recruiting patterns

[citygriz]

it's evident from this year's recruits, and from reading msclat's blog, that we have expanded our recruiting area well beyond the northwest, and that's a welcome development, believe me. too often in the past we've been forced to pick through a relatively small population base (oregon and washington) to scuffle with idaho, boise state, portland state, montana state and eastern washington for the players not taken by oregon, oregon state, washington, washington state and gonzaga.

and if you don't think the northwest has been a target area for us, just look at the current roster--ward, johnson, staudacher, stockton, hutchison and taylor, plus the now departed moikobu. we've picked up some jewels there, especially johnson and matthews, but moikobu was a bust, stockton was only offered to walk on at washington, and i doubt any of the rest were offered by the pac ten schools. with the rise of gonzaga, and the move of ken bone to washington state, the competition for the talent just gets that much stronger.

our new class reflects the efforts to go elsewhere, primarily california, and i think this effort is going to pay dividends immediately. now that tinkle has established his credentials as a recruiter, i'm glad he's moved out to deeper waters where he's already caught some bigger fish.

 

[grizaremoregooder]

I'm the exact opposite-I know Montana is a large state with a small population but I truely wish more Montana kids could play at the University. I'm honestly not sure if Montana produces the the same kind of talent it did 30 plus years ago when our roster had a lot of Montana kids. Football is the sport of choice in this state now-basketball was in the early 80's IMO. You are correct-Coach Tinkle should get the best players he can if they are in California go get em but don't forget to look in your back yard.

 

[citygriz]

if you feel that way, grizaremoregooder, then you are definitely a fan of the lady griz.

since the program's inception in the late 70's, there have been 120 letter winners in the program. of that number, 82--or close to 70%--have come from montana. as for california, well, tianna ware from bakersfield is our fourth california recruit in the HISTORY of the program. since two of them played before 1982, it means that in the past 27 years the lady griz have had TWO players from california (crystal baird was the other.) that's equal to the number of california recruits--woods and cherry--that tinkle brought in this year.

i think if this were a laboratory experient on montana athletes you might say they can be very very good at the big sky level, as montana unquestionably has been the best program in the big sky throughout robin selvig's reign.

you might also say that except for the year that the first or second best player in the history of montana basketball--shannon cate--was a senior on the lady griz, competition against the rest of the country has been dismal--resounding first-round defeats against pitt, vanderbilt, georgia, florida, north carolina state, purdue, texas, iowa and southern california, and closer losses to texas tech, stanford and louisiana tech in the ncaa's, and to wyoming and utah in the n.i.t. thus the most vaunted program in the big sky has not won a post-season game of any kind since the 1991-92 win at wisconsin, when shannon cate was a senior.

post-seasons for the men have been equally dismal, except for a few shining moments--the victory over utah state followed by the narrow loss to u.c.l.a. in 1975, and the win over nevada three years ago. tinkle must know that if he's to duplicate any of those shining moments, he'll never do it with predominantly montana players.

 

[grizindabox]

The more I read posts by City, the more delusional I think he is. If you believe that the Griz or Lady Griz can outrecruit the bigger schools for a player, you are goofy. Looking at Big Sky women's basketball, can you seriously say that there have been many centers and point guards of the caliber that you so want the Lady Griz to recruit? Selvig recruits the areas he does becasue he has a limited recruiting budget and why spend more to recruit Cali, when you can get the same caliber of player in Montana, Idaho, and Washington. If the ladies could not keep Joslyn home, then why should you think they could recruit the type of girl you want elsewhere. I also believe that the men's program is recruiting the best kids possilble, and the reason several do not make it, is at the Big Sky level you must take a few more chances on kids to find that diamond in the rough. For each program to be successful they must find the best local kids and hope they work out. As for your continued rant about players not being redshirted in all sports....get over it. The coach is in a position to do what is best for the program currently first, and sometimes they must use a kid they may not like to for whatever reason. I get so sick of you still complaining about Heidelburger that I want to vomit. If you are having such a difficult time with how Montana runs its athletic programs, then either start rooting for someone else or start a movement to get someone else in control, preferablly a sheep or yes man so you can influence him.

 

[citygriz]

grizindabox: i sympathize with your condition. it's called "two buck upchuck", to reflect the value of citay's opinions, and the result they have on those who read them. many have become afflicted, but so far there is no known medical cure. the first amendement keeps us from shutting him down at the source, and medical research is lagging since there is so little monetary incentive for pharmecutical companies to seek a cure. the only thing we can suggest, since you insist on reading his posts, is that you hold your nose to keep the smell from triggering your upchuck mechanism, and then take a jog to work off the resultant irritation to your nervous system. citay's delusions go back to childhood, and there may be no relief from his odious opinions. p.s. heidelberger.

 

[grizindabox]

City, not the response I was expecting, and it made me laugh. I am sure that there are many kids that after-the-fact, coaches wish things could have been different, and JH is probably one of them. I also think it would be great for the basketball programs to get top talent, but Montana and the Big Sky are what they are, and I expect the teams to be the best in the conference they can, but am realistic about what to expect of them beyond that.

 

[General Disarray]

This all goes back to the Hauck v Kramer dichotomy that reached its climax a few years ago. All "mid-major" programs face it to some extent. Assuming that complete packages rarely fall to programs at this level, you have to be willing to compromise a little bit in one of the categories: pure athleticism/talent, character, and academics. Go for great character and academic guys and you're going to have a stable program, and maybe even a regional/conference power, but don't have the horses to really compete at the national level with the big boys. Go for pure athletes and talent that have character or academic issues that scared away the big time schools, and you can put together a talented team pretty quick, but you also might be looking for a job a few years down the road.

Is Cherry a complete package that truly fell through the cracks? Maybe. I don't think you can just replicate the process every year by sending a coach to CA to recruit.

 

[Spanky]

Gentlemen....we will never be able to recruit talented student-athletes until we join a credible conference. With some exceptions, the cream of the crop choose not to play in a conference made up of member schools such as The Big Sky Conference. It isn't the reputation of our school that negates recruiting quality athletes, it is the reputation of our conference.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Which one should we join?

America East Conference
Atlantic 10 Conference
Atlantic Coast Conference
Atlantic Sun Conference
Big 12 Conference
Big East Conference
Big South Conference
Big Ten Conference
Big West Conference
Colonial Athletic Association
Conference USA
Great West Conference
Horizon League
Ivy League
Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
Mid-American Conference
Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference
Missouri Valley Conference
Mountain West Conference
Northeast Conference
Ohio Valley Conference
Pacific 10 Conference
Patriot League
Southeastern Conference
Southern Conference
Southland Conference
Southwestern Athletic Conference
Sun Belt Conference
The Summit League
West Coast Conference
Western Athletic Conference

I vote we join the Metro Atlantic or the Ohio Valley. My second choices would be the Mid-American, Atlantic Sun, America East or the Mid-Eastern. Not because they play good basketball. I just think the irony would be worth it.

 

[citygriz]

my intitial issue was not one of character, since most of the kids in all our programs are of high character else i wouldn't give a damn about grizzly athletics. my issue was simply one of demographics, where i didn't feel there were enough good athletes in the relatively small pond of oregon and washington to stock as many programs as feed from that pond. california is a great lake compared to the washington-oregon pond, and our chances of catching big fish down here is greater, was my reasoning.

nor do i think it's a matter of recruiting thugs. woods is a very good student, and everybody i've spoken to has nothing but praise for will cherry''s character. a quality young man by all accounts.

hauck has it far easier on the recruiting front, because he's not up against 1-a competition. tinkle is, both pre- and post-seasons. selvig too, for that matter.

that's all.

 

[citygriz]

Which one should we join?

America East Conference
Atlantic 10 Conference
Atlantic Coast Conference
Atlantic Sun Conference
Big 12 Conference
Big East Conference
Big South Conference
Big Ten Conference
Big West Conference
Colonial Athletic Association
Conference USA
Great West Conference
Horizon League
Ivy League
Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
Mid-American Conference
Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference
Missouri Valley Conference
Mountain West Conference
Northeast Conference
Ohio Valley Conference
Pacific 10 Conference
Patriot League
Southeastern Conference
Southern Conference
Southland Conference
Southwestern Athletic Conference
Sun Belt Conference
The Summit League
West Coast Conference
Western Athletic Conference

I vote we join the Metro Atlantic or the Ohio Valley. My second choices would be the Mid-American, Atlantic Sun, America East or the Mid-Eastern. Not because they play good basketball. I just think the irony would be worth it.

caboose.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Of course you’re right, ci-tay. But I long for the days of Converse Chuck Taylors, black glasses and short shorts. I yearn for Hoosiers and school spirit and peach baskets and cheerleaders in wool sweaters and fifteen dollar bags of weed. No, I don’t really. Except for that last part.

 

[General Disarray]

Calfornia population: 36,700,000. D-I Basketball teams: 24. 1,530,000 people per D-I team.
Washington population: 6,550,000. D-I Basketball teams: 5. 1,310,000 people per D-I team.
WA/OR/ID/MT population: 12,860,000. D-I Basketball teams: 14. 918,785 people per D-I team.
Montana population: 1,000,000. D-I Basketball teams: 2. 500,000 people per D-I team.

 

[GrizBBIsKing]

...... thus the most vaunted program in the big sky has not won a post-season game of any kind since the 1991-92 win at wisconsin, when shannon cate was a senior.
....

You are so so so wrong.

the last post-season game of any kind for the Lady Griz was in 1995 at San Diego State in first round. Then they lost to Purdue by 11 points.

the Lady Griz also won a post season game in 1994 against UNLV and then lost to Stanford by 4 points.

 

[citygriz]

bb king, you are so so right. i should have known better since i went down to see the purdue game after they'd beatean s.d. state. the unlv victory i'd totally forgotten about. so our ladies have won three first-round games, v. two for the men, no? and come very close on at least three other occasions--stanford, louisiana tech, texas tech, right?

nothing a pompous ass hates worse than to be corrected on the facts--unless of course you're fox news.