O line position discussion/revision 2/spring practices

[horribilisfan8184]

Who wants to be compared ot EWU? I watched NDSU's o-line, and with that line, we would have been first in all categories. With the experience (amount of games started) last year's o-line should have dominated every game. When I watched the Griz o-line play I saw tons of potential and unrealized talent. I don't blame any of that on the players. They and the O-line coaches should all be required to watch 100 hours of Conrad Dobler film before spring ball starts.

Only, you did.

Wrong. There was a whole other thread about how this years' line didn't have the swagger of previous o-lines, and had more of a laid back attitude of one of the coaches. Try reading that thread if you still don't get what I was saying.

I see. So, you blame their attitude, lack of "swagger", their lack of quickness, but none of that is blaming the player. Gotcha.

No, you obviously don't. Let me draw you a mental picture so you can. Put last years o-line starters in NDSU's program for 2 years and they would be as good or better than NDSU's starters because they would reach their potentials from training and coaching. Put NDSU's starters in our program the last 2 years and they perform as the Griz o-line did. The secret is in printing out this message and reading it in the mirror. LLORTADNAEHCUODAGNIEBERAUOY

 

[AZGrizFan]

Only, you did.

Wrong. There was a whole other thread about how this years' line didn't have the swagger of previous o-lines, and had more of a laid back attitude of one of the coaches. Try reading that thread if you still don't get what I was saying.

I see. So, you blame their attitude, lack of "swagger", their lack of quickness, but none of that is blaming the player. Gotcha.

No, you obviously don't. Let me draw you a mental picture so you can. Put last years o-line starters in NDSU's program for 2 years and they would be as good or better than NDSU's starters because they would reach their potentials from training and coaching. Put NDSU's starters in our program the last 2 years and they perform as the Griz o-line did.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
There's no way to actually KNOW that so who's actually being the troll? You have, IN WRITING, blamed their swagger, their attitude, and their lack of quickness. Then, when called on it, you backpedaled. This is neither 100% player-based, nor is it 100% coach based. Sometimes players just don't turn out to be as good as you project. Sometimes, they turn out to be better. NDSU had a magical recruiting class 4 years ago...those guys are all graduating. You can't hit a homerun with EVERY class...IF they (NDSU) continue their domination, then color me wrong. I suspect, however, that they'll come back to the pack just like App State did, just like Georgia Southern did, just like Montana eventually did.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Wrong. There was a whole other thread about how this years' line didn't have the swagger of previous o-lines, and had more of a laid back attitude of one of the coaches. Try reading that thread if you still don't get what I was saying.

I see. So, you blame their attitude, lack of "swagger", their lack of quickness, but none of that is blaming the player. Gotcha.

No, you obviously don't. Let me draw you a mental picture so you can. Put last years o-line starters in NDSU's program for 2 years and they would be as good or better than NDSU's starters because they would reach their potentials from training and coaching. Put NDSU's starters in our program the last 2 years and they perform as the Griz o-line did.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
There's no way to actually KNOW that so who's actually being the troll? You have, IN WRITING, blamed their swagger, their attitude, and their lack of quickness. Then, when called on it, you backpedaled. This is neither 100% player-based, nor is it 100% coach based. Sometimes players just don't turn out to be as good as you project. Sometimes, they turn out to be better. NDSU had a magical recruiting class 4 years ago...those guys are all graduating. You can't hit a homerun with EVERY class...IF they (NDSU) continue their domination, then color me wrong. I suspect, however, that they'll come back to the pack just like App State did, just like Georgia Southern did, just like Montana eventually did.

Thanks for continuting to prove my point. Underachieving on the field is coaching, either in failure to teach and get the most out of the player before they take the field, or not replacing an underachiever with a player who will achieve, once the game begins. As for NDSU, their head coach and OL coach are no longer there. Look for good o-line play by Wyoming against the Griz in the opener.

I reject your premise which is that if the Griz o-line underachieved it was a recruiting problem--100% blame the players. I assume if they werre recruited here, they can play, and its up to the coaches to get the most/best out of them.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I see. So, you blame their attitude, lack of "swagger", their lack of quickness, but none of that is blaming the player. Gotcha.

