Observation/Question

[AZGrizFan]

I miss JJ rolling out and throwing on the run. Seems to me he is primarily staying in, the so called pocket. He was very accurate two years ago while on the move and I believe he still would be. Against' NAU, the pressure had him hemmed in and trying to throw out of the pocket every time. Had he been rolling out like of old, I believe he would have been able to complete the majority of his passes.

I can't get the image of JJ rolling out to his right against NAU and getting absolutely obliterated by the DE who blew around the tackle untouched and came up on JJ's blind side. THAT, my friends, is how SSH becomes the starting QB and a season filled with so much promise devolves into another 5 or 6 win campaign. :shock:

 

[66volvo]

The answer:

Last year=Trent McKinney= short and intermediate passes because he had no long ball accuracy.

This year=Jordan Johnson= much more accurate long ball. When the defense allows it, we will see the screen again.

'nuff said.

 

[mtgriz]

Long passes downfield don't even have to be complete to be effective.

Keeping safeties back = 378 yards rushing.

Couple that with 203 yards passing @ 8.5 yards per attempt and you're on the right track offensively.

 

[Potomac Griz]

With all of the complaining on this board you would never know that the Griz lead the Big Sky in Scoring (40.6/game) and in scoring Defense (19.6) per game. and, oh, we are 4-1.

Not complaining, 4-1 is a little better than I thought we'd be at this point (I figured 3-2). However as much as people hate to hear it, our schedule has been fairly weak so far. App State it turns out is not very good with only 1 D1 win so far (over another team that has a single D1 win, Elon). Portland State is 3-3..but 2 of those wins are against lower division teams. They have 1 D1 win (against UC Davis). North Dakota it turns out isn't the offensive juggernaut they were last year, and struggled to beat Idaho State. They are the best team (for record) that we've played..with a whopping 2 D1 wins. One over Idaho State (0 d1 wins), and one over Valparaiso (who lost to a team named William Jewel...wtf?!).

So lets not go overboard with the hype that our offense and defense is kicking ass. Yeah, they kicked ass so far, but it was in fact against some very weak teams unfortunately.

Since the conference season is still early it's hard to tell where things will end up. We've played a good team (NAU) and a fairly mediocre to weak team (PSU). We are 1-1 after that. Lets see how we look against UC Davis, Cal Poly, and EWU before we throw around stats that aren't really a good comparison to other teams in our conference. Conference only stats are usually a much better indication as to how good a team's offense and defense is, but it's too early in conference to use those.

I see. So we focus on "stats" when it's convenient, and "opponnent record" when it suits our argument? Did MSU have a "quality win" before they beat NAU? And what makes NAU a quality win? The fact that they beat Montana?

#2 Towson's wins are against FBS UConn (0-4), 2-4 Holy Cross, Delaware State (enough said), NC Central (From the MEAC, for God's sake), 2-3 Stony Brook (who has turned out to not be as good as previously thought) and 1-3 New Hampshire, who absolutely blows chunks right now.

Maybe Towson is a paper tiger, huh?

These arguments are ridiculous.

Um, no.... When there's not enough usable data we wait until there is enough usable data to draw a conclusion that at least has a reasonable chance of being somewhat accurate.

Like I said I'm happy that we are 4-1 at this point (I guessed we'd be 3-2), but using too small and questionable of a data sample to prove ones point leads to unsubstantiated conclusions. Note that I'm not saying our defense and offense sucks, I'm just saying we don't have enough info to say one way or another yet.

My point (which seems lost on you for some reason) is that It's a bit too early to label our offense & defense as top notch world-defeaters considering most of our opponents haven't been exactly top notch yet judging by their current performance (which may or may not be indicative of how good they actually are).

TL;DR - Lets wait and see how the next few weeks play out before we award ourselves with a NC trophy K?

 

[AZGrizFan]

My point (which seems lost on you for some reason) is that It's a bit too early to label our offense & defense as top notch world-defeaters considering most of our opponents haven't been exactly top notch yet judging by their current performance (which may or may not be indicative of how good they actually are).

And my point, which seems lost on you, is that very FEW teams have played an array of "top notch" opponents, yet for some reason some folks on here don't have a problem pre-ordaining THEM as NC contenders.

