Run game scheme is not working, other poor coaching

[spsyk]

Very glad to see the Griz escape with a win in a game that they should have lost today. I am getting sick and tired of reading on here how terrible our offensive line is in run blocking. LOOK AT THE RUN BLOCKING SCHEME WE ARE RUNNING!! This is directly because of Scott Gregg wanting to run the type of blocking that the Denver Broncos used to do, which is not going to work at the college level, or at least with our line, that is why you see guys getting into the backfield so quickly on those stretch plays. Look at the start of the plays with the running back running to the left with all the blocking going to the left, this means that every lineman has to do a reach block on a guy that already has a step on them. This is not a power running scheme, I don't think we ever pull, and rarely just block head up. The picking up the blitz is another issue, but the problems in the run game are in the scheme.

The clock and game management at the end of the game were horrible. I will not get into the details of the playcalling, but you should always try and get the ball closer and not be content to just let the clock run down when you have a couple more downs and timeouts to try and get closer.

Delaney wants to establish the run and play good defense which he always preaches, but when the run is not working, you have to go elsewhere. I know all of us on Egriz saying this are beating a dead horse.

This defense is not as good as many of you are making it out to be, at least against the pass. But this is related to scheme too. Today the Griz were having alot of luck with bringing an extra guy and really getting to the QB, but then when the Griz need to stop them, they stop blitzing. Our 2 d ends always rush up the field, and the DTs stay in the middle, which creates 2 huge lanes for the QB to step up in and find a receiver or run, sending an extra guy or 2 was forcing the QB into many mistakes. I would love to see the stats on UND passing against 5 man rush vs the 4 man rush I bet the difference is astounding.

Look at the Grizzlies schedule so far this season, not a single team that is a passing team at all, and when these teams decide to pass they can move the ball almost at will. I have major concerns of when we play a heavy passing team, but hopefully I am proven wrong. Wagenmann continues to make big plays, and without Van Ackeren making a strip from his back today the Griz lose that game.

Hopefully JJ is ok and can come back soon, thank god Shay was not locked on to just one receiver like he always does when he flung that deep ball to Jamal. He made a huge play that won the game for the Griz and we will remember that play for a long time.

It was painful, and ugly, but that is the new norm for the Griz, at least we did not lose the game today, because we could have, and actually should have. Heal up during the bye week boys, and lets go get that Big Sky title.

Griz would have won 29-0 today if JJ had not gotten hurt.

And my girlfriends tits wouldn't sag if she wasn't 70.

 

[1Griz_Fan]

I agree with Jay on the game and clock management. So the Griz have had well known kicking issues for a long time now, including two missed kicks against ND, yet the coaches act like they are comfortable kicking further out than they should have had to. I realize the run game couldn't gain much but what if the Griz would have had to go to overtime instead. It just seems a strategy of moving the ball closer to kick a field goal that for us has been any thing other than a sure thing would have been better.

 

[IroneagleXP]

Very glad to see the Griz escape with a win in a game that they should have lost today. I am getting sick and tired of reading on here how terrible our offensive line is in run blocking. LOOK AT THE RUN BLOCKING SCHEME WE ARE RUNNING!! This is directly because of Scott Gregg wanting to run the type of blocking that the Denver Broncos used to do, which is not going to work at the college level, or at least with our line, that is why you see guys getting into the backfield so quickly on those stretch plays. Look at the start of the plays with the running back running to the left with all the blocking going to the left, this means that every lineman has to do a reach block on a guy that already has a step on them. This is not a power running scheme, I don't think we ever pull, and rarely just block head up. The picking up the blitz is another issue, but the problems in the run game are in the scheme.

The clock and game management at the end of the game were horrible. I will not get into the details of the playcalling, but you should always try and get the ball closer and not be content to just let the clock run down when you have a couple more downs and timeouts to try and get closer.

Delaney wants to establish the run and play good defense which he always preaches, but when the run is not working, you have to go elsewhere. I know all of us on Egriz saying this are beating a dead horse.

This defense is not as good as many of you are making it out to be, at least against the pass. But this is related to scheme too. Today the Griz were having alot of luck with bringing an extra guy and really getting to the QB, but then when the Griz need to stop them, they stop blitzing. Our 2 d ends always rush up the field, and the DTs stay in the middle, which creates 2 huge lanes for the QB to step up in and find a receiver or run, sending an extra guy or 2 was forcing the QB into many mistakes. I would love to see the stats on UND passing against 5 man rush vs the 4 man rush I bet the difference is astounding.