No, you obviously don't. Let me draw you a mental picture so you can. Put last years o-line starters in NDSU's program for 2 years and they would be as good or better than NDSU's starters because they would reach their potentials from training and coaching. Put NDSU's starters in our program the last 2 years and they perform as the Griz o-line did.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
There's no way to actually KNOW that so who's actually being the troll? You have, IN WRITING, blamed their swagger, their attitude, and their lack of quickness. Then, when called on it, you backpedaled. This is neither 100% player-based, nor is it 100% coach based. Sometimes players just don't turn out to be as good as you project. Sometimes, they turn out to be better. NDSU had a magical recruiting class 4 years ago...those guys are all graduating. You can't hit a homerun with EVERY class...IF they (NDSU) continue their domination, then color me wrong. I suspect, however, that they'll come back to the pack just like App State did, just like Georgia Southern did, just like Montana eventually did.

Thanks for continuting to prove my point. Underachieving on the field is coaching, either in failure to teach and get the most out of the player before they take the field, or not replacing an underachiever with a player who will achieve, once the game begins. As for NDSU, their head coach and OL coach are no longer there. Look for good o-line play by Wyoming against the Griz in the opener.

I reject your premise which is that if the Griz o-line underachieved it was a recruiting problem--100% blame the players. I assume if they werre recruited here, they can play, and its up to the coaches to get the most/best our of them.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah. Because coaches NEVER miss on recruits. :roll: :roll:

 

[horribilisfan8184]

No, you obviously don't. Let me draw you a mental picture so you can. Put last years o-line starters in NDSU's program for 2 years and they would be as good or better than NDSU's starters because they would reach their potentials from training and coaching. Put NDSU's starters in our program the last 2 years and they perform as the Griz o-line did.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
There's no way to actually KNOW that so who's actually being the troll? You have, IN WRITING, blamed their swagger, their attitude, and their lack of quickness. Then, when called on it, you backpedaled. This is neither 100% player-based, nor is it 100% coach based. Sometimes players just don't turn out to be as good as you project. Sometimes, they turn out to be better. NDSU had a magical recruiting class 4 years ago...those guys are all graduating. You can't hit a homerun with EVERY class...IF they (NDSU) continue their domination, then color me wrong. I suspect, however, that they'll come back to the pack just like App State did, just like Georgia Southern did, just like Montana eventually did.

Thanks for continuting to prove my point. Underachieving on the field is coaching, either in failure to teach and get the most out of the player before they take the field, or not replacing an underachiever with a player who will achieve, once the game begins. As for NDSU, their head coach and OL coach are no longer there. Look for good o-line play by Wyoming against the Griz in the opener.

I reject your premise which is that if the Griz o-line underachieved it was a recruiting problem--100% blame the players. I assume if they werre recruited here, they can play, and its up to the coaches to get the most/best our of them.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah. Because coaches NEVER miss on recruits. :roll: :roll:

And I thought we were talking about players on the field.

 

[grizindabox]

Only, you did.

Wrong. There was a whole other thread about how this years' line didn't have the swagger of previous o-lines, and had more of a laid back attitude of one of the coaches. Try reading that thread if you still don't get what I was saying.

I see. So, you blame their attitude, lack of "swagger", their lack of quickness, but none of that is blaming the player. Gotcha.

No, you obviously don't. Let me draw you a mental picture so you can. Put last years o-line starters in NDSU's program for 2 years and they would be as good or better than NDSU's starters because they would reach their potentials from training and coaching. Put NDSU's starters in our program the last 2 years and they perform as the Griz o-line did. The secret is in printing out this message and reading it in the mirror. LLORTADNAEHCUODAGNIEBERAUOY

That is quite an assumption which of course has no factual basis. Can I play too? NDSU had a better o-line because they had more talented players that wanted it more. Yeah, I can't prove that either, but you get the point.

 

[uofmman1122]

AZ, we ran the ball really well last year against teams that sucked, and sucked against teams with decent defenses (not even good defenses. We got completely shut down by good defenses)

The offensive change was pitched as a return to a dominating rushing attack that would wear down teams and open up the passing game.

We ended up with a rushing attack that was easily shut down, and a passing attack that excelled in spite of not being able to rush the ball.

