Rob Ash Fired

[PlayerRep]

Doc3 has been a troll since he started posting. When he is challenged, like you have done recently and others including myself have done in the past, he is unable to respond, has nothing to support his views, starts spewing gibberish, and ramps up the name-calling. One of the things I've come to enjoy over my years of being on the boards, is that a good number of the Cat trolls are left sputtering and muttering to themselves, after posters like 75 and others have challenged them.

Question PR...and NO lying. You have this little statement saved and you just cut and copy it, don't you? :thumb:

Question Doc3 ... you know you're just a troll, right? You can be honest about this, right?

Tell me playrape, can you tell the difference between a troll and someone challenging the pure bullshit spewed by some people on this site? If I were a troll I would be stirring up controversy and talking sh!t just for the sake of it. I am not doing that, I am calling out a fellow poster. I believe that UMGriz75 is a certified whack job with extreme views. He both minimizes and exaggerates the topic at hand depending on how it serves his own opinion, regardless of the facts or realities of the situation. Anything bad at UM happens and he minimizes it to the n'th degree...if you need proof and have about 30 hours, review any of his long winded posts on the recent legal issues of van ackeren et al...or the JJ / Krakauer thread. On the other hand, MSU fires the head coach for letting the program slide over the past 3 years and MSU is the devil and their fans are delusional irrational fanatics (he does realize that he is a member of one of the most fanatical fan bases right?) that are literally crazy for believing they could have a winning program and be an annual power in fcs football. The arrogance is ASTOUNDING, and total bullshit.

A troll is someone like yourself, who comes to the board only on occasion and primarily to stir up trouble, by making statements with inflammatory language designed to irritate many of the posters. A sports troll is often from another school, including a rival school. In your case, you sometimes make multiple posts on a subject, but apparently aren't good or smart enough to defend your comments, and then you resort to name-calling and crap. You are also very juvenile.

75 is one of the top posters on egriz. In the case of JJ and KVA, he like some of the rest of us was dead-on accurate, both early on and later. Note that JJ was acquitted and not kicked out of school. Note that KVA plead to a misdemeanor and missed only 1 game. People like yourself including some Cat fans want so dearly to have things at UM to be worse than they are or turn out to be, and want the Missoulian's inaccurate and biased reporting to be the truth. And, when posters like 75 and others quickly figure out what is actually the truth and start posting the truth and where the matter is going and likely to end up, you get so desperate that you start saying your juvenile junk. You can say or think 75 and others are arrogant, but he is damn right almost all of the time, and he posts his views, and undercuts incorrect views of trolls, naysayers and posters like you, in a direct, intelligence, methodical and respectful manner. As the movie line goes, You Can't Stand the Truth. If you think posting directly and confidently, and being right most of the time, is arrogance, so be it.

As for 75's views and posting on the recent Ash firing, state and defend your position, and show how you think 75 is wrong. Posting the BS you post and resorting to your typical juvenile name-calling just undercuts your credibility and confirms what some like myself have thought of you since you first started posting.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Question PR...and NO lying. You have this little statement saved and you just cut and copy it, don't you? :thumb:

Question Doc3 ... you know you're just a troll, right? You can be honest about this, right?

Tell me playrape, can you tell the difference between a troll and someone challenging the pure bullshit spewed by some people on this site? If I were a troll I would be stirring up controversy and talking sh!t just for the sake of it. I am not doing that, I am calling out a fellow poster. I believe that UMGriz75 is a certified whack job with extreme views. He both minimizes and exaggerates the topic at hand depending on how it serves his own opinion, regardless of the facts or realities of the situation. Anything bad at UM happens and he minimizes it to the n'th degree...if you need proof and have about 30 hours, review any of his long winded posts on the recent legal issues of van ackeren et al...or the JJ / Krakauer thread. On the other hand, MSU fires the head coach for letting the program slide over the past 3 years and MSU is the devil and their fans are delusional irrational fanatics (he does realize that he is a member of one of the most fanatical fan bases right?) that are literally crazy for believing they could have a winning program and be an annual power in fcs football. The arrogance is ASTOUNDING, and total bullshit.

A troll is someone like yourself, who comes to the board only on occasion and primarily to stir up trouble, by making statements with inflammatory language designed to irritate many of the posters. A sports troll is often from another school, including a rival school. In your case, you sometimes make multiple posts on a subject, but apparently aren't good or smart enough to defend your comments, and then you resort to name-calling and crap. You are also very juvenile.

75 is one of the top posters on egriz. In the case of JJ and KVA, he like some of the rest of us was dead-on accurate, both early on and later. Note that JJ was acquitted and not kicked out of school. Note that KVA plead to a misdemeanor and missed only 1 game. People like yourself including some Cat fans want so dearly to have things at UM to be worse than they are or turn out to be, and want the Missoulian's inaccurate and biased reporting to be the truth. And, when posters like 75 and others quickly figure out what is actually the truth and start posting the truth and where the matter is going and likely to end up, you get so desperate that you start saying your juvenile junk. You can say or think 75 and others are arrogant, but he is damn right almost all of the time, and he posts his views, and undercuts incorrect views of trolls, naysayers and posters like you, in a direct, intelligence, methodical and respectful manner. As the movie line goes, You Can't Stand the Truth. If you think posting directly and confidently, and being right most of the time, is arrogance, so be it.

As for 75's views and posting on the recent Ash firing, state and defend your position, and show how you think 75 is wrong. Posting the BS you post and resorting to your typical juvenile name-calling just undercuts your credibility and confirms what some like myself have thought of you since you first started posting.

You forgot one of the more significant characteristics of a gutter snipe (troll) is they can goad people into grabbing a can of gasoline for the fire, and heading with it into their gutter. If you don't respond, they get bored and move on.

 

[UMGriz75]

[ Anything bad at UM happens and he minimizes it to the n'th degree...if you need proof and have about 30 hours, review any of his long winded posts on the recent legal issues of van ackeren et al...or the JJ / Krakauer thread. On the other hand, MSU fires the head coach for letting the program slide over the past 3 years and MSU is the devil and their fans are delusional irrational fanatics (he does realize that he is a member of one of the most fanatical fan bases right?) that are literally crazy for believing they could have a winning program and be an annual power in fcs football. The arrogance is ASTOUNDING, and total bullshit.

Of course, your problem is that I was exactly correct on the outcome of the JJ trial, and predicted the outcome of the charges against Van Ackeren, et al., in both cases, based on the facts, not your long-winded name calling which is what you do on a "good" day. You do start to expose the cause of your extended rants ... that anyone DARE question that the Cat fanbase thinks it should be an annual power in FCS football. How DARE anyone question that assumption? Any further evidence of an irrational fan, ranting and raving, would be duplicating evidence.

 

[UMGriz75]

On the other hand, MSU fires the head coach for letting the program slide over the past 3 years and MSU is the devil and their fans are delusional irrational fanatics (he does realize that he is a member of one of the most fanatical fan bases right?) that are literally crazy for believing they could have a winning program and be an annual power in fcs football. The arrogance is ASTOUNDING, and total bullshit.

I didn't even offer an opinion on "whether" Ash should have been fired. I do think it was a bit hasty. Bob Stitt had equally bad years at Mines and I guess we are fortunate that the fans weren't after his hide during those off years.

My point however was clear, I think Ash should have been permitted to retire gracefully, with a good buyout to make it palatable.

Are you arguing Ash should have been humiliated by a very public firing? Appears so.

We have different opinions, and mine appears to be far more respectful of your coach than yours.

 

[Fahque]

Well shit, no way in hell is this thread going to make it to 17 pages now.

 

[tnt]

I didn't even offer an opinion on "whether" Ash should have been fired. I do think it was a bit hasty. Bob Stitt had equally bad years at Mines and I guess we are fortunate that the fans weren't after his hide during those off years.

My point however was clear, I think Ash should have been permitted to retire gracefully, with a good buyout to make it palatable.

Are you arguing Ash should have been humiliated by a very public firing? Appears so.

We have different opinions, and mine appears to be far more respectful of your coach than yours.

He would have ben just as fired, no matter how it came down and the discussion just about the same (among fans) Yes it could have been, should have been, handled better. But what we don't know is how the conversation went. The way the "contract" was changed, there should have been little doubt he was on a bubble. I suspect there is a lot more going on than most know. The decline in ticket sales is not something that would be well tolerated by a Certain president...................

 

[yellowstone60]

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/big-sky-conference/montana-state-university/football/rachac-column-bobcats-can-t-afford-to-miss-on-coaching/article_85ec98ba-27e3-57b5-89db-cdd56fcc840c.html

• Beat Montana. For Bobcats fans, this will forever be the top goal. And they didn’t do it nearly enough under Ash, going 2-7 against the Grizzlies. There’s no doubt that last week’s 54-35 loss at home was the final straw for Fields.