Look at the Grizzlies schedule so far this season, not a single team that is a passing team at all, and when these teams decide to pass they can move the ball almost at will. I have major concerns of when we play a heavy passing team, but hopefully I am proven wrong. Wagenmann continues to make big plays, and without Van Ackeren making a strip from his back today the Griz lose that game.

Hopefully JJ is ok and can come back soon, thank god Shay was not locked on to just one receiver like he always does when he flung that deep ball to Jamal. He made a huge play that won the game for the Griz and we will remember that play for a long time.

It was painful, and ugly, but that is the new norm for the Griz, at least we did not lose the game today, because we could have, and actually should have. Heal up during the bye week boys, and lets go get that Big Sky title.

Griz would have won 29-0 today if JJ had not gotten hurt.

Wondering where the logic is in this playarape. JJ was in for a lot of that game. I actually saw more offensive production with the hyphenator under center. Once again, you show that you really don't know dick about football, while at the same time sounding like a complete douche griz homer, who really thinks they could have beaten UND 29 to 0 with JJ. :roll: This is excessive idiocy. Even for you.

 

[zirge]

Very glad to see the Griz escape with a win in a game that they should have lost today. I am getting sick and tired of reading on here how terrible our offensive line is in run blocking. LOOK AT THE RUN BLOCKING SCHEME WE ARE RUNNING!! This is directly because of Scott Gregg wanting to run the type of blocking that the Denver Broncos used to do, which is not going to work at the college level, or at least with our line, that is why you see guys getting into the backfield so quickly on those stretch plays. Look at the start of the plays with the running back running to the left with all the blocking going to the left, this means that every lineman has to do a reach block on a guy that already has a step on them. This is not a power running scheme, I don't think we ever pull, and rarely just block head up. The picking up the blitz is another issue, but the problems in the run game are in the scheme.

The clock and game management at the end of the game were horrible. I will not get into the details of the playcalling, but you should always try and get the ball closer and not be content to just let the clock run down when you have a couple more downs and timeouts to try and get closer.

Delaney wants to establish the run and play good defense which he always preaches, but when the run is not working, you have to go elsewhere. I know all of us on Egriz saying this are beating a dead horse.

This defense is not as good as many of you are making it out to be, at least against the pass. But this is related to scheme too. Today the Griz were having alot of luck with bringing an extra guy and really getting to the QB, but then when the Griz need to stop them, they stop blitzing. Our 2 d ends always rush up the field, and the DTs stay in the middle, which creates 2 huge lanes for the QB to step up in and find a receiver or run, sending an extra guy or 2 was forcing the QB into many mistakes. I would love to see the stats on UND passing against 5 man rush vs the 4 man rush I bet the difference is astounding.

Look at the Grizzlies schedule so far this season, not a single team that is a passing team at all, and when these teams decide to pass they can move the ball almost at will. I have major concerns of when we play a heavy passing team, but hopefully I am proven wrong. Wagenmann continues to make big plays, and without Van Ackeren making a strip from his back today the Griz lose that game.

Hopefully JJ is ok and can come back soon, thank god Shay was not locked on to just one receiver like he always does when he flung that deep ball to Jamal. He made a huge play that won the game for the Griz and we will remember that play for a long time.

It was painful, and ugly, but that is the new norm for the Griz, at least we did not lose the game today, because we could have, and actually should have. Heal up during the bye week boys, and lets go get that Big Sky title.

Jay you make some good and valid points. It is too bad that you cannot get a decent enough dialog going with other egrizers. Taking an interest in the Griz does not always come with JUST praise, their play and coaching is not perfect so it is open to discussion.
Thanks for your input. I did not see the game but i have seen what you are talking about and have the same concern moving forward.

 

[PlayerRep]

Very glad to see the Griz escape with a win in a game that they should have lost today. I am getting sick and tired of reading on here how terrible our offensive line is in run blocking. LOOK AT THE RUN BLOCKING SCHEME WE ARE RUNNING!! This is directly because of Scott Gregg wanting to run the type of blocking that the Denver Broncos used to do, which is not going to work at the college level, or at least with our line, that is why you see guys getting into the backfield so quickly on those stretch plays. Look at the start of the plays with the running back running to the left with all the blocking going to the left, this means that every lineman has to do a reach block on a guy that already has a step on them. This is not a power running scheme, I don't think we ever pull, and rarely just block head up. The picking up the blitz is another issue, but the problems in the run game are in the scheme.

The clock and game management at the end of the game were horrible. I will not get into the details of the playcalling, but you should always try and get the ball closer and not be content to just let the clock run down when you have a couple more downs and timeouts to try and get closer.