Hopefully that changes this year.

 

[AZGrizFan]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
There's no way to actually KNOW that so who's actually being the troll? You have, IN WRITING, blamed their swagger, their attitude, and their lack of quickness. Then, when called on it, you backpedaled. This is neither 100% player-based, nor is it 100% coach based. Sometimes players just don't turn out to be as good as you project. Sometimes, they turn out to be better. NDSU had a magical recruiting class 4 years ago...those guys are all graduating. You can't hit a homerun with EVERY class...IF they (NDSU) continue their domination, then color me wrong. I suspect, however, that they'll come back to the pack just like App State did, just like Georgia Southern did, just like Montana eventually did.

Thanks for continuting to prove my point. Underachieving on the field is coaching, either in failure to teach and get the most out of the player before they take the field, or not replacing an underachiever with a player who will achieve, once the game begins. As for NDSU, their head coach and OL coach are no longer there. Look for good o-line play by Wyoming against the Griz in the opener.

I reject your premise which is that if the Griz o-line underachieved it was a recruiting problem--100% blame the players. I assume if they werre recruited here, they can play, and its up to the coaches to get the most/best our of them.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah. Because coaches NEVER miss on recruits. :roll: :roll:

And I thought we were talking about players on the field.

Let me see if I can explain this so that even you can get it: Just because they're PLAYING, doesn't mean the coach didn't "miss" on the recruit. Do you think it might be even remotely possible that there are players on the team, hell STARTERS even, who aren't as good as the coaches projected they would be at this point in their college careers? Who, at the SAME TIME, have maxed out their potential? Coaches projected a higher ceiling, but they just couldn't achieve it? Doesn't mean they aren't busting their ass, doesn't mean they're not "good"...but it DOES mean that the coach "missed" in their projections of this player's ultimate talent level when they recruited the guy out of high school. Who's fault is that? Anyones? Or is it just the way it is? If recruiting were a perfect science we wouldn't have juniors and seniors on the team who rarely see the field (Marlon Myles, etc). Or players that leave the team (i.e., Hayden Craig, Noah Scarver, etc), or players who never evolve into the worldbeaters' fans/coaches expected (Bo Tully, Sean Murray, etc)...the examples are endless. And as I was very clear on earlier, this is neither 100% a coaching/recruiting problem, nor a 100% player problem. There's enough "blame" to go around....fact remains, you could take NDSU's entire coaching staff (from last year), insert them into the University of Montana and we STILL wouldn't win the title every year like you seem to expect.

 

[AZGrizFan]

AZ, we ran the ball really well last year against teams that sucked, and sucked against teams with decent defenses (not even good defenses. We got completely shut down by good defenses)

The offensive change was pitched as a return to a dominating rushing attack that would wear down teams and open up the passing game.

We ended up with a rushing attack that was easily shut down, and a passing attack that excelled in spite of not being able to rush the ball.

Hopefully that changes this year.

We were "shut down" by NAU, Sac State & USD. We won two of those three games. In every other game we put up stupid numbers...hell, in a couple games it was Madden-like numbers. You realize that it IS possible that there might exist a front-four out there that (as a group) is better than our front four, yes? There were certain kinds of defenses that our running game didn't do well against...Every game has it's own "flow" which necessitates being able to change and take what the defense is giving you. Our coaching staff, while not perfect, obviously did that to SOME degree, given that two of Jordie's highest passing yardage total days were against Sac State and USD.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Thanks for continuting to prove my point. Underachieving on the field is coaching, either in failure to teach and get the most out of the player before they take the field, or not replacing an underachiever with a player who will achieve, once the game begins. As for NDSU, their head coach and OL coach are no longer there. Look for good o-line play by Wyoming against the Griz in the opener.

I reject your premise which is that if the Griz o-line underachieved it was a recruiting problem--100% blame the players. I assume if they werre recruited here, they can play, and its up to the coaches to get the most/best our of them.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah. Because coaches NEVER miss on recruits. :roll: :roll:

And I thought we were talking about players on the field.

Let me see if I can explain this so that even you can get it: Just because they're PLAYING, doesn't mean the coach didn't "miss" on the recruit. Do you think it might be even remotely possible that there are players on the team, hell STARTERS even, who aren't as good as the coaches projected they would be at this point in their college careers? Who, at the SAME TIME, have maxed out their potential? Coaches projected a higher ceiling, but they just couldn't achieve it? Doesn't mean they aren't busting their ass, doesn't mean they're not "good"...but it DOES mean that the coach "missed" in their projections of this player's ultimate talent level when they recruited the guy out of high school. Who's fault is that? Anyones? Or is it just the way it is? If recruiting were a perfect science we wouldn't have juniors and seniors on the team who rarely see the field (Marlon Myles, etc). Or players that leave the team (i.e., Hayden Craig, Noah Scarver, etc), or players who never evolve into the worldbeaters' fans/coaches expected (Bo Tully, Sean Murray, etc)...the examples are endless. And as I was very clear on earlier, this is neither 100% a coaching/recruiting problem, nor a 100% player problem. There's enough "blame" to go around....fact remains, you could take NDSU's entire coaching staff (from last year), insert them into the University of Montana and we STILL wouldn't win the title every year like you seem to expect.

You argue like a jilted college girl: emotional, illogical, unable to stay on point and make up what you think others are saying. This all started with a simple agreeing with UofMman that our running game sucked at times this year, especially when we needed it most, and you argued yourself into contending its all 100% the players' fault and contending we think the Griz should never lose a game ever. Since it is the off-season, I can't wait to see where you take your fantasy construct next.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Let me see if I can explain this so that even you can get it: Just because they're PLAYING, doesn't mean the coach didn't "miss" on the recruit. Do you think it might be even remotely possible that there are players on the team, hell STARTERS even, who aren't as good as the coaches projected they would be at this point in their college careers? Who, at the SAME TIME, have maxed out their potential? Coaches projected a higher ceiling, but they just couldn't achieve it? Doesn't mean they aren't busting their ass, doesn't mean they're not "good"...but it DOES mean that the coach "missed" in their projections of this player's ultimate talent level when they recruited the guy out of high school. Who's fault is that? Anyones? Or is it just the way it is? If recruiting were a perfect science we wouldn't have juniors and seniors on the team who rarely see the field (Marlon Myles, etc). Or players that leave the team (i.e., Hayden Craig, Noah Scarver, etc), or players who never evolve into the worldbeaters' fans/coaches expected (Bo Tully, Sean Murray, etc)...the examples are endless. And as I was very clear on earlier, this is neither 100% a coaching/recruiting problem, nor a 100% player problem. There's enough "blame" to go around....fact remains, you could take NDSU's entire coaching staff (from last year), insert them into the University of Montana and we STILL wouldn't win the title every year like you seem to expect.

You argue like a jilted college girl: emotional, illogical, unable to stay on point and make up what you think others are saying. This all started with a simple agreeing with UofMman that our running game sucked at times this year, especially when we needed it most, and you argued yourself into contending its all 100% the players' fault and contending we think the Griz should never lose a game ever. Since it is the off-season, I can't wait to see where you take your fantasy construct next.

And you argue like a 12-year-old girl. Not listening (or reading) what's ACTUALLY said, but reading what you WANTED it to say.

Good luck with that. :roll:

 

[PlayerRep]

I don't have the time or interest in going through every post carefully, but I side with AZGrizFan on this.

 

[Grizo406]

I don't have the time or interest in going through every post carefully, but I side with AZGrizFan on this.

Me too, PR!

I'd like to see AZ's football acumen transferred to other message boards. Been waitn' for that for years...sadly, it hasn't happened yet!??!

 

[PlayerRep]

I don't have the time or interest in going through every post carefully, but I side with AZGrizFan on this.

Me too, PR!

I'd like to see AZ's football acumen transferred to other message boards. Been waitn' for that for years...sadly, it hasn't happened yet!??!

For the record, I also agree with Grizo406 on everything he says (unless he were dissing me).

 

[AZGrizFan]

I don't have the time or interest in going through every post carefully, but I side with AZGrizFan on this.

Me too, PR!

I'd like to see AZ's football acumen transferred to other message boards. Been waitn' for that for years...sadly, it hasn't happened yet!??!

Why you sonofa....next time I'm in Missoula, you can buy your OWN one Michelob Ultra Light...

 

[Grizo406]

I don't have the time or interest in going through every post carefully, but I side with AZGrizFan on this.

Me too, PR!

I'd like to see AZ's football acumen transferred to other message boards. Been waitn' for that for years...sadly, it hasn't happened yet!??!

Why you sonofa....next time I'm in Missoula, you can buy your OWN one Michelob Ultra Light...

FWIW, I've also been waitin' on that second beer for years. Sadly, that hasn't happened yet either!

 

[AZGrizFan]

I don't have the time or interest in going through every post carefully, but I side with AZGrizFan on this.

Me too, PR!

I'd like to see AZ's football acumen transferred to other message boards. Been waitn' for that for years...sadly, it hasn't happened yet!??!

Why you sonofa....next time I'm in Missoula, you can buy your OWN one Michelob Ultra Light...

FWIW, I've also been waitin' on that second beer for years. Sadly, that hasn't happened yet either!

FWIW, I'm still waiting on you to drink the four I bought for you that you left behind at the Mo Club. :twisted:

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Let me see if I can explain this so that even you can get it: Just because they're PLAYING, doesn't mean the coach didn't "miss" on the recruit. Do you think it might be even remotely possible that there are players on the team, hell STARTERS even, who aren't as good as the coaches projected they would be at this point in their college careers? Who, at the SAME TIME, have maxed out their potential? Coaches projected a higher ceiling, but they just couldn't achieve it? Doesn't mean they aren't busting their ass, doesn't mean they're not "good"...but it DOES mean that the coach "missed" in their projections of this player's ultimate talent level when they recruited the guy out of high school. Who's fault is that? Anyones? Or is it just the way it is? If recruiting were a perfect science we wouldn't have juniors and seniors on the team who rarely see the field (Marlon Myles, etc). Or players that leave the team (i.e., Hayden Craig, Noah Scarver, etc), or players who never evolve into the worldbeaters' fans/coaches expected (Bo Tully, Sean Murray, etc)...the examples are endless. And as I was very clear on earlier, this is neither 100% a coaching/recruiting problem, nor a 100% player problem. There's enough "blame" to go around....fact remains, you could take NDSU's entire coaching staff (from last year), insert them into the University of Montana and we STILL wouldn't win the title every year like you seem to expect.

You argue like a jilted college girl: emotional, illogical, unable to stay on point and make up what you think others are saying. This all started with a simple agreeing with UofMman that our running game sucked at times this year, especially when we needed it most, and you argued yourself into contending its all 100% the players' fault and contending we think the Griz should never lose a game ever. Since it is the off-season, I can't wait to see where you take your fantasy construct next.

And you argue like a 12-year-old girl. Not listening (or reading) what's ACTUALLY said, but reading what you WANTED it to say.

Good luck with that. :roll:

Awww. Imitation, the sincerest form of flattery. I thought I sensed you had a little man crush going. Next I suppose you'll want to know what kind of car I drive and beer I drink.

 

[Grizo406]

Me too, PR!

I'd like to see AZ's football acumen transferred to other message boards. Been waitn' for that for years...sadly, it hasn't happened yet!??!

Why you sonofa....next time I'm in Missoula, you can buy your OWN one Michelob Ultra Light...

FWIW, I've also been waitin' on that second beer for years. Sadly, that hasn't happened yet either!

FWIW, I'm still waiting on you to drink the four I bought for you that you left behind at the Mo Club. :twisted:

FWIW, about two days ago, I finished that last one. It took me a while to get it done, but I did!

Now, I'm thirsty...again! arty:

 

[AZGrizFan]

Why you sonofa....next time I'm in Missoula, you can buy your OWN one Michelob Ultra Light...

FWIW, I've also been waitin' on that second beer for years. Sadly, that hasn't happened yet either!

FWIW, I'm still waiting on you to drink the four I bought for you that you left behind at the Mo Club. :twisted:

FWIW, about two days ago, I finished that last one. It took me a while to get it done, but I did!

Now, I'm thirsty...again! arty:

Alright. I'm on it. :thumb: