NY Times article on "Moving Up"

[Jerry Punch]

Read here.

Overall, a pretty good article, but some disingenuous statements from a former UMASS president:

John Lombardi is a past president at UMass and was also the president at Florida and Louisiana State, two F.B.S. football powers. In Lombardi’s view, the recent rush of lesser football programs toward college football’s holy grail is more of an indication that F.C.S. football, the old Division I-AA, does not work.

“Everyone in I-AA loses money and doesn’t get much for it,” Lombardi said. “But even a crummy team in I-A football has higher visibility than a great team in I-AA. So while there are more costs to move up, the universities think that maybe they’ll at least get something for it.

I was unaware that every team at the FCS level loses money. :roll:

Also, the crummy teams in the FBS will probably not be on a national broadcast game throughout the course of the season. The mildly crummy teams will get invites to the lesser bowl games and show up on ESPN2, 3 or U. Which is, at the very least, equivalent to the coverage given to the last 3 rounds of the FCS playoffs and the best teams in the division. To say that they (shitty FBS teams) will get higher visibility is misleading at best.

Your denial is showing. Crummy FBS programs get more exposure because they play other FBS teams, some which are not crummy, that draw large numbers both to their home games and to their TV network. Meanwhile it is not unusual for a BSC team to play before 4000 with no TV network. It's pretty simple to understand. Appy is still better known for beating top 10 Michigan with 100,000+ in attendance plus the Big 10 network TV, than they are for winning 3 straight FCS NCs. Only FCS fans even know the latter, let alone how difficult it is to do, because that's all that was watching.

You must have forgotten to read the last of the article. Your own denial is showing. None of you mover-uppers have ever addressed this point. It's almost like you are using Obama logic to start some massive federal program, have someone ask how we'll pay for it, and then say "we'll figure it out when we get there."

 

[kemajic]

Read here.

Overall, a pretty good article, but some disingenuous statements from a former UMASS president:

John Lombardi is a past president at UMass and was also the president at Florida and Louisiana State, two F.B.S. football powers. In Lombardi’s view, the recent rush of lesser football programs toward college football’s holy grail is more of an indication that F.C.S. football, the old Division I-AA, does not work.

“Everyone in I-AA loses money and doesn’t get much for it,” Lombardi said. “But even a crummy team in I-A football has higher visibility than a great team in I-AA. So while there are more costs to move up, the universities think that maybe they’ll at least get something for it.

I was unaware that every team at the FCS level loses money. :roll:

Also, the crummy teams in the FBS will probably not be on a national broadcast game throughout the course of the season. The mildly crummy teams will get invites to the lesser bowl games and show up on ESPN2, 3 or U. Which is, at the very least, equivalent to the coverage given to the last 3 rounds of the FCS playoffs and the best teams in the division. To say that they (shitty FBS teams) will get higher visibility is misleading at best.

Your denial is showing. Crummy FBS programs get more exposure because they play other FBS teams, some which are not crummy, that draw large numbers both to their home games and to their TV network. Meanwhile it is not unusual for a BSC team to play before 4000 with no TV network. It's pretty simple to understand. Appy is still better known for beating top 10 Michigan with 100,000+ in attendance plus the Big 10 network TV, than they are for winning 3 straight FCS NCs. Only FCS fans even know the latter, let alone how difficult it is to do, because that's all that was watching.

You must have forgotten to read the last of the article. Your own denial is showing. None of you mover-uppers have ever addressed this point. It's almost like you are using Obama logic to start some massive federal program, have someone ask how we'll pay for it, and then say "we'll figure it out when we get there."

I commented here on nothing more than exposure in response to a poster who did not understand the issue. As per your MO, you're extrapolating to attack and work to your point, unable to find fault in what was actually posted.

If the finacial issue is your bag, do some financial research on moving up if you're capable, because you need facts; there is no reason to trust anything you post. A lot of institutions have done their own research and have/are moving up to get away from FCS.

 

[kemajic]

mtgrizrule gonna be a way to long off season!
Make sure to watch Alamo bowl today? Beavs take on Long Horns. Some folks saying Beavs may show up in new uniforms as part of a 2013 rebrand. Apparently uncle Phil is gonna show the Beavsvmore love via cash flow.

,

Pretty bad offseason when I am actually watching these joke of bowl games. OSU is looking great so far. They are up 20-10 with 27 minutes left to play.

I hate watching bowl games, and pray the GRIZ are back in the playoffs just to satisfy my true football love.

Joke of a bowl game? It was an outstanding game. Not an FCS playoff game to match it.

 

[mtgrizrule]

mtgrizrule gonna be a way to long off season!
Make sure to watch Alamo bowl today? Beavs take on Long Horns. Some folks saying Beavs may show up in new uniforms as part of a 2013 rebrand. Apparently uncle Phil is gonna show the Beavsvmore love via cash flow.

,

Pretty bad offseason when I am actually watching these joke of bowl games. OSU is looking great so far. They are up 20-10 with 27 minutes left to play.

I hate watching bowl games, and pray the GRIZ are back in the playoffs just to satisfy my true football love.

Joke of a bowl game? It was an outstanding game. Not an FCS playoff game to match it.

The bowl system is a joke, and yes it was a good game. I will take the playoff format any day over the shitty bowl system, which is a joke.

 

[Jerry Punch]

Kem - I thought your point was and always has been that UM should move up. Exposure is a problem subsequent to actually making the move up. I understand the perceived benefits of moving up and they are not really debatable. But you seem to forget the means to the end and have never explained just what those means would be.

So yes, I extrapolate for your own benefit, since you are seemingly incapable of understanding that the horse goes before the carriage. And Kem, I am encouraged that you wouldn't take my word for it and don't feel obligated to pay attention to anything I say. This point has been made a number of times on this board ad nauseum by many more eloquent a poster than I. I know you want me to recite the facts for you, but we both know very well that they are out there, and that the costs are prohibitive. You can very well accuse me of coming unprepared to support my opinion, but I never noticed a link or a figure supporting yours. Carry on.

By the way, can someone name me another nationally recognized sport here at UM? I'm waiting.

 

[kemajic]

Kem - I thought your point was and always has been that UM should move up. Exposure is a problem subsequent to actually making the move up. I understand the perceived benefits of moving up and they are not really debatable. But you seem to forget the means to the end and have never explained just what those means would be.

So yes, I extrapolate for your own benefit, since you are seemingly incapable of understanding that the horse goes before the carriage. And Kem, I am encouraged that you wouldn't take my word for it and don't feel obligated to pay attention to anything I say. This point has been made a number of times on this board ad nauseum by many more eloquent a poster than I. I know you want me to recite the facts for you, but we both know very well that they are out there, and that the costs are prohibitive. You can very well accuse me of coming unprepared to support my opinion, but I never noticed a link or a figure supporting yours. Carry on.

Teams move up, they don't move down. They are not trying to lose money by doing that. Do you need links for that?

Montana should not move up, but not because the program is incapable. There is insufficient fortitude within UM admin, the BOR and the substantial portion of the fanbase that would rather blow out Pan Handle St. than lose a great game to Wyoming or Utah St. Of course, by staying put, it's actually a slow process of moving down as the traditional competition moves up. That's already been going on for 20 years. Otherwise, how could MSU occasionally become competitive? Not nationally, of course.

 

[Spanky]

Kem....so true. We can only hope that one day we will have an administration with a vision and positive attitude regarding UM athletic programs. Regarding Panhandle, that may be Fullerton's next Big Sky recruit. :thumb:

 

[bearly visible]

What Lombardi conveniently left out in his article was that almost all of the former I-AA teams which moved up are losing money too (Boise is probably an exception). In fact, I will bet they are losing substantially more money than they would have if they had remained in the FCS division. The TV money is just not there for teams like Troy State, Middle Tennessee, or Idaho.

 

[FosterGrant]

Read here.

Overall, a pretty good article, but some disingenuous statements from a former UMASS president:

John Lombardi is a past president at UMass and was also the president at Florida and Louisiana State, two F.B.S. football powers. In Lombardi’s view, the recent rush of lesser football programs toward college football’s holy grail is more of an indication that F.C.S. football, the old Division I-AA, does not work.

“Everyone in I-AA loses money and doesn’t get much for it,” Lombardi said. “But even a crummy team in I-A football has higher visibility than a great team in I-AA. So while there are more costs to move up, the universities think that maybe they’ll at least get something for it.

I was unaware that every team at the FCS level loses money. :roll:

Losing money? Whuzzat?

Griz football program posts $3.3M profit

:lol:

 

[kemajic]

What Lombardi conveniently left out in his article was that almost all of the former I-AA teams which moved up are losing money too (Boise is probably an exception). In fact, I will bet they are losing substantially more money than they would have if they had remained in the FCS division. The TV money is just not there for teams like Troy State, Middle Tennessee, or Idaho.

Some facts to back up your claims would go a long way....

Most universities today are money driven; it was the driving force for their moves up. If they are doing worse financially, why aren't they moving back?

 

[NewPapaBear]

I have what I feel is an educated & informed opinion on "Moving Up." I was at Portland State when it was a D2 powerhouse. During those years PSU set regular season & post season records for largest game attendance during several runs at the D2 title. Including back to back appearances.

In very simple terms, DONT do it! In my humbled opinion...It is fools gold. Especially, given the ever evolving landscape of FBS football & it's member conferences. I would rather be among FCS royalty then be a FBS peasant!

I believe we are headed toward 6-8 mega football conferences at the FBS level, with each having between 16-22 participating member institutions. In fact, recently there has been some discussion about leaving the NCAA behind as a governing body as well.

If these reasons are not enough, I have another 3.3 million reasons that should sway your opinion, if you are sitting on the fence!

I am NPB & I approve this message :thumb:

 

['68griz]

I would rather be among FCS royalty then be a FBS peasant!

:thumb:

This!!

 

[Hammer]

Kem....so true. We can only hope that one day we will have an administration with a vision and positive attitude regarding UM athletic programs. Regarding Panhandle, that may be Fullerton's next Big Sky recruit. :thumb:

Tired old Spanky cookie cutter post. Have you ever posted anything on this board other than this subject? If you have I certainly haven't seen it.

 

[billings_poke]

Does it really matter? the MWC is going to 14 or 16 and there aren't any Western FBS leagues for UM to go to anyway. SHip has sailed to the dismay or relief of many

 

[kemajic]

Does it really matter? the MWC is going to 14 or 16 and there aren't any Western FBS leagues for UM to go to anyway. SHip has sailed to the dismay or relief of many

Agree; we will continue to play BSC road FB games in front of 4000 and Bball games in front of 700.

 

[Hammer]

Does it really matter? the MWC is going to 14 or 16 and there aren't any Western FBS leagues for UM to go to anyway. SHip has sailed to the dismay or relief of many

Agree; we will continue to play BSC road FB games in front of 4000 and Bball games in front of 700.

Kem you are obviously ignorant of the major changes and restructuring of college football that will be happening in the next 3-5 years. You and Spanky can whine all you want about it but a move now by UM would be stupid. Stay tuned, and in the meantime support don't bitch.

 

[TxGriz]

Some facts to back up your claims would go a long way....

Most universities today are money driven; it was the driving force for their moves up. If they are doing worse financially, why aren't they moving back?

Vanity & ego. Being on the big stage, no matter how much of an imposter they may be, just breathing the same air seems to be an opiate to them (a mental picture of a Charlie the Tuna commercial is beginning to take hold).

I am finding the comments from those about the changing landscape of college football the most thought provoking anyway. I am takign a step back and trying to determine which part of this beast is the dog and which part is the tail, and I am not unafraid to think that time could be passing the NCAA by. Big time college football is as much about money as any NFL franchise in all arenas except one: the players.

How long do you think this condition will persist with billions of dollars pushing the other direction and graduation rates that are laughable in the face of the term "student athlete"? With the creation of the BCS we saw the impetus of the haves in this world to separate themselves from the have nots, let those forces work toward a conclusion and then see what's left.

I say do what you are good at and let the rest fall where it may. UM has a 70%+ graduation rate and is competitive and drawing good crowds - don't fix what ain't broke.

 

[Spanky]

Hammer....and what do you contribute to the board other than your Oly drinking habits? As a graduate of UM, I paid my dues....you?

 

[goatcreekgriz]

The problem with this discussion about "moving up" is, as usual, the structure of the university system and the attitude of the Legislature are completely ignored. First, both UM and MSU would have to move up at the same time. Second, as long as the university system includes numerous far-flung campuses offering redundant programs with four-year degrees, resources will be limited. Finally, the Legislature rarely supports funding the university system as it currently exists, and significant changes are unlikely given the attitudes of those elected. So, take a hard look at Wyoming (which has about 60% of the population of Montana) and see how it has been done. While you are making comparisons, take a look a Wyoming's teacher salaries. It is all about priorities and, unless priorities change dramatically at a statewide level, talk about "moving up" is a waste of time. Everyone should be more concerned about scraping together enough money to pay a head coach. Speaking of paying head coaches, what is Dave Doeren up to these days?

 

[Hammer]

Hammer....and what do you contribute to the board other than your Oly drinking habits? As a graduate of UM, I paid my dues....you?

No I took a different route Spanky. The United States Army. So yes I paid my dues, just in a different way.