For example: Towson gave up 445 yards offense to a 1-3 UNH team. NDSU gave up 343 yards of offense to some team named Ferris State. SHSU gave up almost 500 yards of offense to EWU. Montana State gave up 567 yards of offense to SFA. Montana gave up 511 yards of offense to PSU.

Point is...shit happens. Game flow, situations, SCORE, WHO is actually on the field, and what the end-game objective is all dictate the type defense being played. It's why total yards really doesn't mean shit. Prior to the long (71 yard) pass play late in the 4th quarter, UM's defense had given up exactly 99 yards of offense to PSU in the 2nd half and we were leading by that point 55-20. Anyone who doesn't think the defense is going to take a slightly different approach at that point in the game is delusional (not saying YOU are, just people in general).

Dick-measuring contests about whose team gave up fewer yards is simply a retarded argument--plain and simple. Hell, even margin of victory, points scored, etc. is flawed. We have purposely left points on the field every single game as gestures of good sportsmanship. I measure the Griz success on one statistic---wins and losses. And THERE, we are currently the best team in the Big Sky. :thumb:

 

[Raider]

That is a really good post AZ.

For those of you obsessed with this discussion, you should give these comments a thorough read.

It’s amazing how the quality of opponent argument seems to only apply to the Griz. Then again, it’s been that way for as long as I can remember.

 

[PlayerRep]

My point (which seems lost on you for some reason) is that It's a bit too early to label our offense & defense as top notch world-defeaters considering most of our opponents haven't been exactly top notch yet judging by their current performance (which may or may not be indicative of how good they actually are).

And my point, which seems lost on you, is that very FEW teams have played an array of "top notch" opponents, yet for some reason some folks on here don't have a problem pre-ordaining THEM as NC contenders.

For example: Towson gave up 445 yards offense to a 1-3 UNH team. NDSU gave up 343 yards of offense to some team named Ferris State. SHSU gave up almost 500 yards of offense to EWU. Montana State gave up 567 yards of offense to SFA. Montana gave up 511 yards of offense to PSU.

Point is...shit happens. Game flow, situations, SCORE, WHO is actually on the field, and what the end-game objective is all dictate the type defense being played. It's why total yards really doesn't mean shit. Prior to the long (71 yard) pass play late in the 4th quarter, UM's defense had given up exactly 99 yards of offense to PSU in the 2nd half and we were leading by that point 55-20. Anyone who doesn't think the defense is going to take a slightly different approach at that point in the game is delusional (not saying YOU are, just people in general).

Dick-measuring contests about whose team gave up fewer yards is simply a retarded argument--plain and simple. Hell, even margin of victory, points scored, etc. is flawed. We have purposely left points on the field every single game as gestures of good sportsmanship. I measure the Griz success on one statistic---wins and losses. And THERE, we are currently the best team in the Big Sky. :thumb:

Good post. It's the mid-point of the season for most teams. We're at the point at which many conclusions and preliminary conclusions can be drawn. There is considerable record, observational and statistical data that can be analyzed. While winning the conference is important, trying to make much out of 2 (or even 1 conference) games is far too early, and almost meaningless. On the other hand, it's a long season, and half of the season is ahead of every team in the conference, and FCS. Teams will play well, and teams will play poorly, and things will change weekly. That's part of the joy of football and sport.

 

[PlayerRep]

That is a really good post AZ.

For those of you obsessed with this discussion, you should give these comments a thorough read.

It’s amazing how the quality of opponent argument seems to only apply to the Griz. Then again, it’s been that way for as long as I can remember.

Good point, and agreed, in your last para.

 

[AZGrizFan]

My point (which seems lost on you for some reason) is that It's a bit too early to label our offense & defense as top notch world-defeaters considering most of our opponents haven't been exactly top notch yet judging by their current performance (which may or may not be indicative of how good they actually are).

And my point, which seems lost on you, is that very FEW teams have played an array of "top notch" opponents, yet for some reason some folks on here don't have a problem pre-ordaining THEM as NC contenders.

For example: Towson gave up 445 yards offense to a 1-3 UNH team. NDSU gave up 343 yards of offense to some team named Ferris State. SHSU gave up almost 500 yards of offense to EWU. Montana State gave up 567 yards of offense to SFA. Montana gave up 511 yards of offense to PSU.

Point is...shit happens. Game flow, situations, SCORE, WHO is actually on the field, and what the end-game objective is all dictate the type defense being played. It's why total yards really doesn't mean shit. Prior to the long (71 yard) pass play late in the 4th quarter, UM's defense had given up exactly 99 yards of offense to PSU in the 2nd half and we were leading by that point 55-20. Anyone who doesn't think the defense is going to take a slightly different approach at that point in the game is delusional (not saying YOU are, just people in general).

Dick-measuring contests about whose team gave up fewer yards is simply a retarded argument--plain and simple. Hell, even margin of victory, points scored, etc. is flawed. We have purposely left points on the field every single game as gestures of good sportsmanship. I measure the Griz success on one statistic---wins and losses. And THERE, we are currently the best team in the Big Sky. :thumb:

Good post. It's the mid-point of the season for most teams. We're at the point at which many conclusions and preliminary conclusions can be drawn. There is considerable record, observational and statistical data that can be analyzed. While winning the conference is important, trying to make much out of 2 (or even 1 conference) games is far too early, and almost meaningless. On the other hand, it's a long season, and half of the season is ahead of every team in the conference, and FCS. Teams will play well, and teams will play poorly, and things will change weekly. That's part of the joy of football and sport.

And the angst, I might add. :evil:

 

[Potomac Griz]

And my point, which seems lost on you, is that very FEW teams have played an array of "top notch" opponents, yet for some reason some folks on here don't have a problem pre-ordaining THEM as NC contenders.

Well, I'm not one of those folks claiming teams are NC contenders this early in the season. Oddly enough the point you are making is similar to the point I'm making about it being a bit silly to label ourselves as NC contenders this early. If several weeks from now we are sitting at 9-1 then...well I'll definitely view things differently and might join in on the hype For now I'm in "wait and see" mode.

As for the stats I do agree that record is a hell of a lot more important than yards given up obviously. If the Griz are beating the shit out of another team the subs are likely in, we aren't running up the score (like you said leaving points on the field in some cases) and at that point the stats cease to really reflect how dominant the performance was.

When the year gets further along though the conference only stats start to become more meaningful for seeing what a teams strength and weaknesses are since the stats of the teams in the conference will be all against very similar competition with no Arizona States sprinkled in there along with Ft. Lewis. We have at least a couple big sky teams that have played multiple D2 or lower opponents... and I think at least two who played 2 FBS programs. That's why I don't like using non conference stats and prefer looking at conference only well into the season. Much more even in terms of level of competition when you look at conference only stats.

Hopefully after a few more games in conference we'll see the Griz continuing to kick ass and the people hyping our defense and offense as NC caliber will be right

 

[PlayerRep]

And my point, which seems lost on you, is that very FEW teams have played an array of "top notch" opponents, yet for some reason some folks on here don't have a problem pre-ordaining THEM as NC contenders.

Well, I'm not one of those folks claiming teams are NC contenders this early in the season. Oddly enough the point you are making is similar to the point I'm making about it being a bit silly to label ourselves as NC contenders this early. If several weeks from now we are sitting at 9-1 then...well I'll definitely view things differently and might join in on the hype For now I'm in "wait and see" mode.

As for the stats I do agree that record is a hell of a lot more important than yards given up obviously. If the Griz are beating the shit out of another team the subs are likely in, we aren't running up the score (like you said leaving points on the field in some cases) and at that point the stats cease to really reflect how dominant the performance was.

When the year gets further along though the conference only stats start to become more meaningful for seeing what a teams strength and weaknesses are since the stats of the teams in the conference will be all against very similar competition with no Arizona States sprinkled in there along with Ft. Lewis. We have at least a couple big sky teams that have played multiple D2 or lower opponents... and I think at least two who played 2 FBS programs. That's why I don't like using non conference stats and prefer looking at conference only well into the season. Much more even in terms of level of competition when you look at conference only stats.

Hopefully after a few more games in conference we'll see the Griz continuing to kick ass and the people hyping our defense and offense as NC caliber will be right

After 6 or so games, the few deviations you point out usually don't skew the stats much.

2 conference games of stats are virtually meaningless. Yes, they get more meaningful as the season goes on.

Looking at conference stats in the Big Sky this year, is not going to be as meaningful this season, due to the multiple non-conference games against conference teams. Don't we have a 2-0 conference team that has lost 2 non-conference games to conference teams?

 

[Potomac Griz]

Looking at conference stats in the Big Sky this year, is not going to be as meaningful this season, due to the multiple non-conference games against conference teams. Don't we have a 2-0 conference team that has lost 2 non-conference games to conference teams?

Hah! That's a good point... Yep, UC-Davis lost to PSU and to NAU, yet they are 2-0 in conference, putting them ahead of both PSU and NAU in the conference standings.

This year is kind of a clusterf%ck with the conference foes in the non-conference schedule isn't it? Out of curiosity, is this the only year for that or do you think we going to be seeing that often now with how the conference is laid out?

 

[PlayerRep]

Looking at conference stats in the Big Sky this year, is not going to be as meaningful this season, due to the multiple non-conference games against conference teams. Don't we have a 2-0 conference team that has lost 2 non-conference games to conference teams?

Hah! That's a good point... Yep, UC-Davis lost to PSU and to NAU, yet they are 2-0 in conference, putting them ahead of both PSU and NAU in the conference standings.

This year is kind of a clusterf%ck with the conference foes in the non-conference schedule isn't it? Out of curiosity, is this the only year for that or do you think we going to be seeing that often now with how the conference is laid out?

Every year. The league office has been saying that since the conference expanded.

Look at Sac St. Didn't they lose 4 in a row, and now are undefeated in conference play? I'd like UM to be undefeated in conference play too, but I'd rather be 4-1 than 2-4.

 

[Htowngriz]

Looking at conference stats in the Big Sky this year, is not going to be as meaningful this season, due to the multiple non-conference games against conference teams. Don't we have a 2-0 conference team that has lost 2 non-conference games to conference teams?

Hah! That's a good point... Yep, UC-Davis lost to PSU and to NAU, yet they are 2-0 in conference, putting them ahead of both PSU and NAU in the conference standings.

This year is kind of a clusterf%ck with the conference foes in the non-conference schedule isn't it? Out of curiosity, is this the only year for that or do you think we going to be seeing that often now with how the conference is laid out?

Every year. The league office has been saying that since the conference expanded.

Look at Sac St. Didn't they lose 4 in a row, and now are undefeated in conference play? I'd like UM to be undefeated in conference play too, but I'd rather be 4-1 than 2-4.

Exactly. Sac and Davis may be unbeaten in conference play, but they have little to no chance of making the playoffs.

 

[Potomac Griz]

Looking at conference stats in the Big Sky this year, is not going to be as meaningful this season, due to the multiple non-conference games against conference teams. Don't we have a 2-0 conference team that has lost 2 non-conference games to conference teams?

Hah! That's a good point... Yep, UC-Davis lost to PSU and to NAU, yet they are 2-0 in conference, putting them ahead of both PSU and NAU in the conference standings.

This year is kind of a clusterf%ck with the conference foes in the non-conference schedule isn't it? Out of curiosity, is this the only year for that or do you think we going to be seeing that often now with how the conference is laid out?

Every year. The league office has been saying that since the conference expanded.

Look at Sac St. Didn't they lose 4 in a row, and now are undefeated in conference play? I'd like UM to be undefeated in conference play too, but I'd rather be 4-1 than 2-4.

Sac is 3-3 right now. They did lose to SUU in a "non-conference" game but are 2-0 in conference. I agree, I'd take 4-1 over 3-3 any day though too.

All these non-conference games against conference opponents could make for some strange situations at the end of the seasons. I'm going to have to do a little reading I think on the big sky's website and see how tiebreakers are going to be handled now.

 

[Grizbeer]

It’s amazing how the quality of opponent argument seems to only apply to the Griz. Then again, it’s been that way for as long as I can remember.

How this usually plays out is when the Griz get to the playoffs and blow out good teams in the quarter finals and semi finals it is because the Griz are peaking at the right time, and WA Griz is cold and loud. When the Griz lose in the first round of the playoffs it is because they played a weak schedule and were not prepared for real playoff teams, mostly due to playing in the BSC.

 

[Silvertip]

Griz coaches have increasingly forgotten the inside screen pass Don Read brought to Missoula. It used short passes for some substantial gains and the current team certainly has the talent to make it work again...

 

['68griz]

Griz coaches have increasingly forgotten the inside screen pass Don Read brought to Missoula. It used short passes for some substantial gains and the current team certainly has the talent to make it work again...

I have to agree that I would like to see them try the inside screen a bit.