because the other teams offense is better and your team can’t score on a consistent basis?

As much as folks will say “defense wins championships”, it is shooting that keeps you in NCAA tournament games….especially when you are a 14/15/16 seed which is what the Big Sky Conference champ will always get.

Why not make your offense fun to watch? Might even accidentally get butts in seats.

All that being said, TDC runs a program that wins a decentish amount of games and graduates his players.

It’d just be cool to see all the stars align with a fun offense and maybe a couple upsets in the NCAA tourney.
 
mtgrizrule said:
I'll only comment on Money's injury.
As long as we're not told about it, opponents have to dedicate time preparing for him. DeCuire is smart in doing this.

Rule: I understand the thinking. I simply disagree. Here's why.

Most teams have well-defined and well-practised systems for both offense and defense. Yes, they might throw a variation at an exceptional player, such as a collapsing zone on a big or a box-and-one on an outstanding shooter. But since Money is not an outstanding outside shooter, I can't imagine Weber would have changed their defensive plans just for him.

On the flip side, Weber has heard all about this kid, and now they learn he won't play. Wouldn't there be a letdown on their part knowing in advance their opponent's star player was out?

But this is DeCuire's personality: Everything close to the vest. Secrecy rather than transparency. Defense rather than offense. Coaching from the sidelines like the point guard he was rather than letting kids play. No offensive coordinator: "I've got this!" Little outreach to the fan base. Everything under control.

Winning changes all. Let's hope Money gets well soon. Let's hope the Weber game was football's Northern Arizona. But right now, this board is dead while the Lady Griz are ascending--and way more fun to watch.
 
Between Citay, Grizjournal, and mtgrizrule, I learn about 95% of what I need to know about Griz/LGriz basketball. I'm not a huge bball fan, but certainly root for our men and women, and attend games in those rare moments that I can (haven't been able to watch either team live yet this season). If Citay is concerned about some/any aspect of what's happening on the court, I'm inclined to perk up and try to pay extra attention to whatever that concern is as I watch the next time. I'm pretty agnostic as far as coaches sharing injury info. I get the arguments for/against, but just don't feel strongly enough to allow that to have much to say in my assessment of a program. For me, the things that most move the needle on the Scale of Judgement (SoJ:), are: the over-arching pillars of principle that guide the program (is everyone pulling in the same direction/100% buy-in, team and staff unity, high levels of camaraderie and morale). Every team, in every sport, in every season (unless you're SDSU Football, apparently) will hit stumbling blocks. How these bumps in the road are responded to says much about a team and staff's character. So that becomes the other important metric that I use on my SoJ in thinking about a program. TDC is a Missoula legend as both a player and coach, and as such, gets damn-near endless rope, as far as I'm concerned, to run the program as he sees fit. Their's likely never been a more challenging era in which to coach at the college level...especially at the mid-major level. So I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet on this team. Not even close...
 
mtgrizrule said:
I'll only comment on Money's injury.
As long as we're not told about it, opponents have to dedicate time preparing for him. DeCuire is smart in doing this.
Yes, teams do some preparation for individual players. There is generally a breakdown of each contributing player's tendencies and a discussion on how to guard that player. However, more time is spent on breaking down what the other teams offence and defense are trying to accomplish and the general approach to that. If that player is not in the game for any reason, I don't think the approach to the game changes that much. The biggest in game adjustments happen when a team shows something that you have not yet seen on film. It doesn't happen that often. A couple decades ago, weber had a coach who put in new plays for every opponent. You never knew what you might see. Probably was the reason we were able to beat Nort Carolina in the tournament. Ron had a whole week to prepare sets to attack their weaknesses.

With this version of the Wildcats, players are taught to read what the other team is doing and react on the fly. Sometimes adjustments are made by coaches and sometimes by the players. One of the reasons we were able to get so many layups in the second half was player initiated adjustments on the fly. Read & react.
 
citay said:
As many of you on this board can tell, I've been a fan of Griz basketball for years. Way before football became the dominant sport, way before many of you made your appearance on this earth.

And so the loss last night, such a humiliating, deflating performance against our main basketball rival going back decades, the despised Weber State, should have been cause for crushing sadness, an emotional eclipse of the sun, the beginning of the apocalypse!

But guess what? I could care less. I have simply lost any emotional connection to this team.

And so this morning, I have spent a lot of time wondering why.

It started with the absence of Money Williams. Okay, he's hurt, unable to play. That's not the issue.

Mine was, nobody told me he wouldn't play. This has been a question on the minds of Griz fans since he got hurt: Would he play against Weber? But nobody on this coaching staff cared enough to tell its fan base he wouldn't play. I tried to watch the game on my laptop, not the best clarity of image, but when I scanned the bench, I did not see him there.

If I missed the announcement, my bad. But no mention of it on this board, or on the lengthy pre-game article on the Griz app. Another small gesture to indicate this coaching staff has zero connection to its fan base. And while I don't live in Missoula, it's clear from the comments on this board that the administration's attitude toward the fans and the students at home games has not been beneficial to the program.

And remember, of the three elements of any sports program--the Administration (including the coaches), the Talent (the players) and the Fans (ah, us!) the Fans are the most important, because with us, without our support and our money, the other two elements become the Cross Country program.

But there's more.

For football fans--and I am one too!--there is a strong connection to the players. While I am no fan of Bobby Hauck's mumbling press conferences, I am of the kids who also show up--A.J. Forbes, Braxton Hill, Junior Bergen. The championship run has amplified their presence, and while I confess I don't live in the Missoula media market, I don't know the last time I've seen an interview with a Griz basketball player.

Then there's the tradition. It's become chapter and verse of memorable games that are part of Griz lore: The championship win at Marshall; the App State game; the stunning comeback against South Dakota State; and now the win in OT against North Dakota State. Basketball? The greatest game was a loss against UCLA before most on this board were born, followed by a first-round victory over Nevada under Kyrstkowiack. Any others? Not off the top of my head.

Then there's the Montana element. The football program prides itself on its Montana players, and has established a tradition around the number "37." But basketball? It's just chapter and verse of great Montana players who've left the state completely, going all the way back to Wayne Estes and Mike Lewis, continuing with each of the three Tinkle kids, and most recently, Rollie Worster, now a starter for Utah. I'm not a huge homer but I have to confess, it does make a difference over time when there is not a single Montana kid in the eight-man rotation.

So there you have it. I don't express this sentiment out of anger, more of sadness. Because my l-o-n-g emotional connection to the great tradition that once was the Montana basketball program is drying up faster than the Great Salt Lake.

My 12th grade English teacher made the class read the Wayne Estes book...back in the late 90s in Ogden.

Wayne Estes: A Hero's Legacy
 
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