Not FCS but...

[yeager_fan]

Gotta agree with PlayerRep on this one. Move up is a bad a idea for all the reasons he has listed.

 

[WAaggieFan]

Georgia Southern plays 12 games this year. Exactly THREE are on a Wednesday or Thursday night. Two of those three are on ESPNU (plus their Saturday game against App State is on ESPNU). It ain't like the entire conference is relegated to Wednesday nights...talk about much ado about nothing. Looks like Ga Southern and App State have longer term visions than how many people are going to be there Saturday and who would go out. What a ridiculously short-term view of things.

You really think we would get a crowd at Wa Griz on on a Thursday or wed night where it's 40 and raining? Yes maybe it's 4 times a year but that is 2 home games where attendance is MAYBE 10k. Nobody will be able to travel to the game and we will lose the fair weather fans with less wins. I understand what you are saying but as a University we can't afford for the Griz games to be low attended. I never have understood the move up argument. It's gonna cost more, we will lose MORE, fans will choose to do other things MORE, students will care LESS. The risk vs reward is astronomically poor. Even App state and Ga. southern who are success stories are successful because they play really bad FBS teams. I would wager that they have less income from football than they did at 1-AA and fans care less. Much less actually. What's the long term goal? Being 6-5, 7-4? Going to a bowl game played on a Thursday afternoon in Texas in front of 6000 fans? That's not a good goal. You are stepping down from being a proud strong program that has good roots and represents the university and state with pride to a program that is mediocre at best, plays at weird times against programs we don't care about. At least people know Idaho and EWU and Cal Poly from years of play. Nobody will care if we play New Mexico or New Mexico State or Wyoming even. They don't matter and they won't matter in 10 years when we are .500 or less with those teams. Take a dose of reality and realize that we can not and will not complete up a level. Not now, not in 10 years.

Loser talk. The assumption we're going to lose more. The assumption we will suck. The assumption all fans care about is winning. We play 6 CONFERENCE teams in the bottom half of the Massey ratings....we play sucky FCS teams goddamned near every single week. There's two, maybe THREE games all year that even remotely pique my interest. This year it's UNI and EWU. That's it. There's not another team on the schedule worth two shits. We want to call ourselves the Harvard of the West, but we play mostly directional community colleges.....I think we got the "playing really bad...teams" thing down to a science. There's people ON THIS SITE who would rather play Colorado State, Air Force, Utah State, Wyoming, etc., etc., etc., with the chance of losing than to batter overwhelmed teams week in and week out so your statement about "nobody" cares about those programs is flat out wrong.. And as far as "competing up a level", guess what, we get 85 scholarships too...it's not like we have to play these teams with 22 less scholarships. Hell, we ALREADY beat many of these schools for recruits, so I'm not sure why people are so convinced we couldn't complete if we moved up a level...So, pretty much everything you've said is false....

Yep.


The only thing I'd add is that now we get half of those teams against legit DI teams at home. Not only do we not have to watch northern Colorado cow college, but we get to host (and likely beat) a team like Air Force.

I don't generally like to chime in on these sorts of things so please accept my preemptive apologies. But that seems like an odd statement given how well the Griz do with CP's triple option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AZGrizFan]

Also, how do you explain the Thanksgiving weekend attendance? We go from 26,000 to 17,000 in the blink of an eye. It shows you that it’s a secondary priority for allot of fans. I have a really tough time believing most larger programs have a 35% drop in attendance just because its Thanksgiving weekend, but maybe I am wrong. To me, it shows that just over half of the regular attendance is “committed”, and allot of it is susceptible to other issues.

a) last weekend of hunting season
b) students gone for the holiday
c) cold and wintery

None of those apply during the regular season--with exceptional rarity for #c.

I agree with you, and that is exactly my point. It's hunting season, holidays and cold/wintery in many other college venues as well. I just don't think you see a 35% drop in attendance like you do here.

Hunting seasons don't align across states. I'm not sure who you want to compare to, but here's a few examples:

Montana, 2015: 26472, 26065, 26136, 25500, 25014, 25213, 14575 (playoffs, thanksgiving weekend)

Boise State, 2015: 36836, 33868, 35907, 31946, 32780, 30332 (18% drop)
Utah State, 2015: 21209, 22059, 22509, 20964, 18922, 22509 (BYU) (11% drop)
Air Force, 2015: 33734, 22389, 22023, 20213, 37716 (Navy), 20083 (41% drop)
Co State, 2015: 24571, 32500, 26117, 32546, 18125, 15641 (37% drop)
Wyoming, 2015: 23669, 19112, 18723, 17026, 18682, 11149 (Thanksgiving weekend) (53% drop)
San Diego State, 2015: 48785, 18194, 29996, 25898, 36688, 22939 (Thanksgiving weekend) (53% drop)
Nevada, 2015: 21483, 24355, 29551, 20426, 19992, 17215 (20% drop)

So basically, it doesn't matter who Montana plays, the stadium is full. For most of the other teams we'd compete against, it most certainly matters who the opponent is, and we see attendance generally slide from the peak at the beginning of the season all the way through (with a few exceptions here and there). Basing OUR potential attendance on how we (or other schools) do on Thanksgiving weekend just isn't comparing apples to apples, IMHO.

 

[get'em_griz]

Also, how do you explain the Thanksgiving weekend attendance? We go from 26,000 to 17,000 in the blink of an eye. It shows you that it’s a secondary priority for allot of fans. I have a really tough time believing most larger programs have a 35% drop in attendance just because its Thanksgiving weekend, but maybe I am wrong. To me, it shows that just over half of the regular attendance is “committed”, and allot of it is susceptible to other issues.

a) last weekend of hunting season
b) students gone for the holiday
c) cold and wintery

None of those apply during the regular season--with exceptional rarity for #c.

I agree with you, and that is exactly my point. It's hunting season, holidays and cold/wintery in many other college venues as well. I just don't think you see a 35% drop in attendance like you do here.

Hunting seasons don't align across states. I'm not sure who you want to compare to, but here's a few examples:

Montana, 2015: 26472, 26065, 26136, 25500, 25014, 25213, 14575 (playoffs, thanksgiving weekend)

Boise State, 2015: 36836, 33868, 35907, 31946, 32780, 30332 (18% drop)
Utah State, 2015: 21209, 22059, 22509, 20964, 18922, 22509 (BYU) (11% drop)
Air Force, 2015: 33734, 22389, 22023, 20213, 37716 (Navy), 20083 (41% drop)
Co State, 2015: 24571, 32500, 26117, 32546, 18125, 15641 (37% drop)
Wyoming, 2015: 23669, 19112, 18723, 17026, 18682, 11149 (Thanksgiving weekend) (53% drop)
San Diego State, 2015: 48785, 18194, 29996, 25898, 36688, 22939 (Thanksgiving weekend) (53% drop)
Nevada, 2015: 21483, 24355, 29551, 20426, 19992, 17215 (20% drop)

So basically, it doesn't matter who Montana plays, the stadium is full. For most of the other teams we'd compete against, it most certainly matters who the opponent is, and we see attendance generally slide from the peak at the beginning of the season all the way through (with a few exceptions here and there). Basing OUR potential attendance on how we (or other schools) do on Thanksgiving weekend just isn't comparing apples to apples, IMHO.

And attendance does increase after Thanksgiving weekend if we advance in the playoffs with home games.

 

[Raider]

Also, how do you explain the Thanksgiving weekend attendance? We go from 26,000 to 17,000 in the blink of an eye. It shows you that it’s a secondary priority for allot of fans. I have a really tough time believing most larger programs have a 35% drop in attendance just because its Thanksgiving weekend, but maybe I am wrong. To me, it shows that just over half of the regular attendance is “committed”, and allot of it is susceptible to other issues.

a) last weekend of hunting season
b) students gone for the holiday
c) cold and wintery

None of those apply during the regular season--with exceptional rarity for #c.

I agree with you, and that is exactly my point. It's hunting season, holidays and cold/wintery in many other college venues as well. I just don't think you see a 35% drop in attendance like you do here.

