Post Game: deflating loss

[Ursa Major]

I know this probably isn't going to be a popular thing to say (at least not with some people) but I put the blame on this loss squarely on the coaching staff. When dumb mistakes are made over and over it gets to the point where you really have to question if they are even paying attention to the game out there.

Look at our last 3 losses... this Griz team could be 5-1 right now. We had a big lead against EWU and blew it with WTF coaching. We had a big lead against NAU and decided to take our foot off the gas and try to coast to a victory. Now we get a small lead on SUU, go away from what's working, and make multiple dumbass coaching mistakes.

For the TL;DR version of what I'm getting at:
I don't care who we have at QB, punt returner, safety or any other position... you CAN'T overcome horrible coaching..and we are seeing that right now.

+1 Listen to this man!

 

[Uncle Si]

If Delaneys doghouse (who knows how you get in) is going to cost is games then please don't bring him back unless these issues are because of crimes, off field issues, or breaking team rules. Because there are some obvious favorites that can do no wrong. It's sickening.

 

[uofmman1122]

If Delaneys doghouse (who knows how you get in) is going to cost is games then please don't bring him back unless these issues are because of crimes, off field issues, or breaking team rules. Because there are some obvious favorites that can do no wrong. It's sickening.

Like I said in another thread, I refuse to believe we have to settle for a less than mediocre coach that makes our team look like a bunch of clowns just to clean up our program.

Some people may not like it, but after everything I've seen, I don't think Delaney should be coaching this team. A halfway competent coach would not have lost given away the games against EWU and SUU today.

 

[zirge]

You guys realize this is the fault of whomever controls the in-game music, right? We've been beaten in our house twice this year because Cotton Eyed Joe was played prematurely in both games. WTF, right?

not to mention MONTANA-GRIZZLIES chant by the crowd while Josh Harris was down on field being attended to
that was the only time it was used.........seems like it should be used to inspire the team and keep the momentum going....... not when a player is hurt and down on the field.

 

[niner-griz48]

worst feeling in a long time. no one persons fault. people don't want to admit its a learning year, just like every year with a new head coach. everyone should have known this could happen the day pflu and o'day got canned. so throw delaney out too? apparently all these assholes want another year just like this...or worse. they are trying, chemistry between everyone needs time.

i don't get burning joey counts redshirt either. also would like to see kirsh see way more time. lets not burn nguyen at the steak. he's doing great. a few fumbles happen! not to mention petes the nicest guy, don't hate him over a couple mistakes. we need moore and his power back asap. t-mac will get his rhythm. wasn't impressed with offensive line today. defense gives up in the 4th when it gets down to the wire--tripp and wags look good, coyle and dennard doing better, jp needs his oomph back. biggest question is where the hell has special teams been all year? that walden kid was fun to watch last year-flew undetected, then majorly screwed some shit up. where's he been? too much time on the hair?

 

[Uncle Si]

You guys realize this is the fault of whomever controls the in-game music, right? We've been beaten in our house twice this year because Cotton Eyed Joe was played prematurely in both games. WTF, right?

not to mention MONTANA-GRIZZLIES chant by the crowd while Josh Harris was down on field being attended to
that was the only time it was used.........seems like it should be used to inspire the team and keep the momentum going....... not when a player is hurt and down on the field.

The chant while Harris was down disgusted me. Monte started that chant once earlier with a guy down and I was pissed.

 

[TerrapinStation]

worst feeling in a long time. no one persons fault. people don't want to admit its a learning year, just like every year with a new head coach. everyone should have known this could happen the day pflu and o'day got canned. so throw delaney out too? apparently all these assholes want another year just like this...or worse. they are trying, chemistry between everyone needs time.

i don't get burning joey counts redshirt either. also would like to see kirsh see way more time. lets not burn nguyen at the steak. he's doing great. a few fumbles happen! not to mention petes the nicest guy, don't hate him over a couple mistakes. we need moore and his power back asap. t-mac will get his rhythm. wasn't impressed with offensive line today. defense gives up in the 4th when it gets down to the wire--tripp and wags look good, coyle and dennard doing better, jp needs his oomph back. biggest question is where the hell has special teams been all year? that walden kid was fun to watch last year-flew undetected, then majorly screwed some shit up. where's he been? too much time on the hair?

Delaney is that you?

 

[Griz66]

I keep up with Griz football from afar and am very disappointed with the direction things are going. Seems to me there is quite a bit of talent but we keep falling all over ouselves, making silly mistakes, losing leads, sitting on leads etc etc. To me this goes directly to coaching and the buck has to stop with the head guy. I think Delaney is a great guy but how can anyone expect a 70 year old coach with very limited head coaching experience to do well expecially one who had decided to retire an indication to me that he was ready to do something else with his life. Then to top it off you have two mediocre coordinators who likely are still learning the system. I look at this as pretty much of a lost season--i think we will lsoe to North Dakota and win the rest including the Cats game. Then hopefully someone with some sense and some guts to do whatr is right will start over for next year and get this mess cleaned up before we go back to the days when I was at UM and we were elated and surprised to beat anyone. We still need to remain loyal fans while at the same time "demanding" that the program not go down the tubes. If we are not careful MSU will become the premier school in the state and not just in football but all other sports plus most importantly in academics as they have a President who is a go getter, a visionary and is willing to take chances and think outside the box. GO GRIZ

 

[Copper Griz]

I keep up with Griz football from afar and am very disappointed with the direction things are going. Seems to me there is quite a bit of talent but we keep falling all over ouselves, making silly mistakes, losing leads, sitting on leads etc etc. To me this goes directly to coaching and the buck has to stop with the head guy. I think Delaney is a great guy but how can anyone expect a 70 year old coach with very limited head coaching experience to do well expecially one who had decided to retire an indication to me that he was ready to do something else with his life. Then to top it off you have two mediocre coordinators who likely are still learning the system. I look at this as pretty much of a lost season--i think we will lsoe to North Dakota and win the rest including the Cats game. Then hopefully someone with some sense and some guts to do whatr is right will start over for next year and get this mess cleaned up before we go back to the days when I was at UM and we were elated and surprised to beat anyone. We still need to remain loyal fans while at the same time "demanding" that the program not go down the tubes. If we are not careful MSU will become the premier school in the state and not just in football but all other sports plus most importantly in academics as they have a President who is a go getter, a visionary and is willing to take chances and think outside the box. GO GRIZ

THIS! Scares the hell out of me how accurate your predictions may be.

 

[Spanky]

I understand the frustrations, however, we knew from the beginning of the season it would be a difficult year. Our coach and AD were both fired and our starting qb couldn't play as a result of legal issues. In addition, there are the investigations ongoing that have a negative impact on the program, coaches and players. Now isn't the time to add fuel to the fire with negative comments about the coaching staff or individual players, however, it is the time to stay behind the Griz and give them our full support. Changes after the season? Perhaps, but not now.

 

[Grizzlies1982]

What's the issue with throwing the ball. If Trent can't get it done, go with the hyphonator.

hyphonator does not fit the spread offense type QB

The results seem to show the spread offense does not fit this team.
We have good RBs, they may be more effective if paired with a good passing attack.

 

[racehorsewilly]

I usually read, and try to not judge, but I do consider myself a loyal fan, and see no reason why E-griz players cannot point out what they feel are inadequacies without being disloyal. Nothing is perfect, and no matter if we win or lose, there are some things that can always be improved. Judging Coach Delaney as a coach is fair game in my opinion(but not personally), but lets be fair about it. Some people can "keep five balls in the air at one time" and others have trouble with one or two. All may be good people, but obviously the five ballers are going to be more successful. Doesn't make the one or two people bad-just misplaced in their endeavors. Bottom line for me is that I like E-griz and that opinions expressed are just that. Its a discussion forum, not necessarily a booster club. ( I will admit that my tender eyes are offended at some of the foul language, and personal attacks, but than I consider the fact that many writers could be our opponents masquerading as Griz)

 

[Ossie Ardiles]

On the plus side, nobody's been arrested this year. I think.

 

[grizaremoregooder]

Losing leads, making bad mistakes, turning the ball over.......THIS is what young teams do! They find a way to lose. How many Freshmen and Sophmores do they have out there....... MY GOD! Our quarterback CAN'T throw the ball, he is a Freshmen that was sitting in the stands last season. Our front 7 is very good and can get to the quarterback but our secondary is full of Freshmen and Sophmores (that's a weakness guys). The Grizzlies lost their best offensive player, head coach, the best defensive coach in our league, and the head offensive coach (too bad we couldn't have added the special teams coach ). The Grizzlies schedule has been brutal, one of the toughest we have had in recent memory. YOU CAN'T MAKE CHICKEN SOUP OUT OF CHICKEN S#!T! The team has glaring weaknesses on offense and defense and our coaches are making mistakes as well (first year guys go firgure). Next year will be different. Hell, we might even have #10 back on the field. All of these younger players and inexpirenced coaches and players are going to be better A LOT better in some instances. Let's just sit back and take this season in and yell our guts out for THIS team every Saturday. They will need it now more than ever.

 

[Potomac Griz]

Losing leads, making bad mistakes, turning the ball over.......THIS is what young teams do! They find a way to lose. How many Freshmen and Sophmores do they have out there....... MY GOD! Our quarterback CAN'T throw the ball, he is a Freshmen that was sitting in the stands last season. Our front 7 is very good and can get to the quarterback but our secondary is full of Freshmen and Sophmores (that's a weakness guys). The Grizzlies lost their best offensive player, head coach, the best defensive coach in our league, and the head offensive coach (too bad we couldn't have added the special teams coach ). The Grizzlies schedule has been brutal, one of the toughest we have had in recent memory. YOU CAN'T MAKE CHICKEN SOUP OUT OF CHICKEN S#!T! The team has glaring weaknesses on offense and defense and our coaches are making mistakes as well (first year guys go firgure). Next year will be different. Hell, we might even have #10 back on the field. All of these younger players and inexpirenced coaches and players are going to be better A LOT better in some instances. Let's just sit back and take this season in and yell our guts out for THIS team every Saturday. They will need it now more than ever.

I have to really disagree with your idea that this team is a young shitty team. The talent is there. We get to see glimpses of it until we get a lead, then it appears that the coaching staff goes into play not to lose mode with the play calling, and we lose. Even many of us fans who wear the maroon colored glasses on damn near everything are seeing this and are frustrated by it.

No...you can't make chicken soup out of chicken shit... but this coaching staff is taking a nice healthy bowl of chicken soup and adding chicken shit to it.

We've had brand new QBs before. We've had brand new coaching staffs before. We've had young teams before. And what were the results of those seasons? Playoffs. Even in the rough year where we had Washington and Bergquist (the Frosh bergquist) as QBs, we made it to the playoffs.

Remember the saying, the Griz don't rebuild, we reload? That's still true. The talent is not the issue.

The incredible WTF moments in coaching are also not called by the players.
Our players did not decide to kick off both halves against UNC.
Our players didn't decide to go in a complete shell offensively with the play calling once we had a decent lead against NAU.
Our players didn't decide to do the same exact thing @EWU once we had a lead.
Our players didn't decide to line up a smaller guy on the end against Kaufman for the onside kick (Delaney even admitted tat mistake).
Our players did not decide to run taht ...interesting... punt defense giving SUU a huge cushion when tehy only needed 2 yards and were very likely going to fake it.
Our players did not decide to save our final timeout in the first half when SUU was punting, allowing SUU to run about 30+ seconds off of the clock before they punted. Wouldn't that have been nice to have those 30 seconds when we got down near the red zone? At least one member of the coaching staff thought we needed to use a timeout there too, since he went sprinting down the sideline trying to get Delaney to call a timeout, and was promptly waved off by Delaney as precious time ticked off the clock.
Our players did not decide to go away from what was working against SUU, stop even trying to throw the ball down field or in the middle of the field (until late in the 4th quarter), and run that great 4th and 6(?) play to the short side of the field that worked so well.

I'm sure I'm forgetting quite a few examples that made me and may others think WTF is the coaching staff doing out there. The horrible clock management, combined with mistakes that just seem so bad they are almost unbelievable cannot be pinned on the players. Every damn time we seem to get on a roll offensively, we immediately handcuff our selves by going away from what's working, stop using the middle of the field, and then that's the end of the O for the game.

Basically it boils down to coaching mistakes have cost us 2, and possibly 3 wins now. We SHOULD be 5-2 right now, and COULD very likely be 6-1. Instead we sit here at 3-4. Like I said before, a team can overcome some mistakes by players (fumbles, ints, etc), but cannot overcome bad coaching. Sounds like some on the team are getting pretty damn frustrated with the coach too (See the Bienemann thread).

I guess at least we didn't kick off both halves last game..

 

[bGrizzled]

+1

 

[kurtismichael]

This sucks, I don't think a single Griz fan, coach, or player is feeling good at all this evening after this game, you just look at this loss (much like the other 3 as well) and the Griz had control but gave it away. In all the losses there was a pretty clear trend - costly turnovers, poor execution, and coaching errors. Pretty much the trifecta of how to lose a game regardless if you've got more talent on your side.

Looking back at my scouting report I posted 9 points where I thought the Griz needed to excel to beat SUU. Looking back at them:

1. Play more press coverage b/c SUU will look to pass a ton on us and probably noticed that UNC's Lobato passed all over our soft coverage.

Didn't do that

2. Get after the QB, sack/pressure him.

Did do that, 7 sacks today

3. Run the ball/grind it out, keep the ball out of their hands.

Didn't do that to the tune of almost 35 min TOP for SUU.

4. Get Trent rolling in the passing game

Started out trying it but just gave up and went 1-dimensional, so essentially they didn't do that.

5. Stay aggressive/don't get comfy

Didn't do that

6. Play smart/don't get penalties

Didn't do that, 9 penalties for 66 yards including two that extended a TD drive

7. Use our better pass coverage LBs to disrupt the shorter passing game

Didn't really do that

8. Win on special teams

Total fail

9. Hang onto the ball

Only 1 fumble but it was oh-so costly

---------------

Coaching errors come up every game, it seems like new ones arise weekly. There's too many happening and there's no one coach to blame. Lets start on offense, the playcalling was crap today, it had no rhythm, at one point we're a passing team and then suddenly we're a run-only team. Once again with a slight lead we go clock-kill practically and once the offense lost it's edge it could never gain it back. And a check-down on 4th and 5? Ergh... Over to defense, the pass coverage played right into Sorensen's hands - we gave SUU exactly what they wanted. We sacked the QB 7 times and still gave up just about 300 passing yards and lost, wow. Also the defense left the middle of the field wide open which led to a few costly QB runs, including a TD. Special teams.... oh man, and I just said they were coming together, today was a big failure. 2 blocked kicks, and shorter ones at that - blocking issues and the kicker kicking the ball too low, a fumble on a punt and trying to get cute on the punt block scheme which lead to a converted fake punt, garbage. Look at special teams alone, the Griz left 6 points off the board with 2 blocked fieldgoals and gave SUU 9 points (TD without the PAT and a fieldgoal)... if special teams executes and does their job... Griz win. It was THAT costly today.

I'm starting to wonder if this system works for Rosenbach, he's not a true spread coach. Pflu came in here with excellent knowledge of the Oregon offense and once it got rolling it was a thing of beauty. Now it's been tweaked and it looks like crap, there's no big strikes, there's very little mis-direction, and the creativity is almost non-existent. Under Smith and Phenecie before that we saw a system emerge that they used in every game. So far this year, it's been almost like a different system every game, we're a short pass team, then we're a screen-pass team, then we're a run-heavy team, then we're some sort of big passing team, but oh wait, no we're not and we're a run team again. So...? Yeah... And why can't we just smash it up the middle, why does every run play have to be zone right or zone left, is our OL incapable of going upfield to run block? (I doubt they are - it's just not even a consideration)

I put at the loss of edge/momentum on the coaching staff as well. This marks I think 6 of our 7 games where the Griz opened the 2nd half flat. Montana was out-scored 17-3 in the 2nd half today - the Griz average just 13 points per game in the 2nd half this season, while their opponents are averaging 17. Take out the UNC game and the Griz in their other games are averaging just 6 points per 2nd half in their other games - that's terrible.

Also I'm just baffled - why on earth did we burn Counts red shirt? There is a definite need for a power-running game. You can see right now that our running game is just Canada and Nguyen - the lighter speed burst guys. We saw today without the ability to power-rush that we had in Moore the running game lost part of what made it great when Dan was healthy. So we have Kirsh who runs powerfully, but don't use him. We burn Counts RS because we need a power runner, but we don't use him. So... why? For kickoff coverage? Really?
SUU showed they have figured out a good way to bottle up our offense, it looked like they ran a 4-4-3 with 1 safety and a 4th LB to stack the box - or they either had their reserve SS just stand close up and act as a linebacker. It worked well in the 2nd half.

The crowd was just about as tepid as our offense was in the 2nd half and it seems a lot on the sidelines (west and east - as well as the students) had already given up on going. Sad - but not a surprise to me, we could use a fair weather fan purge.
------------------------

It's tough to even think positive, but you've got to look at the silver lining to this a little bit.

- Josh Dennard is still pretty raw as a corner but he made some plays today. I see in the stat book that he had 5 pass breakups today. He's maybe a year out from playing like a true shut-down but I like to see that he's progressing.

- Jordan Tripp as a Clay Matthews-esque pass rusher is a beast, he was a total force getting after the QB today. Of course the challenge is you take him away from pass-coverage, but right now he seems more effective bull-rushing the QB.

- Running the ball I think both Peter and Jordan did really well, each were over 6 yards per carry and had some big runs. The running backs and OL blocking is probably the most consistent thing on the team right now.

- 7 sacks, this might be the best pass-rush team we've had in a while. Granted we have issues covering big time, but UM's got to be one of the best teams statistically in terms of sacks - and it's spread all around

- If he keeps playing the way he is Brock Coyle will enter next season as maybe one of the better mike-backers in the Big Sky. 13 tackles, 1 FF, 0.5 sack - a good game.

- Early on Trent McKinney completed some very nice deeper passes, I'm not sure why we went away from it, but he had a few nice deep ones that were right on the money.

------------

As some may think - the season, in fact, is not over. It may not continue on into the post-season but there's 4 more games left and I'm planning on supporting this team through thick and thin. It's the right time to vent - opinions need to be shared, but I'd urge you guys not to give up on these Griz. They've worked too hard and especially our seniors who I'm sure will want to finish strong deserve our ongoing support. They've got mine.
Go Griz!

Counts??????? WTF. Is Kirschner in that doghouse? Put Kirsh in and give him a shot.

Several people next to us about trampled my 5 year old heading for the exits..don't want to miss that sale at JC Penny. Hopefully, they sell their season tickets to people that have passion for the Griz despite the record.

As Brint said, the season is not over. I stated in another thread that we (Griz coaches, players, fans) should not label this a lost season. Instead get the ship turned around or bailed out bead ND, finish the season strong and build the big MO for 2013. As for coaching...I really liked listening to Mick D talk to Mick Holien after Griz games in prior years and I thought he would do an admirable job this year as head coach..but as someone else pointed out Mick had retired and if it were me it would be hard to switch over from retirement mode back to work mode. I'm sure Mick's loyalty to UM played a part in his decision in accepting to come back. It can't be easy for him either. That said I hope he does take responsibility for a lot of these decisions. I believe last week he did "own" the kicking off twice decision.

Thanks again Brint for your reports, keep them coming. Was gonna stop by the Windemere tailgate and say hello but got tied up at the Prudential.

 

[bluemarlin2]

Has anybody noticed that we GO TO NORTH DAKOTA three years in row? Also the game in 2013 is NON-CONFERENCE.

 

[Jeffandy]

I can see the frustration for Montana fan but after watching your games this season , I felt like we had a chance. Your offense seems not to have a identity at This point in the season, Suu had some big wins last season they beat Unlv who yes is a weak D1 program and came back to beat Weber St. Also and loss some close ones last year. We returned some good players from last years squad and got some freshman in that were D1 caliber players . We loss to Sac St. Should of would of could of Won that but Sorenson finally made plays when we needed him to, Montana should have ran the ball with a bigger back more, our nickel defense allowed us to blanket your receivers , seems like your Qb was looked on TE to much. The punt thing Wow! That was crazy never seen that before!!!! Anyway you guys have a true program and a target on your back so expect to get the best from each of your opponents . Love your guys forum great insight And dedication to your team :clap: Go T- birds!

 

[Hammer]

Pretty much agree with Brint... this was painful.

Couple things I'd like to add...end of the first half. They are punting... we have a timeout left...do we use it? NOPE! We let them run 30+ seconds off the clock. Maybe had we called a timeout (like one of the coaches was TRYING to get Delaney to do....) we wouldn't have been so rushed down at the end of the half and have to take two attempts into the endzone and then try a FG. Wouldn't it have been nice to have an extra 30-40 seconds at that point?

Did anyone else see that coach sprinting down the sidelines TRYING to get Delaney to call a timeout only to have Delaney waive him off?

I didn't see that incident but when the clock was at about 1:30 and running we were screaming for a TO, we got the ball back with 40 seconds left and then hit Saylor on the sideline, it would sure have been nice to have those 40+ seconds back at that point in time.