Not Until 2017 At The Earliest

[Alaska Griz]

Disagree.

1. Loss of Holmes and DC on the d line will hurt but the remainder of DL players return and I expect there will be strong focus to find a juco or transfer

2. LB will reload with Buss, Strahm, and Vis. These three have already shown they're the future.

3. McKinley, Nelson, and Parker will be our main 3 corners and one will step up for the gap left by Harris.

4. Whitted graduates but Rasmussen and Sanders return as well as younger players in Epperly, Delaney, and the new safety from Big Fork whose name is escaping me.

It'll be different but that happens every year. Next years defense will also have the benefit of a very experienced and in-tune offense that will presumably do a few things; score more points on average than this year, have increased TOP, and thus put less pressure on the defense to meet the standard of expectation this year's will have.

I'll anxiously await your new post tomorrow on why the Griz will suck. Let me guess... In state recruiting?

That would be Josh Sandry. I expect him to be the next Colt Anderson.

Sandry actually reminds me of Blaine McElmurry coming out of high school.

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

I just got a PM "warning" from one of our illustrious "moderators". It was in regard to my starting this thread. Here is what he wrote "Atlanta. Enough is Enough. You have made your point now chill out. You are cluttering the site with you constant bitching".

So, I start 4 out of the last 5 threads, all discussing Griz football, all of them very well-posted by others, all of them getting great discussions, and I am "cluttering the site"???? This is why all moderators should resign immediately. They allow the pissing contests between posters to go un-checked, then threaten to ban me because they don't want any poster to rock their little sugar-coated world! This site is Pollyanna any more. We can't even have a good football discussion. They only want flowery B.S. about how everything is back on track and moving forward, when most of the knowledgeable Griz fans know that this is just not true! But don't dare give specific reasons why it isn't true, or dare to be objective. They'll ban your arse! Just keep it to pissing contests and you'll be fine.

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

Funny thing. A post about football may get 7-8 football related responses. An obvious troll 'you suck' thread gets pages. I guess that is good for selling ad space.

Thank you!!! I start football threads, and get a ban warning from a moderator! But they allow 12 pages of pissing contests between 2-3 posters! Pretty revealing about this site and the integrity of its moderators.

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

Disagree.

1. Loss of Holmes and DC on the d line will hurt but the remainder of DL players return and I expect there will be strong focus to find a juco or transfer

2. LB will reload with Buss, Strahm, and Vis. These three have already shown they're the future.

3. McKinley, Nelson, and Parker will be our main 3 corners and one will step up for the gap left by Harris.

4. Whitted graduates but Rasmussen and Sanders return as well as younger players in Epperly, Delaney, and the new safety from Big Fork whose name is escaping me.

It'll be different but that happens every year. Next years defense will also have the benefit of a very experienced and in-tune offense that will presumably do a few things; score more points on average than this year, have increased TOP, and thus put less pressure on the defense to meet the standard of expectation this year's will have.

I'll anxiously await your new post tomorrow on why the Griz will suck. Let me guess... In state recruiting?

I knew you and your boys would answer with all of the great young talent who would be filling the shoes of losing 5 of our 7 D-linemen and LBs. Are you telling me that Holmes (4-year starter) and Crittenden are not the best linemen we have? We lose our top 4 LBs. Did I say that the young LBs were not talented? No, I didn't. But when you replace three starters with young unproven talent, there is no way you don't experience a drop-off in LB play. Hell, some are saying our current LBs are the best group in Griz history! And there is no drop-off next season with 3 new starters????

There is absolutely no way our 2016 defense will be as good as the 2015 defense, which I think will be damned good. I have never said our 2015 is not good. It is the strength of our team, NOT the offense! If Ty knew how to use them better, and was able to make game-time adjustments, they would even be more effective.

I stand firmly by the points I made to open this thread. All the rebuttals have focused on young, unproven players. Nothing is known about a player or a defense until they do it real-time. You don't lose 5 of your starting 7 upper defenders, several who will be All=Conference without a decline in production.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

Every year we go through this. Griz are gonna suck cus we lost three great players or the greatest S or the greatest water boy. Every year somebody steps up and becomes the next great Griz. This is a breakdown for all the DL, LB, and DB that were either All Americans, All Con, or among the statistical leaders for Montana since 1990. Notice there is someone on the list for every year at each position.

Just because a kid is unproven does not mean he will not become a great player and be part of a great defense.

DL Murphy 88-91
Jones 91-94
Turner 91-94
Manzanerez 92-95
Falls 93-96
Reilly 93-96
Thompson 93-96
Bhuler 95-98
Bryant 96-99
Petek 97-00
Martin 97-00
Mertes 98-00
Bush 00-03
Pitcher 00-03
Horgan 01-04
Spencer 02-05
Saenz 02-05
Murphy 03-06
Dloughy 03-06
Beirmann 04-07
Stadnyk 05-08
Mettler 05-08
Palmer 06-09
Campbell 07-10
Featherston 08-11
Alt 09-11
Waldhauser 09-12
Wagenmann 11-14

LB McGowan 87-90
Lembke 89-92
Downs 91-94
Schilling 91-94
Bouche 93-96
Crebo 94-97
Boomer 97-00
Meyers 01-03
McEntyre 02-05
Joyce 04-07
Ryan 04-07
Utterback 04-07
Lebsock 06-09
McSurdy 08-11
Shaw 08-11
Tripp 09-13
Coyle 09-13
Kanangata'a 10-13

DB Dorris 89-92
Erikson 90-93
Franks 92-93
Burke 92-94
McElmurry 93-96
Gaines 95-98
Huntsberger 98-01
Coleman 98-01
Young 99-02
Peoples 01-02
Decoite 00-03
Smith 01-03
Harris 03-06
Thomas 04-07
Anderson 04-08
Shillinger 06-09
Wilson 05-07, 10
Stoll 08-10
Johnson 08-11
Hermanson 11-14

 

[BWahlberg]

Disagree.

1. Loss of Holmes and DC on the d line will hurt but the remainder of DL players return and I expect there will be strong focus to find a juco or transfer

2. LB will reload with Buss, Strahm, and Vis. These three have already shown they're the future.

3. McKinley, Nelson, and Parker will be our main 3 corners and one will step up for the gap left by Harris.

4. Whitted graduates but Rasmussen and Sanders return as well as younger players in Epperly, Delaney, and the new safety from Big Fork whose name is escaping me.

It'll be different but that happens every year. Next years defense will also have the benefit of a very experienced and in-tune offense that will presumably do a few things; score more points on average than this year, have increased TOP, and thus put less pressure on the defense to meet the standard of expectation this year's will have.

I'll anxiously await your new post tomorrow on why the Griz will suck. Let me guess... In state recruiting?

I knew you and your boys would answer with all of the great young talent who would be filling the shoes of losing 5 of our 7 D-linemen and LBs. Are you telling me that Holmes (4-year starter? and Crittenden are not the best linemen we have? We lose our top 4 LBs. Did I say that the young LBs were not talented? No, I didn't. But when you replce three starters with young unproven talent, there is no way you don't experience a drop-off in LB play. Hell, some are saying our current LBs are the best group in Griz history! And there is no drop-off next season with 3 new starters????

There is absolutely no way our 2016 defense will be as good as the 2015 defense, which I think will be damned good. I have never said our 2015 is not good. It is the strength of our team, NOT the offense! If Ty knew how to use them better, and was able to make game-time adjustments, they would even be more effective.

I stand firmly by the points I made to open this thread. All the rebuttals have focused on young, unproven players. Nothing is known about a player or a defense until they do it real-time. You don't lose 5 of your starting 7 upper defenders, several who will be All=Conference without a decline in production.

2013 LB corps of Tripp, Coyle, Kanongata'a went to the 2014 group of Gamboa, Kose, and KVA and we didn't see a drop off. People were saying that 2013 group was the best we've ever had and the best we'll ever see as well. It's happened before as well, 2007 to 2008 was another prime example.

The funny thing about college football is you ALWAYS have to deal with the unknown - kids graduate and move on. You can never have perfectly prepared depth. Fortunately we've got a very good DC who is also our LB's coach and he's bringing this younger backup group along and I have 100% confidence that they'll be ready next year.

Yes we lose our best two D-ends. Last year we lost 3 of 4 D-line starters but the D-line looks good again this year. Develop and plan for the future. Again this group has one of the best coaches at this level to help them along. We'll be good - we can focus on 2016 when we get there.

 

[Htowngriz]

Disagree.

1. Loss of Holmes and DC on the d line will hurt but the remainder of DL players return and I expect there will be strong focus to find a juco or transfer

2. LB will reload with Buss, Strahm, and Vis. These three have already shown they're the future.

3. McKinley, Nelson, and Parker will be our main 3 corners and one will step up for the gap left by Harris.

4. Whitted graduates but Rasmussen and Sanders return as well as younger players in Epperly, Delaney, and the new safety from Big Fork whose name is escaping me.

It'll be different but that happens every year. Next years defense will also have the benefit of a very experienced and in-tune offense that will presumably do a few things; score more points on average than this year, have increased TOP, and thus put less pressure on the defense to meet the standard of expectation this year's will have.

I'll anxiously await your new post tomorrow on why the Griz will suck. Let me guess... In state recruiting?

I knew you and your boys would answer with all of the great young talent who would be filling the shoes of losing 5 of our 7 D-linemen and LBs. Are you telling me that Holmes (4-year starter) and Crittenden are not the best linemen we have? We lose our top 4 LBs. Did I say that the young LBs were not talented? No, I didn't. But when you replace three starters with young unproven talent, there is no way you don't experience a drop-off in LB play. Hell, some are saying our current LBs are the best group in Griz history! And there is no drop-off next season with 3 new starters????

There is absolutely no way our 2016 defense will be as good as the 2015 defense, which I think will be damned good. I have never said our 2015 is not good. It is the strength of our team, NOT the offense! If Ty knew how to use them better, and was able to make game-time adjustments, they would even be more effective.

I stand firmly by the points I made to open this thread. All the rebuttals have focused on young, unproven players. Nothing is known about a player or a defense until they do it real-time. You don't lose 5 of your starting 7 upper defenders, several who will be All=Conference without a decline in production.

Every player is unproven at the college level when they join the team. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

Every year we go through this. Griz are gonna suck cus we lost three great players or the greatest S or the greatest water boy. Every year somebody steps up and becomes the next great Griz. This is a breakdown for all the DL, LB, and DB that were either All Americans, All Con, or among the statistical leaders for Montana since 1990. Notice there is someone on the list for every year at each position.

Just because a kid is unproven does not mean he will not become a great player and be part of a great defense.

DL Murphy 88-91
Jones 91-94
Turner 91-94
Manzanerez 92-95
Falls 93-96
Reilly 93-96
Thompson 93-96
Bhuler 95-98
Bryant 96-99
Petek 97-00
Martin 97-00
Mertes 98-00
Bush 00-03
Pitcher 00-03
Horgan 01-04
Spencer 02-05
Saenz 02-05
Murphy 03-06
Dloughy 03-06
Beirmann 04-07
Stadnyk 05-08
Mettler 05-08
Palmer 06-09
Campbell 07-10
Featherston 08-11
Alt 09-11
Waldhauser 09-12
Wagenmann 11-14

LB McGowan 87-90
Lembke 89-92
Downs 91-94
Schilling 91-94
Bouche 93-96
Crebo 94-97
Boomer 97-00
Meyers 01-03
McEntyre 02-05
Joyce 04-07
Ryan 04-07
Utterback 04-07
Lebsock 06-09
McSurdy 08-11
Shaw 08-11
Tripp 09-13
Coyle 09-13
Kanangata'a 10-13