Hunting seasons don't align across states. I'm not sure who you want to compare to, but here's a few examples:

Montana, 2015: 26472, 26065, 26136, 25500, 25014, 25213, 14575 (playoffs, thanksgiving weekend)

Boise State, 2015: 36836, 33868, 35907, 31946, 32780, 30332 (18% drop)
Utah State, 2015: 21209, 22059, 22509, 20964, 18922, 22509 (BYU) (11% drop)
Air Force, 2015: 33734, 22389, 22023, 20213, 37716 (Navy), 20083 (41% drop)
Co State, 2015: 24571, 32500, 26117, 32546, 18125, 15641 (37% drop)
Wyoming, 2015: 23669, 19112, 18723, 17026, 18682, 11149 (Thanksgiving weekend) (53% drop)
San Diego State, 2015: 48785, 18194, 29996, 25898, 36688, 22939 (Thanksgiving weekend) (53% drop)
Nevada, 2015: 21483, 24355, 29551, 20426, 19992, 17215 (20% drop)

So basically, it doesn't matter who Montana plays, the stadium is full. For most of the other teams we'd compete against, it most certainly matters who the opponent is, and we see attendance generally slide from the peak at the beginning of the season all the way through (with a few exceptions here and there). Basing OUR potential attendance on how we (or other schools) do on Thanksgiving weekend just isn't comparing apples to apples, IMHO.

That is good info AZ. Interesting.

I was just looking at the University of Minnesota as an example. We must have been thinking along the same lines. They are not exactly an FBS power like the Michigan example I used early, so maybe a better comparison.

They had a game on Thanksgiving weekend last year. It was 22 degrees outside. Don’t know if that’s hunting season for them or not. They average around 50,000 and had 48,000 in attendance for this game. By comparison, it was 35 degrees on Thanksgiving here last year and I remember the drama was in full tilt regarding the weather at the game.

You brought up a good point about hunting season. I may be focusing too much on the weather issue cuz it’s a huge pet peeve of mine.

 

[AZGrizFan]

That is good info AZ. Interesting.

I was just looking at the University of Minnesota as an example. We must have been thinking along the same lines. They are not exactly an FBS power like the Michigan example I used early, so maybe a better comparison.

They had a game on Thanksgiving weekend last year. It was 22 degrees outside. Don’t know if that’s hunting season for them or not. They average around 50,000 and had 48,000 in attendance for this game. By comparison, it was 35 degrees on Thanksgiving here last year and I remember the drama was in full tilt regarding the weather at the game.

You brought up a good point about hunting season. I may be focusing too much on the weather issue cuz it’s a huge pet peeve of mine.

Yeah I looked at Big 10 schools too...not sure that's a fair comparison, to be honest, but even vaunted Michigan went from 113k+ for the Penn State game to just over 100k for the next home game at the end of last season....so it happens to the best of 'em.

 

[EverettGriz]

Weather affects attendance anywhere. Hell, it rains in Seattle -- SEATTLE where it ALWAYS rains -- and attendance at UW falls like a raindrop.

And attendance at the playoff games fall because they're not scheduled months ahead of time.

 

[GrizLA]

You really think we would get a crowd at Wa Griz on on a Thursday or wed night where it's 40 and raining? Yes maybe it's 4 times a year but that is 2 home games where attendance is MAYBE 10k. Nobody will be able to travel to the game and we will lose the fair weather fans with less wins. I understand what you are saying but as a University we can't afford for the Griz games to be low attended. I never have understood the move up argument. It's gonna cost more, we will lose MORE, fans will choose to do other things MORE, students will care LESS. The risk vs reward is astronomically poor. Even App state and Ga. southern who are success stories are successful because they play really bad FBS teams. I would wager that they have less income from football than they did at 1-AA and fans care less. Much less actually. What's the long term goal? Being 6-5, 7-4? Going to a bowl game played on a Thursday afternoon in Texas in front of 6000 fans? That's not a good goal. You are stepping down from being a proud strong program that has good roots and represents the university and state with pride to a program that is mediocre at best, plays at weird times against programs we don't care about. At least people know Idaho and EWU and Cal Poly from years of play. Nobody will care if we play New Mexico or New Mexico State or Wyoming even. They don't matter and they won't matter in 10 years when we are .500 or less with those teams. Take a dose of reality and realize that we can not and will not complete up a level. Not now, not in 10 years.

