QB's, we are over reacting.

[Griz Growler]

While I think our qb's will get better, comparison's between freshman playing at the Big Sky level and future hall of fame qb's at the SEC level is a bit of a stretch.

 

[jagur1]

While I think our qb's will get better, comparison's between freshman playing at the Big Sky level and future hall of fame qb's at the SEC level is a bit of a stretch.

I don't understand why it's a stretch. HOF NFL players can improve but Big Sky players can't improve?

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Obviously a QB can improve his accuracy. Like any sport where a skill is honed ... accuracy and consistency with throwing the ball can be improved. Take golf as an example. There should be no doubt that a golfers accuracy and consistency driving the ball can be improved over time. The real question is how does it happen? Most of the time it takes more than a strong will and determination on the athletes part alone. It takes a good coach that understands the individual ... their swing flaws, etc. and then sets in motion a process to make the corrections (often small incremental changes over an extended time). A good QB coach can do this as well. It’s been done in the past so why not now?

Science doesnt support your babbling..................

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[Raider]

Obviously a QB can improve his accuracy. Like any sport where a skill is honed ... accuracy and consistency with throwing the ball can be improved. Take golf as an example. There should be no doubt that a golfers accuracy and consistency driving the ball can be improved over time. The real question is how does it happen? Most of the time it takes more than a strong will and determination on the athletes part alone. It takes a good coach that understands the individual ... their swing flaws, etc. and then sets in motion a process to make the corrections (often small incremental changes over an extended time). A good QB coach can do this as well. It’s been done in the past so why not now?

Because both of our current guys lack the basic skill-set and raw ability to make these type of drastic improvements, period. That is why the Cole Bergquist example was so poor. Yes, a player can improve, within the confines of their ability. Our guys are what they are at this point, sorry.

#6 is a different story. If he stays, he will be under center next year.

 

[grizophile]

The only "concern" I have is the QB's we have running Pflu's offense. You saw how it should work with JJ...you have a QB that is a threat to run and an accurate passer. With TM you have a threat to run but not an accurate passer. With SSH you have a good passer but really no threat to run. IMO, Rosey needs to change the offense in the offseason to suit the QB's that Montana has or really work on the weaknesses that exist.

SSH is a slinger.......check out the wind up. He is not a good passer and never will be at this level IMHO.
He was basically the same in high school........not the answer for the future.

 

[mikegriz]

Obviously a QB can improve his accuracy. Like any sport where a skill is honed ... accuracy and consistency with throwing the ball can be improved. Take golf as an example. There should be no doubt that a golfers accuracy and consistency driving the ball can be improved over time. The real question is how does it happen? Most of the time it takes more than a strong will and determination on the athletes part alone. It takes a good coach that understands the individual ... their swing flaws, etc. and then sets in motion a process to make the corrections (often small incremental changes over an extended time). A good QB coach can do this as well. It’s been done in the past so why not now?

Because both of our current guys lack the basic skill-set and raw ability to make these type of drastic improvements, period. That is why the Cole Bergquist example was so poor. Yes, a player can improve, within the confines of their ability. Our guys are what they are at this point, sorry.

#6 is a different story. If he stays, he will be under center next year.

Don't know much about the science of QBs, but I do know a fair amount about the science of learning. What you say would make sense if we accept that our current guys all have some limitations on their ability. However, they look like elite athletes to me, and can't see what limits their potential to make improvements drastic or otherwise. What's the evidence of no potential to be more than they are now?

 

[Raider]

Mike,

I could go on and on, but I’ll be brief because I already regret commenting.

1) You cannot teach arm strength, period
2) While this is arguable, you cannot teach anticipation
3) While you can slightly improve mechanics, your ceiling for improvement is very limited at this age.
4) For some players, the game moves very, very quickly. Some can slow it down. This is (was) JJ’s best attribute.

 

[mikegriz]

Mike,

I could go on and on, but I’ll be brief because I already regret commenting.

1) You cannot teach arm strength, period
2) While this is arguable, you cannot teach anticipation
3) While you can slightly improve mechanics, your ceiling for improvement is very limited at this age.
4) For some players, the game moves very, very quickly. Some can slow it down. This is (was) JJ’s best attribute.

Raider,

No reason to regret commenting (I don't think), just looking for some dialogue. I'd say...

1) You can't teach arm strength, but you can develop/improve arm strength

2) I think you can teach anticipation. Doesn't mean everybody can or will be good at it, but we don't know that these guys lack the aptitude to learn skills that would make them anticipate better. Do we?

3) Sounds plausible (at least I can't argue). I've read that you can't really change a person's throwing mechanics. Seems the goal would be to get a guy's mechanics as good as they can be. Seems to me that there have been some damned good QBs who had less than ideal throwing mechanics that compensated with other factors (I'm a Brett Favre fan).

4) To be honest, I don't get number 4. I'm sure you are not being literal, because you can't slow the game down. The game is moving as fast as the game is moving. If we're talking anticipation, vision, reaction (Brett Favre) - you can teach people skills to improve those qualities. Again, not everybody can or will be good at it, but at least some part of that quality is skill-based and you can teach people skills.

My limited understanding of athletic potential is that it is the result of a number of factors, only one of them being genetics. I really hope that we didn't recruit four guys as QBs that don't have the potential to be QBs - that would really speak poorly of our program.

 

[Spanky]

Mike: Did you say elite athletes?

 

[Bear Pause]

The posters who are trying to say that an improved completion percentage proves that accuracy can be learned are drawing conclusions which are flawed. In many cases, the increased completion percentage comes from making better reads as the QB gains more experience, thus making throws which have a higher chance of being completed. This has nothing to do however with accuracy on a given throw.

With regard to TM and SSH, I do not think that either will ever be very accurate. But, they may improve their decision-making ability as to when and where to throw the ball. Both have serious flaws in their game which will preclude them from being the answer as a UM QB.

 

[mikegriz]

Mike: Did you say elite athletes?

Well, yeah.... but I realize that's a subjective term. They may not be elite college quarterbacks (Andrew Luck, RGIII, Russell Wilson, etc) but compared to most people (and even most people that would consider themselves athletes), they are elite athletes. I mean they are playing their sport at the collegiate level. They can run faster, jump higher, etc, etc than the vast majority of people and most of the people they played against in H.S. My point was not that they are the cream of the quarterback crop, but that they should have the capacity and potential to learn, develop, and improve their performance.

 

[mtgriz]

Name one QB at any level that all of a sudden got accurate........................

Kurt Warner - 1999. Went from two training camp cuts to stocking shelves at Kroger to quarterbacking a Super Bowl winning team that did a lot of damage through the air.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Name one QB at any level that all of a sudden got accurate........................

Kurt Warner - 1999. Went from two training camp cuts to stocking shelves at Kroger to quarterbacking a Super Bowl winning team that did a lot of damage through the air.

Soon to be hall of famer too.

 

[PTGrizzly]

The main difference is that most of the players discussed in this thread played (and succeeded) in a pro-style offense. Then you see players like Tebow where the coaches realized his short to mid-range accuracy was mediocre and tailored the offense around that. Now Tebow was unique in that he actually throws an incredibly accurate deep ball, but everything else is garbage.

The reason McKinney has a fairly high accuracy mark is because he's throwing little bubble screens, he check downs to the RB's often, etc etc. However when you force him to throw those 10-15 yard passes, he struggles immensely with placing the ball accurately on a consistent basis. Now can he improve? Sure, it's possible, but it doesn't seem to happen very often. The other concern is his seemingly lack of ability to read a defense. Some people have the skill, some people don't, and it's very difficult to just learn. More of an innate gift IMO.

 

[PTGrizzly]

Also for those who said Aaron Rodgers...he was known to be an incredibly accurate QB when he came out of Cal. As a 19 year old at Cal, he completed ~62% of his passes. Pretty damn good. Ever since he's had consistent playing time in the NFL, his lowest completion percentage was ~63%. I wouldn't say that he's ever struggled with accuracy.

 

[GrizzManFan]

Wait a second didn’t the qbs have 2 ½ months to improve and yet all we see are the same mistakes over and over again. I don’t think the off session is going to help much more than the game experience and that didn’t seem to do much for these guys. You can no longer call them young and inexperienced.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Name one QB at any level that all of a sudden got accurate........................

Kurt Warner - 1999. Went from two training camp cuts to stocking shelves at Kroger to quarterbacking a Super Bowl winning team that did a lot of damage through the air.

Warner was always an accurate QB........the reason he got cut was because the idiots in the NFL choose size and speed over talent all the time. Right now there are only 3 coaches in the NFL that seems to put the best players on the field regardless of size or speed.......and its no mistake that they win alot.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[stubbins]

The posters who are trying to say that an improved completion percentage proves that accuracy can be learned are drawing conclusions which are flawed. In many cases, the increased completion percentage comes from making better reads as the QB gains more experience, thus making throws which have a higher chance of being completed. This has nothing to do however with accuracy on a given throw.
With regard to TM and SSH, I do not think that either will ever be very accurate. But, they may improve their decision-making ability as to when and where to throw the ball. Both have serious flaws in their game which will preclude them from being the answer as a UM QB.

smartest thing said on this thread....

 

[UMAlum]

Obviously a QB can improve his accuracy. Like any sport where a skill is honed ... accuracy and consistency with throwing the ball can be improved. Take golf as an example. There should be no doubt that a golfers accuracy and consistency driving the ball can be improved over time. The real question is how does it happen? Most of the time it takes more than a strong will and determination on the athletes part alone. It takes a good coach that understands the individual ... their swing flaws, etc. and then sets in motion a process to make the corrections (often small incremental changes over an extended time). A good QB coach can do this as well. It’s been done in the past so why not now?

Science doesnt support your babbling..................

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

So how do you scientifically measure accuracy? You cant use percent completions as one of the indicators, according to your logic, so what measures are you using in order to claim that science backs you up?

The posters who are trying to say that an improved completion percentage proves that accuracy can be learned are drawing conclusions which are flawed. In many cases, the increased completion percentage comes from making better reads as the QB gains more experience, thus making throws which have a higher chance of being completed. This has nothing to do however with accuracy on a given throw.

smartest thing said on this thread....

Maybe we are going in circles ... but to say you can’t become more accurate on a given throw doesn’t make sense. If a given throw can be defined as a particular route (a weak side bubble screen, middle screen , fade, etc.), than there is no question that coaching, practice and experience can help a QB improve his performance ... with those particular plays. Of course there is much more to playing the position than accuracy with a particular throw. I would agree that it may not be possible for MOST QBs to significantly improve their ability to read todays dynamic defenses, for example. To me, that is a bigger issue than improving accuracy (at least as I define it).

 

[WaGriz4life]

Alpha is right. You can get better on mechanics or footwork, but great accuracy involves sensing and seeing things before they happen and reacting extremely fast to these senses. You either have that or you don't.

All you guys posting rookie QB's completion percentage numbers don't get it. Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner were always accurate, they didn't become more accurate after their rookie year. All QB's will tell you they get better after their rookie year because they can read defenses better, know the offense better, and the game slowed down for them.

Completion percentage does not necessarily measure how accurate a QB is.