Returning UM football to dominance

[Evers]

I keep hearing about our 10-2 record. Do you ever recall that we were a miraculous blocked FG, and a 100-yard KO return from being 8-4? We were totally outplayed in both of those games, if you recall. Then, there was the Coastal Carolina debacle, where Mick decided to play macho man and have our players compete in horrid weather against a team smart enough to dress appropriately.

....We were also schooled by Jerome Sowers in Flagstaff. Perhaps the most lop-sided Griz football loss I can remember in the past 10 years. We were embarrassed there, and were never in the game from the opening kick-off.

Dude, take a valium. EVERY season there's games we win that we should have lost, and games we lose we should have won. Hell, in our 5-6 season we were THHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSS close to being 8-3. Shit happens, deal with it.

And if you think the NAU loss was the worst Griz loss in the last 10 years, you must not be old enough to remember the 2008 Championship game against Richmond. Now THERE was a game we weren't in from the opening kickoff.

I am not talking about winning close games. We were totally out-played in both the Cal Poly and South Dakota games. The Poly FG was from extra point range. With identical circumstances, we do not win that game 1 in 50 times. Then, in the South Dakota game, a game in which Delaney was once again schooled by our old head coach Glenn, we do not win that game 1 in 100 times. If Glenn kicks a squibb kick, we lose. Even if he kicks it long, like he did, how many return for a TD have we had in the past 5 years? The answer is that was the ONLY one. So, face the facts. Delaney gets schooled by opposing coaches in nearly every game. Fortunately we have such superior players than most of the teams we play, that we are still able to win. But, South Dakota? Poly? NAU? Some of you gloss over the won-lost record without digging down to the actual games. Name one solid team in our ten wins that we defeated last season? Don't say the Cats either, cause by the end of the season they could not beat anybody.

Oh, and the NAU drubbing was worse than the Richmond playoff game. I was in attendance at both of them. We were never in the NAU game from the two-minute mark in the first quarter. It was a total and complete embarrassment.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Really? Remember when it was 14-3 and we were on the 2 yard line about to make it 14-10? THat was at the 2 minute mark of the SECOND quarter. Remember how our defense gave up 2 quick scores, and then only gave up SIX POINTS the rest of the game? Remember how NAU lucked out and got two great bounces to return fumbles for TD's? Remember how NAU's offense manufactured a grand total of 22 yards in the 2nd quarter? Remember how our defense blocked a FG and forced a fumble at the 2 yard line to KEEP us in the game?

Yeah, probably not. :roll:

Oh, and typically when you are outplayed you lose. Yet somehow, in the Sac State, USD & Cal Poly we managed to win. Call it luck. Call it great players overcoming incompetent coaches, call it gutsy playcalling...call it whatever you want. It STILL counts as a mark in the win column at the end of the day.

Oh right, we were really in that game. Let's look at the stats.

Passing:

Montana 17/38 44% NAU 23/31 74%

Rushing:

Montana 26 for 55 yds. 2.1 ave. NAU 37 for 150 yds. 4.1 ave.

Total yards:

Montana 295 NAU 398

Final Score: NAU 34, Montana 16

Total dominance in every area of the game. Fumbles are part of the game.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Total dominance in every area of the game. Fumbles are part of the game.

And so are losses.

You made the statement we weren't in that game from the 2 minute mark of the 1st quarter. That's patently false. And yet you say you were AT that game? :? :?

 

[WaGriz4life]

I keep hearing about our 10-2 record. Do you ever recall that we were a miraculous blocked FG, and a 100-yard KO return from being 8-4? We were totally outplayed in both of those games, if you recall. Then, there was the Coastal Carolina debacle, where Mick decided to play macho man and have our players compete in horrid weather against a team smart enough to dress appropriately.

....We were also schooled by Jerome Sowers in Flagstaff. Perhaps the most lop-sided Griz football loss I can remember in the past 10 years. We were embarrassed there, and were never in the game from the opening kick-off.

Dude, take a valium. EVERY season there's games we win that we should have lost, and games we lose we should have won. Hell, in our 5-6 season we were THHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSS close to being 8-3. Shit happens, deal with it.

And if you think the NAU loss was the worst Griz loss in the last 10 years, you must not be old enough to remember the 2008 Championship game against Richmond. Now THERE was a game we weren't in from the opening kickoff.

I am not talking about winning close games. We were totally out-played in both the Cal Poly and South Dakota games. The Poly FG was from extra point range. With identical circumstances, we do not win that game 1 in 50 times. Then, in the South Dakota game, a game in which Delaney was once again schooled by our old head coach Glenn, we do not win that game 1 in 100 times. If Glenn kicks a squibb kick, we lose. Even if he kicks it long, like he did, how many return for a TD have we had in the past 5 years? The answer is that was the ONLY one. So, face the facts. Delaney gets schooled by opposing coaches in nearly every game. Fortunately we have such superior players than most of the teams we play, that we are still able to win. But, South Dakota? Poly? NAU? Some of you gloss over the won-lost record without digging down to the actual games. Name one solid team in our ten wins that we defeated last season? Don't say the Cats either, cause by the end of the season they could not beat anybody.

Oh, and the NAU drubbing was worse than the Richmond playoff game. I was in attendance at both of them. We were never in the NAU game from the two-minute mark in the first quarter. It was a total and complete embarrassment.

This is definately NOT true and quite frankly, has NEVER been true give or a take a couple special years.

Oh and we have only one KOR TD in the last 5 years? I can think of two returns during games I was AT in the last 5 years not made by Ellis

 

[CV Griz Fan]

I keep hearing about our 10-2 record. Do you ever recall that we were a miraculous blocked FG, and a 100-yard KO return from being 8-4? We were totally outplayed in both of those games, if you recall. Then, there was the Coastal Carolina debacle, where Mick decided to play macho man and have our players compete in horrid weather against a team smart enough to dress appropriately.

....We were also schooled by Jerome Sowers in Flagstaff. Perhaps the most lop-sided Griz football loss I can remember in the past 10 years. We were embarrassed there, and were never in the game from the opening kick-off.

Dude, take a valium. EVERY season there's games we win that we should have lost, and games we lose we should have won. Hell, in our 5-6 season we were THHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSS close to being 8-3. Shit happens, deal with it.

And if you think the NAU loss was the worst Griz loss in the last 10 years, you must not be old enough to remember the 2008 Championship game against Richmond. Now THERE was a game we weren't in from the opening kickoff.

I am not talking about winning close games. We were totally out-played in both the Cal Poly and South Dakota games. The Poly FG was from extra point range. With identical circumstances, we do not win that game 1 in 50 times. Then, in the South Dakota game, a game in which Delaney was once again schooled by our old head coach Glenn, we do not win that game 1 in 100 times. If Glenn kicks a squibb kick, we lose. Even if he kicks it long, like he did, how many return for a TD have we had in the past 5 years? The answer is that was the ONLY one. So, face the facts. Delaney gets schooled by opposing coaches in nearly every game. Fortunately we have such superior players than most of the teams we play, that we are still able to win. But, South Dakota? Poly? NAU? Some of you gloss over the won-lost record without digging down to the actual games. Name one solid team in our ten wins that we defeated last season? Don't say the Cats either, cause by the end of the season they could not beat anybody.

Oh, and the NAU drubbing was worse than the Richmond playoff game. I was in attendance at both of them. We were never in the NAU game from the two-minute mark in the first quarter. It was a total and complete embarrassment.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Really? Remember when it was 14-3 and we were on the 2 yard line about to make it 14-10? THat was at the 2 minute mark of the SECOND quarter. Remember how our defense gave up 2 quick scores, and then only gave up SIX POINTS the rest of the game? Remember how NAU lucked out and got two great bounces to return fumbles for TD's? Remember how NAU's offense manufactured a grand total of 22 yards in the 2nd quarter? Remember how our defense blocked a FG and forced a fumble at the 2 yard line to KEEP us in the game?

Yeah, probably not. :roll:

Oh, and typically when you are outplayed you lose. Yet somehow, in the Sac State, USD & Cal Poly we managed to win. Call it luck. Call it great players overcoming incompetent coaches, call it gutsy playcalling...call it whatever you want. It STILL counts as a mark in the win column at the end of the day.

Yes but this thread is about a Griz return to dominance. A 3rd place finish in the BSC and a blowout loss at home in the playoffs is not really a sign of a return to dominance. A record of 10-3 or 8-4 is irrelevant at this point.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Yes but this thread is about a Griz return to dominance. A 3rd place finish in the BSC and a blowout loss at home in the playoffs is not really a sign of a return to dominance. A record of 10-3 or 8-4 is irrelevant at this point.

Agreed....just trying to correct revisionist historians for whom the ship be sinkin' constantly.

 

[Silvertip]

The first time in history I agree with you on anything outright and you get oppositional. There is medication for that...............

Providing additional and factual information is "oppositional"?

Yup. You know exactly what you were saying, why and how. You also (you already know this) were attempting to make a point you have no idea is right or wrong but would make it appear the Football Stadium was carrying its own weight and providing a net profit above its expenses. If it is, you were right all along, if it turns out its not, you never said it was.

No, I wasn't doing that at all. I was responding to this part of your prior post. That's all. "Rarely used by outside groups"? That's not an accurate statement by you.

"then look at facilities dedicated/used by the team but the multi-million dollar stadium used six times a year (but maintained none the less) and rarley by outside groups I would be hard pressed to say disproportionate"

I may have gotten lost in Alpha's revery - but doesn't football pay for the right to play in Wa-Griz? And if so, how much? If so, is this a common practice in D-1? And if this has already been addressed just point me there...

 

[tnt]

Providing additional and factual information is "oppositional"?

Yup. You know exactly what you were saying, why and how. You also (you already know this) were attempting to make a point you have no idea is right or wrong but would make it appear the Football Stadium was carrying its own weight and providing a net profit above its expenses. If it is, you were right all along, if it turns out its not, you never said it was.

No, I wasn't doing that at all. I was responding to this part of your prior post. That's all. "Rarely used by outside groups"? That's not an accurate statement by you.

"then look at facilities dedicated/used by the team but the multi-million dollar stadium used six times a year (but maintained none the less) and rarley by outside groups I would be hard pressed to say disproportionate"

I may have gotten lost in Alpha's revery - but doesn't football pay for the right to play in Wa-Griz? And if so, how much? If so, is this a common practice in D-1? And if this has already been addressed just point me there...

Not anymore than the Business department pays for the right to use the Gallagher Business Building. Every department has a budget a share of fixed expenses as well as operating expenses. They also have income be it tuition, ticket sales etc. Foundation/donation income is handled in several ways. It is either added to Capital expenses such as building, endowment, Scholarship dollars go to the general fund as do most of the other "donations" If they are designated they go where designated. Each department is pretty much for dividing up the expenses and ultimately is responsible for making its budget work. Its really not terribly difficult, it operates like any other business. Where it gets difficult is when the fans and alumni get involved. Its one university. Its not the Business dept and the university or the drama department and the university or the football department and the university. Everybody has their pet and is convinced everybody else is eating from their dish. As the university unlike say Harvard with billions in endowment is not self supporting its a rather moot point. The only question is how much the taxpayers are willing to foot the bill and latley its been less. Institutional support is how much the department is short. A high institutional support can mean a couple of things the department is indeed losing money OR getting screwed when billed for shared expenses.

 

[GrizPony]

Yup. You know exactly what you were saying, why and how. You also (you already know this) were attempting to make a point you have no idea is right or wrong but would make it appear the Football Stadium was carrying its own weight and providing a net profit above its expenses. If it is, you were right all along, if it turns out its not, you never said it was.

No, I wasn't doing that at all. I was responding to this part of your prior post. That's all. "Rarely used by outside groups"? That's not an accurate statement by you.

"then look at facilities dedicated/used by the team but the multi-million dollar stadium used six times a year (but maintained none the less) and rarley by outside groups I would be hard pressed to say disproportionate"

I may have gotten lost in Alpha's revery - but doesn't football pay for the right to play in Wa-Griz? And if so, how much? If so, is this a common practice in D-1? And if this has already been addressed just point me there...

Not anymore than the Business department pays for the right to use the Gallagher Business Building. Every department has a budget a share of fixed expenses as well as operating expenses. They also have income be it tuition, ticket sales etc. Foundation/donation income is handled in several ways. It is either added to Capital expenses such as building, endowment, Scholarship dollars go to the general fund as do most of the other "donations" If they are designated they go where designated. Each department is pretty much for dividing up the expenses and ultimately is responsible for making its budget work. Its really not terribly difficult, it operates like any other business. Where it gets difficult is when the fans and alumni get involved. Its one university. Its not the Business dept and the university or the drama department and the university or the football department and the university. Everybody has their pet and is convinced everybody else is eating from their dish. As the university unlike say Harvard with billions in endowment is not self supporting its a rather moot point. The only question is how much the taxpayers are willing to foot the bill and latley its been less. Institutional support is how much the department is short. A high institutional support can mean a couple of things the department is indeed losing money OR getting screwed when billed for shared expenses.

Or UM is getting screwed relative to MSU by the Regents and legislature.

 

[tnt]

Or UM is getting screwed relative to MSU by the Regents and legislature.

That too

 

[hokeyfine]

regents or legislature don't control how um or msu spends their money. they give them a lump sum and each institution divides it up.

 

[GrizPony]

regents or legislature don't control how um or msu spends their money. they give them a lump sum and each institution divides it up.

They have given MSU more money for the last decade. I think it matters. If you don't, you are inbred. hokey? :thumb:

 

[PlayerRep]

Does anybody detect the aroma of gherkins?

Or Growler?

Notice how some of these posters refuse to participate in a valid discussion, which has been the most frequented thread of the past week, but have nothing to add to the discussion. I wonder why some of them post on a football message board, since they add nothing to the discussion.

What, Growler? I have multiple posts in this thread, and had an early post disagreeing with you. I realize that you don't like to debate with some of us because we run circles around you, and point out your mistakes.

 

[tgreseth]

I don't think Evers is Growler...different voice imo.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Yes but this thread is about a Griz return to dominance. A 3rd place finish in the BSC and a blowout loss at home in the playoffs is not really a sign of a return to dominance. A record of 10-3 or 8-4 is irrelevant at this point.

Agreed....just trying to correct revisionist historians for whom the ship be sinkin' constantly.

That's a good point about "the ships sinking" crowd. But it's really not about a sinking ship IMO. It's about staying on top. That's the challenge. This program is just not where it was 5-10 years ago. That's obvious. Whether it's money, poor leadership at the top or coaching the fact is the Griz program has fallen in stature. What is worse is that EWU is on a big upswing. EWU is now forcing the action in the BSC. That used to be UM's role.

 

[PlayerRep]

Yes but this thread is about a Griz return to dominance. A 3rd place finish in the BSC and a blowout loss at home in the playoffs is not really a sign of a return to dominance. A record of 10-3 or 8-4 is irrelevant at this point.

Agreed....just trying to correct revisionist historians for whom the ship be sinkin' constantly.

That's a good point about "the ships sinking" crowd. But it's really not about a sinking ship IMO. It's about staying on top. That's the challenge. This program is just not where it was 5-10 years ago. That's obvious. Whether it's money, poor leadership at the top or coaching the fact is the Griz program has fallen in stature. What is worse is that EWU is on a big upswing. EWU is now forcing the action in the BSC. That used to be UM's role.

Note that Hauck was coaching 5-10 years ago.

First, staying right near the top for so many years, was not sustainable--by any program. It's virtually impossible. Second, losing a star qb for a year, and not having a single qb on the roster who had completed a pass in college and only one who had throw a pass (4), caused UM to lose an additional 4 or 5 games. Third, the Big Sky has more good teams than it has ever had, and as you said EWU had the big upswing and other schools have moved up too. Fourth, coaching turnover and transition. Sooner or later too many coaching changes are going to hurt a program, at least to some extent. Fifth, leadership. Sixth, money and the lack of a weight/lockerroom isn't helping. Seventh, turmoil from the investigations and media were very distracting, for UM and the fans, as well as teams and coaches.

UM will climb back up, but as others have said, it is very unlikely that there will ever be any streaks of wins over the Cats or in the playoffs, as like there were during those streaks. The questions are: how fast, how much, and how long (near the top). The scholarship losses are not going to help get back to the top right away.

 

[argh!]

First, staying right near the top for so many years, was not sustainable--by any program. It's virtually impossible.
- or - losing was not inevitable - the players were the best in the bsc, and among the top in te country,

Second, losing a star qb for a year, and not having a single qb on the roster who had completed a pass in college and only one who had throw a pass (4), caused UM to lose an additional 4 or 5 games.
- or - gave um a great opportunity to grow, especially against the early cupcake schedule. alas..

Third, the Big Sky has more good teams than it has ever had, and as you said EWU had the big upswing and other schools have moved up too.
- or - the griz are slippin'

Fourth, coaching turnover and transition. Sooner or later too many coaching changes are going to hurt a program, at least to some extent.
- or - not even greenie can defend delaney

Fifth, leadership.
- or - wahhhhhh!

Sixth, money and the lack of a weight/lockerroom isn't helping.
- or - neither is greenie.

Seventh, turmoil from the investigations and media were very distracting, for UM and the fans, as well as teams and coaches.
- or - UM will climb back up, but as others have said, it is very unlikely that there will ever be any streaks of wins over the Cats or in the playoffs, as like there were during those streaks. The questions are: how fast, how much, and how long (near the top). The scholarship losses are not going to help get back to the top right away.

i need to get back to work.

 

[Ursa Major]

Does anybody detect the aroma of gherkins?

Or Growler?

Notice how some of these posters refuse to participate in a valid discussion, which has been the most frequented thread of the past week, but have nothing to add to the discussion. I wonder why some of them post on a football message board, since they add nothing to the discussion.

You pedestrian bastard!

 

[Hammer]

Total dominance in every area of the game. Fumbles are part of the game.

And so are losses.

You made the statement we weren't in that game from the 2 minute mark of the 1st quarter. That's patently false. And yet you say you were AT that game? :? :?

He was probably sitting with Michael Hawthorne!!!! :lol:

 

[Hammer]

Dude, take a valium. EVERY season there's games we win that we should have lost, and games we lose we should have won. Hell, in our 5-6 season we were THHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSS close to being 8-3. Shit happens, deal with it.

And if you think the NAU loss was the worst Griz loss in the last 10 years, you must not be old enough to remember the 2008 Championship game against Richmond. Now THERE was a game we weren't in from the opening kickoff.

I am not talking about winning close games. We were totally out-played in both the Cal Poly and South Dakota games. The Poly FG was from extra point range. With identical circumstances, we do not win that game 1 in 50 times. Then, in the South Dakota game, a game in which Delaney was once again schooled by our old head coach Glenn, we do not win that game 1 in 100 times. If Glenn kicks a squibb kick, we lose. Even if he kicks it long, like he did, how many return for a TD have we had in the past 5 years? The answer is that was the ONLY one. So, face the facts. Delaney gets schooled by opposing coaches in nearly every game. Fortunately we have such superior players than most of the teams we play, that we are still able to win. But, South Dakota? Poly? NAU? Some of you gloss over the won-lost record without digging down to the actual games. Name one solid team in our ten wins that we defeated last season? Don't say the Cats either, cause by the end of the season they could not beat anybody.

Oh, and the NAU drubbing was worse than the Richmond playoff game. I was in attendance at both of them. We were never in the NAU game from the two-minute mark in the first quarter. It was a total and complete embarrassment.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Really? Remember when it was 14-3 and we were on the 2 yard line about to make it 14-10? THat was at the 2 minute mark of the SECOND quarter. Remember how our defense gave up 2 quick scores, and then only gave up SIX POINTS the rest of the game? Remember how NAU lucked out and got two great bounces to return fumbles for TD's? Remember how NAU's offense manufactured a grand total of 22 yards in the 2nd quarter? Remember how our defense blocked a FG and forced a fumble at the 2 yard line to KEEP us in the game?

Yeah, probably not. :roll:

Oh, and typically when you are outplayed you lose. Yet somehow, in the Sac State, USD & Cal Poly we managed to win. Call it luck. Call it great players overcoming incompetent coaches, call it gutsy playcalling...call it whatever you want. It STILL counts as a mark in the win column at the end of the day.

Yes but this thread is about a Griz return to dominance. A 3rd place finish in the BSC and a blowout loss at home in the playoffs is not really a sign of a return to dominance. A record of 10-3 or 8-4 is irrelevant at this point.

Ok, we get it, Mrs Dill! :?

 

[Hammer]

regents or legislature don't control how um or msu spends their money. they give them a lump sum and each institution divides it up.

They have given MSU more money for the last decade. I think it matters. If you don't, you are inbred. hokey? :thumb:

And a substantial more amount, at that.