New Legend of the Fall?

[Ursus1]

Might be a good idea to beat the Bobcats first.

No shit....the current staff has not shown the capability to come remotely close to a playoff run let alone 2 National Championships. Cart wayyyyyy before the horse.

1-1 vs MSU and 1-1 in the post season w/ the loss coming against eventual national champion NDSU. I'd say we're atleast hooking the horse up to the cart at this point. 'Course everyone's got an opinion. I'm also guessing by "current staff", your meaning minus TG.

Not necessarily TG, but Semore has not proven he can do anything near championship run caliber defenses and Neikamps special teams are bottom of BSC level and that won't cut it in playoffs (after 2 and 1/2 seasons in charge). Perhaps they both will start to improve dramatically which need to to take the next step...but after EWU game and last year's Cat game it is a leap at this point.

A .500 record against MSU (with a downward trend) is not something to be excited about as far as chances of 2 championships in next 4 years.....

 

[Htowngriz]

Might be a good idea to beat the Bobcats first.

No shit....the current staff has not shown the capability to come remotely close to a playoff run let alone 2 National Championships. Cart wayyyyyy before the horse.

1-1 vs MSU and 1-1 in the post season w/ the loss coming against eventual national champion NDSU. I'd say we're atleast hooking the horse up to the cart at this point. 'Course everyone's got an opinion. I'm also guessing by "current staff", your meaning minus TG.

Not necessarily TG, but Semore has not proven he can do anything near championship run caliber defenses and Neikamps special teams are bottom of BSC level and that won't cut it in playoffs (after 2 and 1/2 seasons in charge). Perhaps they both will start to improve dramatically which need to to take the next step...but after EWU game and last year's Cat game it is a leap at this point.

A .500 record against MSU (with a downward trend) is not something to be excited about as far as chances of 2 championships in next 4 years.....

You and the other ray of sunshine seem to really struggle with the words "if" and "and". IF Gresch can put up gaudy numbers AND win 2 championships, an argument could be made for putting him above Dave. Nobody said he WILL do both of those things. Now back to your regularly scheduled sniveling.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

:mrgreen:

Might be a good idea to beat the Bobcats first.

No shit....the current staff has not shown the capability to come remotely close to a playoff run let alone 2 National Championships. Cart wayyyyyy before the horse.

1-1 vs MSU and 1-1 in the post season w/ the loss coming against eventual national champion NDSU. I'd say we're atleast hooking the horse up to the cart at this point. 'Course everyone's got an opinion. I'm also guessing by "current staff", your meaning minus TG.

Not necessarily TG, but Semore has not proven he can do anything near championship run caliber defenses and Neikamps special teams are bottom of BSC level and that won't cut it in playoffs (after 2 and 1/2 seasons in charge). Perhaps they both will start to improve dramatically which need to to take the next step...but after EWU game and last year's Cat game it is a leap at this point.

A .500 record against MSU (with a downward trend) is not something to be excited about as far as chances of 2 championships in next 4 years.....

First off, I agree 2 nattys in the next 4 years is deffenetly a stretch. After all, we're not NDSU. 1 though is definitely feasible. I also definitely wouldn't call one loss a "downward trend". I'm sure though that when ever Bobby lost to MSU (twice) and not winning that elusive natty, plenty of eGrizers were calling for his head too.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

:mrgreen:

No shit....the current staff has not shown the capability to come remotely close to a playoff run let alone 2 National Championships. Cart wayyyyyy before the horse.

1-1 vs MSU and 1-1 in the post season w/ the loss coming against eventual national champion NDSU. I'd say we're atleast hooking the horse up to the cart at this point. 'Course everyone's got an opinion. I'm also guessing by "current staff", your meaning minus TG.

Not necessarily TG, but Semore has not proven he can do anything near championship run caliber defenses and Neikamps special teams are bottom of BSC level and that won't cut it in playoffs (after 2 and 1/2 seasons in charge). Perhaps they both will start to improve dramatically which need to to take the next step...but after EWU game and last year's Cat game it is a leap at this point.

A .500 record against MSU (with a downward trend) is not something to be excited about as far as chances of 2 championships in next 4 years.....

First off, I agree 2 nattys in the next 4 years is deffenetly a stretch. After all, we're not NDSU. 1 though is definitely feasible. I also definitely wouldn't call one loss a "downward trend". I'm sure though that when ever Bobby lost to MSU (twice) and not winning that elusive natty, plenty of eGrizers were calling for his head too.

Ignore the green face. Also, I'd give Semore more credit this year. He's had two bad games, one against arguably the best QB in the FCS and one against a team that will likely be in the FBS playoffs. The rest have been pretty good.

 

[Ursus1]

No shit....the current staff has not shown the capability to come remotely close to a playoff run let alone 2 National Championships. Cart wayyyyyy before the horse.

1-1 vs MSU and 1-1 in the post season w/ the loss coming against eventual national champion NDSU. I'd say we're atleast hooking the horse up to the cart at this point. 'Course everyone's got an opinion. I'm also guessing by "current staff", your meaning minus TG.

Not necessarily TG, but Semore has not proven he can do anything near championship run caliber defenses and Neikamps special teams are bottom of BSC level and that won't cut it in playoffs (after 2 and 1/2 seasons in charge). Perhaps they both will start to improve dramatically which need to to take the next step...but after EWU game and last year's Cat game it is a leap at this point.

A .500 record against MSU (with a downward trend) is not something to be excited about as far as chances of 2 championships in next 4 years.....

You and the other ray of sunshine seem to really struggle with the words "if" and "and". IF Gresch can put up gaudy numbers AND win 2 championships, an argument could be made for putting him above Dave. Nobody said he WILL do both of those things. Now back to your regularly scheduled sniveling.

"If" Jensen throws for 900 yards a game "and" Griz win every game by 50 points then will Stitt get the dream Nebraska job?...new thread idea......or how about one " if " unicorns are found "and" it is in Missoula should the team mascot be changed......

My God, win 3 games against low-level BSC teams and thread topics really get crazy. Let's just wait until they beat Weber next week to see if they even belong in playoff talk, and get redemption against MSU to see if they are even the best team in the state. Let Jensen finish his freshman year before you start throwing that possible comparison on the kid. Sounds like MSU preseason national champ talk around here.

 

[Kabooom]

Legend Dave Dickinson put up gaudy passing numbers due in part to the Griz having one of the most un-balanced offenses in the country at the time. Not much of a running game to say the least.
Don Read's pass-happy-era-Griz were an anomaly when they won it back in 95...Thank Gawd for the nasty Defense they played that year...(less the Idaho away game) ...Saved our Bacon.
Read was the right Coach, at the right time for the Griz...with the new Wa.Griz Stadium.

I hope for a little more running game vs the pass....like Stitt said was going to be the case when he first got to the U...Running game with Calhoun and Lee are on the right track and the quality of the O-line starters and underclassmen are trending up.

Was glad to see Hauck bring in some good run-blocking schemes /DOLA......but a lot of Read fans .....no like Bobby(Beat State).....because Bobby's(Beat State) teams struggled to put up Reads gawdy offensive passing and point numbers...


Some Griz fans just won't be happy unless we perform like Read's passing teams......Not going to happen in today's
FCS College play.....

Go Stitt!
Go Griz!(Beat State)

 

[SoldierGriz]

1-1 vs MSU and 1-1 in the post season w/ the loss coming against eventual national champion NDSU. I'd say we're atleast hooking the horse up to the cart at this point. 'Course everyone's got an opinion. I'm also guessing by "current staff", your meaning minus TG.

Not necessarily TG, but Semore has not proven he can do anything near championship run caliber defenses and Neikamps special teams are bottom of BSC level and that won't cut it in playoffs (after 2 and 1/2 seasons in charge). Perhaps they both will start to improve dramatically which need to to take the next step...but after EWU game and last year's Cat game it is a leap at this point.

A .500 record against MSU (with a downward trend) is not something to be excited about as far as chances of 2 championships in next 4 years.....

You and the other ray of sunshine seem to really struggle with the words "if" and "and". IF Gresch can put up gaudy numbers AND win 2 championships, an argument could be made for putting him above Dave. Nobody said he WILL do both of those things. Now back to your regularly scheduled sniveling.

"If" Jensen throws for 900 yards a game "and" Griz win every game by 50 points then will Stitt get the dream Nebraska job?...new thread idea......or how about one " if " unicorns are found "and" it is in Missoula should the team mascot be changed......

My God, win 3 games against low-level BSC teams and thread topics really get crazy. Let's just wait until they beat Weber next week to see if they even belong in playoff talk, and get redemption against MSU to see if they are even the best team in the state. Let Jensen finish his freshman year before you start throwing that possible comparison on the kid. Sounds like MSU preseason national champ talk around here.

+1.

But, this is us...crazy when they lose...crazy when they win. Gotta love Griz fans.

 

[#15 Fan]

I'm biased (obviously), but Jensen will never surpass Dickenson as the greatest Griz QB of all time regardless of what he does. I say that for one simple reason: Dickenson is from MONTANA. Say what you want, but I think that is huge to a lot of people. Also, don't forget Dickenson didn't play much in the 2nd half of a lot of games; could you imagine his numbers if he were kept in much later? I do think Jensen will surpass Dickenson in most offensive categories (barring injury), but no one will ever unseat Dickenson as the GOAT of Montana Football.

 

[PlayerRep]

I was looking at the record book last night. I firmly believe that Jensen could surpass many if not all of Super Dave's career records. If he is able to claim all of the career records and win two national championships. Would Jensen be considered the greatest griz QB of all time?

http://gogriz.com/documents/2017/9/1/2017_Record_Book.pdf?ismobile=true

i was under the impression that dickenson's stats don't include the playoffs?

I think playoff stats started get included in ncaa stat records with the 2002 season, but don't know for sure.

 

[PlayerRep]

I was looking at the record book last night. I firmly believe that Jensen could surpass many if not all of Super Dave's career records. If he is able to claim all of the career records and win two national championships. Would Jensen be considered the greatest griz QB of all time?

http://gogriz.com/documents/2017/9/1/2017_Record_Book.pdf?ismobile=true

Yes, but he won't.

Why do you think he can't? Dave was only a three year starter; Gresch is basically a four year starter. I do think he might struggle to overcome Dave's COMP/INT ratio. But all other records are a possibility.

I said he won't, not can't. Just my opinion. Why do you think he could break the records and win national championships. I doubt the Griz will even win the conference this year. Do you think he'll be healthy for 4 seasons?

 

[CrunchGriz]

I'm biased (obviously), but Jensen will never surpass Dickenson as the greatest Griz QB of all time regardless of what he does. I say that for one simple reason: Dickenson is from MONTANA. Say what you want, but I think that is huge to a lot of people. Also, don't forget Dickenson didn't play much in the 2nd half of a lot of games; could you imagine his numbers if he were kept in much later? I do think Jensen will surpass Dickenson in most offensive categories (barring injury), but no one will ever unseat Dickenson as the GOAT of Montana Football.

Yeah, we all need to pump the brakes here a bit. DD's "official" 1995 stats don't include the playoffs, in which he threw for 1500 yards (exactly), so he actually threw for 5676 that season...

...and he averaged 2.5 quarters of play per game that season. I went back and looked through the game logs of that season, and that's what he averaged, entirely because the Griz were dismantling teams so badly that he came out (on average) halfway through the 3rd quarter. Imagine the stats if he had been required to stay in all of these games--7000 yards is easily imaginable.

Now, all that being said, GJ is having the best freshman season at QB in UM history so far, so career stats may be similar when all is said and done if he can stay healthy, even with a more balanced offense--356 passing yards/game in his first four starts is a tremendous opening act, and he very likely will get even better, as he is by all accounts a very hard worker and quick study.

Just d-mn happy the Griz have him.

 

[grizzliesthetics]

I was looking at the record book last night. I firmly believe that Jensen could surpass many if not all of Super Dave's career records. If he is able to claim all of the career records and win two national championships. Would Jensen be considered the greatest griz QB of all time?

http://gogriz.com/documents/2017/9/1/2017_Record_Book.pdf?ismobile=true

Yes, but he won't.

Why do you think he can't? Dave was only a three year starter; Gresch is basically a four year starter. I do think he might struggle to overcome Dave's COMP/INT ratio. But all other records are a possibility.

I said he won't, not can't. Just my opinion. Why do you think he could break the records and win national championships. I doubt the Griz will even win the conference this year. Do you think he'll be healthy for 4 seasons?

I think based on trajectory he can achieve most if not all of the career records strictly based on his stats now and the playing time advantage he will have over Dave; if he stays healthy.

The Natty I am not sure about. But I do think to even be considered along with Dave he will have to win at least one for the discussion to have any footing.

It's fun to hear opinion on this. I do think the "not from Montana" argument does have some relevance as well. Although Jensen does have roots with his mom being a former Alum. But I am neither here nor there on that.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Kabooom makes some good points. Bob Cole said basically the same things when he was offensive coordinator here - to be successful, we needed better offensive balance than we had in 1995.

Jensen seems pretty smart. Like Dave. If we play a little defense, I think Gresch will do just fine.

 

[grizzliesthetics]

I was looking at the record book last night. I firmly believe that Jensen could surpass many if not all of Super Dave's career records. If he is able to claim all of the career records and win two national championships. Would Jensen be considered the greatest griz QB of all time?

http://gogriz.com/documents/2017/9/1/2017_Record_Book.pdf?ismobile=true

Yes, but he won't.

Why do you think he can't? Dave was only a three year starter; Gresch is basically a four year starter. I do think he might struggle to overcome Dave's COMP/INT ratio. But all other records are a possibility.

I said he won't, not can't. Just my opinion. Why do you think he could break the records and win national championships. I doubt the Griz will even win the conference this year. Do you think he'll be healthy for 4 seasons?

I think based on trajectory he can achieve most if not all of the career records strictly based on his stats now and the playing time advantage he will have over Dave; if he stays healthy.

The Natty I am not sure about. But I do think to even be considered along with Dave he will have to win at least one for the discussion to have any footing.

It's fun to hear opinion on this. I do think the "not from Montana" argument does have some relevance as well. Although Jensen does have roots with his mom being a former Alum. But I am neither here nor there on that.

 

[Stop_HammerTime69]

This is going to be a really stupid question, but where does the nickname "Legend of the Fall" come from? I know that Dickenson holds the nickname, but where does it originate? It's pretty cool anyways.

 

[George Ferguson]

I'm biased (obviously), but Jensen will never surpass Dickenson as the greatest Griz QB of all time regardless of what he does. I say that for one simple reason: Dickenson is from MONTANA. Say what you want, but I think that is huge to a lot of people. Also, don't forget Dickenson didn't play much in the 2nd half of a lot of games; could you imagine his numbers if he were kept in much later? I do think Jensen will surpass Dickenson in most offensive categories (barring injury), but no one will ever unseat Dickenson as the GOAT of Montana Football.

Fully agree that this thread is wayyyyyyy ahead of itself. DD is the GOAT. Gresch is a RS-Freshman with a ton of time left in the program. So that kind of talk is very, very premature.

What I don't agree with is that DD can't be surpassed just because he is from Montana.That's the furthest thing from why I loved the guy. And I'm a lifelong Montanan. DD's PLAY on the field, and the kind of person he was off it, are the reasons why I consider him the GOAT.

Actually, I believe the best pure FOOTBALL PLAYER to ever wear a Griz' uniform is from Stockton, California. I'm not talking stats, I'm not talking wins, or championships, I'm just talinig the most talented football player the Griz have ever had, and that's Trumaine Johnson.

In other words, I could care less where they were born. The second Montana is on the front of their chest, they are Montanans. And just an FYI, both Gresch' parents were alums of the UM, and Gresch has been traveling to Griz games since he was a little kid.

 

[Htowngriz]

I'm biased (obviously), but Jensen will never surpass Dickenson as the greatest Griz QB of all time regardless of what he does. I say that for one simple reason: Dickenson is from MONTANA. Say what you want, but I think that is huge to a lot of people. Also, don't forget Dickenson didn't play much in the 2nd half of a lot of games; could you imagine his numbers if he were kept in much later? I do think Jensen will surpass Dickenson in most offensive categories (barring injury), but no one will ever unseat Dickenson as the GOAT of Montana Football.

Fully agree that this thread is wayyyyyyy ahead of itself. DD is the GOAT. Gresch is a RS-Freshman with a ton of time left in the program. So that kind of talk is very, very premature.

What I don't agree with is that DD can't be surpassed just because he is from Montana.That's the furthest thing from why I loved the guy. And I'm a lifelong Montanan. DD's PLAY on the field, and the kind of person he was off it, are the reasons why I consider him the GOAT.

Actually, I believe the best pure FOOTBALL PLAYER to ever wear a Griz' uniform is from Stockton, California. I'm not talking stats, I'm not talking wins, or championships, I'm just talinig the most talented football player the Griz have ever had, and that's Trumaine Johnson.

In other words, I could care less where they were born. The second Montana is on the front of their chest, they are Montanans. And just an FYI, both Gresch' parents were alums of the UM, and Gresch has been traveling to Griz games since he was a little kid.

Well said. :thumb:

 

[bgbigdog]

I was kind of seeing Ralston in the Brad Pitt role. Perhaps if he grew his hair out, I could warm up to that a little more.

 

[argh!]

This is going to be a really stupid question, but where does the nickname "Legend of the Fall" come from? I know that Dickenson holds the nickname, but where does it originate? It's pretty cool anyways.

i'm pretty sure someone appropriated the nickname for montana football. it is from the title of a james harrison book. harrison lived part-time in livingston, but the book isn't about
football.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

I preferred the film version, starring Brad Pitt's hair: