Not FCS but...

[IdaGriz01]

If we could get away from the futile "move up ... move down" BS, there's a very entertaining track meeting going on over on CBS (DTV 221), where the score is 35-24, LA-Tech over W Kentucky at the half. With 59 points scored in a half, it's pretty obvious neither team has any concept about defense. :lol: :lol:

 

[IdaGriz01]

If we could get away from the futile "move up ... move down" BS, there's a very entertaining track meeting going on over on CBS (DTV 221), where the score is 35-24, LA-Tech over W Kentucky at the half. With 59 points scored in a half, it's pretty obvious neither team has any concept about defense. :lol: :lol:

Now sitting at 107 points (55-52 LA-Tech) ... and it's not over yet (over 2 min to go).

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[IdaGriz01]

Well ... Boo! Hiss!

LA-Tech and WKU scored over 100 points, but came up (just) short of a 1000-yards of total offense between them.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[EverettGriz]

In my opinion we have a somewhat fragile fan base when it comes to attendance. I mean, look at the fluctuation in attendance based on the weather for shit sakes. It’s ridiculous. The Big House (for example) has 100,000+, sun, rain, cold, snow or all the above. Our fans are in panic mode if it’s below 50 degrees outside. I know dozens of long time season ticket holders that make a game time decision, based solely on the weather. Then you add all the ancillary issues like hunting season, travel, holidays, etc., and it gets dicey. And, this is all assuming the Griz are winning.

In short, I think we have less stability in attendance than most of you assume we do......

Meh. Stated as a percentage our fan base is no different -- in fact I'd argue more committed-- than any other.

 

[kemajic]

Average age in this group has got to be pushing 72. All of your posts are basically fear mongering againt change.
I realize you all want to live out your days resisting all change, but your personal FB preferences are really not what's best for the U and the state as a whole.
If you're not growing, you're dying.....but I guess when you got one foot in the grave already..........ah never mind, I'm gonna stop talking now before one of you get all worked up and tips over

You can make your point without age discrimination. The real issue is we are hearing from a lot of posters that have a very visible fear or low tolerance of risk. Change presents a risk and is very scary for many, making it more comfortable to be satisfied without. Of course, real reward is very elusive without risk, so many disregard or, in fact, demonize the potential for reward out of their fear. They often fail to recognize that change can happen beyond their control, the type of change without reward. Sure, the group may trend to be older but that correlation is not complete, so labeling the anti-move group by age is a mistake. I personally know many peers in their 70's that are enormously frustrated with the place in which UM football is stuck and would be champions to take on the risk of change if the reward is the opportunity to see better and more notable teams grace the turf at Washington/Griz Stadium. That doesn't mean they want stupid change. It does mean the status quo is not nearly as ideal as those without the cojones for change would claim.

 

[GrizLA]

Average age in this group has got to be pushing 72. All of your posts are basically fear mongering againt change.
I realize you all want to live out your days resisting all change, but your personal FB preferences are really not what's best for the U and the state as a whole.
If you're not growing, you're dying.....but I guess when you got one foot in the grave already..........ah never mind, I'm gonna stop talking now before one of you get all worked up and tips over

Yeah, maybe, but, I'm old enough and I've seen enough to know what is important in life and "moving up" and adding millions of dollars to a University that is, seemingly, in decline, is not the kind of value I had when I was 18 and it most certainly is not now. But, you can begin to write large checks, pressure your legislature to raise taxes and then, compete with "big" guys who are being frozen out of the big bucks faster than you know. TV receipts 15 years ago are a far cry from what they are today and you cannot rely upon that. Since I have a connection with Stanford and Montana, if forced to choose, would go for excellence and it isn't cheap. So, as a good Montanan, get your legislature to raise taxes and y'awl kin begin to be movin on up....

 

[griz=fun]

In my opinion we have a somewhat fragile fan base when it comes to attendance. I mean, look at the fluctuation in attendance based on the weather for shit sakes. It’s ridiculous. The Big House (for example) has 100,000+, sun, rain, cold, snow or all the above. Our fans are in panic mode if it’s below 50 degrees outside. I know dozens of long time season ticket holders that make a game time decision, based solely on the weather. Then you add all the ancillary issues like hunting season, travel, holidays, etc., and it gets dicey. And, this is all assuming the Griz are winning.

In short, I think we have less stability in attendance than most of you assume we do......

This may be true for those around Missoula. I'm a season ticket holder and make the trip from Billings despite weather or road conditions. Saturday games at WG are a holiday!

With PR on this one. Might be tough to swing Wednesday, Thursday, or even Friday night games. I have a pretty flexible job, but that would be difficult to do consistently. A one off against Wyoming or GSU would be worth it though! Some of those Friday night playoff games in the past have been the best!

Not sure Michigan is a good example. They draw from a much larger population surrounding Ann Arbor than Missoula does. How far are the suburbs of Detroit? I would also bet the per capita discretionary funds for those in Michigan and Ohio to attend games are higher than most people in Montana.

Maybe it's not just about stadium attendance though.

 

[EverettGriz]

Anyone watching the Arkansas State-Georgia Southern game? Not a horrid game, but an example of where the Griz would end up if they ever moved up ... playing on a Wednesday night, with 5000 people in the stands. Not exactly what I would aspire to.

Georgia Southern plays 12 games this year. Exactly THREE are on a Wednesday or Thursday night. Two of those three are on ESPNU (plus their Saturday game against App State is on ESPNU). It ain't like the entire conference is relegated to Wednesday nights...talk about much ado about nothing. Looks like Ga Southern and App State have longer term visions than how many people are going to be there Saturday and who would go out. What a ridiculously short-term view of things.

You really think we would get a crowd at Wa Griz on on a Thursday or wed night where it's 40 and raining? Yes maybe it's 4 times a year but that is 2 home games where attendance is MAYBE 10k. Nobody will be able to travel to the game and we will lose the fair weather fans with less wins. I understand what you are saying but as a University we can't afford for the Griz games to be low attended. I never have understood the move up argument. It's gonna cost more, we will lose MORE, fans will choose to do other things MORE, students will care LESS. The risk vs reward is astronomically poor. Even App state and Ga. southern who are success stories are successful because they play really bad FBS teams. I would wager that they have less income from football than they did at 1-AA and fans care less. Much less actually. What's the long term goal? Being 6-5, 7-4? Going to a bowl game played on a Thursday afternoon in Texas in front of 6000 fans? That's not a good goal. You are stepping down from being a proud strong program that has good roots and represents the university and state with pride to a program that is mediocre at best, plays at weird times against programs we don't care about. At least people know Idaho and EWU and Cal Poly from years of play. Nobody will care if we play New Mexico or New Mexico State or Wyoming even. They don't matter and they won't matter in 10 years when we are .500 or less with those teams. Take a dose of reality and realize that we can not and will not complete up a level. Not now, not in 10 years.

Loser talk. The assumption we're going to lose more. The assumption we will suck. The assumption all fans care about is winning. We play 6 CONFERENCE teams in the bottom half of the Massey ratings....we play sucky FCS teams goddamned near every single week. There's two, maybe THREE games all year that even remotely pique my interest. This year it's UNI and EWU. That's it. There's not another team on the schedule worth two shits. We want to call ourselves the Harvard of the West, but we play mostly directional community colleges.....I think we got the "playing really bad...teams" thing down to a science. There's people ON THIS SITE who would rather play Colorado State, Air Force, Utah State, Wyoming, etc., etc., etc., with the chance of losing than to batter overwhelmed teams week in and week out so your statement about "nobody" cares about those programs is flat out wrong.. And as far as "competing up a level", guess what, we get 85 scholarships too...it's not like we have to play these teams with 22 less scholarships. Hell, we ALREADY beat many of these schools for recruits, so I'm not sure why people are so convinced we couldn't complete if we moved up a level...So, pretty much everything you've said is false....

Yep.


The only thing I'd add is that now we get half of those teams against legit DI teams at home. Not only do we not have to watch northern Colorado cow college, but we get to host (and likely beat) a team like Air Force.

 

[AZGrizFan]

With PR on this one. Might be tough to swing Wednesday, Thursday, or even Friday night games. I have a pretty flexible job, but that would be difficult to do consistently. A one off against Wyoming or GSU would be worth it though! Some of those Friday night playoff games in the past have been the best!

Maybe it's not just about stadium attendance though.

a) Again, it's not "consistently". GSU has a total of three "non-Saturday" games out of 12. And one of those was a road game...
b) "Maybe it's not just about stadium attendance though." Uh, unless you're PR, for whom apparently it's ALL about attendance on next Saturday's game, with zero vision or foresight as to what short-term sacrifice might bring.

And Kem's post about risk/reward is spot ON. Change WILL happen, it's whether its planned and there's a reward associated with it, or it happens in spite of digging your heals in and resisting it at all costs--with no reward.

 

[Raider]

In my opinion we have a somewhat fragile fan base when it comes to attendance. I mean, look at the fluctuation in attendance based on the weather for shit sakes. It’s ridiculous. The Big House (for example) has 100,000+, sun, rain, cold, snow or all the above. Our fans are in panic mode if it’s below 50 degrees outside. I know dozens of long time season ticket holders that make a game time decision, based solely on the weather. Then you add all the ancillary issues like hunting season, travel, holidays, etc., and it gets dicey. And, this is all assuming the Griz are winning.

In short, I think we have less stability in attendance than most of you assume we do......

Meh. Stated as a percentage our fan base is no different -- in fact I'd argue more committed-- than any other.

Do you honestly believe that? I wish I did.

Again, look at the weather issue. It’s been commented on how many times in this thread alone? “How many fans would attend a Thursday game when its 40 degrees and raining”. Our fans base is big time sensitive when it comes to the weather (which is why I start those sarcastic threads), and I just don’t see that with other fan bases.

Also, how do you explain the Thanksgiving weekend attendance? We go from 26,000 to 17,000 in the blink of an eye. It shows you that it’s a secondary priority for allot of fans. I have a really tough time believing most larger programs have a 35% drop in attendance just because its Thanksgiving weekend, but maybe I am wrong. To me, it shows that just over half of the regular attendance is “committed”, and allot of it is susceptible to other issues.

 

[PlayerRep]

In my opinion we have a somewhat fragile fan base when it comes to attendance. I mean, look at the fluctuation in attendance based on the weather for shit sakes. It’s ridiculous. The Big House (for example) has 100,000+, sun, rain, cold, snow or all the above. Our fans are in panic mode if it’s below 50 degrees outside. I know dozens of long time season ticket holders that make a game time decision, based solely on the weather. Then you add all the ancillary issues like hunting season, travel, holidays, etc., and it gets dicey. And, this is all assuming the Griz are winning.

In short, I think we have less stability in attendance than most of you assume we do......

Meh. Stated as a percentage our fan base is no different -- in fact I'd argue more committed-- than any other.

Do you honestly believe that? I wish I did.

Again, look at the weather issue. It’s been commented on how many times in this thread alone? “How many fans would attend a Thursday game when its 40 degrees and raining”. Our fans base is big time sensitive when it comes to the weather (which is why I start those sarcastic threads), and I just don’t see that with other fan bases.

Also, how do you explain the Thanksgiving weekend attendance? We go from 26,000 to 17,000 in the blink of an eye. It shows you that it’s a secondary priority for allot of fans. I have a really tough time believing most larger programs have a 35% drop in attendance just because its Thanksgiving weekend, but maybe I am wrong. To me, it shows that just over half of the regular attendance is “committed”, and allot of it is susceptible to other issues.

And the low attendance due to weather for the Coastal playoff game? That was a huge and exciting game, and lots of people didn't come.

Rain is one of the biggest factors. People don't like to sit in heavy rain, especially if it's cool or cold.

 

[PlayerRep]

Georgia Southern plays 12 games this year. Exactly THREE are on a Wednesday or Thursday night. Two of those three are on ESPNU (plus their Saturday game against App State is on ESPNU). It ain't like the entire conference is relegated to Wednesday nights...talk about much ado about nothing. Looks like Ga Southern and App State have longer term visions than how many people are going to be there Saturday and who would go out. What a ridiculously short-term view of things.

You really think we would get a crowd at Wa Griz on on a Thursday or wed night where it's 40 and raining? Yes maybe it's 4 times a year but that is 2 home games where attendance is MAYBE 10k. Nobody will be able to travel to the game and we will lose the fair weather fans with less wins. I understand what you are saying but as a University we can't afford for the Griz games to be low attended. I never have understood the move up argument. It's gonna cost more, we will lose MORE, fans will choose to do other things MORE, students will care LESS. The risk vs reward is astronomically poor. Even App state and Ga. southern who are success stories are successful because they play really bad FBS teams. I would wager that they have less income from football than they did at 1-AA and fans care less. Much less actually. What's the long term goal? Being 6-5, 7-4? Going to a bowl game played on a Thursday afternoon in Texas in front of 6000 fans? That's not a good goal. You are stepping down from being a proud strong program that has good roots and represents the university and state with pride to a program that is mediocre at best, plays at weird times against programs we don't care about. At least people know Idaho and EWU and Cal Poly from years of play. Nobody will care if we play New Mexico or New Mexico State or Wyoming even. They don't matter and they won't matter in 10 years when we are .500 or less with those teams. Take a dose of reality and realize that we can not and will not complete up a level. Not now, not in 10 years.

I agree with much of this. Given where App St and Geo. So. are located, i.e. in the midst of the big boys, I can see benefits for them that UM wouldn't have. UM is a big fish in small pond. App St and GS were little fish in big pond. They have a bit more prestige now. Don't think playing their weak conference and playing on Wed. nights would be much fun, tho. To each his own.

I live a few months out of the year in South Carolina and trust me, Georgia Southern and Appalachian State are no big deal, even in their immediate areas. Hell, there are 13 or so FCS teams within 200 miles from me, and two of them would most certainly be competitive with them. The politics in the South are far different than in the Rocky Mts. UM is just fine where it is. It is highly respected on both, the academic, and, the Athletic sides and that includes the Lady Griz, which, most of us know, are not the same as they were. But reputations are made, not bought.

LA, where to stay/live when you go to SC? My wife and I visited Charleston for several days in August this year. Stayed with a friend. Great city, although it was hot and humid. Name-dropping alert: stayed with my friend Ed Marinaro, runner up for the Heisman back in the day. He fished for a week around Bozeman in July this year. He loves Montana, and fishing.

 

[PlayerRep]

Average age in this group has got to be pushing 72. All of your posts are basically fear mongering againt change.
I realize you all want to live out your days resisting all change, but your personal FB preferences are really not what's best for the U and the state as a whole.
If you're not growing, you're dying.....but I guess when you got one foot in the grave already..........ah never mind, I'm gonna stop talking now before one of you get all worked up and tips over

You can make your point without age discrimination. The real issue is we are hearing from a lot of posters that have a very visible fear or low tolerance of risk. Change presents a risk and is very scary for many, making it more comfortable to be satisfied without. Of course, real reward is very elusive without risk, so many disregard or, in fact, demonize the potential for reward out of their fear. They often fail to recognize that change can happen beyond their control, the type of change without reward. Sure, the group may trend to be older but that correlation is not complete, so labeling the anti-move group by age is a mistake. I personally know many peers in their 70's that are enormously frustrated with the place in which UM football is stuck and would be champions to take on the risk of change if the reward is the opportunity to see better and more notable teams grace the turf at Washington/Griz Stadium. That doesn't mean they want stupid change. It does mean the status quo is not nearly as ideal as those without the cojones for change would claim.

I am not in favor of moving up, and I don't have a low risk tolerance. I don't think it's right for you to characterize most of the opposition as having a low risk tolerance.That's not the biggest reason for the opposition. Moving up, in the past and now, just makes no sense. If you want to blame it on low risk tolerance, then I will call the mover-upper crowd reckless. They would jeopardize UM football, and perhaps even the university, for a risky venture that would have a decent chance of failure. At a time of declining attendance and revenue, why would resources be shifted to athletics to fund moving up? The academic side of the university would oppose it, and literally go ballistic.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Also, how do you explain the Thanksgiving weekend attendance? We go from 26,000 to 17,000 in the blink of an eye. It shows you that it’s a secondary priority for allot of fans. I have a really tough time believing most larger programs have a 35% drop in attendance just because its Thanksgiving weekend, but maybe I am wrong. To me, it shows that just over half of the regular attendance is “committed”, and allot of it is susceptible to other issues.

a) last weekend of hunting season
b) students gone for the holiday
c) cold and wintery

None of those apply during the regular season--with exceptional rarity for #c.

 

[Raider]

In my opinion we have a somewhat fragile fan base when it comes to attendance. I mean, look at the fluctuation in attendance based on the weather for shit sakes. It’s ridiculous. The Big House (for example) has 100,000+, sun, rain, cold, snow or all the above. Our fans are in panic mode if it’s below 50 degrees outside. I know dozens of long time season ticket holders that make a game time decision, based solely on the weather. Then you add all the ancillary issues like hunting season, travel, holidays, etc., and it gets dicey. And, this is all assuming the Griz are winning.

In short, I think we have less stability in attendance than most of you assume we do......

Meh. Stated as a percentage our fan base is no different -- in fact I'd argue more committed-- than any other.

Do you honestly believe that? I wish I did.

Again, look at the weather issue. It’s been commented on how many times in this thread alone? “How many fans would attend a Thursday game when its 40 degrees and raining”. Our fans base is big time sensitive when it comes to the weather (which is why I start those sarcastic threads), and I just don’t see that with other fan bases.

Also, how do you explain the Thanksgiving weekend attendance? We go from 26,000 to 17,000 in the blink of an eye. It shows you that it’s a secondary priority for allot of fans. I have a really tough time believing most larger programs have a 35% drop in attendance just because its Thanksgiving weekend, but maybe I am wrong. To me, it shows that just over half of the regular attendance is “committed”, and allot of it is susceptible to other issues.

And the low attendance due to weather for the Coastal playoff game? That was a huge and exciting game, and lots of people didn't come.

Rain is one of the biggest factors. People don't like to sit in heavy rain, especially if it's cool or cold.

Exactly!

 

[garizzalies]

Average age in this group has got to be pushing 72. All of your posts are basically fear mongering againt change.
I realize you all want to live out your days resisting all change, but your personal FB preferences are really not what's best for the U and the state as a whole.
If you're not growing, you're dying.....but I guess when you got one foot in the grave already..........ah never mind, I'm gonna stop talking now before one of you get all worked up and tips over

You can make your point without age discrimination. The real issue is we are hearing from a lot of posters that have a very visible fear or low tolerance of risk. Change presents a risk and is very scary for many, making it more comfortable to be satisfied without. Of course, real reward is very elusive without risk, so many disregard or, in fact, demonize the potential for reward out of their fear. They often fail to recognize that change can happen beyond their control, the type of change without reward. Sure, the group may trend to be older but that correlation is not complete, so labeling the anti-move group by age is a mistake. I personally know many peers in their 70's that are enormously frustrated with the place in which UM football is stuck and would be champions to take on the risk of change if the reward is the opportunity to see better and more notable teams grace the turf at Washington/Griz Stadium. That doesn't mean they want stupid change. It does mean the status quo is not nearly as ideal as those without the cojones for change would claim.

It's not age discrimination as I took no action. They're just words. Facts, actually. A huge percentage of the anti-move up crowd are old as dirt. I've tried to make the point without being so crude but it falls on deaf ears (or maybe they just turn off their hearing aides). You're an exception; one of the few septarians that get it. Silvertip, too.
It needs to be said. They are possibly the best supporting group of Griz nation but have grown too selfish in their old age to see what is best. I find it really ironic on multiple levels

 

[Raider]

Also, how do you explain the Thanksgiving weekend attendance? We go from 26,000 to 17,000 in the blink of an eye. It shows you that it’s a secondary priority for allot of fans. I have a really tough time believing most larger programs have a 35% drop in attendance just because its Thanksgiving weekend, but maybe I am wrong. To me, it shows that just over half of the regular attendance is “committed”, and allot of it is susceptible to other issues.

a) last weekend of hunting season
b) students gone for the holiday
c) cold and wintery

None of those apply during the regular season--with exceptional rarity for #c.

I agree with you, and that is exactly my point. It's hunting season, holidays and cold/wintery in many other college venues as well. I just don't think you see a 35% drop in attendance like you do here.

 

[PlayerRep]

Average age in this group has got to be pushing 72. All of your posts are basically fear mongering againt change.
I realize you all want to live out your days resisting all change, but your personal FB preferences are really not what's best for the U and the state as a whole.
If you're not growing, you're dying.....but I guess when you got one foot in the grave already..........ah never mind, I'm gonna stop talking now before one of you get all worked up and tips over

You can make your point without age discrimination. The real issue is we are hearing from a lot of posters that have a very visible fear or low tolerance of risk. Change presents a risk and is very scary for many, making it more comfortable to be satisfied without. Of course, real reward is very elusive without risk, so many disregard or, in fact, demonize the potential for reward out of their fear. They often fail to recognize that change can happen beyond their control, the type of change without reward. Sure, the group may trend to be older but that correlation is not complete, so labeling the anti-move group by age is a mistake. I personally know many peers in their 70's that are enormously frustrated with the place in which UM football is stuck and would be champions to take on the risk of change if the reward is the opportunity to see better and more notable teams grace the turf at Washington/Griz Stadium. That doesn't mean they want stupid change. It does mean the status quo is not nearly as ideal as those without the cojones for change would claim.

It's not age discrimination as I took no action. They're just words. Facts, actually. A huge percentage of the anti-move up crowd are old as dirt. I've tried to make the point without being so crude but it falls on deaf ears (or maybe they just turn off their hearing aides). You're an exception; one of the few septarians that get it. Silvertip, too.
It needs to be said. They are possibly the best supporting group of Griz nation but have grown too selfish in their old age to see what is best. I find it really ironic on multiple levels

Kem is old as dirt, and he's pretty much a mover-upper. I don't find age to be a factor in determining which side of the fence are on.

 

[garizzalies]

Then you're not paying attention, which is clearly evident, as I pointed out Kem was an "exception"

 

[PlayerRep]

Also, how do you explain the Thanksgiving weekend attendance? We go from 26,000 to 17,000 in the blink of an eye. It shows you that it’s a secondary priority for allot of fans. I have a really tough time believing most larger programs have a 35% drop in attendance just because its Thanksgiving weekend, but maybe I am wrong. To me, it shows that just over half of the regular attendance is “committed”, and allot of it is susceptible to other issues.

a) last weekend of hunting season
b) students gone for the holiday
c) cold and wintery

None of those apply during the regular season--with exceptional rarity for #c.

I agree with you, and that is exactly my point. It's hunting season, holidays and cold/wintery in many other college venues as well. I just don't think you see a 35% drop in attendance like you do here.

And mid-week games would become yet another factor. And not being in position to contend for the conference championship, at all or as much, would become another factor. And not having the chance to get into the playoffs and not having home playoff games would be more large factors. And not winning most games, and thus changing the game day experience, would also be a factor eventually, at least for some. And, while some fans get off on playing the likes of Colo. St. and Wyo, some of us don't. I doubt that fans like my wife and her friends care too much about who we're playing, as long as lots of people are coming, it's lots of fun, and the weather is good.