Run game scheme is not working, other poor coaching

[grizatwork]

I'd like to see a chart from Wahlberg....
Percentage of passes that use the middle of the field...
You have one hour...

Looks like he missed the deadline. I will miss you Wahlberg.

 

[PlayerRep]

Good analysis.
I have a quick question - If it's first and ten are we going to throw the ball or run it?

It seems like 9/10 times the answer is the same. Not sure if any blocking scheme will help if they know what we are going to do.

UM ran 21 times on first down and passed 8 times. Note that the first down plays include first and goals, and first down near UM's own goal line.

So that puts it at 72.4% of the time for that game. Each game is different and as PR noted those do include first and goals and first down deep in our own territory. I would be interested to see what our 1st down percentage of runs are for the whole season. It certainly looks like a tendency and makes it easier to game plan for. I would think that 60 percent or so runs on first down would make the defense a little more honest. I tend to believe that we make it too easy for opposing defenses on first down. If we could get to a 2nd and 6 or less more consistently, you would probably see defenses paly a little more honestly on 1st down. Just my opinion.

10/17
19/7
20/10
9/10
18/7

run/pass, from 1st to 5th game.

 

[garizzalies]

The play-calling seemed to change when JJ went out, perhaps to protect S-H (maybe I just imagined this).

I don't think it was protection as much as the fact that the two qbs are basically opposites in terms of timing, delivery, mechanics, strengths, trajectory, mobility, etc. pretty much everything

Here's what I didn't understand: I certainly get the complaining about power running with a young OL and scattybacks--I've even made similar comments--but once JJ went down, the only thing that looked good was power-I to the right side with Jamal and Canada. Very similar to the SD game. Why not stick with it, just like vs SD? It's like they have no fall-back/identity

 

[bigforkgriz]

The play-calling seemed to change when JJ went out, perhaps to protect S-H (maybe I just imagined this).

I don't think it was protection as much as the fact that the two qbs are basically opposites in terms of timing, delivery, mechanics, strengths, trajectory, mobility, etc. pretty much everything

Here's what I didn't understand: I certainly get the complaining about power running with a young OL and scattybacks--I've even made similar comments--but once JJ went down, the only thing that looked good was power-I to the right side with Jamal and Canada. Very similar to the SD game. Why not stick with it, just like vs SD? It's like they have no fall-back/identity

They ran Canada on that play twice for his two biggest gains and then pulled him for Van who proceeded to be tackled for loss when he got to the line and jitter bugged instead of going straight forward as he did on the touchdown plunge. He was 11 rushes for 0 yards. Canada's run to avoid the safety should have been a pass and his last run wide for the loss before the game winner should have been straight ahead to get closer for the field goal. Play calling?

 

[stubbins]

I'd like to see a chart from Wahlberg....
Percentage of passes that use the middle of the field...
You have one hour...

Looks like he missed the deadline. I will miss you Wahlberg.

He wont disappear....this time.
I'm just going to have a "chat" and make him understand how important my deadlines are...

 

[PlayerRep]

Canada and Nguyen are not "scatty" backs. Canada runs fairly well inside. Van runs much better with a hole, but even he is listed at 195 pounds.

 

[GrizzleMoose]

What happened to play-action? I don't recall us using play action very much, if at all, this year. I could be wrong but just can't think of any plays that we used play-action in recent games. Does anyone have a count or recollection? When trying to establish the run and the d is stacking the box and begging us to run, play-action is a must. Offense 101, pretty basic stuff.

 

[tnt]

What happened to play-action? I don't recall us using play action very much, if at all, this year. I could be wrong but just can't think of any plays that we used play-action in recent games. Does anyone have a count or recollection? When trying to establish the run and the d is stacking the box and begging us to run, play-action is a must. Offense 101, pretty basic stuff.

You do understand the EVERY stretch has the potential for play action, whether or not its an inside or outside zone, depending on what the QB calls right? The QB read is what makes this offense work. The guys screaming they won't let JJ play seem not to understand JJ is the one deciding at the moment. I'm guessing the coaches trust his experience in the matter. It works really well for Peyton Manning. JJ is no Peyton manning an most certainly has "favorites" But sadly In addition to the defensive reads, he has to decide how his virtually non existent line is going to react and what lane may or may not be open because of those weakneses.

The most effective use of this offense is when JJ goes to Play action off a counter motion. It would be amazing this year IF we had the TEs we did last. There is some progress being made although JJ didn't play much both he and S-H did a much better job of freezing the second level defenders. I suspect S-H's having a different set of "favorites" was part of that difference.

 

[cclarkblues]

If we had to pony up a dime every time our RBs got stacked up at the line of scrimmage, someone would have to go back and get a shitload of dimes.

 

[kemajic]

What happened to play-action? I don't recall us using play action very much, if at all, this year. I could be wrong but just can't think of any plays that we used play-action in recent games. Does anyone have a count or recollection? When trying to establish the run and the d is stacking the box and begging us to run, play-action is a must. Offense 101, pretty basic stuff.

I saw some on third and long when the D will never bite.

 

[JayLarson]

Glad to see that most of you on here want to have a discussion about this, it is making me enjoy Egriz again. I did notice almost every running play going to the left, and then they had 2 runs by Canada 2 the right for big gains in the second half. Then they seemed to run to the left every time. Never does this team run a play straight up the middle give, all the defenses run blitz and also send D ends wide to contain JJ from a bootleg, which should make for some nice running room up the middle. We will see what happens to this offense when the coaches see the upcoming teams that they know will put up points on this defense, they may decide to open things up more.

 

[fanofzoo]

Glad to see that most of you on here want to have a discussion about this, it is making me enjoy Egriz again. I did notice almost every running play going to the left, and then they had 2 runs by Canada 2 the right for big gains in the second half. Then they seemed to run to the left every time. Never does this team run a play straight up the middle give, all the defenses run blitz and also send D ends wide to contain JJ from a bootleg, which should make for some nice running room up the middle. We will see what happens to this offense when the coaches see the upcoming teams that they know will put up points on this defense, they may decide to open things up more.

I don't think that they will change the offense.

It's half way through the season and you haven't seen any changes yet, except for UNC, (first quarter) which worked out great.

Unfortunately it is the highway or my way attitude.

Maybe next year.

 

[Umista]

Mable:

I understand you told Mick Delaney you love to see the pass. What was his response? Ans. Well it was like he got mad then realized I was a dumb female fan and stated "the pass" is OK but first we must establish "the run"..... Mable what did you say then? Well I stated it seemed to me we gained more yards via the pass than we did the run. Well..... ah shit said Mable he just changed the subject and asked how my husband was.

Wow, Mable he asked about me? Yes, but he added he would look into the "pass stuff" so I think he was trying to satisfy me but I sure hope he attempts that "pass stuff" .......Like when Don Read was coaching......

Good going Mable.

 

[monte is a character]

Very glad to see the Griz escape with a win in a game that they should have lost today. I am getting sick and tired of reading on here how terrible our offensive line is in run blocking. LOOK AT THE RUN BLOCKING SCHEME WE ARE RUNNING!! This is directly because of Scott Gregg wanting to run the type of blocking that the Denver Broncos used to do, which is not going to work at the college level, or at least with our line, that is why you see guys getting into the backfield so quickly on those stretch plays. Look at the start of the plays with the running back running to the left with all the blocking going to the left, this means that every lineman has to do a reach block on a guy that already has a step on them. This is not a power running scheme, I don't think we ever pull, and rarely just block head up. The picking up the blitz is another issue, but the problems in the run game are in the scheme.

The clock and game management at the end of the game were horrible. I will not get into the details of the playcalling, but you should always try and get the ball closer and not be content to just let the clock run down when you have a couple more downs and timeouts to try and get closer.

Delaney wants to establish the run and play good defense which he always preaches, but when the run is not working, you have to go elsewhere. I know all of us on Egriz saying this are beating a dead horse.

This defense is not as good as many of you are making it out to be, at least against the pass. But this is related to scheme too. Today the Griz were having alot of luck with bringing an extra guy and really getting to the QB, but then when the Griz need to stop them, they stop blitzing. Our 2 d ends always rush up the field, and the DTs stay in the middle, which creates 2 huge lanes for the QB to step up in and find a receiver or run, sending an extra guy or 2 was forcing the QB into many mistakes. I would love to see the stats on UND passing against 5 man rush vs the 4 man rush I bet the difference is astounding.

Look at the Grizzlies schedule so far this season, not a single team that is a passing team at all, and when these teams decide to pass they can move the ball almost at will. I have major concerns of when we play a heavy passing team, but hopefully I am proven wrong. Wagenmann continues to make big plays, and without Van Ackeren making a strip from his back today the Griz lose that game.

Hopefully JJ is ok and can come back soon, thank god Shay was not locked on to just one receiver like he always does when he flung that deep ball to Jamal. He made a huge play that won the game for the Griz and we will remember that play for a long time.

It was painful, and ugly, but that is the new norm for the Griz, at least we did not lose the game today, because we could have, and actually should have. Heal up during the bye week boys, and lets go get that Big Sky title.

Griz would have won 29-0 today if JJ had not gotten hurt.

Wondering where the logic is in this playarape. JJ was in for a lot of that game. I actually saw more offensive production with the hyphenator under center. Once again, you show that you really don't know dick about football, while at the same time sounding like a complete douche griz homer, who really thinks they could have beaten UND 29 to 0 with JJ. :roll: This is excessive idiocy. Even for you.

Nope. JJ was in for 2 drives, before getting hurt on the 2d play of the next drive. Played 1 drive after that. So, he played a total of 3 of the 12 UM drives, plus 2 plays--and, again, was hurting and limping during the 3d drive. While in the game, his completed passes averaged almost 17 yards per catch. S-H's average per catch was about was 10.7 yards, including the 46 yarder (so only just over 7 yards per completion until the last very nice pass). The play-calling seemed to change when JJ went out, perhaps to protect S-H (maybe I just imagined this). Doubt that JJ would have thrown the pick. Offense would probably have done better with JJ, scored some more points, and protected the defense better--all in my view, of course.

Translation: When PR uses the word "nope".

"You are a no-nothing who obviously never played the game, while I, on the other hand, are smarter than all other Griz fans and frequently have to lower myself to school other posters" Oh, and by the way, I played college football for an Ivy League team. If you don't understand why this makes me superior, you are a bad fan"

 

[Zootown Rox]

Completely agree with JayLarson's point about the running game. When the Griz finally started running right at UND in the second half, not stringing it out like they had been, they were making yards on the ground. UND was blitzing a LB every play which was blowing up our 'string it out' run plays, and our 'take forever and go deep' pass plays. The plays that were working were north and south run plays and quick/short pass plays or slipping the running back on a wheel route.

We shouldn't have had to wait almost two quarters of bad offense and our quarterback getting pummeled to adjust to what UND was doing. They've been doing it all year, the UM coaches should not have been surprised to see them bring a linebacker (or two) every play, they should have planned for that. But they didn't and didn't adjust until very late and as a result our QB got knocked out and UND got a ridiculous amount of tackles for a loss. :roll:

 

[JayLarson]

I am watching Missouri vs Georgia, Missouri has a defense that blitzes alot, Georgia is using alot of quick out passes to the tight end, and all blocking is straight up, and they took it down the field and scored, keep the game simple!

 

[PlayerRep]

Griz would have won 29-0 today if JJ had not gotten hurt.

Wondering where the logic is in this playarape. JJ was in for a lot of that game. I actually saw more offensive production with the hyphenator under center. Once again, you show that you really don't know dick about football, while at the same time sounding like a complete douche griz homer, who really thinks they could have beaten UND 29 to 0 with JJ. :roll: This is excessive idiocy. Even for you.

Nope. JJ was in for 2 drives, before getting hurt on the 2d play of the next drive. Played 1 drive after that. So, he played a total of 3 of the 12 UM drives, plus 2 plays--and, again, was hurting and limping during the 3d drive. While in the game, his completed passes averaged almost 17 yards per catch. S-H's average per catch was about was 10.7 yards, including the 46 yarder (so only just over 7 yards per completion until the last very nice pass). The play-calling seemed to change when JJ went out, perhaps to protect S-H (maybe I just imagined this). Doubt that JJ would have thrown the pick. Offense would probably have done better with JJ, scored some more points, and protected the defense better--all in my view, of course.

Translation: When PR uses the word "nope".

"You are a no-nothing who obviously never played the game, while I, on the other hand, are smarter than all other Griz fans and frequently have to lower myself to school other posters" Oh, and by the way, I played college football for an Ivy League team. If you don't understand why this makes me superior, you are a bad fan"

Nope.