Pre-Fall camp discussion 2 - The defense & specialists

[uptopgriz]

I think that's the point Outlaw. Probably works fine against average teams, and of course it will work against the crappy teams (Of which you played several). But when you run into an elite team like MSU, NDSU, SDSU... ain't happening.

Uhm, it worked against Michigan.... and it worked to get TCU to the championship.

It worked for us against Washington. It worked great when we destroyed the Cats the year before...

Comparing the Griz to TCU is laughable.

 

[nzone]

Taking anything from PG is as laughable.. :lol:

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

Uhm, it worked against Michigan.... and it worked to get TCU to the championship.

It worked for us against Washington. It worked great when we destroyed the Cats the year before...

Comparing the Griz to TCU is laughable.

Except that he said the 3-3-5 can't work against elite teams.... You get that, right?

 

[mthoopsfan]

Uhm, it worked against Michigan.... and it worked to get TCU to the championship.

It worked for us against Washington. It worked great when we destroyed the Cats the year before...

Comparing the Griz to TCU is laughable.

The comparison is to the 3-3-5. Your post is laughable. Do you have the money for our Griz-Cat bet yet?

 

[SoldierGriz]

It's not the scheme. It's the personnel executing.

The scheme can be a run-stuffing machine if the 3 up front are good enough to unleash the other 8.

That's been principal among the problems for the Griz at times...elite teams will have elite offensive lines...

But, it is not the scheme itself.

So despite what people keep saying, it sounds like the 3-3-5 isn't the issue.

I don't think so. But, it does require the right players to execute it as designed.

If some are saying the Griz can't get the right number of high caliber of D-linemen...then that might lead them to think it's the scheme.

K-state won the BIG 12 last year using the 3-3-5. But, their defensive line was elite with a 1st Team All American aboard...and their safeties are smallish linebackers who run through tailbacks.

 

[uofmman1122]

So despite what people keep saying, it sounds like the 3-3-5 isn't the issue.

I don't think so. But, it does require the right players to execute it as designed.

If some are saying the Griz can't get the right number of high caliber of D-linemen...then that might lead them to think it's the scheme.

K-state won the BIG 12 last year using the 3-3-5. But, their defensive line was elite with a 1st Team All American aboard...and their safeties are smallish linebackers who run through tailbacks.

Okay, that's definitely an argument that has merit, and one that I'm willing to have. Is the 3-3-5 the best system we could be running right now? Good question. I think there's a great discussion to be had there.

I want these other people (not you) to miss me with these dumb surface-level shots at the 3-3-5. Trust me cat fans and Bobby haters, the much more pointed critique isn't "you run the 3-3-5, which sucks", it's "you can't run the 3-3-5 correctly". We didn't lose the cat game last year because of the defense we run, we lost it and got run over because we couldn't run it well and were overmatched.

 

[Missoula223]

So despite what people keep saying, it sounds like the 3-3-5 isn't the issue.

I don't think so. But, it does require the right players to execute it as designed.

If some are saying the Griz can't get the right number of high caliber of D-linemen...then that might lead them to think it's the scheme.

K-state won the BIG 12 last year using the 3-3-5. But, their defensive line was elite with a 1st Team All American aboard...and their safeties are smallish linebackers who run through tailbacks.

This whole post is logical. K-state matched personnel and ran a lot of 3-2-6 at least in 2021. Lack of execution (which also boils down to coaching) and lack of personnel (which boils down to recruiting/ability to recruit) is much more of the culprit than the general blame of 3-3-5.

The coaches that are able to recruit to a specific scheme and then coach their players to execute their scheme is more often the issue or the reason to success than the general scheme. Everyone plays cover 4. Everyone plays cover 2. Everyone plays man free. It’s a programs ability to recruit, coach, and execute that gives them the ability to have success. It’s also the programs inability to do those things that are the culprit for lack of success. I would rather see posters whine about a coaches ability to coach or recruit than than complain about the scheme, which frankly, none of us myself included, have really any idea about in terms of what is coached and how recruits are evaluated at UM.

 

[indian-outlaw]

What specifically about the 3-3-5 as a scheme makes it weak against "elite" teams?

It's not the scheme. It's the personnel executing.

The scheme can be a run-stuffing machine if the 3 up front are good enough to unleash the other 8.

That's been principal among the problems for the Griz at times...elite teams will have elite offensive lines...

But, it is not the scheme itself.

This! There is no reason that you cannot be gap sound in a 3-3-5. In fact it's even better for that if you play a little more conservative with less blitzing. Throw in the twist blitzing on occasion to keep the oline constantly confused and it's a great defense for the way we recruit.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Comparing the Griz to TCU is laughable.

Except that he said the 3-3-5 can't work against elite teams.... You get that, right?

No. No, he does not.

 

[bgbigdog]

You can analyze statistics on the performance of the defense, and I think like me, come up with two pretty important conclusions. The first, it was difficult to get inside the red zone with this group. They gave up 125 points, or 10.5 per game. They averaged about 23 points surrendered each game, which means 12 or so came from outside the red zone. Explosives are typically characterized as plays of greater than 20 yards, or they are in my house. In two of the last three games, I think they gave up seven explosives for TDs. But I still come back to allowing 23 points a game, and you'll recall there were two blowouts to skew the number a bit. I can't shake the notion that holding the other guys to 23 points a game, shouldn't give you a chance to win every time out. This gets me to point two.

I've said on multiple occasions that they were on the field a whole game longer than the offense. We'd all agree there were all kinds of reasons that occured, most of which had to do with an inconsistent offense. Yes, they averaged 33 per game, including five blow outs of their own. By the last three games of the season, you could clearly see the defense was beaten up and worn out.

Everything can be improved upon, but I've thought about it a fair bit and honestly don't think the strategy is the problem. Unless we're talking about the offense. Maybe that gets fixed in the season upcoming. If the defense plays a whole game more than the offense again this season, you better hope it's because Pease has them striking lightening fast. And that would be ok at times because it's a hell of alot more motivating to come in after the offense has scored, than it is after another three and out. If they can't figure out consistent production, it's going to be a long season.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I think this is the year Detrick takes a huge step up.

 

[Colter_Nuanez56]

Coach Hauck talked about conference realignment (he once worked at UCLA, Colorado and Washington before his first stint at head coach at Montana) as well as his offensive and defensive lines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8_A9jK3Ix8&feature=youtu.be

 

[bgbigdog]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cv8Z_PvNKFz/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Just as I suspected - a slot corner st times and an extra down lineman on passing downs once in a while. Ok… all he actually said was “ nuance” I’m sticking with my story until the man proves me wrong.

 

[Griz til I die]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cv8Z_PvNKFz/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Just as I suspected - a slot corner st times and an extra down lineman on passing downs once in a while. Ok… all he actually said was “ nuance” I’m sticking with my story until the man proves me wrong.

Wouldn’t those all be welcome changes to the defense???

 

[grizfan1984]

Bradford also said we lost a few guys early in camp
Anybody know who?

 

[garizzalies]

Nuce

 

[mthoopsfan]

Nuce

That would be unfortunate.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Nuce

That would be unfortunate.

Man, that sucks. That sucks ass. A thin position gets thinner. Unless Nuce saw his PT diminishing with the arrival of Harris…

 

[mthoopsfan]

Torn pec and surgery.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Torn pec and surgery.

Ah. I thought by "lost" he meant "left the team"...injury is different. Hope he returns full force next year. He was just developing into something special on that line.