Rob Ash Fired

[horribilisfan8184]

Had a losing record to Delaney and got rolled in Mick's last year. This year's game showed that was no fluke. If Rob proved anything it was that whatever innovation he could imagine over the summer, he put it in park during the season. Once figured out by opposing coaches, the late season meltdown was assured. If only he could have scheduled the Griz in mid September.....

 

[statler & waldorf]

Interesting discussion, but how is a "new direction" possible with the same guy that hired Ash?

 

[UMGriz75]

75 has been off his meds for several weeks...

Ya, ya, last week you were all about Stitt wouldn't be able to do anything with these players, until he recruited his own. Did you change your meds?

Actually I said he would be better when he recruited his own players and part of the struggles this season was meshing what he wants to do with what he has....not even close to what you said...

And I pointed out that is the problem every coach has and always will have, "new recruits" or not. And I pointed to Bob Stitt's own record. Your problem?

 

[UMGriz75]

Had a losing record to Delaney and got rolled in Mick's last year. This year's game showed that was no fluke. If Rob proved anything it was that whatever innovation he could imagine over the summer, he put it in park during the season. Once figured out by opposing coaches, the late season meltdown was assured. If only he could have scheduled the Griz in mid September.....

Something that was such a pattern, it was almost remarkable ... Ripley's Believe It or Not remarkable.

Griz, start wobbly, get stronger, and by the end of the season, always peaking.

Cats, start with visions of the final Conquest of the Planet Earth, a few high scoring games, and then the slow, twisting glide into oblivion. Repeatedly. How DO you coach for those results?

 

[grizindabox]

75 has been off his meds for several weeks...

Ya, ya, last week you were all about Stitt wouldn't be able to do anything with these players, until he recruited his own. Did you change your meds?

Actually I said he would be better when he recruited his own players and part of the struggles this season was meshing what he wants to do with what he has....not even close to what you said...

And I pointed out that is the problem every coach has and always will have, "new recruits" or not. And I pointed to Bob Stitt's own record. Your problem?

Actually that was minor to your argument.....but I am not going to rehash the flawed logic of what your actual argument was...

 

[cclarkblues]

I'm a little sad tonight. Coach Ash was one of the best friends that the Griz football program ever had.

I haven't been able to confirm this, but rumor has it that UM has requested a game-worn pair of khakis to hang -- forever -- in our Hall of Champions. Count me as one saying it would be a worthy tribute.

It would be a classy move to honor a classy guy. I vote to include a re-corked bottle of pinot grigio alongside the game-worn khakis.

I need to say, he was resplendent on Saturday. We will not soon see a crease like Rob's.

 

[UMGriz75]

Actually that was minor to your argument.....but I am not going to rehash the flawed logic of what your actual argument was...

Your argument was that "stats" show nothing; only that play by play analysis can reveal truth, a "truth" you repeatedly failed to demonstrate even after multiple requests to do so, apparently a default argument when you don't like the "stats."

 

[mcg]

It seems to me the problem the kitties are going to have finding a new coach is that candidates will see that when you win 8 games per year and run a squeeky clean program, if you have 5-6 season and don't beat the Griz you are gone.

while i'm not surprised some are trying to make this all about the griz, it's just not the case. what UM75 is saying is also not the case. i know many big time boosters. i was in the quarterback club tonight where ash spoke. very somber by the way.

not every booster is going to like head coaches. just as some weren't donating money while ash was here, some may stop giving because ash is gone. but the arrogance over here is striking. ash wasn't this incredible coach who only got fired because he couldn't beat the griz... :roll:

the irony of these posts is unbelievable. i could find a thousand posts here about how shitty ash was. how he couldn't beat the griz. how he didn't win in november. about how he couldn't beat ewu or other teams relevant in the big sky. about how you wanted him to stay forever because you knew all these flaws. now we do something about it and some are acting like it's some crazy travesty.

some are being way too dramatic anyway. did some of you really not see the writing on the wall? ash is an excellent guy. i think he's a good coach too. not great but good. he ran a tight ship and from everything i've heard players liked him. he won many games, but most of those games were ones we should have won. he got fired for several reasons. his record against the griz and eagles was terrible. he had a poor record against teams .500 or better. in big games we lost...we got hammered. our record in the playoffs was not good. and he had a terrible defense last year and chose not to fix it only to see it get worse this year.

we could have kept ash. he likely would have had a winning record again next year. if he stuck around long enough he could build up another streak of winning seasons. winning records in the big sky conference, especially with our out of conference schedules haven't been difficult to achieve. but it doesn't matter if we keep getting drilled by the griz, the eagles, and any team we happen to meet in the playoffs.

people can keep harping on the fact that we fired this poor coach after one losing season. that we have such crazy expectations to do so. i wouldn't expect anything else on this board. people can try to make this as bad as they want because ash had an overall good win/loss record. but anyone with any objectivity can look at the stats and see that he just wasn't getting the job done in the games that mattered. he said as much this evening.

i wish rob all the best. but i refuse to think i'm delusional for wanting a guy to not only have a winning season, but also not get hammered by any decent team we play.

