Reporting Live! From bozo

[catgrizfan]

I am a principal in a large district here in Montana. Over the past fifteen years I have been here, I have had two teachers be arrested for suspicion of driving while intoxicated. Both refused to submit to a breathalyzer. The teachers were immediately suspended with pay. In each case, I met with the teachers union, district leadership, and our lawyers the following day. Both the union and district leadership, in each case, felt the teacher should be terminated immediately. The reasoning was simple (and twofold): 1. We set the example for our students; 2. We work for the public and are entrusted to be good stewards with their tax dollars. Our lawyers gave us the same warning MSU's lawyers probably gave them - do not take any action until they receive full due process. Both the union and the district felt STRONGLY this is a hill we were ready to die on and this situation is precisely WHY we have attorneys. We would deal with any legal consequences if they arose. In each case, the teachers' contracts were terminated after one day.

Leaders in any industry are faced with situations where they must choose between doing what is right and what is easy. True leaders will hold true to their values and are not afraid to take a beating. My wife and I have five combined degrees from MSU and are absolutely sickened by how this has been handled. We try and attend a game or two every year but will not be back for a while, nor will we attend any alumni functions. We will instead go to two more Griz games and watch my former students play. I have emailed both Leon and Waded and expressed my disappointment. Their responses were almost identical (I think their secretaries replied with a form email crafted by their attorneys) and did not address my concerns. Pathetic.

 

[retiredpopo]

reading all these posts i get the feeling that there are many griz fans that actually think Willie smack and housewrong are really good coaches. I have said it before and still hope they don't lose their jobs. I also think it is funny as wound up as some posters are that they have not either went to bozo and obtained a copy of the arrest affidavits or found a local to do so for them. Hard to believe that hoops does not have a connection who would do that for him...

I responded to you on your last post about this, but I'll say this another way since you seem to miss the point each time. No one has mentioned whether they are good at coaching football or not because it has nothing to do with any of this. This is about people who serve as ambassadors for MSU and the Bozeman community, their various arrests, and the inadequate response by the head football coach, university leaders, and the Bozeman media. I think people are expecting acknowledgement, accountability, and action.

I guess I look at it differently. I don't care what happens in bozo as it has no impact on my life. I guess if I had some love for bozo I might worry about its reputation but if the people who live in bozo are not up in arms so be it. Do you lived there? Has lack of action caused you any grief? Seriously I could give a rip what happens there.

 

[retiredpopo]

reading all these posts i get the feeling that there are many griz fans that actually think Willie smack and housewrong are really good coaches. I have said it before and still hope they don't lose their jobs. I also think it is funny as wound up as some posters are that they have not either went to bozo and obtained a copy of the arrest affidavits or found a local to do so for them. Hard to believe that hoops does not have a connection who would do that for him...

I think it’s incredible that their administration has (in)acted the way it has, and I agree that it’s wild that the local media refuses to dig deeper into the second and third incidents. Not a big enough story, I guess.

all old news. on to more exciting stuff than trying to please maybe a handful of interested people. I suppose someone could make an anonymous call and say that Housewright was seen wearing a MAGA hat and Garza had a a FJB or LGB bumper sticker...that might get the ball rolling.

 

[markson161]

I responded to you on your last post about this, but I'll say this another way since you seem to miss the point each time. No one has mentioned whether they are good at coaching football or not because it has nothing to do with any of this. This is about people who serve as ambassadors for MSU and the Bozeman community, their various arrests, and the inadequate response by the head football coach, university leaders, and the Bozeman media. I think people are expecting acknowledgement, accountability, and action.

I guess I look at it differently. I don't care what happens in bozo as it has no impact on my life. I guess if I had some love for bozo I might worry about its reputation but if the people who live in bozo are not up in arms so be it. Do you lived there? Has lack of action caused you any grief? Seriously I could give a rip what happens there.

Well maybe when they are drunk driving in your town or have injured or killed someone you know you will care.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I am a principal in a large district here in Montana. Over the past fifteen years I have been here, I have had two teachers be arrested for suspicion of driving while intoxicated. Both refused to submit to a breathalyzer. The teachers were immediately suspended with pay. In each case, I met with the teachers union, district leadership, and our lawyers the following day. Both the union and district leadership, in each case, felt the teacher should be terminated immediately. The reasoning was simple (and twofold): 1. We set the example for our students; 2. We work for the public and are entrusted to be good stewards with their tax dollars. Our lawyers gave us the same warning MSU's lawyers probably gave them - do not take any action until they receive full due process. Both the union and the district felt STRONGLY this is a hill we were ready to die on and this situation is precisely WHY we have attorneys. We would deal with any legal consequences if they arose. In each case, the teachers' contracts were terminated after one day.

Leaders in any industry are faced with situations where they must choose between doing what is right and what is easy. True leaders will hold true to their values and are not afraid to take a beating. My wife and I have five combined degrees from MSU and are absolutely sickened by how this has been handled. We try and attend a game or two every year but will not be back for a while, nor will we attend any alumni functions. We will instead go to two more Griz games and watch my former students play. I have emailed both Leon and Waded and expressed my disappointment. Their responses were almost identical (I think their secretaries replied with a form email crafted by their attorneys) and did not address my concerns. Pathetic.

Sanity - finally.

 

[HookedonGriz]

I am a principal in a large district here in Montana. Over the past fifteen years I have been here, I have had two teachers be arrested for suspicion of driving while intoxicated. Both refused to submit to a breathalyzer. The teachers were immediately suspended with pay. In each case, I met with the teachers union, district leadership, and our lawyers the following day. Both the union and district leadership, in each case, felt the teacher should be terminated immediately. The reasoning was simple (and twofold): 1. We set the example for our students; 2. We work for the public and are entrusted to be good stewards with their tax dollars. Our lawyers gave us the same warning MSU's lawyers probably gave them - do not take any action until they receive full due process. Both the union and the district felt STRONGLY this is a hill we were ready to die on and this situation is precisely WHY we have attorneys. We would deal with any legal consequences if they arose. In each case, the teachers' contracts were terminated after one day.

Leaders in any industry are faced with situations where they must choose between doing what is right and what is easy. True leaders will hold true to their values and are not afraid to take a beating. My wife and I have five combined degrees from MSU and are absolutely sickened by how this has been handled. We try and attend a game or two every year but will not be back for a while, nor will we attend any alumni functions. We will instead go to two more Griz games and watch my former students play. I have emailed both Leon and Waded and expressed my disappointment. Their responses were almost identical (I think their secretaries replied with a form email crafted by their attorneys) and did not address my concerns. Pathetic.

Phenomenal post and 100% captures how I feel….and how most should feel as opposed to making excuses. I’ve said from day 1…..suspend them immediately, with pay for all I care until they get their day in court. You can 100% do that and send a strong message. MSU chose not to do that and lightly slapped their wrists. They have handled it completely wrong and irresponsibly.

 

[Griz til I die]

Here's a link to register for public comment at next weeks BOR meeting on July 11. If MSdUi doesn't wanna give out any answers, maybe the BOR will!
https://mus-edu.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Y-X7CW1IQIOnz9dFYDeGtQ#/registration

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I think it’s incredible that their administration has (in)acted the way it has, and I agree that it’s wild that the local media refuses to dig deeper into the second and third incidents. Not a big enough story, I guess.

all old news. on to more exciting stuff than trying to please maybe a handful of interested people. I suppose someone could make an anonymous call and say that Housewright was seen wearing a MAGA hat and Garza had a a FJB or LGB bumper sticker...that might get the ball rolling.

I'm not sure I follow. A dude gets arrested for his third DUI, and MSU gives him a contract extension and a raise. Another dude wrecks a company car (we don't know how or into what) while drunk and calls another member or members of the coaching staff to try to cover it up. MSU commented on the DC's drunken arrest and the local media published the police report. The local media won't report on the OC's drunken wreck/evading/arrest just because MSU decided to invent a new policy in-between its two coordinators' DUI arrests? That's bullshit leadership and you know it.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I am a principal in a large district here in Montana. Over the past fifteen years I have been here, I have had two teachers be arrested for suspicion of driving while intoxicated. Both refused to submit to a breathalyzer. The teachers were immediately suspended with pay. In each case, I met with the teachers union, district leadership, and our lawyers the following day. Both the union and district leadership, in each case, felt the teacher should be terminated immediately. The reasoning was simple (and twofold): 1. We set the example for our students; 2. We work for the public and are entrusted to be good stewards with their tax dollars. Our lawyers gave us the same warning MSU's lawyers probably gave them - do not take any action until they receive full due process. Both the union and the district felt STRONGLY this is a hill we were ready to die on and this situation is precisely WHY we have attorneys. We would deal with any legal consequences if they arose. In each case, the teachers' contracts were terminated after one day.

Leaders in any industry are faced with situations where they must choose between doing what is right and what is easy. True leaders will hold true to their values and are not afraid to take a beating. My wife and I have five combined degrees from MSU and are absolutely sickened by how this has been handled. We try and attend a game or two every year but will not be back for a while, nor will we attend any alumni functions. We will instead go to two more Griz games and watch my former students play. I have emailed both Leon and Waded and expressed my disappointment. Their responses were almost identical (I think their secretaries replied with a form email crafted by their attorneys) and did not address my concerns. Pathetic.

That district is lucky to have you. That's real leadership, and I couldn't agree more with the reasoning in bold.

 

[Da Boyz Mom]

I guess I look at it differently. I don't care what happens in bozo as it has no impact on my life. I guess if I had some love for bozo I might worry about its reputation but if the people who live in bozo are not up in arms so be it. Do you lived there? Has lack of action caused you any grief? Seriously I could give a rip what happens there.

Well maybe when they are drunk driving in your town or have injured or killed someone you know you will care.

Exactly. There is simply no excuse for this type of behavior by a college coach. It also matters because the two universities are inexorably tied together and there seems to be a double standard as far as handling any types of problems or scandals at the respective institutions. I would bet dollars to donuts that if the same thing happened in Missoula heads would be rolling. And if they didn't then the fans should rise up and complain until they did. But I guess Cat fans only have standards when it comes to critiquing UM (minus the few decent cat fans on this board.)

 

[3-7-77]

The disparity between MSUs handling of these MULTIPLE legal infractions, and UMs handling of the Jordan Johnson 'affair' is like night and day. Yeah, yeah, employees vs student, two tiered 'justice system.' Sounds like the current Biden Administration 'Dept. of Justice.' Look at the impact the JJ affair had on the University in general, and the Athletic Dept. specifically. That was 11+ years ago, and we are STILL impacted. Here, read up on the JJ trial and its implications.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigsky/2013/03/01/montana-jordan-johnson-grizzlies-rape-trial/1958193/
Royce Engstrom: "We will not tolerate the tarnishing of the proud tradition of Grizzly athletics," he said at the time.
Phony MF!
Contrast that with what Sixx, Costello, Cruzado, Clay Christian, and the BOR are allowing to play out in Bozeman. They ALL need to go down the road, every GD one of them, along with the coaches involved. I plan on putting my two cents worth in to the BOR, and will refer this to the NCAA for any possible ACTION on their part. Sounds like willful lack of institutional control by MSU to me. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. I'll drop a turd in their pool. Does anyone remember what happened to SMU long ago? If I can spur THAT kind of response by the NCAA, I will gladly dox myself and take a bow, then fade into the sunset like Shane. :thumb:

 

[bigsky33]

The disparity between MSUs handling of these MULTIPLE legal infractions, and UMs handling of the Jordan Johnson 'affair' is like night and day. Yeah, yeah, employees vs student, two tiered 'justice system.' Sounds like the current Biden Administration 'Dept. of Justice.' Look at the impact the JJ affair had on the University in general, and the Athletic Dept. specifically. That was 11+ years ago, and we are STILL impacted. Here, read up on the JJ trial and its implications.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigsky/2013/03/01/montana-jordan-johnson-grizzlies-rape-trial/1958193/
Royce Engstrom: "We will not tolerate the tarnishing of the proud tradition of Grizzly athletics," he said at the time.
Phony MF!
Contrast that with what Sixx, Costello, Cruzado, Clay Christian, and the BOR are allowing to play out in Bozeman. They ALL need to go down the road, every GD one of them, along with the coaches involved. I plan on putting my two cents worth in to the BOR, and will refer this to the NCAA for any possible ACTION on their part. Sounds like willful lack of institutional control by MSU to me. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. I'll drop a turd in their pool. Does anyone remember what happened to SMU long ago? If I can spur THAT kind of response by the NCAA, I will gladly dox myself and take a bow, then fade into the sunset like Shane. :thumb:

As horrible as we feel the way this has been handled at MSU, these individuals are still innocent at this time. Also, because of MSU's so called policy of not commenting on employee matters we do not know what actions have been taken or restrictions that have been put on these guys. Yes, they were signed to new contracts, but we don't know if any stipulations were involved. I agree with posters on here that they should have been suspended until the trial is completed. I also feel they should both be terminated if found guilty. I don't think the BOR or NCAA will do anything as long as these guys are still innocent. If after the verdict and they are found guilty and MSU does nothing, then I think the BOR and NCAA may be interested. Just my take.

 

[SoldierGriz]

The disparity between MSUs handling of these MULTIPLE legal infractions, and UMs handling of the Jordan Johnson 'affair' is like night and day. Yeah, yeah, employees vs student, two tiered 'justice system.' Sounds like the current Biden Administration 'Dept. of Justice.' Look at the impact the JJ affair had on the University in general, and the Athletic Dept. specifically. That was 11+ years ago, and we are STILL impacted. Here, read up on the JJ trial and its implications.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigsky/2013/03/01/montana-jordan-johnson-grizzlies-rape-trial/1958193/
Royce Engstrom: "We will not tolerate the tarnishing of the proud tradition of Grizzly athletics," he said at the time.
Phony MF!
Contrast that with what Sixx, Costello, Cruzado, Clay Christian, and the BOR are allowing to play out in Bozeman. They ALL need to go down the road, every GD one of them, along with the coaches involved. I plan on putting my two cents worth in to the BOR, and will refer this to the NCAA for any possible ACTION on their part. Sounds like willful lack of institutional control by MSU to me. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. I'll drop a turd in their pool. Does anyone remember what happened to SMU long ago? If I can spur THAT kind of response by the NCAA, I will gladly dox myself and take a bow, then fade into the sunset like Shane. :thumb:

As horrible as we feel the way this has been handled at MSU, these individuals are still innocent at this time. Also, because of MSU's so called policy of not commenting on employee matters we do not know what actions have been taken or restrictions that have been put on these guys. Yes, they were signed to new contracts, but we don't know if any stipulations were involved. I agree with posters on here that they should have been suspended until the trial is completed. I also feel they should both be terminated if found guilty. I don't think the BOR or NCAA will do anything as long as these guys are still innocent. If after the verdict and they are found guilty and MSU does nothing, then I think the BOR and NCAA may be interested. Just my take.

What have you done as a cat fan to express your displeasure? How about your buddies? Have you called the AD? Communicated your concerns to the Administrators? Contacted the BOR? Withheld season tix purchase? My guess is you've done nothing except post on your Big Bros message board.

My guess is you actually take great pleasure in watching your school with a castrated Head Coach cloak these crimes. After all...your team has a game with SDSU coming up.

Lame, weak, and soft - just like your HC and AD.

 

[nzone]

These are extraordinary charges not only involving DUI but a 3rd DUI and a coach who intentionally tried to cover up an accident. I’m astounded by the lack of “concern” by the university president and the AD.

 

[bigsky33]

As horrible as we feel the way this has been handled at MSU, these individuals are still innocent at this time. Also, because of MSU's so called policy of not commenting on employee matters we do not know what actions have been taken or restrictions that have been put on these guys. Yes, they were signed to new contracts, but we don't know if any stipulations were involved. I agree with posters on here that they should have been suspended until the trial is completed. I also feel they should both be terminated if found guilty. I don't think the BOR or NCAA will do anything as long as these guys are still innocent. If after the verdict and they are found guilty and MSU does nothing, then I think the BOR and NCAA may be interested. Just my take.

What have you done as a cat fan to express your displeasure? How about your buddies? Have you called the AD? Communicated your concerns to the Administrators? Contacted the BOR? Withheld season tix purchase? My guess is you've done nothing except post on your Big Bros message board.

My guess is you actually take great pleasure in watching your school with a castrated Head Coach cloak these crimes. After all...your team has a game with SDSU coming up.

Lame, weak, and soft - just like your HC and AD.

Yes, I have made my concerns known to the AD. And, I also have friends that have done the same. Also, I know of people that have taken it further. Overall, I am very unhappy with the way this has been handled to date.

 

[Da Boyz Mom]

The disparity between MSUs handling of these MULTIPLE legal infractions, and UMs handling of the Jordan Johnson 'affair' is like night and day. Yeah, yeah, employees vs student, two tiered 'justice system.' Sounds like the current Biden Administration 'Dept. of Justice.' Look at the impact the JJ affair had on the University in general, and the Athletic Dept. specifically. That was 11+ years ago, and we are STILL impacted. Here, read up on the JJ trial and its implications.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigsky/2013/03/01/montana-jordan-johnson-grizzlies-rape-trial/1958193/
Royce Engstrom: "We will not tolerate the tarnishing of the proud tradition of Grizzly athletics," he said at the time.
Phony MF!
Contrast that with what Sixx, Costello, Cruzado, Clay Christian, and the BOR are allowing to play out in Bozeman. They ALL need to go down the road, every GD one of them, along with the coaches involved. I plan on putting my two cents worth in to the BOR, and will refer this to the NCAA for any possible ACTION on their part. Sounds like willful lack of institutional control by MSU to me. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. I'll drop a turd in their pool. Does anyone remember what happened to SMU long ago? If I can spur THAT kind of response by the NCAA, I will gladly dox myself and take a bow, then fade into the sunset like Shane. :thumb:

As horrible as we feel the way this has been handled at MSU, these individuals are still innocent at this time. Also, because of MSU's so called policy of not commenting on employee matters we do not know what actions have been taken or restrictions that have been put on these guys. Yes, they were signed to new contracts, but we don't know if any stipulations were involved. I agree with posters on here that they should have been suspended until the trial is completed. I also feel they should both be terminated if found guilty. I don't think the BOR or NCAA will do anything as long as these guys are still innocent. If after the verdict and they are found guilty and MSU does nothing, then I think the BOR and NCAA may be interested. Just my take.

Being considered innocent until proven guilty and actually being innocent of a crime are two completely different things. The reality of the American Justice system is that many people who are guilty of crimes go completely unpunished for a myriad of reasons. In these two specific cases, the men's actions prove their own culpability. The university does not need to wait on a conviction in order to take action. People in these kinds of roles should behave better than this or face dismissal.

 

[bigsky33]

As horrible as we feel the way this has been handled at MSU, these individuals are still innocent at this time. Also, because of MSU's so called policy of not commenting on employee matters we do not know what actions have been taken or restrictions that have been put on these guys. Yes, they were signed to new contracts, but we don't know if any stipulations were involved. I agree with posters on here that they should have been suspended until the trial is completed. I also feel they should both be terminated if found guilty. I don't think the BOR or NCAA will do anything as long as these guys are still innocent. If after the verdict and they are found guilty and MSU does nothing, then I think the BOR and NCAA may be interested. Just my take.

Being considered innocent until proven guilty and actually being innocent of a crime are two completely different things. The reality of the American Justice system is that many people who are guilty of crimes go completely unpunished for a myriad of reasons. In these two specific cases, the men's actions prove their own culpability. The university does not need to wait on a conviction in order to take action. People in these kinds of roles should behave better than this or face dismissal.

I said they were innocent at this time as the cases have not been to court yet. Since there has not been a trial yet, I take that as they are innocent right now of any crime. MSU's position is that they wait for due process. I do not know their reasons for their policy. I agree with you they should be able to take action and maybe they have taken some. Their policy is not to comment. So, we don't know. Yes, it sucks.

 

[3-7-77]

Well, what actually happened with Garza in court?

Nothing. The hearing was postponed until August 16

Who requested the postponement, Defense or Prosecutor?
I've upped my game, by watching 'Law and Order' re-runs last night.

 

[Alaska Griz]

Being considered innocent until proven guilty and actually being innocent of a crime are two completely different things. The reality of the American Justice system is that many people who are guilty of crimes go completely unpunished for a myriad of reasons. In these two specific cases, the men's actions prove their own culpability. The university does not need to wait on a conviction in order to take action. People in these kinds of roles should behave better than this or face dismissal.

I said they were innocent at this time as the cases have not been to court yet. Since there has not been a trial yet, I take that as they are innocent right now of any crime. MSU's position is that they wait for due process. I do not know their reasons for their policy. I agree with you they should be able to take action and maybe they have taken some. Their policy is not to comment. So, we don't know. Yes, it sucks.

Except that Vigen DID comment on Willie before the three hour suspension so that he could acknowledge "something" was done before bringing him back to coach out the year. Conveniently, he has not commented on the other two since it is the offseason and he doesn't need the coaches on the field in front of cameras at the moment. That's what makes all this even more strange. It's clearly not policy, policy is just a silly word they are using to justify burying their heads in the sand. Unless you're suggesting Vigen actually violated university policy by talking about Willie's "suspension." So is Vigen in hot water too?

 

[3-7-77]

I said they were innocent at this time as the cases have not been to court yet. Since there has not been a trial yet, I take that as they are innocent right now of any crime. MSU's position is that they wait for due process. I do not know their reasons for their policy. I agree with you they should be able to take action and maybe they have taken some. Their policy is not to comment. So, we don't know. Yes, it sucks.

I have to give you credit, you are being reasonable on your rivals website. :clap: :thumb:
JJ was charged, tried, and acquitted. Engstroms plan was to have him charged, kicked out off school, tried and hung. Only the last two were in reverse order. Disparity, as I have said.