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Sac State gearing up for FBS push...

Griz Addict said:
If you'd pick Florida over Northern California, you clearly have never been to either. Unless you want to be the next "Florida man"
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My sole considerations were recruiting and time zone. Living there requires more alcohol than I can tolerate.

Note: never been to Florida, but I have been to Georgia. My daughter suffered a July week in Orlando.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
I can tell you a big factor...student fees.

In 2023 UM had $1.05 million from student fees for athletics. Kennesaw had $15.74.

In 2023 Sac St had $29.19 million in institution/government support while UM had $7.14.

The total of all 3 combining student fees & institution/government support:

UM - $8.18 million
Kennesaw - $22.14 million
Sac St - $38.73 million
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Well the solution is simple. UM just needs to soak the students for an additional $30 million in annual student fees. Problem solved. Next question?
 
Is just don’t understand how folks can’t wrap their heads around the economics of the situation. Wyoming is probably a better comparison due to its proximity and the population of the state. TV markets as well. They budgeted approximately 6.5 million form student fees in 2024. (The latest I could find available). One state school vs. Montana having two. The state of Montana is growing. I am all for moving up if the next level institutes a playoff system. Just cannot figure out where the money comes from. Especially in a state where the median income makes jt tough for many in state students to attend U of M or MSU. Doesn’t seem right to raise their fees to fund athletics. That’s a controversial topic. I don’t think it is fair when I see a lot of hard working families trying to get their kids through school and going into a great deal of debt to do it.
 
Copper Griz said:
Is just don’t understand how folks can’t wrap their heads around the economics of the situation. Wyoming is probably a better comparison due to its proximity and the population of the state. TV markets as well. They budgeted approximately 6.5 million form student fees in 2024. (The latest I could find available). One state school vs. Montana having two. The state of Montana is growing. I am all for moving up if the next level institutes a playoff system. Just cannot figure out where the money comes from. Especially in a state where the median income makes jt tough for many in state students to attend U of M or MSU. Doesn’t seem right to raise their fees to fund athletics. That’s a controversial topic. I don’t think it is fair when I see a lot of hard working families trying to get their kids through school and going into a great deal of debt to do it.
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People don’t like it, but it mirrors everything out west. Cost of living is higher and so is the athletics expenditures due to all the long distance travel. We already spend at a level that would compete in the MAC or the CUSA. The problem is we have to fly everywhere except Bozeman and EWU and the Idahos. The expenditure of moving up is mainly additional sports and travel, but we already travel to those areas in our conference so I don’t think that is as big of a jump as people think.

I do disagree with other posters saying we need to spend an extra $25 million a year to be competitive in the mountain west. I think we need to spend about an extra $10 million a year as a starting point to be considered for the new mountain west now that your Boise and San Diego States moved out. We already have a revenue closer to $30 million and make a profit with expenditures much lower.

I do think if you raise student fees to $250 a year you cover a quarter of the difference (~ 2.5 million). Would that have an effect on enrollment? Probably. MSU would have to do the same, so maybe not as bad as we think. We would have to take an out of conference body bag away game against an FBS power 4 school every year which would net us over a million a year(payout is higher than an fcs school because it counts as an FBS win) So you’re up to 3.5 million. Seems like the athletic department has found a money generator in a stadium concert series which adds another good portion. Your payout from the conference for march madness goes up and so does the TV deal. I think profits come back for basketball if we can bring in better teams and a better product. If you cover $5-7.5 million of the $10 million, I think the state would be inclined to kick in a little after seeing the push they made just to get college game day here. It’s the highest level sporting exposure we get year in and year out for our state.

At this point it all seems like a moot point because we aren’t already FBS which is what the mountain west needs.
 
Wolf777 said:
People don’t like it, but it mirrors everything out west. Cost of living is higher and so is the athletics expenditures due to all the long distance travel. We already spend at a level that would compete in the MAC or the CUSA. The problem is we have to fly everywhere except Bozeman and EWU and the Idahos. The expenditure of moving up is mainly additional sports and travel, but we already travel to those areas in our conference so I don’t think that is as big of a jump as people think.

I do disagree with other posters saying we need to spend an extra $25 million a year to be competitive in the mountain west. I think we need to spend about an extra $10 million a year as a starting point to be considered for the new mountain west now that your Boise and San Diego States moved out. We already have a revenue closer to $30 million and make a profit with expenditures much lower.

