Random Notes from a Binge-Watching Saturday

[PlayerRep]

I said nothing about size of the UM guards. You need to work on your reading skills. I said they dribble too much, in my view, and they do.

Parker didn't start. He has a nice 3-pt FG percentage, but made only 19 3-pointers for the entire season, or .68 per game. I think Curry makes more than that. That's not Power 5 Backcourt to me.

Beasley, a starter by end of season, shot 37.8% from 3, made 1.1 3's per game, and had 22 assists on 28 TO. That's not Power 5 Backcourt to me.

Vasquez didn't start the last 8 games of season. He shot 46% from 3. That's good. Made 41, or 1.46 per game. 2.27 assist to TO ratio. That is good too. Need to be starter to be Power 5 Backcourt to me.

Whitney, a starter, shot 31% from 3 and made 14 for the season. Assist to TO ratio was 1.25. That's not Power 5 Backcourt to me.

Egun shot 35% from 3 and made 13 for the season. 11 assists to 20 TO. That's not Power 5 Backcourt to me.

Seems to me that a Power 5 backcourt would have some Big Sky all-conference players. Think Power 5 Backcourt starters would have had more than 45 made 3's between them.

I like the Griz guards, and think they will keep getting better. If I goofed up a stat, feel free to correct.

P.S. On inside info. I sure don't see any from you. Did you know that Satterwhite thought everything should be handed to him and wasn't willing to work for it. And that's why it didn't work out at UM for him. Didn't see you post that. If someone else posted it, I missed it. How about Timmy Falls? Who posted better info on his departure? Did you even play high school basketball?

Let's go back and look at what you deleted from your post--your earlier response to Az.

"My view too. And I still think our guards dribble too much to get nowhere, and aren't big/strong enough to compete on a bigger stage. If they were better 3-pt shooters, their drives would open up and they would be good and more consistent scorers. They are young and have time for their games to improve."

--So you say of our guards, "They aren't big/strong enough to compete on a bigger stage." How can you say you never questioned their size when it's right there in your own words? Denying you said what you JUST SAID is quite a sleight-of-hand coming from an attorney.

--I don't care if Parker didn't start; he played a ton of minutes. And his three-point percentage, like Vazquez's, was outstanding. Beasely's percentage is just fine as well.

--So what if they didn't make that many three's? That's not on them; that's on the SYSTEM. I have been railing all year about a system that absolutely suffocates our guards, turns them from kids who confidently take the first open shot to constantly try for a better shot, only to drive into traffic and turn the ball over. Legans is a modern-day coach; Travis is not. I can't blame our kids for that.

--All our guards are outstanding free-throw shooters. Generally, good free-throw shooters are good all-round shooters as well.

--We played four pre-season games against Power 5 teams. I thought our guards played exceptionally well in all those games. Whitney 17 against S.C.; Beasely 17 against Arizona. Vazquez was double digits in a couple of those games and essentially made the shot that beat Washington. Also won raves from the Arizona announcing crew. It still galls me that after his great game against Idaho he didn't start against Weber.

--You say none is all league. Tough to do when there's a five-guard rotation, and four of our kids are underclassmen. But do you want to bet me that at least one won't be all-league before their career is over?

Saying we have a Power Five Backcourt is one of the dumbest comments ever made on egriz. Hey, the discussion was about the Griz guards this year, not in the future. As I said, I like the Griz guards. I liked Cherry, Oguine and Jamar much better. Yes, the guards are good free throw shooters. They don’t get fouled enough to make that enough if their game. Also, big three point shooters have to make way more 3 point shots than our guys did this year. Let’s hear more about your basketball career.

 

[CleanHOUSE]

I’ve watched about 20 basketball games in the past three days. I did not see one single team I thought the Griz could hang with. Not one (including EWU). So, not sure what Citay was watching, but we are light years from where we need to be to compete in this tournament.

I sort of agree, but I think we would "hang in there" by virtue of playing hard on D and using the whole shot clock every possession, HOWEVER hanging in there and having a chance to win are different things, keeping it within in 10-12 points is great but if you are incapable of any high powered hot shooting offensive run, you might as well be down by 30pts.

As far as the talk about a Power 5 backcourt,...nah (not this year anyway) they good for BSC but a bit undersized and don't make up the difference by being elite drivers or shooters.

Take away from the tournament Teams Take Open Shots. I find myself saying NO you can't take that wide open shot the shot clock just started drive in half way then turn it around and pass it back out pointlessly first!

 

[PlayerRep]

I said nothing about size of the UM guards. You need to work on your reading skills. I said they dribble too much, in my view, and they do.