I agree with much of this. Given where App St and Geo. So. are located, i.e. in the midst of the big boys, I can see benefits for them that UM wouldn't have. UM is a big fish in small pond. App St and GS were little fish in big pond. They have a bit more prestige now. Don't think playing their weak conference and playing on Wed. nights would be much fun, tho. To each his own.

I live a few months out of the year in South Carolina and trust me, Georgia Southern and Appalachian State are no big deal, even in their immediate areas. Hell, there are 13 or so FCS teams within 200 miles from me, and two of them would most certainly be competitive with them. The politics in the South are far different than in the Rocky Mts. UM is just fine where it is. It is highly respected on both, the academic, and, the Athletic sides and that includes the Lady Griz, which, most of us know, are not the same as they were. But reputations are made, not bought.

LA, where to stay/live when you go to SC? My wife and I visited Charleston for several days in August this year. Stayed with a friend. Great city, although it was hot and humid. Name-dropping alert: stayed with my friend Ed Marinaro, runner up for the Heisman back in the day. He fished for a week around Bozeman in July this year. He loves Montana, and fishing.

I just bought a perm place near Orangeburg, equidistant from Columbia and Charleston, in the swamp...Charleston is a must see for anyone interested in the Revolution and Civil War but, yes, humidity is the price. Plus, Charleson and the I 95 corridor are tourist heavy. Where I am, it is Revolutionary War country and appeals to my rural instincts and love of good BBQ! I prefer Columbia to Charleston. Especially preferable when hurricanes hit...but I ain't theah...I'm waitin' fer the Big One.....

 

[IdaGriz01]

Weather affects attendance anywhere. Hell, it rains in Seattle -- SEATTLE where it ALWAYS rains -- and attendance at UW falls like a raindrop.

And attendance at the playoff games fall because they're not scheduled months ahead of time.

Does it really?! Hell, I would have never guessed. :lol: :lol: :lol:

arty: Just don't let it dilute my drink.

 

[PlayerRep]

Then you're not paying attention, which is clearly evident, as I pointed out Kem was an "exception"

You are correct. I try not to pay much attention to you. Occasionally, quick glance at your posts.

 

[garizzalies]

Ditto. You cat trolls are all the same but occasionally I can't help myself

 

[IdaGriz01]

Weather affects attendance anywhere. Hell, it rains in Seattle -- SEATTLE where it ALWAYS rains -- and attendance at UW falls like a raindrop.

And attendance at the playoff games fall because they're not scheduled months ahead of time.

Off topic ... but then, this hasn't been close to topic for awhile.

Topic: RAIN. Date: Dec 16, 2000. Location: Chattanooga, TN. Occasion: FCS championship, Montana vs Georgia Southern.

Rained absolutely like HELL. Feet wet, but poncho working up higher. A piece of paper (program?) covers the drain hole in bottom of the plastic seat and -- after standing for maybe 5 min to scream -- it totally filled with rainwater. Just barely avoided sitting down in 2-3 inches of water. Sadly, the Griz lose (by just 2-pts) after Ah Yat was knocked out of the game. Met some Ga-So fans in the bar afterwards who were very gracious (really!) and admitted that was probably the difference.

Thanks for the memories!

 

[kemajic]

I think playoff games suffer from more than the weather, Thanksgiving and hunting season. Season ticket holders, by the end of the regular season have about shot their wad (energy and finances) with at least six trips and are not very aggressive in securing their seats for post-season. Also, we often play a team no one has even heard of so it's easy to take a game or two off.

 

[AZGrizFan]

a) last weekend of hunting season
b) students gone for the holiday
c) cold and wintery

None of those apply during the regular season--with exceptional rarity for #c.

I agree with you, and that is exactly my point. It's hunting season, holidays and cold/wintery in many other college venues as well. I just don't think you see a 35% drop in attendance like you do here.

Hunting seasons don't align across states. I'm not sure who you want to compare to, but here's a few examples:

Montana, 2015: 26472, 26065, 26136, 25500, 25014, 25213, 14575 (playoffs, thanksgiving weekend)

Boise State, 2015: 36836, 33868, 35907, 31946, 32780, 30332 (18% drop)
Utah State, 2015: 21209, 22059, 22509, 20964, 18922, 22509 (BYU) (11% drop)
Air Force, 2015: 33734, 22389, 22023, 20213, 37716 (Navy), 20083 (41% drop)
Co State, 2015: 24571, 32500, 26117, 32546, 18125, 15641 (37% drop)
Wyoming, 2015: 23669, 19112, 18723, 17026, 18682, 11149 (Thanksgiving weekend) (53% drop)
San Diego State, 2015: 48785, 18194, 29996, 25898, 36688, 22939 (Thanksgiving weekend) (53% drop)
Nevada, 2015: 21483, 24355, 29551, 20426, 19992, 17215 (20% drop)

So basically, it doesn't matter who Montana plays, the stadium is full. For most of the other teams we'd compete against, it most certainly matters who the opponent is, and we see attendance generally slide from the peak at the beginning of the season all the way through (with a few exceptions here and there). Basing OUR potential attendance on how we (or other schools) do on Thanksgiving weekend just isn't comparing apples to apples, IMHO.

That is good info AZ. Interesting.

I was just looking at the University of Minnesota as an example. We must have been thinking along the same lines. They are not exactly an FBS power like the Michigan example I used early, so maybe a better comparison.

They had a game on Thanksgiving weekend last year. It was 22 degrees outside. Don’t know if that’s hunting season for them or not. They average around 50,000 and had 48,000 in attendance for this game. By comparison, it was 35 degrees on Thanksgiving here last year and I remember the drama was in full tilt regarding the weather at the game.

You brought up a good point about hunting season. I may be focusing too much on the weather issue cuz it’s a huge pet peeve of mine.

One more point of reference: The 2012 5-6 Montana Grizzlies: 25126, 24991, 25254, 25684, 24152, 26210. Hmmmm.....maybe it's not THAT important to the fans that the Griz win every game every year to keep 'em coming around....just a thought.

 

[garizzalies]

I'm with ya AZ. The attendance argument from the frogs is so lame. Worst case scenario, which I don't believe, but let's just assume for the sake of argument, what they are basically saying is, "OMG can you imagine how embarrassing it would be to have 17,000 at a home game? No thanks, I'd rather stay in a league that averages 5,000 per home game."
WTF. Makes no sense at all

 

[Lakerhater]

a) last weekend of hunting season
b) students gone for the holiday
c) cold and wintery

None of those apply during the regular season--with exceptional rarity for #c.

I agree with you, and that is exactly my point. It's hunting season, holidays and cold/wintery in many other college venues as well. I just don't think you see a 35% drop in attendance like you do here.

Hunting seasons don't align across states. I'm not sure who you want to compare to, but here's a few examples:

Montana, 2015: 26472, 26065, 26136, 25500, 25014, 25213, 14575 (playoffs, thanksgiving weekend)

Boise State, 2015: 36836, 33868, 35907, 31946, 32780, 30332 (18% drop)
Utah State, 2015: 21209, 22059, 22509, 20964, 18922, 22509 (BYU) (11% drop)
Air Force, 2015: 33734, 22389, 22023, 20213, 37716 (Navy), 20083 (41% drop)
Co State, 2015: 24571, 32500, 26117, 32546, 18125, 15641 (37% drop)
Wyoming, 2015: 23669, 19112, 18723, 17026, 18682, 11149 (Thanksgiving weekend) (53% drop)
San Diego State, 2015: 48785, 18194, 29996, 25898, 36688, 22939 (Thanksgiving weekend) (53% drop)
Nevada, 2015: 21483, 24355, 29551, 20426, 19992, 17215 (20% drop)

So basically, it doesn't matter who Montana plays, the stadium is full. For most of the other teams we'd compete against, it most certainly matters who the opponent is, and we see attendance generally slide from the peak at the beginning of the season all the way through (with a few exceptions here and there). Basing OUR potential attendance on how we (or other schools) do on Thanksgiving weekend just isn't comparing apples to apples, IMHO.

That is good info AZ. Interesting.

I was just looking at the University of Minnesota as an example. We must have been thinking along the same lines. They are not exactly an FBS power like the Michigan example I used early, so maybe a better comparison.

They had a game on Thanksgiving weekend last year. It was 22 degrees outside. Don’t know if that’s hunting season for them or not. They average around 50,000 and had 48,000 in attendance for this game. By comparison, it was 35 degrees on Thanksgiving here last year and I remember the drama was in full tilt regarding the weather at the game.

You brought up a good point about hunting season. I may be focusing too much on the weather issue cuz it’s a huge pet peeve of mine.

Yo, Raider, I was at that game; they were playing Illinois I believe. If they had 48,000 butts in the seats for that game, a lot of fans disguised themselves as empty seats, but whatever.

 

[Grizbeer]

That is good info AZ. Interesting.

I was just looking at the University of Minnesota as an example. We must have been thinking along the same lines. They are not exactly an FBS power like the Michigan example I used early, so maybe a better comparison.

They had a game on Thanksgiving weekend last year. It was 22 degrees outside. Don’t know if that’s hunting season for them or not. They average around 50,000 and had 48,000 in attendance for this game. By comparison, it was 35 degrees on Thanksgiving here last year and I remember the drama was in full tilt regarding the weather at the game.

You brought up a good point about hunting season. I may be focusing too much on the weather issue cuz it’s a huge pet peeve of mine.

not exactly 35 -low of -6, high of 15 game time temperature in the teens
http://weather1.herald.com/history/airport/KMSO/2015/11/28/DailyHistory.html?req_city=&req_state=&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=

 

[nodak651]

Anyone watching the Arkansas State-Georgia Southern game? Not a horrid game, but an example of where the Griz would end up if they ever moved up ... playing on a Wednesday night, with 5000 people in the stands. Not exactly what I would aspire to.

Speaking of empty stadiums, how about SacSt's Saturday...it looked like only parents were there. It's not like the BSC features good attendance outside MT. We'll likely see 4000 again when we play in Greeley.

Saw this picture and remembered reading this thread. Pretty impressed with Sac State this past weekend against us... 9,500ish. They need to get their cameraman on the other side of the stadium, because it still looked EMPTY on tv.

 

[Grizzlies1982]

Average age in this group has got to be pushing 72. All of your posts are basically fear mongering againt change.
I realize you all want to live out your days resisting all change, but your personal FB preferences are really not what's best for the U and the state as a whole.
If you're not growing, you're dying.....but I guess when you got one foot in the grave already..........ah never mind, I'm gonna stop talking now before one of you get all worked up and tips over

You might be right about age being one of the differentials separating many of those who want FBS vs. those who see the problems.

Inexperienced youth is often prone to jump into action without thinking. In this case I don't think we ought to hand the keys over to the whiskey fueled youth anxious to sent Grizzly football into the financial abyss.

The move will come some day after the overall FBS reorganization as the Big 5 dump everyone else. It just isn't the proper time now for Montana to jump into it. :ugeek:

 

[AZGrizFan]

Average age in this group has got to be pushing 72. All of your posts are basically fear mongering againt change.
I realize you all want to live out your days resisting all change, but your personal FB preferences are really not what's best for the U and the state as a whole.
If you're not growing, you're dying.....but I guess when you got one foot in the grave already..........ah never mind, I'm gonna stop talking now before one of you get all worked up and tips over

You might be right about age being one of the differentials separating many of those who want FBS vs. those who see the problems.

Inexperienced youth is often prone to jump into action without thinking. In this case I don't think we ought to hand the keys over to the whiskey fueled youth anxious to sent Grizzly football into the financial abyss.

The move will come some day after the overall FBS reorganization as the Big 5 dump everyone else. It just isn't the proper time now for Montana to jump into it. :ugeek:

I'm 54 and I fully support moving up. I hardly define "inexperienced youth prone to jump into action without thinking". :lol: