New Coaches= Conference change?

[Huge]

Can you imagine the uproar in Missoula and on a VERY liberal campus of having the head football coach being the highest paid state employee???? Don't get me wrong, I am all for having our coaches be compensated at the same levels as their peers, which they are far from being (and even much more given their success over the past 20 plus years), but liberal, tree hugging, dope smoking, hippy, etc... Missoula would never go for it. My god, some professors make more than Pflu and how much money do those professors bring to the table?

Now someone can chastise me for saying athletics should be higher on the feeding chain than tenured professors of say, creative writing??? Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, if you want the answer.

I say, make the coaches the highest paid state employees in Montana - they deserve and MORE than cover their own costs versus ANY other position in higher ed. Yep, call me an evil capitalist if you want, but you better 'pay for yourself' in government I say... Professors can and should be REQUIRED to get grants or similar to pay for their positions or they don't stay.... Coaches can get fans in seats with their records thereby putting literally millions into UM coffers and covering their costs. How many UM professors can honestly say they pay for their own positions and why should professors be treated any differently?

I say pay the coaches extremely well - a good coaching staff can easily MORE than 'cover' their costs to the UM, but it seems many people forget that.

Academics might bring students to a college, but Athletics has, and always will, bring those students, and as such, Alumni, back to college after they graduate with donations, scholarships, etc... How many truly wealthy people have you heard give a university with a mediocre athletic program, big bucks? Do the research and you'd be surprised. ATHLETICS BRINGS ALUMNI BACK TO A UNIVERSITY - sorry but that's the simple fact....

Good post. There are a lot of tenured fat cat profs that would decline the risk of even a high paying coaching career if given a choice over their own little nest. There are tenured profs that deserve to be put on a pedistal; there are tenured profs that don't. Regarding Missoula politics; it is the University of Montana, not the University of Missoula. The rest of the state is more balanced politically.

Show me a "fat cat" prof at UM that makes more than $180,000. Good luck with that. I know how faculty at UM are paid.

 

[Spanky]

If some of them are making $180,000.00, they are fat cats in the Montana economy.

 

[Paytonlives]

How come when I bring up the topic of paying your coaches way more money, I never get an answer. How are you going to get the money? Simple question. To be competitive in the MWC I would say you would have to pay your head coach at minimum $800,000. Maybe more. Then you'll have to add coaches to the staff. One of you "move-uppers" can answer this, right?

Basketball revenue would be way up. Traveling costs would be down in a realistic regional conference and...

Its called TV rev. and playing in places that dont look like a high school football field.(See UNC) And thats really not fair to most high school football fields.

I don't think it's that easy, other wise you would have moved up a long time ago. As far as "regional conference" there is no such thing any longer. Boise State to the Big East? I think they also invited Air Force too.

The main reason UM did not move up before was the lack of playoffs.

Regional would be the Idaho, Utah State, Wyoming (Ect) TRUE REGION not BCS bull crap.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Regional would be the Idaho, Utah State, Wyoming (Ect) TRUE REGION not BCS bull crap.

In that scenario we'd better hope for an invite into the new MWC/CUSA conglomeration. The only regional school NOT in that conference currently (or being considered) is Idaho.

Personally, give me a conference with:

Mountain Division:

Montana
Montana State (acknowledging we aren't going anywhere without the bastard stepchild)
Idaho
Boise State
Colorado State
Wyoming
Utah State
Air Force

Sand Division:

Nevada
UNLV
San Diego State
Fresno State
San Jose State
New Mexico
New Mexico State
UTEP

You've got the Cali and Texas recruiting hotbeds covered with teams in the conference from both regions)...Play your 7 divisional opponents every year, rotate in 2 out-of-division opponents every year and play 2 OOC games every year (BYU, Pac-12, Hawaii, etc). Travel expenses would be cut dramatically in this scenario for ALL sports.

Conversely, if you want to go smaller (say a 10-team conference) and acknowledging that Boise & San Diego State aren't going to come back from the Big East, I'd even take:

Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Wyoming
Colorado State
Nevada
UNLV
Utah State
New Mexico
New Mexico State

 

[Spanky]

The other schools which are peer universities, may not accept state college. Maybe the regents will give us the go ahead without them?

 

[OrgonGriz]

I must say it would certainly be nice to see a playoff system at the current FBS level. Could you imagine then schools really looking to stay regional. No more Boise in SDSU in the Big East.

It only makes sence to have schools say in MT, ID, WY, CO,UT etc in the same conference. Hell states like CA and TX could have a state as a conference they have so many schools. I am aware some regions would on a regular basis have better teams. It's that way know honestly so no surprise there. There would still be kids from hot bed states that would leave say TX just to get a chance to play and would come to schools in our region.

I also believe that if say current FCS and FBS schools formed regional conferences it should be up to that particular school to either stay at 64 scholarships or to up the number of scholarships or visa versa lower the number from 85. A school could operate anywhere within the 64/85 scholarships, no more no less. Face it there are some schools says like Oregon and USC that have loads of money on a regular basis are going to get better players than say Nevada or Idaho and USC has no problem paying 85 scholarships. However Idaho on the other hand would I am sure love to be able to say offer 70 scholarships!

I think in a system such as this you would still see underdogs win even with less talent and money. Should we not forget how well Western Oregon played our Griz this past year. I think in a system such as this the best team on the field that days wins and does have a shot at shocking many!

It sure as heck makes more sense than Boise State being part of the Big East! Crazy idea maybe!! But what's in place know is just as crazy if you ask me..

 

[kemajic]

Can you imagine the uproar in Missoula and on a VERY liberal campus of having the head football coach being the highest paid state employee???? Don't get me wrong, I am all for having our coaches be compensated at the same levels as their peers, which they are far from being (and even much more given their success over the past 20 plus years), but liberal, tree hugging, dope smoking, hippy, etc... Missoula would never go for it. My god, some professors make more than Pflu and how much money do those professors bring to the table?

Now someone can chastise me for saying athletics should be higher on the feeding chain than tenured professors of say, creative writing??? Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, if you want the answer.

I say, make the coaches the highest paid state employees in Montana - they deserve and MORE than cover their own costs versus ANY other position in higher ed. Yep, call me an evil capitalist if you want, but you better 'pay for yourself' in government I say... Professors can and should be REQUIRED to get grants or similar to pay for their positions or they don't stay.... Coaches can get fans in seats with their records thereby putting literally millions into UM coffers and covering their costs. How many UM professors can honestly say they pay for their own positions and why should professors be treated any differently?

I say pay the coaches extremely well - a good coaching staff can easily MORE than 'cover' their costs to the UM, but it seems many people forget that.

Academics might bring students to a college, but Athletics has, and always will, bring those students, and as such, Alumni, back to college after they graduate with donations, scholarships, etc... How many truly wealthy people have you heard give a university with a mediocre athletic program, big bucks? Do the research and you'd be surprised. ATHLETICS BRINGS ALUMNI BACK TO A UNIVERSITY - sorry but that's the simple fact....

Good post. There are a lot of tenured fat cat profs that would decline the risk of even a high paying coaching career if given a choice over their own little nest. There are tenured profs that deserve to be put on a pedistal; there are tenured profs that don't. Regarding Missoula politics; it is the University of Montana, not the University of Missoula. The rest of the state is more balanced politically.

Show me a "fat cat" prof at UM that makes more than $180,000. Good luck with that. I know how faculty at UM are paid.

Never implied that there were. What I implied, if you would read more carefully, was that there are tenured profs that prefer to cruise at their guaranteed prof salary and benefits rather take on the risk of a higher paying job (like coaching), where the pressure and competition is intense and there is no tenure. There are tenured profs at UM that are retired on the job; the downside of tenure. The upside is continuity, which we do not have in coaching. Head coaching salaries may be higher, but they rarely last like tenured professor salaries.

I'm well aware of how UM faculty is paid. I was once asked by a Dept. Chair to apply for an assistant professorship at UM at roughly 1/4 what I was making early in my industrial career. Could not have made ends meet. They have gotten better since.

 

[kemajic]

Should we not forget how well Western Oregon played our Griz this past year.

Someone's memory is not too good. 32-7; 497-221 total yards. Exhibition; everyone played. Pflu let Brody work on his FG game on fourth downs the Griz could have made easity. The last thing Pflu wanted to do was run up the score. He has too many friends in Oregon.

 

[OrgonGriz]

Should we not forget how well Western Oregon played our Griz this past year.

Someone's memory is not too good. 32-7; 497-221 total yards. Exhibition; everyone played. Pflu let Brody work on his FG game on fourth downs the Griz could have made easity. The last thing Pflu wanted to do was run up the score. He has too many friends in Oregon.

Ok kemajic maybe bad comparison on my part. Would Central Washington from a couple years ago be better or NDSU when they came in to WaGriz and won by a point. You get my point!!

 

[Bluenoser]

Where does Colorado State get it?

Fort Collins metro area population: 298,382 in 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Collins_%E2%80%93_Loveland_Metropolitan_Statistical_Area" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Colorado State University enrollment: 24,529
http://www.today.colostate.edu/story.aspx?id=5255" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Denver–Aurora–Boulder Combined Statistical Area: 2,998,878 in 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver-Aurora-Boulder_Combined_Statistical_Area" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From Denver to Colorado Springs, CO
Distance: 69 miles
Driving Time: 1.25 hours
http://denver.about.com/od/transportation/a/drivetime.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sonny Lubick Field capacity: 34,400


Missoula Metro area population: 109,299 in 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula,_Montana" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

U of M enrollment in 2011: 15,669
http://www.umt.edu/home/stories/2011/10/enrollfall11.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Haugan, Montana population: 51
http://www.usbeacon.com/Montana/Haugan.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Haugan to Missoula:
Distance between Missoula, Montana (MT) and Haugan, Montana (MT)
How many miles? 88 Miles / 142 Km
How many hours? This takes 1 hour 22 mins

Wa Griz capacity: 25,203

 

[GrizMusician]

Where does Colorado State get it?

Fort Collins metro area population: 298,382 in 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Collins_%E2%80%93_Loveland_Metropolitan_Statistical_Area" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Colorado State University enrollment: 24,529
http://www.today.colostate.edu/story.aspx?id=5255" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Denver–Aurora–Boulder Combined Statistical Area: 2,998,878 in 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver-Aurora-Boulder_Combined_Statistical_Area" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From Denver to Colorado Springs, CO
Distance: 69 miles
Driving Time: 1.25 hours
http://denver.about.com/od/transportation/a/drivetime.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sonny Lubick Field capacity: 34,400


Missoula Metro area population: 109,299 in 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula,_Montana" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

U of M enrollment in 2011: 15,669
http://www.umt.edu/home/stories/2011/10/enrollfall11.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Haugan, Montana population: 51
http://www.usbeacon.com/Montana/Haugan.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Haugan to Missoula:
Distance between Missoula, Montana (MT) and Haugan, Montana (MT)
How many miles? 88 Miles / 142 Km
How many hours? This takes 1 hour 22 mins

Wa Griz capacity: 25,203

WTF?

 

[OrgonGriz]

I guess that was to show were CSU gets $$ for coach salary. Larger city population, larger student enrollment, larger metro area near by.

All true for sure. But the state of Colorado also has a lot of other interests to pull people's attention. They have 3 FBS school plus UNC, Bronco's, Nuggets, Rockies Baseball and there hockey.

I would think CSU is near the bottom of all of those other attractions (no offense to CSU). That being the case one would suggest the lessor pull of money.

 

[Bluenoser]

I guess that was to show were CSU gets $$ for coach salary. Larger city population, larger student enrollment, larger metro area near by.

Exactly.

All true for sure. But the state of Colorado also has a lot of other interests to pull people's attention. They have 3 FBS school plus UNC, Bronco's, Nuggets, Rockies Baseball and there hockey.

I would think CSU is near the bottom of all of those other attractions (no offense to CSU). That being the case one would suggest the lessor pull of money.

Fort Collins metro alone is 3X Missoula in population. 70 miles away CSU has Denver as a fan base with close to 3 million people. I'm sure quite a few of them are CSU football fans that don't like baseball.

70 miles away Missoula has... Haugan, population 51 to draw from. A little extreme example for sure and used to illustrate the point that any town you find in the 70 mile radius to Missoula is going to be *far* closer in size to Haugan than it will be to Denver.

Take an average of 10 to 15K more students per year coming out of CSU and after 40 years you have half a million more alumns ( their alumn surplus over us the last 40 years is equal to half the population of the entire state of Montana) to solicit for donations and sell season tickets to.

Its the economy, and there is no way Missoula is ever going to compete against the big boys until it stops being Missoula and adds at least a quarter of a million more people. At which point Missoula stops being Missoula which most of us know and love, and becomes something different altogether. A place that I doubt many of us would still love.

 

[BigSkyBears]

I guess that was to show were CSU gets $$ for coach salary. Larger city population, larger student enrollment, larger metro area near by.

Exactly.

All true for sure. But the state of Colorado also has a lot of other interests to pull people's attention. They have 3 FBS school plus UNC, Bronco's, Nuggets, Rockies Baseball and there hockey.

I would think CSU is near the bottom of all of those other attractions (no offense to CSU). That being the case one would suggest the lessor pull of money.

Fort Collins metro alone is 3X Missoula in population. 70 miles away CSU has Denver as a fan base with close to 3 million people. I'm sure quite a few of them are CSU football fans that don't like baseball.

70 miles away Missoula has... Haugan, population 51 to draw from. A little extreme example for sure and used to illustrate the point that any town you find in the 70 mile radius to Missoula is going to be *far* closer in size to Haugan than it will be to Denver.

Take an average of 10 to 15K more students per year coming out of CSU and after 40 years you have half a million more alumns ( their alumn surplus over us the last 40 years is equal to half the population of the entire state of Montana) to solicit for donations and sell season tickets to.

Its the economy, and there is no way Missoula is ever going to compete against the big boys until it stops being Missoula and adds at least a quarter of a million more people. At which point Missoula stops being Missoula which most of us know and love, and becomes something different altogether. A place that I doubt many of us would still love.

Those are great things to bring up. I find it pretty funny that Paytonlives and other "move-uppers" think it would be so easy to compete with those in the MWC. I'll write it again. CSU with one of the lowest budgets in the conference, maybe THE lowest just dished out over a million per year for their coach. You pay yours $170, 000 per year? Paytonlives thinks regionalism would help out the travel costs. Not sure how much he follows college athletics, but there's a news flash: Regionalism is going out the door. Boise to the Big East? They also invited Air Force!

 

[spartypants]

CSU is being discussed to the Big East now since Boise is apparently pissed no other western teams have been invited. Regionalism is truly out the door. It's all about markets now, which is why, even if you moved up, you're not going to the MWC.

 

[Silvertip]

It's good to see a Missoula guy make off with a million $$ even if it's in Ft Collins...BTW, it's interesting to note that CSU is considering abandoning a stadium in the middle of the boonies that was enlarged to 35,000 seats not so long ago for a new "on-campus venue." Thank God UM didn't make the same mistake back when there was talk of possibly putting Wa-Griz out at Fort Missoula.

 

[AZGrizFan]

It's good to see a Missoula guy make off with a million $$ even if it's in Ft Collins...BTW, it's interesting to note that CSU is considering abandoning a stadium in the middle of the boonies that was enlarged to 35,000 seats not so long ago for a new "on-campus venue." Thank God UM didn't make the same mistake back when there was talk of possibly putting Wa-Griz out at Fort Missoula.

Hell, having it off campus at Dornblazer was bad enough!

 

[Tokyogriz]

I guess that was to show were CSU gets $$ for coach salary. Larger city population, larger student enrollment, larger metro area near by.

Exactly.

All true for sure. But the state of Colorado also has a lot of other interests to pull people's attention. They have 3 FBS school plus UNC, Bronco's, Nuggets, Rockies Baseball and there hockey.

I would think CSU is near the bottom of all of those other attractions (no offense to CSU). That being the case one would suggest the lessor pull of money.

Fort Collins metro alone is 3X Missoula in population. 70 miles away CSU has Denver as a fan base with close to 3 million people. I'm sure quite a few of them are CSU football fans that don't like baseball.

70 miles away Missoula has... Haugan, population 51 to draw from. A little extreme example for sure and used to illustrate the point that any town you find in the 70 mile radius to Missoula is going to be *far* closer in size to Haugan than it will be to Denver.

Take an average of 10 to 15K more students per year coming out of CSU and after 40 years you have half a million more alumns ( their alumn surplus over us the last 40 years is equal to half the population of the entire state of Montana) to solicit for donations and sell season tickets to.

Its the economy, and there is no way Missoula is ever going to compete against the big boys until it stops being Missoula and adds at least a quarter of a million more people. At which point Missoula stops being Missoula which most of us know and love, and becomes something different altogether. A place that I doubt many of us would still love.

Those are great things to bring up. I find it pretty funny that Paytonlives and other "move-uppers" think it would be so easy to compete with those in the MWC. I'll write it again. CSU with one of the lowest budgets in the conference, maybe THE lowest just dished out over a million per year for their coach. You pay yours $170, 000 per year? Paytonlives thinks regionalism would help out the travel costs. Not sure how much he follows college athletics, but there's a news flash: Regionalism is going out the door. Boise to the Big East? They also invited Air Force!

Bigskybears your joke of a Junior College/UNC is exactly the kind of joke of a program/school most of us will like to NOT BE ASSOCIATED with. If I were you I would refrain from posting in UM threads about moving up unless you just want to add more fire to the flames.

 

[Bluenoser]

Even Greeley has vastly more revenue potential than Missoula:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_metropolitan_areas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Spanky]

The Griz are a University of Montana team, not University of Missoula. They happen to be located in Missoula, but the school and team represent the entire state of Montana. It just so happens that many people that attend Griz football games come from all over Montana to watch our team....not just Missoula. So when you talk about revenue of any kind, talk about the entire state of Montana....Okay??