Parker didn't start. He has a nice 3-pt FG percentage, but made only 19 3-pointers for the entire season, or .68 per game. I think Curry makes more than that. That's not Power 5 Backcourt to me.

Beasley, a starter by end of season, shot 37.8% from 3, made 1.1 3's per game, and had 22 assists on 28 TO. That's not Power 5 Backcourt to me.

Vasquez didn't start the last 8 games of season. He shot 46% from 3. That's good. Made 41, or 1.46 per game. 2.27 assist to TO ratio. That is good too. Need to be starter to be Power 5 Backcourt to me.

Whitney, a starter, shot 31% from 3 and made 14 for the season. Assist to TO ratio was 1.25. That's not Power 5 Backcourt to me.

Egun shot 35% from 3 and made 13 for the season. 11 assists to 20 TO. That's not Power 5 Backcourt to me.

Seems to me that a Power 5 backcourt would have some Big Sky all-conference players. Think Power 5 Backcourt starters would have had more than 45 made 3's between them.

I like the Griz guards, and think they will keep getting better. If I goofed up a stat, feel free to correct.

P.S. On inside info. I sure don't see any from you. Did you know that Satterwhite thought everything should be handed to him and wasn't willing to work for it. And that's why it didn't work out at UM for him. Didn't see you post that. If someone else posted it, I missed it. How about Timmy Falls? Who posted better info on his departure? Did you even play high school basketball?

Let's go back and look at what you deleted from your post--your earlier response to Az.

"My view too. And I still think our guards dribble too much to get nowhere, and aren't big/strong enough to compete on a bigger stage. If they were better 3-pt shooters, their drives would open up and they would be good and more consistent scorers. They are young and have time for their games to improve."

--So you say of our guards, "They aren't big/strong enough to compete on a bigger stage." How can you say you never questioned their size when it's right there in your own words? Denying you said what you JUST SAID is quite a sleight-of-hand coming from an attorney.

--I don't care if Parker didn't start; he played a ton of minutes. And his three-point percentage, like Vazquez's, was outstanding. Beasely's percentage is just fine as well.

--So what if they didn't make that many three's? That's not on them; that's on the SYSTEM. I have been railing all year about a system that absolutely suffocates our guards, turns them from kids who confidently take the first open shot to constantly try for a better shot, only to drive into traffic and turn the ball over. Legans is a modern-day coach; Travis is not. I can't blame our kids for that.

--All our guards are outstanding free-throw shooters. Generally, good free-throw shooters are good all-round shooters as well.

--We played four pre-season games against Power 5 teams. I thought our guards played exceptionally well in all those games. Whitney 17 against S.C.; Beasely 17 against Arizona. Vazquez was double digits in a couple of those games and essentially made the shot that beat Washington. Also won raves from the Arizona announcing crew. It still galls me that after his great game against Idaho he didn't start against Weber.

--You say none is all league. Tough to do when there's a five-guard rotation, and four of our kids are underclassmen. But do you want to bet me that at least one won't be all-league before their career is over?

And I suppose I should have said height, which is what you seemed to be talking about, instead of size. I was meaning mostly strength. Not height, although a much taller player could perhaps counter lack of strength. And compete on a bigger stage was meant to mean start for a top program. Note that Parker transferred from Chicago-Loyola for some reason. I assume he didn't think he'd be a starter there this year. Loyola isn't Power 5 either.

 

[UMFan12]

Let's go back and look at what you deleted from your post--your earlier response to Az.

"My view too. And I still think our guards dribble too much to get nowhere, and aren't big/strong enough to compete on a bigger stage. If they were better 3-pt shooters, their drives would open up and they would be good and more consistent scorers. They are young and have time for their games to improve."

--So you say of our guards, "They aren't big/strong enough to compete on a bigger stage." How can you say you never questioned their size when it's right there in your own words? Denying you said what you JUST SAID is quite a sleight-of-hand coming from an attorney.

--I don't care if Parker didn't start; he played a ton of minutes. And his three-point percentage, like Vazquez's, was outstanding. Beasely's percentage is just fine as well.

--So what if they didn't make that many three's? That's not on them; that's on the SYSTEM. I have been railing all year about a system that absolutely suffocates our guards, turns them from kids who confidently take the first open shot to constantly try for a better shot, only to drive into traffic and turn the ball over. Legans is a modern-day coach; Travis is not. I can't blame our kids for that.

--All our guards are outstanding free-throw shooters. Generally, good free-throw shooters are good all-round shooters as well.

--We played four pre-season games against Power 5 teams. I thought our guards played exceptionally well in all those games. Whitney 17 against S.C.; Beasely 17 against Arizona. Vazquez was double digits in a couple of those games and essentially made the shot that beat Washington. Also won raves from the Arizona announcing crew. It still galls me that after his great game against Idaho he didn't start against Weber.