But the Bobcats haven’t beaten Montana with any long-term consistency under any coach since the 1970s, when Sonny Holland was at the helm. The new coach will be under great pressure to reverse this trend. Winning once against the Griz every four or five years won’t cut it.

 

[UMGriz75]

The decline in ticket sales is not something that would be well tolerated by a Certain president...................

2010: 14,298
2011: 17,071 (new expansion)
2012: 17,627
2013: 19,704
2014: 17,056
2015: 19,133

That's not bad at all for a mid-level program with a losing record this year and two high school opponents, although the game low was for the SUU game, at 17,427.

As one Cat fan posted over the summer:

ECat79 on Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:20 pm
My best guess concerning the dip in attendance [2014] may be the increased ticket prices, increased Bobcat club fees and increase tailgate rental prices. I'm sure it relates to recent success but loyalty and support aside--there has to be a point where it gets to be too much.

But, 2014 was apparently an artifact, and 2015 was the second best season ever in Bobcat history in attendance.

 

[UMGriz75]

He would have ben just as fired, no matter how it came down and the discussion just about the same (among fans) Yes it could have been, should have been, handled better. But what we don't know is how the conversation went. The way the "contract" was changed, there should have been little doubt he was on a bubble.

I had understood he had gotten a three-year extension in August, but, be that as it may, there is "classy" and there is "not classy" and the Wombats more or less cornered the market on "not classy" the way this was handled.

You just don't do it that way to a long-time, successful coach, who was a nice guy as well and who brought your middling program to something of national level prominence, and who didn't have a single murder on his watch.

 

[PlayerRep]

The contract was extended to a rolling 3-year contract in August, I believe. It was not publicly announced until a month or so ago. The contact can apparently be terminated by paying less than 3 years of compensation. I read that Ash will be paid "through the end of the school year".

 

[bigsky33]

The decline in ticket sales is not something that would be well tolerated by a Certain president...................

2010: 14,298
2011: 17,071 (new expansion)
2012: 17,627
2013: 19,704
2014: 17,056
2015: 19,133

That's not bad at all for a mid-level program with a losing record this year and two high school opponents, although the game low was for the SUU game, at 17,427.

As one Cat fan posted over the summer:

ECat79 on Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:20 pm
My best guess concerning the dip in attendance [2014] may be the increased ticket prices, increased Bobcat club fees and increase tailgate rental prices. I'm sure it relates to recent success but loyalty and support aside--there has to be a point where it gets to be too much.

But, 2014 was apparently an artifact, and 2015 was the second best season ever in Bobcat history in attendance.

You are right. But, the expectations were high too. Both the media and coaches picked MSU to win the conference so there was a lot of excitement going into 2015 thus higher season ticket sales.

 

[bigsky33]

He would have ben just as fired, no matter how it came down and the discussion just about the same (among fans) Yes it could have been, should have been, handled better. But what we don't know is how the conversation went. The way the "contract" was changed, there should have been little doubt he was on a bubble.

I had understood he had gotten a three-year extension in August, but, be that as it may, there is "classy" and there is "not classy" and the Wombats more or less cornered the market on "not classy" the way this was handled.

You just don't do it that way to a long-time, successful coach, who was a nice guy as well and who brought your middling program to something of national level prominence, and who didn't have a single murder on his watch.

75 you don't have a clue as to what actually took place or the discussions that Fields and Ash had during the year. You are making a lot of wild assumptions. I do know everyone involved in this decision has a lot of respect for Rob Ash as a person.

 

[UMGriz75]

You are making a lot of wild assumptions.

I'm not making any assumptions. I'm saying a classy program and classy people give somebody like Ash a graceful exit.

They didn't. The list of excuses of what we know, don't know, could know, might not know, and never will know doesn't matter. You give somebody like Ash a graceful exit.

I agree entirely with Sonny Holland on this, who apparently shares my "wild assumptions," whatever they are, or is apparently just as ignorant of the medieval machinations of Bobcat intrigue as I am.

 

[bigsky33]

You are making a lot of wild assumptions.

I'm not making any assumptions. I'm saying a classy program and classy people give somebody like Ash a graceful exit.

They didn't. The list of excuses of what we know, don't know, could know, might not know, and never will know doesn't matter. You give somebody like Ash a graceful exit.

