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New Coaches= Conference change?
- Thread starter Paytonlives
- Start date
grizpack said:
I was just asking a question... As these hires (I know they are friends) just seem too good to be true.
I believe that UM will eventually have to choice between moving down or up. I. E. the FCS will be gone. I still kind of play both sides. I understand the playoff debate, but I also am tired of watching the Griz play the likes of ISU and NAU.
I have said it before... in my perfect world the Griz would be in a conference that has better quality Universities and is much more Regional AND WITH A PLAYOFF SYSTEM.
I just cant bare the thought of UM being "left out" and losing the playoffs and moving "down".
As some have stated, college football is ruled by MONEY and soon enough the distance between the have's and have nots (wich is already huge) will be a Grand Canyon sized.
Please football gods make it possible for UM to be in a conference with Idaho, Nevada, Utah State (ect) AGAIN!!!
BigSkyBears
Well-known member
How come when I bring up the topic of paying your coaches way more money, I never get an answer. How are you going to get the money? Simple question. To be competitive in the MWC I would say you would have to pay your head coach at minimum $800,000. Maybe more. Then you'll have to add coaches to the staff. One of you "move-uppers" can answer this, right?
BigSkyBears
Well-known member
AZGrizFan said:
I believe most of that money came from private donors. There's probably a lot of institutional support as well. I just want one "move-upper" to explain this and I want a good explanation as well. Just think about it: You pay $180,000 for your coach and CSU (which has one of the lowest budgets in the MWC) pays their guy over a Million dollars per year. How do you really expect to compete with that.
BigSkyBears said:
Basketball revenue would be way up. Traveling costs would be down in a realistic regional conference and...
Its called TV rev. and playing in places that dont look like a high school football field.(See UNC) And thats really not fair to most high school football fields.
I still say its going to happen wether UM wants it to or not.
Why do you think msu, weber and sac to some extent have been on a break neck pace to build facilities... where is that money coming from?
Answer: You need better facilities to move up or atleast be part of the BCS group that moves down.
Why do you think msu, weber and sac to some extent have been on a break neck pace to build facilities... where is that money coming from?
Answer: You need better facilities to move up or atleast be part of the BCS group that moves down.
hawaiiangriz
Well-known member
Can you imagine the uproar in Missoula and on a VERY liberal campus of having the head football coach being the highest paid state employee???? Don't get me wrong, I am all for having our coaches be compensated at the same levels as their peers, which they are far from being (and even much more given their success over the past 20 plus years), but liberal, tree hugging, dope smoking, hippy, etc... Missoula would never go for it. My god, some professors make more than Pflu and how much money do those professors bring to the table?
Now someone can chastise me for saying athletics should be higher on the feeding chain than tenured professors of say, creative writing??? Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, if you want the answer.
I say, make the coaches the highest paid state employees in Montana - they deserve and MORE than cover their own costs versus ANY other position in higher ed. Yep, call me an evil capitalist if you want, but you better 'pay for yourself' in government I say... Professors can and should be REQUIRED to get grants or similar to pay for their positions or they don't stay.... Coaches can get fans in seats with their records thereby putting literally millions into UM coffers and covering their costs. How many UM professors can honestly say they pay for their own positions and why should professors be treated any differently?
I say pay the coaches extremely well - a good coaching staff can easily MORE than 'cover' their costs to the UM, but it seems many people forget that.
Academics might bring students to a college, but Athletics has, and always will, bring those students, and as such, Alumni, back to college after they graduate with donations, scholarships, etc... How many truly wealthy people have you heard give a university with a mediocre athletic program, big bucks? Do the research and you'd be surprised. ATHLETICS BRINGS ALUMNI BACK TO A UNIVERSITY - sorry but that's the simple fact....
Now someone can chastise me for saying athletics should be higher on the feeding chain than tenured professors of say, creative writing??? Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, if you want the answer.
