Question for insiders?

[HelenaHandBasket]

This "A rule of thumb: nothing you say to anyone is ever "off the record." For that reason, no one off-staff is really going to get "the skinny."" is complete bullshit. If you're a good reporter you can absolutely get the "skinny"

Careful with the "complete bullshit" talk there junior. I just sent in my $90 to read your stuff, but I can still cancel. I'm not here to insult you, and you can zip the tough talk in that regard. As a former sports reporter and sports editor, I know exactly how it works, and likely better than you do.

There are some things you might know, but can't "report" because you will lose your source. So, you're worthless in your job. It's also a matter of different experience that there is nothing to be gained by saying anything to you or anybody else that would damage the speaker or the program if it "got out," so experience says: "why say it in the first place?"

Last year, I made the gentle suggestion to you that, as a reporter, you might get information about Stitt's precise payout last year, because he was required to file a report with the President's Office, for instance. Go over and ask to see it, I advised. Other reporters do it. You didn't because you didn't want to offend your source.

You may think you can get the "skinny." Good for you. I find players are a good source. But a coach is not going jeopardize his positive public relations by telling you anything meaningful or damaging "off the record" simply because there is nothing to gain from it. Jud Heathcote was great for "confiding" inside information, "now, don't tell anybody," and make you feel all good and important, then you'd find out later that everybody knew it. It was funny in Jud's unique way.

In my career in Journalism, ending at the Managing Editor position, I found that young sports reporters were a gullible lot. They generally reported sports because they loved sports. They wrote free press releases for the Athletic Department. Nothing wrong with that. It's exciting to cover, and some fine writing can come out of it. But, they were incapable of true journalism, investigative journalism, and so those assignments always went to other reporters. And by "incapable" I mean it was structurally nearly impossible and that was just practicality; as one hapless journalist and publication found out from Bobby Hauck. Offend the coach: you're out of the loop. Ask your boss about publishing "insider" information about the "Coach's actions" and the nice things that then happen to you at press conferences.

Try that for "skinny."

What a prick.

What a Troll Brigader. You are the dick. You add nothing to the board. 75 makes a well-written post, and that's all you've got. Get out of here with you BS. You muck up the board.

You are right. I misspoke. It should read "condescending prick"

 

[UMGriz75]

Damn...glad you weren't trying to insult him.

It's a reality check. Typically, I've complimented his sports coverage and work at the Missoulian. Been very positive about him and his writing. And I did so as a former practicing Journalist and sports reporter in a position to have an objective and informed opinion. But when despite that record, when he feels some need to insult me personally, completely gratuitously, well, good luck with that. He will quickly lose his supporters with that horseshit attitude. I paid $90 to get good writing, not to be personally insulted. I mean, wow, some people just "have a way ...".

Sometimes the "young" have a confidence and arrogance about what they "think" they know. As Mark Twain said, paraphrasing, "My Dad was a complete idiot when I was 14. I was amazed how much he had learned by the time I was 21." Perhaps Kyle will settle down and not feel the need to offer hyperactive insults regarding the experiences of more experienced people in the world.

 

[UMGriz75]

What a prick.

You are right. I misspoke. It should read "condescending prick"

It's not just the classic "irony alert," it's what's wrong with egriz.

Who wants to bother when horseshit trollers like HelenaHandBasket follow their perceived "enemies" around from thread to thread. It's like waking up in bed with Richard Nixon next to you every read.

Moderators, do you actually want a functioning sports forum?

 

[casewinter13]

Lol you are absolutely unreal to me. You actually seem to be intelligent, yet the irony in your use of the word irony is...ironical. You can't be this clueless, can you?

You could have 200 fucking years of experience in journalism and it doesn't mean you have any clue what Kyle has been told by the coaches. I know for a fact he's been told several very private pieces of information that he was asked not to share until a certain time, if ever, and out of respect, he did so. These weren't things every Joe Blow knew, it was serious dirt. I don't know Kyle well personally, but I do know he's done a good job of grinding out info many others haven't. Junior, as you call him, is just sick of how comically condescending and void of self awareness you are. Just like every single other poster on this board, save for your bf pr. And like the rest, I'm forced to ignore you again.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[UMGriz75]

I know for a fact he's been told several very private pieces of information that he was asked not to share until a certain time, if ever, and out of respect, he did so. These weren't things every Joe Blow knew, it was serious dirt.

Coaches in the public education system handing out "serious dirt?" "Very private" information?

I'd say that's a problem, not a feature. That's not what they're paid to do. Indeed, those would be violations of specific University policies on personnel matters, subjecting the University to liability. If you are claiming that Kyle is complicit in violating University policy and State policy, I'd say "Houston, we have a problem."

I've never had a coach "want" to share "serious dirt" with me. Just doesn't ring true for all sorts of reasons. For starters, in a collegiate athletic setting, I would lose respect for that coach. It's not a positive.

I can only assume that your hyperbolic reaction is false. I like his writing. I doubt he has conspired with coaches or staff to violate University policy and State law as you claim. It's a serious charge. I guess stranger things have happened, however. It's certainly something I never participated in as a sports reporter, nor would I have countenanced it as an editor.

It's an odd claim.

Among other items, if you don't know him, how do you know he was given information he was asked to "never share?" How does that work?

 

[casewinter13]

I know for a fact he's been told several very private pieces of information that he was asked not to share until a certain time, if ever, and out of respect, he did so. These weren't things every Joe Blow knew, it was serious dirt.

Coaches in the public education system handing out "serious dirt?" "Very private" information?

I'd say that's a problem, not a feature. That's not what they're paid to do. Indeed, those would be violations of specific University policies on personnel matters, subjecting the University to liability. If you are claiming that Kyle is complicit in violating University policy and State policy, I'd say "Houston, we have a problem."

I've never had a coach "want" to share "serious dirt" with me. Just doesn't ring true for all sorts of reasons. For starters, in a collegiate athletic setting, I would lose respect for that coach. It's not a positive.

I can only assume that your hyperbolic reaction is false. I like his writing. I doubt he has conspired with coaches or staff to violate University policy and State law as you claim. It's a serious charge. I guess stranger things have happened, however. It's certainly something I never participated in as a sports reporter, nor would I have countenanced it as an editor.

It's an odd claim.

Among other items, if you don't know him, how do you know he was given information he was asked to "never share?" How does that work?

You can label it however you wish, I didn't claim it was smart, legal or anything else, I only pointed out that I know it has happened.

Furthermore, speaking of hyperbolic responses, I didn't say anything that was shared was illegal, drama queen, only "dirt" that coaches wouldn't want out in public, at least not until they give the go ahead.

For a former journalist, you proofread for shit. I didn't say I didn't know Kyle. I said I didn't know him well. And even if I didn't know a thing about him, conversations often include two or more people, would you agree? I wouldn't be required to know Kyle at all to know if he was told something by the coaches, would I? See how that works? Jesus, why respond if you're going to whiff that bad on all points? Did you just feel a desperate need to hyperventilate and toss out words like "State" and "Law" together in a sentence to impress everyone? One guy on a board of hundreds or thousands likes you, the rest can't stand you...who are you trying to impress?

And can we please fix the ignore function to include ignoring ALL comments by blocked posters?

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[mtgrizrule]

This is a great subject.

In my opinion, it depends on the level of relationship you build with a coach, over time. I was fortunate. When Krystkowiak took over as GRIZ basketball coach, and Tinkle as his assistant, I personally congratulated each, and told then how great it was to have former GRIZ leading the program again. LK and WT, were very cordial and appreciative of my comments. They not only thanked me, but told me they could use help earning back fans, and needed help for upcoming summer camps. I was surprised how sincere and open they were. I asked about the camps and volunteered to work the camps.

I worked the camps for several years. In time, I earned their trust. Wayne then took over. He gave me more responsibility at camps. He even heard about some tough times I had gone through down in Denver. I visited him, he gave me encouragement, as a friend would. As for his basketball team, any time I stopped in to visit him. He did not hesitate to answer any questions I had. He was always open about the frustrations of scheduling, recruiting, strategies, etc. His coaching camps were amazing as well. LK and WT, never put a dollar value on what they were or were not willing to share. It was honestly, if they liked you and trusted you, or not. Travis is also very cordial, just not as forthcoming as LK or WT. The little I have spoken to Travis, he has been pretty open. His staff and players are also terrific.

As for football, I did get to know Bobby a little. He honestly treated me well and with respect. I also enjoyed his dry sense of humor and his hatred for the Cats. Pflugrad was great to shoot the shit with about offense. I really did not get to know Delaney as head coach. I have spoken to coach Stitt a few times. The 1st time, he could have talked x's and o's forever, and never a boring moment. The man is so passionate about football and what he wants to accomplish as GRIZ coach. He does not shy away from talking strategy, or his believes. He does play injuries close to the vest though.

After reading the comments here on Semore, I sure in the hell want to bullshit with him about defensive football. I absolutely love his aggressiveness, attitude, and faith he has in his players.

With all that, if any of you ever do have the privilege of becoming friends with a coach of any team, respect that trust, and keep things confidential that they want kept confidential. By the way, the coaches and players also very much appreciate the support of fans, and those who defend them, and promote their team. Wayne and even Travis, have taken the time to personally thank me for promoting their teams in a positive way. Yes, they do get word of what is being said, good and bad on EGRIZ. Yes, we should be careful what we post online.

 

[UMGriz75]

casewinter13: you specifically claimed that coaches in the University system shared "serious dirt" and "very private" information with Kyle Sample, and in turn appear to allege that he for some reason shared that knowledge with you, even though in some cases sworn to "never" disclose the information.

I've operated under the University system's personnel disclosure guidelines for a very many years. I know what they are. I've dealt with varsity coaches in general for more years than that.

I'm calling bullshit.

Dial up Kyle for the meaning of the word.

 

[mtgrizrule]

casewinter13: you specifically claimed that coaches in the University system shared "serious dirt" and "very private" information with Kyle Sample, and in turn appear to allege that he for some reason shared that knowledge with you, even though in some cases sworn to "never" disclose the information.

I've operated under the University system's personnel disclosure guidelines for a very many years. I know what they are. I've dealt with varsity coaches in general for more years than that.

I'm calling bullshit.

Dial up Kyle for the meaning of the word.

All due respect, don't stir it up here. If you have a problem with it, just pm them here. This kind of crap turns into hijacked threads, derailed threads, then locked threads. :thumb:

 

[UMGriz75]

With all that, if any of you ever do have the privilege of becoming friends with a coach of any team, respect that trust, and keep things confidential that they want kept confidential. By the way, the coaches and players also very much appreciate the support of fans, and those who defend them, and promote their team. Wayne and even Travis, have taken the time to personally thank me for promoting their teams in a positive way. Yes, they do get word of what is being said, good and bad on EGRIZ. Yes, we should be careful what we post online.

Absolutely. The whole point of fabricating "insider" information to support the credibility of certain posters who constantly allude to their credentials, needs to be destroyed in favor of the fact that, for the most part, coaches are not driving conspiracy theories, "dirt" or "secrets" that they only share with people or journalists they barely know. That is the currency of egriz, but it is a thoroughly corrupted currency.

I've been around UM a long time. I've known nearly every one here for the better part of 45 years. I am still on campus just about every day. I am sick to death of the poseurs and dilettantes who pretend to know "all about" UM or football or sports. Wayne used to stop by on his "runs" usually while I was watering the front lawn. I was a good rest-stop on his runs, and we'd shoot the breeze. He never offered any "dirt" as some of these jerks now claim that UM coaches are in the "business" of. Travis and staff were down at Worden's last week for lunch. Don't recall any "dirt" being shared. That's not these people, and if Kyle Sample is implying, through his frontman, that they are, let me register my firm objection. I am also cancelling by subscription.

Some of these posters are an insult to UM athletics and UM coaching staff. But, "egriz" itself is becoming an insult to UM athletics and UM coaching staff by allowing the trolls to control the threads.

 

[UMGriz75]

All due respect, don't stir it up here. If you have a problem with it, just pm them here. This kind of crap turns into hijacked threads, derailed threads, then locked threads. :thumb:

I think you need to respond to the trolls that claim that UM coaches share "dirt" and "very private" information and the trolls that make those claims on a public forum. UM coaches don't do that. Aside from University and State policy, they are classier than that. That needs to be said publicly.

I don't care what Kyle Sample allegedly told people that also admit they don't know him well and for which there is no plausible or possible reason for him to "share" that piece of slander.

 

[mtgrizrule]

All due respect, don't stir it up here. If you have a problem with it, just pm them here. This kind of crap turns into hijacked threads, derailed threads, then locked threads. :thumb:

I think you need to respond to the trolls that claim that UM coaches share "dirt" and "very private" information and the trolls that make those claims on a public forum. UM coaches don't do that. Aside from University and State policy, they are classier than that. That needs to be said publicly.

I don't care what Kyle Sample allegedly told people that also admit they don't know him well and for which there is no plausible or possible reason for him to "share" that piece of slander.

It depends on one's definition of "dirt". I very much doubt coaches share if someone is innocent or guilty, what discipline will be, or any specifics. Do I think it is possible, they may ask for input on particular situations in some regards, once something is made public knowledge? Yes, I do. I know coaches care about reputation and public image of their programs. Some coaches will ask some, how do you think this option will be perceived by the fans or general public? I also know the likes of LK, WT and TD deeply care about every player that commits to their program, regardless if it is a walk on or scholarship player. When something negative in nature does happen, every GRIZ coach 1st priority is believing the best in their player in question. It is natural for a coach to instinctively defend a player, just as Pflugrad did. I for one, to this day, feel Pflugrad was 100% correct in his defending Jordan Johnson. Being Engstrom did not like the defense being done publicly, he and O'day were both screwed. Then again, that is entirely another subject.

I have personally witnessed how coaches react to adverse news regarding their program and/or players. Fans that are close to the coaches know damn well something is wrong, before it becomes public knowledge. I do know, these coaches really want to say more to those they trust, but often don't. However, I do feel a trusted media member has a job to do, in trying to get proper information as soon as possible. Some jump the gun and speculate. Others, are told things in confidence with a date okay to release the information and what to release to the public. Do I think it is possible for the likes of Kyle, AJ, etc to be given more information by certain players or coaches, that is considered DIRT? I definitely believe, it is possible. Personally, I have never considered AJ or Kyle as to having jumped the gun or crossing certain lines. In my opinion, both are honorable and respected journalists. I certainly am not going to use this forum or thread as a measure to believe otherwise.

Rather it be a coach, player, or media member, when I am given information, I do my best to determine if the person telling me wants it confidential, or to what extent I can drop hints, without mentioning names, or specifics. I do know of a few egrizzers who used to give EGRIZ good information here, but no longer do because of the idiots and yahoos who call them on the information. How dare the information be slightly off base! Personally, I have learned, it is best to not post as much information here, no matter what the information is, or how far in advance something is told before it becoming public knowledge.

 

[PlayerRep]

I too like Kyle Sample and his writing. He does get confidential information from coaches, especially in a certain sport, that he keeps confidential and doesn't print until it's okay to make it public. He also gets confidential info from other people that he doesn't print, or print before it is okay to print it. I believe he keeps sources confidential and can be trusted. If he wasn't disagreeing with a certain poster so much this week, he would have more information. Ha.

I didn't read many of the above posts, or read them closely, so I am not commenting specifically on them. Didn't have time to study them.

 

[TxGriz]

I opened my mouth in a conversation with a very successful football coach and got bitch slapped for my ignorance (but in a nice Christian way). it was in a sports bar and I was never so embarrassed and never did anything like that again.

 

[kyle_sample]

This "A rule of thumb: nothing you say to anyone is ever "off the record." For that reason, no one off-staff is really going to get "the skinny."" is complete bullshit. If you're a good reporter you can absolutely get the "skinny"

Careful with the "complete bullshit" talk there junior. I just sent in my $90 to read your stuff, but I can still cancel. I'm not here to insult you, and you can zip the tough talk in that regard. As a former sports reporter and sports editor, I know exactly how it works, and likely better than you do.

There are some things you might know, but can't "report" because you will lose your source. So, you're worthless in your job. It's also a matter of different experience that there is nothing to be gained by saying anything to you or anybody else that would damage the speaker or the program if it "got out," so experience says: "why say it in the first place?"

Last year, I made the gentle suggestion to you that, as a reporter, you might get information about Stitt's precise payout last year, because he was required to file a report with the President's Office, for instance. Go over and ask to see it, I advised. Other reporters do it. You didn't because you didn't want to offend your source.

You may think you can get the "skinny." Good for you. I find players are a good source. But a coach is not going jeopardize his positive public relations by telling you anything meaningful or damaging "off the record" simply because there is nothing to gain from it. Jud Heathcote was great for "confiding" inside information, "now, don't tell anybody," and make you feel all good and important, then you'd find out later that everybody knew it. It was funny in Jud's unique way.

In my career in Journalism, ending at the Managing Editor position, I found that young sports reporters were a gullible lot. They generally reported sports because they loved sports. They wrote free press releases for the Athletic Department. Nothing wrong with that. It's exciting to cover, and some fine writing can come out of it. But, they were incapable of true journalism, investigative journalism, and so those assignments always went to other reporters. And by "incapable" I mean it was structurally nearly impossible and that was just practicality; as one hapless journalist and publication found out from Bobby Hauck. Offend the coach: you're out of the loop. Ask your boss about publishing "insider" information about the "Coach's actions" and the nice things that then happen to you at press conferences.

Try that for "skinny."

Please educate me further. Please oh please, tell me what I do not know. For you are the bearer of great information and I am but a junior sports reporter incapable of true journalism. How I yearn to someday break the chains of these press releases I write and somehow learn the secrets of investigative journalism from wise men like yourself.

 

[GrizzGriz]

This "A rule of thumb: nothing you say to anyone is ever "off the record." For that reason, no one off-staff is really going to get "the skinny."" is complete bullshit. If you're a good reporter you can absolutely get the "skinny"

Careful with the "complete bullshit" talk there junior. I just sent in my $90 to read your stuff, but I can still cancel. I'm not here to insult you, and you can zip the tough talk in that regard. As a former sports reporter and sports editor, I know exactly how it works, and likely better than you do.

There are some things you might know, but can't "report" because you will lose your source. So, you're worthless in your job. It's also a matter of different experience that there is nothing to be gained by saying anything to you or anybody else that would damage the speaker or the program if it "got out," so experience says: "why say it in the first place?"

Last year, I made the gentle suggestion to you that, as a reporter, you might get information about Stitt's precise payout last year, because he was required to file a report with the President's Office, for instance. Go over and ask to see it, I advised. Other reporters do it. You didn't because you didn't want to offend your source.

You may think you can get the "skinny." Good for you. I find players are a good source. But a coach is not going jeopardize his positive public relations by telling you anything meaningful or damaging "off the record" simply because there is nothing to gain from it. Jud Heathcote was great for "confiding" inside information, "now, don't tell anybody," and make you feel all good and important, then you'd find out later that everybody knew it. It was funny in Jud's unique way.

In my career in Journalism, ending at the Managing Editor position, I found that young sports reporters were a gullible lot. They generally reported sports because they loved sports. They wrote free press releases for the Athletic Department. Nothing wrong with that. It's exciting to cover, and some fine writing can come out of it. But, they were incapable of true journalism, investigative journalism, and so those assignments always went to other reporters. And by "incapable" I mean it was structurally nearly impossible and that was just practicality; as one hapless journalist and publication found out from Bobby Hauck. Offend the coach: you're out of the loop. Ask your boss about publishing "insider" information about the "Coach's actions" and the nice things that then happen to you at press conferences.

Try that for "skinny."

Please educate me further. Please oh please, tell me what I do not know. For you are the bearer of great information and I am but a junior sports reporter incapable of true journalism. How I yearn to someday break the chains of these press releases I write and somehow learn the secrets of investigative journalism from wise men like yourself.

:clap:

 

[kyle_sample]

Damn...glad you weren't trying to insult him.

It's a reality check. Typically, I've complimented his sports coverage and work at the Missoulian. Been very positive about him and his writing. And I did so as a former practicing Journalist and sports reporter in a position to have an objective and informed opinion. But when despite that record, when he feels some need to insult me personally, completely gratuitously, well, good luck with that. He will quickly lose his supporters with that horseshit attitude. I paid $90 to get good writing, not to be personally insulted. I mean, wow, some people just "have a way ...".

Sometimes the "young" have a confidence and arrogance about what they "think" they know. As Mark Twain said, paraphrasing, "My Dad was a complete idiot when I was 14. I was amazed how much he had learned by the time I was 21." Perhaps Kyle will settle down and not feel the need to offer hyperactive insults regarding the experiences of more experienced people in the world.

I didn't attack you personally, I said one line out of your post was bullshit. Everybody says some bullshit stuff now and then. I know I certainly do. But if you think you didn't, then we disagree. It's pretty simple.

 

[BWahlberg]

Damn...glad you weren't trying to insult him.

It's a reality check. Typically, I've complimented his sports coverage and work at the Missoulian. Been very positive about him and his writing. And I did so as a former practicing Journalist and sports reporter in a position to have an objective and informed opinion. But when despite that record, when he feels some need to insult me personally, completely gratuitously, well, good luck with that. He will quickly lose his supporters with that horseshit attitude. I paid $90 to get good writing, not to be personally insulted. I mean, wow, some people just "have a way ...".

Sometimes the "young" have a confidence and arrogance about what they "think" they know. As Mark Twain said, paraphrasing, "My Dad was a complete idiot when I was 14. I was amazed how much he had learned by the time I was 21." Perhaps Kyle will settle down and not feel the need to offer hyperactive insults regarding the experiences of more experienced people in the world.

I didn't attack you personally, I said one line out of your post was bullshit. Everybody says some bullshit stuff now and then. I know I certainly do. But if you think you didn't, then we disagree. It's pretty simple.

I try to say some BS at least twice per day

 

[UMGriz75]

Please educate me further. Please oh please, tell me what I do not know. For you are the bearer of great information and I am but a junior sports reporter incapable of true journalism. How I yearn to someday break the chains of these press releases I write and somehow learn the secrets of investigative journalism from wise men like yourself.

I think you probably have already pretty much announced how much you think you know. You need no guidance from me. Nor my $90 either for that matter. Insulting your readers might be something you can reflect on as a journalistic strategy. Good luck and best wishes.

 

[UMGriz75]

Please educate me further. Please oh please, tell me what I do not know. For you are the bearer of great information and I am but a junior sports reporter incapable of true journalism.

For starters, a "true journalist" would have been able to see that I did not say that the individual reporter was "incapable," and would not have misquoted me in order to try and make a point. I specifically said that it was "structural" to the relationship of sports reporters to their sources, and pointed to two specific examples relevant to UM's sports coverage.

Getting the story "right" is part of that "true journalism" thingy.