I agree entirely with Sonny Holland on this, who apparently shares my "wild assumptions," whatever they are, or is apparently just as ignorant of the medieval machinations of Bobcat intrigue as I am.

75, how do you know they did not offer him some graceful exit options? He may have balked at this whole thing. Yes Sonny was mad. He was very close to Rob Ash.

 

[UMGriz75]

75, how do you know they did not offer him some graceful exit options? He may have balked at this whole thing. Yes Sonny was mad. He was very close to Rob Ash.

Beat this to death. Fields said they had their conversation Monday morning, and Ash was not being cooperative. OK. Give it a couple of days. Anybody that has been in the real world of HR knows that you can't surprise/shock people and get the desired result. That's HR 101. These kinds of things need to be finessed, and sometimes it requires negotiating the severance, when it may start to look like the attractive option.

You could see how well thought out this was when Field announced that Ash had been fired and then offered to take questions. Oh, then, oops, perfunctorily, "oh and by the way Ash was a great coach." And offered to take questions again. Nothing "classy" about that either.

On the other hand, if MSU wanted to make this look like a hasty and botched firing, a "classless endeavor," they got "A+" on that one. Fields made it look that way. That requires no speculation.

 

[bigsky33]

75, how do you know they did not offer him some graceful exit options? He may have balked at this whole thing. Yes Sonny was mad. He was very close to Rob Ash.

Beat this to death. Fields said they had their conversation Monday morning, and Ash was not being cooperative. OK. Give it a couple of days. Anybody that has been in the real world of HR knows that you can't surprise/shock people and get the desired result. That's HR 101. These kinds of things need to be finessed, and sometimes it requires negotiating the severance, when it may start to look like the attractive option.

You could see how well thought out this was when Field announced that Ash had been fired and then offered to take questions. Oh, then, oops, perfunctorily, "oh and by the way Ash was a great coach." And offered to take questions again. Nothing "classy" about that either.

On the other hand, if MSU wanted to make this look like a hasty and botched firing, a "classless endeavor," they got "A+" on that one. Fields made it look that way. That requires no speculation.

The bottom line 75 is you really don't have any idea when and what conversations took place before this went down. Yes they had a conversation Monday. There probably had been many throughout the year. You don't have any idea of how Ash reacted or the tone of their meeting. As far as the press conference, Fields was asked some very antagonistic questions (that is ok). He had to be very careful as to how he answered them (probably from a legal standpoint). It was like walking thru a mindfield. Also, Peter had tremendous respect for Rob and I am sure this was very difficult for him emotionally. I really do not think any of the things you are speculating are valid. However, you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Spanky]

Ash was among the three or four best coaches in Bobcat football for the last 50 years. He projected a good image for the program and school. He was a decent recruiter when it is difficult to get talented players to attend MSU. He kept a lid on public knowledge of player bad behavior as compared to Kramer. His record against the Griz wasn't good and he seemed to place blame on others for failure rather than accepting responsibility. Generally, it will be difficult for state college to find a coach that will come up to the standard of Ash.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

After 14 pages, I think we should demonstrate class and show respect by at least referring to this gentleman by his proper name:

"Coach Ron Ash"

 

[bigsky33]

Ash was among the three or four best coaches in Bobcat football for the last 50 years. He projected a good image for the program and school. He was a decent recruiter when it is difficult to get talented players to attend MSU. He kept a lid on public knowledge of player bad behavior as compared to Kramer. His record against the Griz wasn't good and he seemed to place blame on others for failure rather than accepting responsibility. Generally, it will be difficult for state college to find a coach that will come up to the standard of Ash.

Spanky, yes you are right on those things. He has established a culture in his 9 years for what is expected with regard to student/athlete behavior and recruiting players with character. This culture is now a cornerstone for MSU Athletics. However, the program was on a downward trend as far as won/lost games the past few seasons and it got worse this year. I don't think it will be difficult to find a coach that will continue the established culture and improve on the won/lost. The last three coaches hired at MSU, each did better than the previous-Hysell, Kramer, Ash.

 

[UMGriz75]

The bottom line 75 is you really don't have any idea when and what conversations took place before this went down. Yes they had a conversation Monday. There probably had been many throughout the year. You don't have any idea of how Ash reacted or the tone of their meeting.

Ironically, neither do you.

I can say exactly how it looked, however: "classless."

That requires no speculation whatsoever.