:idea:

I don't understand your response to my post, which did nothing more than state the obvious.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

ILTC, would Ron have a job tonight if he would have won last Saturday?

 

[cclarkblues]

Ash reminds me of Jimmy Carter. He would make the best neighbor imaginable, an outstanding member of the community, and you might even let him frame in your bathroom. But when the snow flies and the barbarians are heading for Bozeman, you want the craftiest, meanest son of a bitch you can imagine.

 

[grizindabox]

Actually that was minor to your argument.....but I am not going to rehash the flawed logic of what your actual argument was...

Your argument was that "stats" show nothing; only that play by play analysis can reveal truth, a "truth" you repeatedly failed to demonstrate even after multiple requests to do so, apparently a default argument when you don't like the "stats."

actually I said stats don't tell the whole story and you get a much better picture of how those stats were accumulated by looking at individual plays.....sometimes good rushing stats for a QB could be due to deficiencies in his abilities to read a pass defense and adjust to a secondary receiver so he just takes off running....but boy he looked good running...

seems like twice now you have tried to twist what I stated because it didn't conform to your argument....good work...

 

[Umista]

Female msu president beating our president in every thing important with the exception of football. That little lady told sir Pee Fields to fire Ash and get a guy in that could win the Big Sky and win 3 or 4 post season games each and every year. And of course beat the hated Griz.
The real big goat roper in all of this is Pee Fields a low classless slug that is hiding from the fact that he has not obtained any decent coaches during his term. Lady C. should have fired his ass way before Rob Ash. In any event a new coach will arrive on campus in a month or so with horns blowing and volumes of fanfare along with the usual political promise of greatness! In the meantime Montana people are wondering what in the hell is going on? After all wasn't Ash hired to run a clean program? He did that very well. Won lots of games etc. but the bastards fired him anyway. Back to a dirty program so they can win at all costs???? Four years from now msu will be hanging from a weak limp goat rope. Fields? Gone. Crusado? Gone. New fantasy coach? U figered it!

 

[UMGriz75]

Actually that was minor to your argument.....but I am not going to rehash the flawed logic of what your actual argument was...

Your argument was that "stats" show nothing; only that play by play analysis can reveal truth, a "truth" you repeatedly failed to demonstrate even after multiple requests to do so, apparently a default argument when you don't like the "stats."

actually I said stats don't tell the whole story and you get a much better picture of how those stats were accumulated by looking at individual plays.....sometimes good rushing stats for a QB could be due to deficiencies in his abilities to read a pass defense and adjust to a secondary receiver so he just takes off running....but boy he looked good running...

seems like twice now you have tried to twist what I stated because it didn't conform to your argument....good work...

And multiple times, when asked to offer an example of your thesis, you retreated into platitudes. As I noted, watch the game, see the plays, and then see how the strategy worked, as summarized in the "stats" -- which are the summary of the cumulative plays, not the "one off of one good play or one bad play." You didn't know what to say about that, and so continued to say nothing.

 

[grizindabox]

Actually that was minor to your argument.....but I am not going to rehash the flawed logic of what your actual argument was...

Your argument was that "stats" show nothing; only that play by play analysis can reveal truth, a "truth" you repeatedly failed to demonstrate even after multiple requests to do so, apparently a default argument when you don't like the "stats."

actually I said stats don't tell the whole story and you get a much better picture of how those stats were accumulated by looking at individual plays.....sometimes good rushing stats for a QB could be due to deficiencies in his abilities to read a pass defense and adjust to a secondary receiver so he just takes off running....but boy he looked good running...

seems like twice now you have tried to twist what I stated because it didn't conform to your argument....good work...

And multiple times, when asked to offer an example of your thesis, you retreated into platitudes. As I noted, watch the game, see the plays, and then see how the strategy worked, as summarized in the "stats" -- which are the summary of the cumulative plays, not the "one off of one good play or one bad play." You didn't know what to say about that, and so continued to say nothing.

I remember that your statistical metric led you to state that it would be a mistake for Stitt to start Brady when he was ready....Simis was the statistically better option...

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Wow, did not see this coming if true. I know the last couple of years were tough but what is his record at MSU like 70 -38 total and 48 - 23 in conference with the current season being the only losing season he had? Figured he had a year or two based on the contract extension he just got!!

