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RB Wilson in the portal

AZGrizFan said:
Come on Copper, allow me to climb up on my soap box for a minute or two.

It's been a "one-way street" with employers since the '60's. Like everything else they bitch about, this isn't some NEW development--it's just new to THEM--and for many of them, the first time they've experienced failure or difficulty in life. My kids have benefits from their employers I could have only DREAMED of as a 28-30 year old.

The problem with this generation is that OUR generation, which DID struggle and suffer and saw our parents REALLY struggle and suffer, brought THEM into a world where they didn't KNOW or experience suffering. And I mean REAL suffering. I grew up the 9th of 10 kids, living in an 1800 sq foot 3-bedroom house. My dad (with an 8th grade education) worked three jobs to put food on the table--literally. Bricklayer by day, St. Pats boiler tech at night, sold insurance on the weekends. I've worked in some form or fashion since I was 12--picking garbage along the fairgrounds fence line, bucking bales, changing sprinkler pipe, whatever I could find to put a dollar in my pocket. NEVER got an allowance. Got hand-me-down clothes, bikes, shoes and Christmas presents until I was a teenager.

We never took a single vacation away from Montana until I was 13 (and several of the older kids had left home). Before that the furthest we ever got was Anaconda/Deer Lodge to stay with relatives. Not one dime from my parents for my higher education. I drove a not-so-gently used car until I was 30. NEVER have I lived alone--always had either a roommate (or two). Got married. Divorced--got another roommate. Married again. Newsflash: Two incomes are required to support a family--and it's been that way since the '70's (the ol' consumption economy thingy), not something that JUST happened, although kids today would make you try and believe that.

We (as a generation) managed to extricate ourselves from all that, become relatively successful, and bring kids into this world who NEVER suffered through any of that for the most part. So yeah, they ARE acting like grumpy old bastards for the most part, constantly bitching about how "you guys just don't understand and never had it this hard", or "I can't afford this, I can't afford that", while drinking their $8 Starbucks and surfing the internet on their $1600 iPhone, paying for DoorDash to deliver everything from that $8 Starbucks to cough medicine, subscribing to every single streaming service, driving their leased BMW and INSISTING they don't want a roommate in their 2 BR apartment to share expenses, or going into debt attending lavish bachelor/bachelorette parties and wedding showers at exotic locations because of a massive case of generational FOMO. Many of them (not all, mind you) view convenience and luxuries items as BASIC survival requirements, which is ludicrous.

So, I'm sorry, but there's ZERO sympathy from this guy--and if that makes me the "get off my lawn" dude, then so be it. I'll wear that badge with honor. If they aren't the scapegoat, their parents (you know, us boomers) CERTAINLY aren't the scapegoat they make us out to be. If we're the scapegoat for anything it's for creating this "woe is me" mindset in entire generations of kids and not prepping them for real life. THAT is our failure.

My kids will do just fine when I depart this earth. Mostly because of the way I grew up I can't envision a lifestyle where I could spend all the money I've accumulated. But if I had my druthers, I'd slide into that coffin with every credit card maxed and about $10 in my wallet.

/end rant

Now back to regularly scheduled programming.
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geezus, what is this, a wrinkled dick measuring contest? 'i suffered so much, and they all have it so easy now because i suffered so much.' ad nauseum...
 
mthoopsfan said:
Isn’t that mostly what we already have?

I liked your long post and learning you came a long way with your hard work. Impressive. I have always liked you, but now appreciate you even more.

As I may have said, my mom told me she only had enough money to come to Dartmouth once. Should she come for a game or graduation? I chose game. She was very frugal. Helped a bit with putting 5 kids through college. All have done well. Told us we were wasting money by getting her in a more assisted place in her last 6 months. Said she wasn’t worth it. I think she left $175,000 to each of us. She loved to buy things at garage sales. Said she didn’t have enough money to buy much at real stores. She had been a low level secretary. At the MSU Foundation. We had 1 car for the whole family. Always used and often clunky.
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i was right with my above post.
 
I spent 30+ years leading young people.

Service in our armed forces still provides nearly everything the current generation whines about.

It provides a purpose. It provides a debt-free education. It provides a clean path to home ownership. It provides a pension - for life, indexed to inflation. It provides a portable 401k. It provides lifetime, extraordinarily cheap healthcare. Don't like your boss - you or the boss will depart shortly. Many, many more...

For many - it provides a generational path out of poverty or less-than-ideal circumstances.

It's part of the reason I have very little patience for those who whine about work or nasty, nasty boomers...
 
SoldierGriz said:
I spent 30+ years leading young people.

Service in our armed forces still provides nearly everything the current generation whines about.

It provides a purpose. It provides a debt-free education. It provides a clean path to home ownership. It provides a pension - for life, indexed to inflation. It provides a portable 401k. It provides lifetime, extraordinarily cheap healthcare. Don't like your boss - you or the boss will depart shortly. Many, many more...

For many - it provides a generational path out of poverty or less-than-ideal circumstances.

It's part of the reason I have very little patience for those who whine about work or nasty, nasty boomers...
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The military targets those in poverty because anyone with other options knows how dysfunctional they are when developing leaders.
 
HikeGlacier said:
The military targets those in poverty because anyone with other options knows how dysfunctional they are when developing leaders.
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In my experience you statement is well known to parents during war times. It is less spoken about during times of peace. I second what SoldierGriz points out. Military service is a choice that is available to all young men/women who can qualify.
 
HikeGlacier said:
The military targets those in poverty because anyone with other options knows how dysfunctional they are when developing leaders.
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My son wasn't in poverty when he went into the Army and became a Ranger, and deployed twice to Iraq. Two of my nephews weren't in poverty. One from a family worth 9 figures. One from a family with all 4 kids graduating from college, and the family having 3 houses (actually 4, with one rented).
 
I have a close friend who served in the Marines and it worked out great for him - it gave him a sense of purpose in life and now he's getting a free education. But talking to him about it, he also revealed to me just how many of the people he served with ended up dead during service or suicidal afterwards because they were suffering from horrific PTSD, or alcoholism, or they were just simply unable to function in civilian society because they no longer had a rigid routine to follow. He showed me some of his text chats where he had to talk others off the ledge, and they were incredibly bleak. Oddly enough, the recruiting commercials never show that sort of thing.

Just my two cents (well, his). He speaks positively of his own time in the military and says it's the best decision he made in his life, but is also careful to mention that there's nothing honorable about it and he absolutely hates it when anyone says "thank you for your service." It's like any other career but the stakes are higher and some people end up with permanent damage.
 
argh! said:
geezus, what is this, a wrinkled dick measuring contest? 'i suffered so much, and they all have it so easy now because i suffered so much.' ad nauseum...
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I never said it was because I suffered. But I did say we did them a disservice by not allowing them to face adversity. Never lost, never kept score, trophies for everyone, more positive encouragement than you can shake a stick at…all to wind up in the real world and find out many times its stacked against you…and there they are with little/no coping skills except to piss and moan “it’s not fair!” And “you don’t understand!”
 
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HikeGlacier said:
The military targets those in poverty because anyone with other options knows how dysfunctional they are when developing leaders.
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The best (and worst) leaders I ever encountered were in the military. Like any other profession there are some phenomenal people and some not so phenomenal people. I found that, to a large extent, their socioeconomic background had VERY little to do with which camp they fell in.

So, yet another swing and miss by you.
 
UnderratedWalrus said:
I have a close friend who served in the Marines and it worked out great for him - it gave him a sense of purpose in life and now he's getting a free education. But talking to him about it, he also revealed to me just how many of the people he served with ended up dead during service or suicidal afterwards because they were suffering from horrific PTSD, or alcoholism, or they were just simply unable to function in civilian society because they no longer had a rigid routine to follow. He showed me some of his text chats where he had to talk others off the ledge, and they were incredibly bleak. Oddly enough, the recruiting commercials never show that sort of thing.

Just my two cents (well, his). He speaks positively of his own time in the military and says it's the best decision he made in his life, but is also careful to mention that there's nothing honorable about it and he absolutely hates it when anyone says "thank you for your service." It's like any other career but the stakes are higher and some people end up with permanent damage.
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There is no such thing as free! If you are on active duty and getting an education, you have earned it!
 
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AZGrizFan said:
I guess that’s my point. Those that want to (or are willing to) work hard and do what it takes WILL be successful. A better life IS possible, but they have to want it bad enough to do the dirty work that’s required.

My kids (31, 28) have good work ethics, but they never have been forced to struggle. I’m not sure that builds “strong” people…Their starting point vs the starting point of most people in the ‘70’s and early ‘80’s is like night and day…but they just don’t see it that way. And there’s not really any way to fix that, I suppose.

Peace.
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Struggles don’t necessarily build strong people but they will weed out the weak.
 
UnderratedWalrus said:
I have a close friend who served in the Marines and it worked out great for him - it gave him a sense of purpose in life and now he's getting a free education. But talking to him about it, he also revealed to me just how many of the people he served with ended up dead during service or suicidal afterwards because they were suffering from horrific PTSD, or alcoholism, or they were just simply unable to function in civilian society because they no longer had a rigid routine to follow. He showed me some of his text chats where he had to talk others off the ledge, and they were incredibly bleak. Oddly enough, the recruiting commercials never show that sort of thing.

Just my two cents (well, his). He speaks positively of his own time in the military and says it's the best decision he made in his life, but is also careful to mention that there's nothing honorable about it and he absolutely hates it when anyone says "thank you for your service." It's like any other career but the stakes are higher and some people end up with permanent damage.
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Thanks for posting. You won't find cookie cutter results of service - different for all of us.

I have friends who can't pull it together fully and I have friends who are thriving.

All or nearly all of my retired friends passed their GI Bill to their children...giving them nearly debt free educations. So much good from their sacrifices.

Vets know the vast majority of the Nation is thankful for our service. People often look for ways to show it and thanks is often the result.

I always appreciate the sentiment when someone thanks me... but I rarely know how to respond...it can be awkward for some.
 
AZGrizFan said:
The best (and worst) leaders I ever encountered were in the military. Like any other profession there are some phenomenal people and some not so phenomenal people. I found that, to a large extent, their socioeconomic background had VERY little to do with which camp they fell in.

So, yet another swing and miss by you.
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Do some research before you post dumb stuff.
 
AZGrizFan said:
I never said it was because I suffered. But I did say we did them a disservice by not allowing them to face adversity. Never lost, never kept score, trophies for everyone, more positive encouragement than you can shake a stick at…all to wind up in the real world and find out many times its stacked against you…and there they are with little/no coping skills except to piss and moan “it’s not fair!” And “you don’t understand!”
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My son, young elementary aged, is playing flag football and I have to say I’ve been pleasantly surprised with how they’re doing it. They keep track of the scores for every game, they have an actual standings column tracking how each team is doing. The two best teams get to meet in a championship game, the coaches are obviously encouraging, but also not hiding that they want to win. I think it’s great to let young kids get an actual taste of what winning and losing feels like. Being competitive is important. Working hard is important. As a mid 30’s individual, I think too many from my age group aren’t willing to work hard to get what they want. Most of them think 40 hours a week is actually a lot of work. I just don’t have a lot of respect for that.
 
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