DB Dorris 89-92
Erikson 90-93
Franks 92-93
Burke 92-94
McElmurry 93-96
Gaines 95-98
Huntsberger 98-01
Coleman 98-01
Young 99-02
Peoples 01-02
Decoite 00-03
Smith 01-03
Harris 03-06
Thomas 04-07
Anderson 04-08
Shillinger 06-09
Wilson 05-07, 10
Stoll 08-10
Johnson 08-11
Hermanson 11-14

Nice job of proving nothing. Bottom line is, you don't lose 7 starters, many of which are 1st or 2nd team All-Conference players, and not have a drop-off the following year. Experience is critical. Name a year in the past 15 seasons where we lost the QUANTITY of starters on defense? Then you might be able to prove your point.

 

[BWahlberg]

Nice job of proving nothing. Bottom line is, you don't lose 7 starters, many of which are 1st or 2nd team All-Conference players, and not have a drop-off the following year. Experience is critical. Name a year in the past 15 seasons where we lost the QUANTITY of starters on defense? Then you might be able to prove your point.

Happened in 2014
Happened in 2009
Happened in 2008
Happened in 2006
Happened in 2003
Happened in 2000

Gosh I mean NEVER you're right

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

Disagree.

1. Loss of Holmes and DC on the d line will hurt but the remainder of DL players return and I expect there will be strong focus to find a juco or transfer

2. LB will reload with Buss, Strahm, and Vis. These three have already shown they're the future.

3. McKinley, Nelson, and Parker will be our main 3 corners and one will step up for the gap left by Harris.

4. Whitted graduates but Rasmussen and Sanders return as well as younger players in Epperly, Delaney, and the new safety from Big Fork whose name is escaping me.

It'll be different but that happens every year. Next years defense will also have the benefit of a very experienced and in-tune offense that will presumably do a few things; score more points on average than this year, have increased TOP, and thus put less pressure on the defense to meet the standard of expectation this year's will have.

I'll anxiously await your new post tomorrow on why the Griz will suck. Let me guess... In state recruiting?

I knew you and your boys would answer with all of the great young talent who would be filling the shoes of losing 5 of our 7 D-linemen and LBs. Are you telling me that Holmes (4-year starter? and Crittenden are not the best linemen we have? We lose our top 4 LBs. Did I say that the young LBs were not talented? No, I didn't. But when you replce three starters with young unproven talent, there is no way you don't experience a drop-off in LB play. Hell, some are saying our current LBs are the best group in Griz history! And there is no drop-off next season with 3 new starters????

There is absolutely no way our 2016 defense will be as good as the 2015 defense, which I think will be damned good. I have never said our 2015 is not good. It is the strength of our team, NOT the offense! If Ty knew how to use them better, and was able to make game-time adjustments, they would even be more effective.

I stand firmly by the points I made to open this thread. All the rebuttals have focused on young, unproven players. Nothing is known about a player or a defense until they do it real-time. You don't lose 5 of your starting 7 upper defenders, several who will be All=Conference without a decline in production.

2013 LB corps of Tripp, Coyle, Kanongata'a went to the 2014 group of Gamboa, Kose, and KVA and we didn't see a drop off. People were saying that 2013 group was the best we've ever had and the best we'll ever see as well. It's happened before as well, 2007 to 2008 was another prime example.

The funny thing about college football is you ALWAYS have to deal with the unknown - kids graduate and move on. You can never have perfectly prepared depth. Fortunately we've got a very good DC who is also our LB's coach and he's bringing this younger backup group along and I have 100% confidence that they'll be ready next year.

Yes we lose our best two D-ends. Last year we lost 3 of 4 D-line starters but the D-line looks good again this year. Develop and plan for the future. Again this group has one of the best coaches at this level to help them along. We'll be good - we can focus on 2016 when we get there.

I do not agree that there was no drop-off when Tripp, Coyle & Kanongata left. There was a significant drop-off. It took the replacements most of the next season to start to play at the level of those three. God, it would be nice to see you be objective for once!

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

Nice job of proving nothing. Bottom line is, you don't lose 7 starters, many of which are 1st or 2nd team All-Conference players, and not have a drop-off the following year. Experience is critical. Name a year in the past 15 seasons where we lost the QUANTITY of starters on defense? Then you might be able to prove your point.

Happened in 2014
Happened in 2009
Happened in 2008
Happened in 2006
Happened in 2003
Happened in 2000

Gosh I mean NEVER you're right

You are incorrect. List them or STFU.

 

[Grizbeer]

Nice job of proving nothing. Bottom line is, you don't lose 7 starters, many of which are 1st or 2nd team All-Conference players, and not have a drop-off the following year. Experience is critical. Name a year in the past 15 seasons where we lost the QUANTITY of starters on defense? Then you might be able to prove your point.

Good to hear, since NDSU lost 7 starters on defense and 4 on offense this year, including all-americans and a Buchanan award winner.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

Nice job of proving nothing. Bottom line is, you don't lose 7 starters, many of which are 1st or 2nd team All-Conference players, and not have a drop-off the following year. Experience is critical. Name a year in the past 15 seasons where we lost the QUANTITY of starters on defense? Then you might be able to prove your point.

Good to hear, since NDSU lost 7 starters on defense and 4 on offense this year, including all-americans and a Buchanan award winner.

Does that mean we will win then? Shit, I'm confused. I thought they were garenteed the victory.

 

[XxSpectrexX]

Defense will balance out across the conference with attrition, NDSU may get a better recruiting class since they are the 4x chumps, but I think that they are at a deficit as far as location...who the heck wants to play there regardless of their accolades?
Stitt will do what Stitt is known for, they have already acknowledged the need to recruit defensively as a priority. He will bring in some guys to tow the line and some specialty players at offense and we will balance out. I do agree that 2017 season will be the visible start of the change and 2018 will be the return of the Griz on a major level.

 

[HookedonGriz]

AtlGriz, i think your problem lies in your delivery. You seem to have a good football mind and offer some interesting insights. When you simply keep it dialed into discussing football, then the topic is usually va
Unable and leads to quality discussion. These are the qualities that lead to thoughtful discussion on this board.

For example, when you come out like this:

"Alright a$$-clowns, you all suck more than our football team, Ralph Engsgrom, ISIS, and Obama combined! Our team sucks, our coaches suck, and most of all you pansy-a$$ wanna-be no-good-for-nothing-football fans suck! I am the end all be all! All things I say and think take precedent over anything else you say or think! Our team will suck until 2017 because everyone and everything in the universe dealing with Griz football sucks. Suck suck suck suck suck suck sucks!!"

Now instead of that, perhaps try the following for more positive effect:

Hey guys, I must admit I'm a little worried about the number of good defensive players we lose next year. I'm worried if some of the younger guys don't get some experience and don't step up, we may be in trouble for the next few years. Thes reasons I feel this way are because we lose so much proven talent from the defensive line and linebacker core. Am I the only one who feels this way? What do some others think? Maybe some of you know more than I do about the young guys in the mix and who could easily step up"

I know the difference is very small between these two deliveries, but does this make any sense

 

[Grisly Fan]

AtlGriz, i think your problem lies in your delivery. You seem to have a good football mind and offer some interesting insights. When you simply keep it dialed into discussing football, then the topic is usually va
Unable and leads to quality discussion. These are the qualities that lead to thoughtful discussion on this board.

For example, when you come out like this:

"Alright a$$-clowns, you all suck more than our football team, Ralph Engsgrom, ISIS, and Obama combined! Our team sucks, our coaches suck, and most of all you pansy-a$$ wanna-be no-good-for-nothing-football fans suck! I am the end all be all! All things I say and think take precedent over anything else you say or think! Our team will suck until 2017 because everyone and everything in the universe dealing with Griz football sucks. Suck suck suck suck suck suck sucks!!"

Now instead of that, perhaps try the following for more positive effect:

Hey guys, I must admit I'm a little worried about the number of good defensive players we lose next year. I'm worried if some of the younger guys don't get some experience and don't step up, we may be in trouble for the next few years. Thes reasons I feel this way are because we lose so much proven talent from the defensive line and linebacker core. Am I the only one who feels this way? What do some others think? Maybe some of you know more than I do about the young guys in the mix and who could easily step up"

I know the difference is very small between these two deliveries, but does this make any sense

You realize that you are trying to reason with a psychotic personality type, right? Wasted key strokes.

 

[grizindabox]

I just got a PM "warning" from one of our illustrious "moderators". It was in regard to my starting this thread. Here is what he wrote "Atlanta. Enough is Enough. You have made your point now chill out. You are cluttering the site with you constant bitching".

So, I start 4 out of the last 5 threads, all discussing Griz football, all of them very well-posted by others, all of them getting great discussions, and I am "cluttering the site"???? This is why all moderators should resign immediately. They allow the pissing contests between posters to go un-checked, then threaten to ban me because they don't want any poster to rock their little sugar-coated world! This site is Pollyanna any more. We can't even have a good football discussion. They only want flowery B.S. about how everything is back on track and moving forward, when most of the knowledgeable Griz fans know that this is just not true! But don't dare give specific reasons why it isn't true, or dare to be objective. They'll ban your arse! Just keep it to pissing contests and you'll be fine.

Here are 3 of your most current threads:

Not Until 2017 at the Earliest
Griz Fans Accept Mediocrity Now
Hurry-up Offense Will Gas Our O-Line

Seems to me that you are barely disguising your personal disdain and rants about the program with just enough football talk so you can use the "All discussing Griz football" mantra.... :roll:

 

[AZGrizFan]

We lose our top 4 LBs. Did I say that the young LBs were not talented? No, I didn't. But when you replace three starters with young unproven talent, there is no way you don't experience a drop-off in LB play. Hell, some are saying our current LBs are the best group in Griz history! And there is no drop-off next season with 3 new starters????

Remember when Tripp, Coyle and Kanongata'a were the best group in Griz history? And then the next year Kose, KVA and Gamboa (who'd gotten VERY little playing time) were even better? And now they're all back? And they'll be replaced next year by Schram, Sirmon, Fa'atuiese, Olson, Thomas, Buss, etc., etc., etc.

And FYI, we typically lose our best D-Linemen every single year. 2013 it was Bienneman, last year it was Waggs and Takai, this year it'll be Holmes and Crittenden, next year it'll be Peevey & Kidder, etc., etc.

 

[Triwest]

I will not make say that until later in the season. Younger players need game experience on D and will get it during the season. Potential is there. Yes at this moment it is only potential but some will step up. Others will be recruited in also. Many of my teams that had me not sleeping at night rose to the challenge when individuals were called upon. There are leaders on the team now that are bringing younger players up.

 

[marceagfan5]

I know, I know, we haven't even played the 2015 season yet, so it is stupid to even discuss next season. I'll save you the keystrokes to tell me this.

But I want to give you concrete reasons why there is no way we will turn things around until 2017, possible not even until 2018.

The reason is DEFENSE, and the lack of it. Our 2016 will be depleted of impact players at many key positions. Our D-line loses its best two players. Our LB corps loses its top 4 players. We lose our best CB and best safety. We will be very young on defense, and our front 7 will be untested and extremely young.

You win with defense. And ours will be the weakest it has been in many years next year. Tell me why I'm wrong, sans the childish name-calling.

Lets see, the Griz have made the playoffs the last two years even with all the "turmoil", you were even seeded in 2013. You play in the Big Sky, which has 3-4 good teams every year, but a lot of dumpster fires and gimme wins. You have a new coach, although unproven at the FCS level, appears to be a good one.

Your offense will improve immediately, regardless of the new system, and no one buys the "we are losing all are talent" argument. Good programs replace talent with other talent, the Griz are a good program where talented players want to play.

The griz will be just fine and have this thing turned around well before 2017 or 2018, c'mon man.