I am surprised as well. Ash's overall record is very positive on the wins, and he kept the kids and coach's out of trouble. There hasn't been a single murder on his watch.

Ash isn't ordinarily the kind of coach you fire (or "retire" early). What this results from is losing to the Griz three games in a row. It also results from a near-psychopathic fan base that has themselves convinced that "they" are an elite program and that it is just the darn coaches and players that keep letting them down. The Cat "program" is the worst case of "projection" in all of college football. The fanbase has one perception of what they are; the reality produces a different view. Ash is their voodoo doll and they are vicious abut sticking the pins in.

It sends quite a message to recruits and to the next coach and coaching staff. If I was a college coach, and had a prospect of applying, I would think twice about applying to MSU. I would have to note that the major opponent the coach faces isn't opposing teams, it's the "fans."

Well said 75.

 

[ilovethecats]

It seems to me the problem the kitties are going to have finding a new coach is that candidates will see that when you win 8 games per year and run a squeeky clean program, if you have 5-6 season and don't beat the Griz you are gone.

while i'm not surprised some are trying to make this all about the griz, it's just not the case. what UM75 is saying is also not the case. i know many big time boosters. i was in the quarterback club tonight where ash spoke. very somber by the way.

not every booster is going to like head coaches. just as some weren't donating money while ash was here, some may stop giving because ash is gone. but the arrogance over here is striking. ash wasn't this incredible coach who only got fired because he couldn't beat the griz... :roll:

the irony of these posts is unbelievable. i could find a thousand posts here about how shitty ash was. how he couldn't beat the griz. how he didn't win in november. about how he couldn't beat ewu or other teams relevant in the big sky. about how you wanted him to stay forever because you knew all these flaws. now we do something about it and some are acting like it's some crazy travesty.

some are being way too dramatic anyway. did some of you really not see the writing on the wall? ash is an excellent guy. i think he's a good coach too. not great but good. he ran a tight ship and from everything i've heard players liked him. he won many games, but most of those games were ones we should have won. he got fired for several reasons. his record against the griz and eagles was terrible. he had a poor record against teams .500 or better. in big games we lost...we got hammered. our record in the playoffs was not good. and he had a terrible defense last year and chose not to fix it only to see it get worse this year.

we could have kept ash. he likely would have had a winning record again next year. if he stuck around long enough he could build up another streak of winning seasons. winning records in the big sky conference, especially with our out of conference schedules haven't been difficult to achieve. but it doesn't matter if we keep getting drilled by the griz, the eagles, and any team we happen to meet in the playoffs.

people can keep harping on the fact that we fired this poor coach after one losing season. that we have such crazy expectations to do so. i wouldn't expect anything else on this board. people can try to make this as bad as they want because ash had an overall good win/loss record. but anyone with any objectivity can look at the stats and see that he just wasn't getting the job done in the games that mattered. he said as much this evening.

i wish rob all the best. but i refuse to think i'm delusional for wanting a guy to not only have a winning season, but also not get hammered by any decent team we play.

:idea:

I don't understand your response to my post, which did nothing more than state the obvious.

ok, i'll try shorter and sweeter. this will not be an issue for the candidates because they'll have common sense and stats available. ash didn't get fired because of one losing season and losing to the griz. so why would this made up scenario make it difficult to land a good candidate?

now, if candidates see that we expect to make the playoffs, expect to beat the griz on occasion, expect that if we lose to not get blown out, and expect to beat good teams and this scares them off....we don't want them anyway.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

#Brevity

 

[ilovethecats]

ILTC, would Ron have a job tonight if he would have won last Saturday?

tough to say from what i've heard so far. my gut says that after such a rough season, if we could have beaten you guys against the odds it would have gotten him another year. it would have given us a winning season, and ended our current skid against you guys.

that said, it sounds like this has been if not in the works, at least discussed for the last 4-5 weeks. around the time we played psu and und there was a lot of heat. some people who i consider in the know say that after this time period, the only thing that would have saved ash and staff was a playoff appearance. one person i talked to a bit tonight said that when we were eliminated from the playoffs ash was gone no matter what.

i just don't think i buy that based on my previous points but i don't claim to be in the know. i just happen to be friends with some that are and usually take their word as gospel in these matters.

 

[ilovethecats]

#Brevity

:lol:

sorry. tough sometimes. how about this?

:finger:

 

[UMGriz75]

I remember that your statistical metric led you to state that it would be a mistake for Stitt to start Brady when he was ready....Simis was the statistically better option...

Actually what you are doing is putting words in my mouth (or on my keyboard), the logical fallacy you also used at the time when you started to fail on the points you tried to make.