I do think if you raise student fees to $250 a year you cover a quarter of the difference (~ 2.5 million). Would that have an effect on enrollment? Probably. MSU would have to do the same, so maybe not as bad as we think. We would have to take an out of conference body bag away game against an FBS power 4 school every year which would net us over a million a year(payout is higher than an fcs school because it counts as an FBS win) So you’re up to 3.5 million. Seems like the athletic department has found a money generator in a stadium concert series which adds another good portion. Your payout from the conference for march madness goes up and so does the TV deal. I think profits come back for basketball if we can bring in better teams and a better product. If you cover $5-7.5 million of the $10 million, I think the state would be inclined to kick in a little after seeing the push they made just to get college game day here. It’s the highest level sporting exposure we get year in and year out for our state.

At this point it all seems like a moot point because we aren’t already FBS which is what the mountain west needs.
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Good post. Darn good analysis. The only place I would maybe differ is travel. The extra scholarships would add more cost. Not exorbitant and probably not enough to tilt the equation into the negative. Will be interesting to watch how things evolve. I don’t have a lot of faith in the BOR, nor the legislature/governor.
 
Copper Griz said:
Good post. Darn good analysis. The only place I would maybe differ is travel. The extra scholarships would add more cost. Not exorbitant and probably not enough to tilt the equation into the negative. Will be interesting to watch how things evolve. I don’t have a lot of faith in the BOR, nor the legislature/governor.
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Good catch. I had it in there but reworded the section and Forgot to add it back in. Extra sports and extra scholarships are definitely part of it, but inherent with a move up to the next level. I just don’t see why people think we need to spend $50 million a year to compete with Nevada, New Mexico, Wyoming, or San Jose State.

I also had a link in the original post to some of the fees that students pay around the nation.

www.nbcnews.com

College students may pay thousands in athletic fees and not know it

NBC News found that college students are paying a rising cost, sometimes thousands of dollars, to support athletic programs — fees that don't always appear on their tuition bills.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
Wolf777 said:
Good catch. I had it in there but reworded the section and Forgot to add it back in. Extra sports and extra scholarships are definitely part of it, but inherent with a move up to the next level. I just don’t see why people think we need to spend $50 million a year to compete with Nevada, New Mexico, Wyoming, or San Jose State.

I also had a link in the original post to some of the fees that students pay around the nation.

www.nbcnews.com

College students may pay thousands in athletic fees and not know it

NBC News found that college students are paying a rising cost, sometimes thousands of dollars, to support athletic programs — fees that don't always appear on their tuition bills.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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I, personally agree with you. School costs need to be transparnent to parents that pay the bill.
 
Wolf777 said:
People don’t like it, but it mirrors everything out west. Cost of living is higher and so is the athletics expenditures due to all the long distance travel. We already spend at a level that would compete in the MAC or the CUSA. The problem is we have to fly everywhere except Bozeman and EWU and the Idahos. The expenditure of moving up is mainly additional sports and travel, but we already travel to those areas in our conference so I don’t think that is as big of a jump as people think.

I do disagree with other posters saying we need to spend an extra $25 million a year to be competitive in the mountain west. I think we need to spend about an extra $10 million a year as a starting point to be considered for the new mountain west now that your Boise and San Diego States moved out. We already have a revenue closer to $30 million and make a profit with expenditures much lower.

I do think if you raise student fees to $250 a year you cover a quarter of the difference (~ 2.5 million). Would that have an effect on enrollment? Probably. MSU would have to do the same, so maybe not as bad as we think. We would have to take an out of conference body bag away game against an FBS power 4 school every year which would net us over a million a year(payout is higher than an fcs school because it counts as an FBS win) So you’re up to 3.5 million. Seems like the athletic department has found a money generator in a stadium concert series which adds another good portion. Your payout from the conference for march madness goes up and so does the TV deal. I think profits come back for basketball if we can bring in better teams and a better product. If you cover $5-7.5 million of the $10 million, I think the state would be inclined to kick in a little after seeing the push they made just to get college game day here. It’s the highest level sporting exposure we get year in and year out for our state.

At this point it all seems like a moot point because we aren’t already FBS which is what the mountain west needs.
Click to expand...
How do you think UM could be competitive with a budget $15 million less than the average MW budget? And, obviously, top programs in the MW have enough bigger budgets than $50 million.

From June 2023 article:

"

Here’s a look at how the conference breaks down. Note: The Air Force Academy does not disclose its annual financial report.

1. San Diego State Revenue: $65,897,302 Expenses: $67,245,917 Net: - $1,348,615

2. UNLV Revenue: $64,243,413 Expenses: $62,644,050 Net: + $1,599,363

3. Colorado State Revenue: $61,263,230 Expenses: $61,220,502 Net: + $42,728

4. Fresno State Revenue: $54,124,579 Expenses: $46,515,828 Net: + $7,608,751

5. Boise State Revenue: $50,569,147 Expenses: $50,328,947 Net: + $240,200

6. Wyoming Revenue: $50,255,883 Expenses: $47,146,996 Net: + $3,108,887

7. Hawaii Revenue: $49,422,827 Expenses: $48,029,141 Net: + $1,393,686

8. Nevada Revenue: $47,946,637 Expenses: $45,225,707 Net: + $2,720,930

9. New Mexico Revenue: $44,881,065 Expenses: $44,865,758 Net: + $15,307

10. Utah State Revenue: $43,157,838 Expenses: $42,824,185 Net: + $333,653

11. San Jose State Revenue: $39,030,222 Expenses: $39,030,022 Net: + $200

https://www.idahostatesman.com/spor...ty/boise-state-football/article275116151.html
 
mthoopsfan said:
How do you think UM could be competitive with a budget $15 million less than the average MW budget? And, obviously, top programs in the MW have enough bigger budgets than $50 million.

From June 2023 article:

"

Here’s a look at how the conference breaks down. Note: The Air Force Academy does not disclose its annual financial report.

1. San Diego State Revenue: $65,897,302 Expenses: $67,245,917 Net: - $1,348,615

2. UNLV Revenue: $64,243,413 Expenses: $62,644,050 Net: + $1,599,363

3. Colorado State Revenue: $61,263,230 Expenses: $61,220,502 Net: + $42,728

4. Fresno State Revenue: $54,124,579 Expenses: $46,515,828 Net: + $7,608,751

5. Boise State Revenue: $50,569,147 Expenses: $50,328,947 Net: + $240,200

6. Wyoming Revenue: $50,255,883 Expenses: $47,146,996 Net: + $3,108,887

7. Hawaii Revenue: $49,422,827 Expenses: $48,029,141 Net: + $1,393,686

8. Nevada Revenue: $47,946,637 Expenses: $45,225,707 Net: + $2,720,930

9. New Mexico Revenue: $44,881,065 Expenses: $44,865,758 Net: + $15,307

10. Utah State Revenue: $43,157,838 Expenses: $42,824,185 Net: + $333,653

11. San Jose State Revenue: $39,030,222 Expenses: $39,030,022 Net: + $200

https://www.idahostatesman.com/spor...ty/boise-state-football/article275116151.html
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Probably because the 4 out of the top 5 in your list are gone which makes the average more like $45 million. Yes we wouldn’t compete with UNLV in spending but that’s the biggest outlier left. Maybe Air Force is around there. If we spend $38-40 million that’s pretty damn close to a bulk of the conference and a good starting point. It covers the gap and is only $10 million over our current revenue.

You’ve consistently asked how we could afford it in every thread. I pointed out several ways in which we aren’t crazy far away and could cover the gap through different means and what would come from that particular conference. I think “the FCS playoffs are fun” too, but they won’t be if it’s us and the cats, Mercer, Lindenwood, and any other D2 that will still be around with us as we sit on our hands?

You don’t think we would find ways to continue to improve from there?
 
can I be the crazy voice in the wilderness and say you don't want FBS? It's just an ever spiraling cycle of greed and money. The top of FBS is now just NFL lite. Which is what I and many others (*spit* Saban) warned of (out of control NIL, unrestricted transfers, tv contracts that reduce play and increase commercials). The money, greed and chasing of $$ and clout has turned it to shit.

I continually brag to acquaintances, neighbors, friends how awesome the experience is in Missoula. How the game and the atmosphere around it most resembles the glory days LSU, SEC and other fans so fondly recall. Some of it not long ago.

Please trust me. Don't chase that carrot. It's nice and orange and plump and oh so nice looking.

But it's rotten on the inside.
 
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