Delaney wants to establish the run and play good defense which he always preaches, but when the run is not working, you have to go elsewhere. I know all of us on Egriz saying this are beating a dead horse.

This defense is not as good as many of you are making it out to be, at least against the pass. But this is related to scheme too. Today the Griz were having alot of luck with bringing an extra guy and really getting to the QB, but then when the Griz need to stop them, they stop blitzing. Our 2 d ends always rush up the field, and the DTs stay in the middle, which creates 2 huge lanes for the QB to step up in and find a receiver or run, sending an extra guy or 2 was forcing the QB into many mistakes. I would love to see the stats on UND passing against 5 man rush vs the 4 man rush I bet the difference is astounding.

Look at the Grizzlies schedule so far this season, not a single team that is a passing team at all, and when these teams decide to pass they can move the ball almost at will. I have major concerns of when we play a heavy passing team, but hopefully I am proven wrong. Wagenmann continues to make big plays, and without Van Ackeren making a strip from his back today the Griz lose that game.

Hopefully JJ is ok and can come back soon, thank god Shay was not locked on to just one receiver like he always does when he flung that deep ball to Jamal. He made a huge play that won the game for the Griz and we will remember that play for a long time.

It was painful, and ugly, but that is the new norm for the Griz, at least we did not lose the game today, because we could have, and actually should have. Heal up during the bye week boys, and lets go get that Big Sky title.

Griz would have won 29-0 today if JJ had not gotten hurt.

Wondering where the logic is in this playarape. JJ was in for a lot of that game. I actually saw more offensive production with the hyphenator under center. Once again, you show that you really don't know dick about football, while at the same time sounding like a complete douche griz homer, who really thinks they could have beaten UND 29 to 0 with JJ. :roll: This is excessive idiocy. Even for you.

Nope. JJ was in for 2 drives, before getting hurt on the 2d play of the next drive. Played 1 drive after that. So, he played a total of 3 of the 12 UM drives, plus 2 plays--and, again, was hurting and limping during the 3d drive. While in the game, his completed passes averaged almost 17 yards per catch. S-H's average per catch was about was 10.7 yards, including the 46 yarder (so only just over 7 yards per completion until the last very nice pass). The play-calling seemed to change when JJ went out, perhaps to protect S-H (maybe I just imagined this). Doubt that JJ would have thrown the pick. Offense would probably have done better with JJ, scored some more points, and protected the defense better--all in my view, of course.

 

['68griz]

Why does Delaney continue to push a power rushing game with scatback RBs????

 

[kemajic]

Why does Delaney continue to push a power rushing game with scatback RBs????

He fears mistakes with aggressive offenses and plays to not lose. Lubick's playbook; you don't think he has his own do you?

 

['68griz]

Why does Delaney continue to push a power rushing game with scatback RBs????

He fears mistakes with aggressive offenses and plays to not lose. Lubick's playbook; you don't think he has his own do you?

IMO, playing to not lose is usually a losing proposition.

 

[IdaGriz01]

...
IMO, playing to not lose is usually a losing proposition.

Kinda like playing a "Prevent Defense" which -- way too often -- prevents you from winning.

 

[grizatwork]

We play a zone blocking scheme. This requires the offensive linemen to communicate well and know each other. It involves them moving together, reaching, double teaming and then one of the guys going to the next level. The running back is to go with the flow and then plant and go when he sees a crease. This usually comes with time and repetition. We have 5 new linemen this year and many young guys. North Dakota was packing the box and actually blew up some of those plays with run blitzes. That can cause a lot of plays for loss and it can blow up in your face if the back gets to the next level. It also requires the offense to make them pay with play action and bootleg on occasion. Many zone teams actually get better as the season goes on as the offensive linemen get to know each other and know when to double and when to release to the next level and they start moving more in sync. The running backs also get more comfortable on when to plant and run downhill. I don't know if that will happen this year, but the offensive line is not there yet. They had some real struggles with the North Dakota pressure up front.

 

[ranco]

Why does Delaney continue to push a power rushing game with scatback RBs????

That's the most problematic thing about our offense, which is not getting better. Our run game philosophy appears to be, "we are going to run it right down your throat, so try to stop it." Problem is, every team can and has stopped it. UND stopped it for negative yards a dozen times, yet we do the same thing. The better team won on Saturday, but we were damn lucky to do so. It's one thing to have a bad offense, its another to have an offense that will literally lose the game for you. We have injuries, but so does every team. If the OC(s) can't get imaginative, this will be another year when we fail to be a playoff team.

 

[zirge]

We play a zone blocking scheme. This requires the offensive linemen to communicate well and know each other. It involves them moving together, reaching, double teaming and then one of the guys going to the next level. The running back is to go with the flow and then plant and go when he sees a crease. This usually comes with time and repetition. We have 5 new linemen this year and many young guys. North Dakota was packing the box and actually blew up some of those plays with run blitzes. That can cause a lot of plays for loss and it can blow up in your face if the back gets to the next level. It also requires the offense to make them pay with play action and bootleg on occasion. Many zone teams actually get better as the season goes on as the offensive linemen get to know each other and know when to double and when to release to the next level and they start moving more in sync. The running backs also get more comfortable on when to plant and run downhill. I don't know if that will happen this year, but the offensive line is not there yet. They had some real struggles with the North Dakota pressure up front.

nice........but if they are loading the box shouldn't we have another scheme to make the adjustment?
i believe it is not making these adjustments soon enough that is frustrating.

 

[behappp]

Good analysis.
I have a quick question - If it's first and ten are we going to throw the ball or run it?

It seems like 9/10 times the answer is the same. Not sure if any blocking scheme will help if they know what we are going to do.

 

[grizatwork]

Very good points. One of the way to get the defense on it's heels a little bit is to actually go against your own tendencies. This requires being able to run and pass out of the same formation. My opinion is that we tend to be a little to predictable based on formations and personnel packages. That allows the defense to run downhill so to speak. One of the things that makes the pro set so effective in the pros is that they can run or pass from the same formation and are very good about audibling based on what the defense shows them. I honestly don't know enough about our offense to tell you if our quarterback can do it or is allowed to do it.

 

[mtgrizrule]

We play a zone blocking scheme. This requires the offensive linemen to communicate well and know each other. It involves them moving together, reaching, double teaming and then one of the guys going to the next level. The running back is to go with the flow and then plant and go when he sees a crease. This usually comes with time and repetition. We have 5 new linemen this year and many young guys. North Dakota was packing the box and actually blew up some of those plays with run blitzes. That can cause a lot of plays for loss and it can blow up in your face if the back gets to the next level. It also requires the offense to make them pay with play action and bootleg on occasion. Many zone teams actually get better as the season goes on as the offensive linemen get to know each other and know when to double and when to release to the next level and they start moving more in sync. The running backs also get more comfortable on when to plant and run downhill. I don't know if that will happen this year, but the offensive line is not there yet. They had some real struggles with the North Dakota pressure up front.

nice........but if they are loading the box shouldn't we have another scheme to make the adjustment?
i believe it is not making these adjustments soon enough that is frustrating.

What is this "adjustments" thing you speak of? :lol:

 

['68griz]

Why does Delaney continue to push a power rushing game with scatback RBs????

He fears mistakes with aggressive offenses and plays to not lose. Lubick's playbook; you don't think he has his own do you?

No, I do not. In fact, I don't think he's had an original idea in a couple decades.

 

[PlayerRep]

Good analysis.
I have a quick question - If it's first and ten are we going to throw the ball or run it?

It seems like 9/10 times the answer is the same. Not sure if any blocking scheme will help if they know what we are going to do.

UM ran 21 times on first down and passed 8 times. Note that the first down plays include first and goals, and first down near UM's own goal line.

 

[grizatwork]

Good analysis.
I have a quick question - If it's first and ten are we going to throw the ball or run it?

It seems like 9/10 times the answer is the same. Not sure if any blocking scheme will help if they know what we are going to do.

UM ran 21 times on first down and passed 8 times. Note that the first down plays include first and goals, and first down near UM's own goal line.

So that puts it at 72.4% of the time for that game. Each game is different and as PR noted those do include first and goals and first down deep in our own territory. I would be interested to see what our 1st down percentage of runs are for the whole season. It certainly looks like a tendency and makes it easier to game plan for. I would think that 60 percent or so runs on first down would make the defense a little more honest. I tend to believe that we make it too easy for opposing defenses on first down. If we could get to a 2nd and 6 or less more consistently, you would probably see defenses paly a little more honestly on 1st down. Just my opinion.

 

[granitegriz]

I agree Jay that the scheme is not working...need to go back to the play calling from the first half of the UNC game. Griz are not going to establish run on very many teams but that quick pass to the outside to Van and Jones with Wilson out there blocking is like a run play.

 

[stubbins]

I'd like to see a chart from Wahlberg....
Percentage of passes that use the middle of the field...
You have one hour...