O-line from the O-line

[kemajic]

UM gave up 6 sacks in first 4 games, including UW, West. Ill, CP and EWU. Humphrey got hurt at end of game 4.

Brown was sacked 8 times (4 each game) in the next two games.

Humphrey was sacked 5 times against NCU Cats, but UM won games. Brown sacked once against JMU, and UM lost game.

The sack numbers sans Brown are actually quite good. It's been well documented that Brown holds the ball too long, refuses to throw it away and even took sacks on the last two plays of losing to SacSt, letting the clock run out.

 

[SoldierGriz]

UM gave up 6 sacks in first 4 games, including UW, West. Ill, CP and EWU. Humphrey got hurt at end of game 4.

Brown was sacked 8 times (4 each game) in the next two games.

Humphrey was sacked 5 times against NCU Cats, but UM won games. Brown sacked once against JMU, and UM lost game.

The sack numbers sans Brown are actually quite good. It's been well documented that Brown holds the ball too long, refuses to throw it away and even took sacks on the last two plays of losing to SacSt, letting the clock run out.

33 sacks allowed was 82nd in the nation...contrast with NDSU and SDSU with 17 each. Quite good?

 

[kemajic]

The sack numbers sans Brown are actually quite good. It's been well documented that Brown holds the ball too long, refuses to throw it away and even took sacks on the last two plays of losing to SacSt, letting the clock run out.

33 sacks allowed was 82nd in the nation...contrast with NDSU and SDSU with 17 each. Quite good?

I guess you missed the point about the 8 from Brown. Maybe the word "sans" was too much. Or the point just doesn't fit your narrative. Comparing to run-first teams in a year when we had no running game is a big stretch, too.

 

[SoldierGriz]

33 sacks allowed was 82nd in the nation...contrast with NDSU and SDSU with 17 each. Quite good?

I guess you missed the point about the 8 from Brown. Maybe the word "sans" was too much. Or the point just doesn't fit your narrative. Comparing to run-first teams in a year when we had no running game is a big stretch, too.

They also played 2 more games than the Griz. EWU only allowed 24...I don't think they are a run first team.

33 sacks allowed in a season and ranked 82nd in the FCS in the category doesn't fit any narrative in the history of football. Not only is it not "quite good," it is most definitely quite bad.

But, hey keep spinning it however you'd like.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I guess you missed the point about the 8 from Brown. Maybe the word "sans" was too much. Or the point just doesn't fit your narrative. Comparing to run-first teams in a year when we had no running game is a big stretch, too.

They also played 2 more games than the Griz. EWU only allowed 24...I don't think they are a run first team.

33 sacks allowed in a season and ranked 82nd in the FCS in the category doesn't fit any narrative in the history of football. Not only is it not "quite good," it is most definitely quite bad.

But, hey keep spinning it however you'd like.

When the first team QB was playing and healthy, in the first 4 games, UM gave up 1.5 sacks per game. That is very good. Humphrey was not healthy after that. Others have pointed the finger at Brown for contributing to sacks. The o-line didn't forget how to block after the first 4 games.

 

[AZGrizFan]

They also played 2 more games than the Griz. EWU only allowed 24...I don't think they are a run first team.

33 sacks allowed in a season and ranked 82nd in the FCS in the category doesn't fit any narrative in the history of football. Not only is it not "quite good," it is most definitely quite bad.

But, hey keep spinning it however you'd like.

When the first team QB was playing and healthy, in the first 4 games, UM gave up 1.5 sacks per game. That is very good. Humphrey was not healthy after that. Others have pointed the finger at Brown for contributing to sacks. The o-line didn't forget how to block after the first 4 games.

It’s a fair point, but that stat is somewhat skewed by quality of completion of two of those four games. CP and WIU were completely overmatched in all facets.

 

[uofmman1122]

When the first team QB was playing and healthy, in the first 4 games, UM gave up 1.5 sacks per game. That is very good. Humphrey was not healthy after that. Others have pointed the finger at Brown for contributing to sacks. The o-line didn't forget how to block after the first 4 games.

It’s a fair point, but that stat is somewhat skewed by quality of completion of two of those four games. CP and WIU were completely overmatched in all facets.

We gave up 4 sacks to Dixie State, who until we played them, was widely considered to be worse than either of those two teams.

I don't mind this whole idea that we need our OL to get better, but the evidence doesn't support the idea that the OL was the primary reason our offense was awful for much of last year.

 

[IdaGriz01]

I guess you missed the point about the 8 from Brown. Maybe the word "sans" was too much. Or the point just doesn't fit your narrative. Comparing to run-first teams in a year when we had no running game is a big stretch, too.

They also played 2 more games than the Griz. EWU only allowed 24...I don't think they are a run first team.

33 sacks allowed in a season and ranked 82nd in the FCS in the category doesn't fit any narrative in the history of football. Not only is it not "quite good," it is most definitely quite bad.

But, hey keep spinning it however you'd like.

Just as a matter of "numbers" interest. Subtracting the 8 sacks suffered by Brown puts the team at 25 Sacks Allowed. Depending upon how you parse the number of games, that puts the Griz rank at something like #70-75 in that category, i.e. well below the middle. You can blame the O-Line or say that none of the Griz QBs were exactly twinkle-toes, or they were not too smart about getting rid of the ball. I suspect a combination of both.

On the flip side, the Griz were #94 (bottom quarter) in Passes Had Intercepted (13 out of 410 attempts in 13 games). That's pretty damn good ... a matter of "pick your poison." A sack is just a sack, and results in lost yardage, which you have a chance to recover from. A pick is a turnover, and sometimes results in 6 for the opponent. Again, "pick your poison."

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Just as a matter of "numbers" interest. Subtracting the 8 sacks suffered by Brown puts the team at 25 Sacks Allowed. Depending upon how you parse the number of games, that puts the Griz rank at something like #70-75 in that category, i.e. well below the middle. You can blame the O-Line or say that none of the Griz QBs were exactly twinkle-toes, or they were not too smart about getting rid of the ball. I suspect a combination of both.

On the flip side, the Griz were #94 (bottom quarter) in Passes Had Intercepted (13 out of 410 attempts in 13 games). That's pretty damn good ... a matter of "pick your poison." A sack is just a sack, and results in lost yardage, which you have a chance to recover from. A pick is a turnover, and sometimes results in 6 for the opponent. Again, "pick your poison."

Well, a sack or an interception aren't the only possible outcomes.

 

[AZDoc]

That is an EVERYONE problem. 3rd and 2 or less on a run, the OL better block. The RB better find the hole. On 3rd and 7, the OC had better not call a run.

Not black and white, imo. Sometimes you need a few yards to get better field goal positioning. Sometimes running the ball is a better option depending on what the defense gives you. Sometimes you need to use clock. Oftentimes you are in four down territory. Many teams use delays and rpo plays on 3rd and 7 to good effect. In the bigger picture, it can also make you less predictable and harder to scheme for going forward, especially if it works.

Oh I totally agree with this. I was just more making a generalizing comment to portray what everyone will complain about this upcoming season, using those specific examples. I do agree with your comment and actually did play the game (RB actually).

 

[poorgriz]

Is this true? You guys haven't had a 1st team Big Sky OL player since Germer returned? That's crazy, especially with the griz tradition.

"He hasn't mentored a 1st Team All BSC conference lineman since his return."

 

[dupuyer griz]

What I learned reading this thread is that if something good happened it was because of the o line and if something bad happened it was everyone else’s fault but the oline. Looks like some people need to learn the difference between a good oline and thinking you have a good oline.

 

[AZGrizFan]

What I learned reading this thread is that if something good happened it was because of the o line and if something bad happened it was everyone else’s fault but the oline. Looks like some people need to learn the difference between a good oline and thinking you have a good oline.

:lol: :lol: Thanks. i wasn’t going to say it, but it’s pretty obvious.

 

[uofmman1122]

Is this true? You guys haven't had a 1st team Big Sky OL player since Germer returned? That's crazy, especially with the griz tradition.

"He hasn't mentored a 1st Team All BSC conference lineman since his return."

David Reese was 1st team all-conference in 2017.

It's funny how facts keep muddling this whole argument up.

 

[EverettGriz]

It’s fcs football. If your largest questions every single year aren’t your OLine and your Dline, your team has REAL problems.

FWIW, I truly think that the QB not having to turn around and introduce himself to the RB behind him every down this year is going to make a huge difference. RBs play a massive role in pass pro, and having someone other than your true freshman/converted WR 7th string running back out there will be a significant improvement.

Additionally, all-American RBs have a tendency to make OLines look pretty damn good in the run game.


I think we’ll be just fine.

 

[AZGrizFan]

It’s fcs football. If your largest questions every single year aren’t your OLine and your Dline, your team has REAL problems.

FWIW, I truly think that the QB not having to turn around and introduce himself to the RB behind him every down this year is going to make a huge difference. RBs play a massive role in pass pro, and having someone other than your true freshman/converted WR 7th string running back out there will be a significant improvement.

Additionally, all-American RBs have a tendency to make OLines look pretty damn good in the run game.


I think we’ll be just fine.

I hope you’re right. I’m gonna step back and wait and see. No more comment from me on the O-line. :thumb:

 

[mthoopsfan]

Is this true? You guys haven't had a 1st team Big Sky OL player since Germer returned? That's crazy, especially with the griz tradition.

"He hasn't mentored a 1st Team All BSC conference lineman since his return."

So there have been 6 first team o-lineman in the 3 years that Hauck/Germer have returned, and the cupboard was fairly bare when they returned, and you think this is a big deal? Look at the number of teams in the confernce.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Is this true? You guys haven't had a 1st team Big Sky OL player since Germer returned? That's crazy, especially with the griz tradition.

"He hasn't mentored a 1st Team All BSC conference lineman since his return."

So there have been 15 first team o-lineman in the 3 years that Hauck/Germer have returned, and the cupboard was fairly bare when they returned, and you think this is a big deal? Look at the number of teams in the conference. Have the Cats had 2?

 

[SoldierGriz]

Is this true? You guys haven't had a 1st team Big Sky OL player since Germer returned? That's crazy, especially with the griz tradition.

"He hasn't mentored a 1st Team All BSC conference lineman since his return."

So there have been 15 first team o-lineman in the 3 years that Hauck/Germer have returned, and the cupboard was fairly bare when they returned, and you think this is a big deal? Look at the number of teams in the conference. Have the Cats had 2?

There have been dozens of first team linemen from the Griz since yesterday.

:lol:

 

[SoldierGriz]

It’s fcs football. If your largest questions every single year aren’t your OLine and your Dline, your team has REAL problems.

FWIW, I truly think that the QB not having to turn around and introduce himself to the RB behind him every down this year is going to make a huge difference. RBs play a massive role in pass pro, and having someone other than your true freshman/converted WR 7th string running back out there will be a significant improvement.

Additionally, all-American RBs have a tendency to make OLines look pretty damn good in the run game.


I think we’ll be just fine.

What's interesting is it seems o-line and corner are usually the question marks for the Griz. Seems they have turned the corner on corner.

But, agree linemen on both sides are key to chipper chances...run effectively and stop the run.