--You say none is all league. Tough to do when there's a five-guard rotation, and four of our kids are underclassmen. But do you want to bet me that at least one won't be all-league before their career is over?

And I suppose I should have said height, which is what you seemed to be talking about, instead of size. I was meaning mostly strength. Not height, although a much taller player could perhaps counter lack of strength. And compete on a bigger stage was meant to mean start for a top program. Note that Parker transferred from Chicago-Loyola for some reason. I assume he didn't think he'd be a starter there this year. Loyola isn't Power 5 either.

Parker transferred from Sacred Heart. Satterwhite transferred to NAU from Loyola Chicago, and then here from NAU. Strength comes with years in the weigh room. By the time these guys are seniors, they will be able to hold their own. In my opinion, Beasley showed visible improvement in that category mid season.

 

[GrizBall]

[/quote]
Note that Parker transferred from Chicago-Loyola for some reason. I assume he didn't think he'd be a starter there this year. Loyola isn't Power 5 either.
[/quote]

This is incorrect. It was Satterwhite who transferred like 3 years ago from Loyola to NAU.

Gonzaga is not Power 5 either. Loyola has been to just as many Final fours as Gonzaga.

Villanova’s not Power 5 either and they have won more recent championships than the PAC-12 combined.

 

[grizindabox]

Villanova’s not Power 5 either and they have won more recent championships than the PAC-12 combined.

P5 is such a football term. CBB is major and mid-major, and Villanova is major all the way.

 

[PlayerRep]

And I suppose I should have said height, which is what you seemed to be talking about, instead of size. I was meaning mostly strength. Not height, although a much taller player could perhaps counter lack of strength. And compete on a bigger stage was meant to mean start for a top program. Note that Parker transferred from Chicago-Loyola for some reason. I assume he didn't think he'd be a starter there this year. Loyola isn't Power 5 either.

Parker transferred from Sacred Heart. Satterwhite transferred to NAU from Loyola Chicago, and then here from NAU. Strength comes with years in the weigh room. By the time these guys are seniors, they will be able to hold their own. In my opinion, Beasley showed visible improvement in that category mid season.

Oops, thanks on correcting to Sacred Heart and the full info. But my point is still valid. Oguine and Jamar presumably got stronger after getting to UM, but they also came in bigger/stronger than this season's guards.

 

[Mousegriz]

Give it a couple years and you’ll see why Beasley was as highly recruited as he was. And give TDC a couple years to get some frontcourt depth and you’ll see why people continue to say we have a bright future with our current roster. And by the two Spokane kids, do you happen to mean the ones that both had just 1 D1 offer out of high school, and were in Legans backyard?

Where there's Mousegriz there's mouse turds.

As to the Spokane kids....yes I do mean those two who only had one offer. Missoula ain't too far away and if you are saying there is no way Griz get them then so be it. I don't now for sure that Griz didn't recruit them. But I'd make pretty good wager their phone didn't ring once. Does one offer mean they were projects?....probably...and we know how Travis and big man projects go. He gets rid of them and is left with 3's and small 4's trying to play center....getting worked over by "projects".

Griz guards are good.....not arguing that. I've seen lots of good guards on all kinds of teams all year long. Lots of teams even have good big guys that aren't playing out of position.

 

[Hoops watcher]

Have another bong 12 and Citay! If I have to read about how great our guards and new recruits are for the next 8 or 9 months I'm going to puke. Griz will not compete with p5 teams until they recruit bigger guards forwards and centers. EWU played Kansas tough due to size and strength. Griz would have lost by 30+. Early season close calls are misleading. EWU and two Spokane kids Travis never even thought to recruit are the biggest differences between Griz and EWU. Citay and his drum pounding are getting monotonous!

Here are my takeaways from the EWU/KU game:

1. KU was coming directly off of a COVID pause. They had to withdraw from the Big 12 tournament just a week prior.

2. One of KU starters was not there and their best big man didn't start due to getting to the site late because he had COVID. He came off the bench and had 22pts in 25 mins.

3. During the season, the Groves brothers made an average of one 3 pointer per game - COMBINED. They combined for 6 in the first half and 9 total for the game. This more than anything is why they played Kansas tough.

4. EWU's starting guards against KU were Jack Perry (6'2 175) and Michael Meadows (6'2 175). A 3rd starter Jacob Groves is listed at 6'7 185. Their seventh man was Jacob Davison listed at 6'4 175. So not sure where all the superior size and strength is coming from. Kim Aiken may be listed as a guard, but he's not.

Obviously not taking anything away from EWU, but playing a KU team at full strength in a 7 game series would be a 4 game sweep with the average margin of victory 25+. Like many NCAA upsets though, EWU was scorching when it counted so props to them.

Recruiting and talent evaluation are not an exact science. Look at how many 1st round NBA busts there are, where there are 2nd round picks that go on to be all-stars. Look at how many five-star kids flounder. Always easy to go back in hindsight. And has anyone been able to verify that Montana didn't recruit the Groves brothers or are you just speculating? If trades were allowable in college basketball, would you trade Bannan straight up for Jacob Groves? I wouldn't. You don't think there are schools kicking themselves right now for not going harder after Beasley and Whitney? It's just the way recruiting goes.

Where I do think EWU's recruiting philosophy is interesting is that they bring in guys with the sole intent on redshirting them. They have 10 players on their team that have been redshirted. That makes a big difference later on based on age, strength and time in the system. I often wonder why more schools don't bring in projects with their last scholarship or two particularly with big men.

Good point on red shirting raw prospects.

 

[Dillon]

My take? It’s EWU’s conference to lose the next 2-3 years.

Hell - EWU may be DII by then! :roll:

 

[AZGrizFan]

Here are my takeaways from the EWU/KU game:

1. KU was coming directly off of a COVID pause. They had to withdraw from the Big 12 tournament just a week prior.

2. One of KU starters was not there and their best big man didn't start due to getting to the site late because he had COVID. He came off the bench and had 22pts in 25 mins.

3. During the season, the Groves brothers made an average of one 3 pointer per game - COMBINED. They combined for 6 in the first half and 9 total for the game. This more than anything is why they played Kansas tough.

4. EWU's starting guards against KU were Jack Perry (6'2 175) and Michael Meadows (6'2 175). A 3rd starter Jacob Groves is listed at 6'7 185. Their seventh man was Jacob Davison listed at 6'4 175. So not sure where all the superior size and strength is coming from. Kim Aiken may be listed as a guard, but he's not.

Obviously not taking anything away from EWU, but playing a KU team at full strength in a 7 game series would be a 4 game sweep with the average margin of victory 25+. Like many NCAA upsets though, EWU was scorching when it counted so props to them.

Recruiting and talent evaluation are not an exact science. Look at how many 1st round NBA busts there are, where there are 2nd round picks that go on to be all-stars. Look at how many five-star kids flounder. Always easy to go back in hindsight. And has anyone been able to verify that Montana didn't recruit the Groves brothers or are you just speculating? If trades were allowable in college basketball, would you trade Bannan straight up for Jacob Groves? I wouldn't. You don't think there are schools kicking themselves right now for not going harder after Beasley and Whitney? It's just the way recruiting goes.

Where I do think EWU's recruiting philosophy is interesting is that they bring in guys with the sole intent on redshirting them. They have 10 players on their team that have been redshirted. That makes a big difference later on based on age, strength and time in the system. I often wonder why more schools don't bring in projects with their last scholarship or two particularly with big men.

In a normal year I would agree with this assessment. This was not a normal year for KU. They were “down” and not their usual dominant selves this year...I don’t think EWU’s hanging with them was an anomaly, in fact I predicted an EWU victory prior to the tourney starting when I saw they were matched up. I follow Big12 basketball very closely being a Texas Tech fan, and KU did nothing to impress me this year. In fact, I think EWU would have stood up well against almost all Big-12 teams this year except Baylor...don’t think the games would have been as close, but it wouldn’t have been a blowout like MT has experienced in recent trips to the dance.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Where there's Mousegriz there's mouse turds.

As to the Spokane kids....yes I do mean those two who only had one offer. Missoula ain't too far away and if you are saying there is no way Griz get them then so be it. I don't now for sure that Griz didn't recruit them. But I'd make pretty good wager their phone didn't ring once. Does one offer mean they were projects?....probably...and we know how Travis and big man projects go. He gets rid of them and is left with 3's and small 4's trying to play center....getting worked over by "projects".

What a great assessment.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I’ve watched about 20 basketball games in the past three days. I did not see one single team I thought the Griz could hang with. Not one (including EWU). So, not sure what Citay was watching, but we are light years from where we need to be to compete in this tournament.

I sort of agree, but I think we would "hang in there" by virtue of playing hard on D and using the whole shot clock every possession, HOWEVER hanging in there and having a chance to win are different things, keeping it within in 10-12 points is great but if you are incapable of any high powered hot shooting offensive run, you might as well be down by 30pts.

As far as the talk about a Power 5 backcourt,...nah (not this year anyway) they good for BSC but a bit undersized and don't make up the difference by being elite drivers or shooters.

That “use the whole shot clock” strategy hasn’t worked very well in recent trips to the dance, save one 7-minute stretch opening against Michigan....