I say, make the coaches the highest paid state employees in Montana - they deserve and MORE than cover their own costs versus ANY other position in higher ed. Yep, call me an evil capitalist if you want, but you better 'pay for yourself' in government I say... Professors can and should be REQUIRED to get grants or similar to pay for their positions or they don't stay.... Coaches can get fans in seats with their records thereby putting literally millions into UM coffers and covering their costs. How many UM professors can honestly say they pay for their own positions and why should professors be treated any differently?
I say pay the coaches extremely well - a good coaching staff can easily MORE than 'cover' their costs to the UM, but it seems many people forget that.
Academics might bring students to a college, but Athletics has, and always will, bring those students, and as such, Alumni, back to college after they graduate with donations, scholarships, etc... How many truly wealthy people have you heard give a university with a mediocre athletic program, big bucks? Do the research and you'd be surprised. ATHLETICS BRINGS ALUMNI BACK TO A UNIVERSITY - sorry but that's the simple fact....
Good post. There are a lot of tenured fat cat profs that would decline the risk of even a high paying coaching career if given a choice over their own little nest. There are tenured profs that deserve to be put on a pedistal; there are tenured profs that don't. Regarding Missoula politics; it is the University of Montana, not the University of Missoula. The rest of the state is more balanced politically.hawaiiangriz said:
hawaiiangriz said:
Please tell me that you are not naive enough to believe that all money brought into any school is athletic related? If so, you need a healthy dose of reality check.
As for wealthy people and mediocre athletic programs....ever hear of the Ivy league? Pick your school. How about MIT? Do they even have athletic programs...that would be Massachusetts Institutue of Technology...one of the best mathematic schools in the country!
And Athletics Brings Alumni Back to a University? There are dozens of UM graduates that return to earn their Masters & PhDs.....I do believe that is coming back. Many of them come back for the education and DO donate. Give me 1000 people who donate $500 every year, vs a sponser who donates one time for a big ticket item. I'd take it every time.
billings_poke
Well-known member
hmmm A good university can exist without athletics and many do. A good university cannot exist without quality Professors who actually teach in the classrooms.
Professors who write grants have to be involved in heavy research/writing and teach less. I know lets have the professors chase grants and do research and let the Graduate assistants and TAs teach all their classes. If UM and MSU sucked academically, I don't care how good the football teams were, the best students would go elsewhere. (in fact many already do) Good Plan there
btw you should check into the academic gifts given to many universities. For The Univeristy of Wyoming The private giving of 24,018 donors added up $43.1 million for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2011. All of that went to the academic side of the house. hint... SO in one year UW received over $43 million dollars in academic donations. Academic donations can and do dwarf athletic contributions. Heck whole multi-million ranches have been donated to the University of Wyoming for academic use. Good god man check out the academic endowments and foundations at the top universities. For example, USC just received a $50 million dollar academic donation to just one of its many schools in the university. at USC academic giving far exceeds what the football team gets. Academic giving receives much less publicity but in the big schools it dwarfs athletic giving. It is not even close. I annually donate to three universities and it is all on the academic side. (aside from season tickets I hold at two schools) The annual reports I receive show significant giving on the academic of the ledger far in excess of the athletic side, which does tend to be one time big chunks from fewer donors.
Professors who write grants have to be involved in heavy research/writing and teach less. I know lets have the professors chase grants and do research and let the Graduate assistants and TAs teach all their classes. If UM and MSU sucked academically, I don't care how good the football teams were, the best students would go elsewhere. (in fact many already do) Good Plan there
btw you should check into the academic gifts given to many universities. For The Univeristy of Wyoming The private giving of 24,018 donors added up $43.1 million for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2011. All of that went to the academic side of the house. hint... SO in one year UW received over $43 million dollars in academic donations. Academic donations can and do dwarf athletic contributions. Heck whole multi-million ranches have been donated to the University of Wyoming for academic use. Good god man check out the academic endowments and foundations at the top universities. For example, USC just received a $50 million dollar academic donation to just one of its many schools in the university. at USC academic giving far exceeds what the football team gets. Academic giving receives much less publicity but in the big schools it dwarfs athletic giving. It is not even close. I annually donate to three universities and it is all on the academic side. (aside from season tickets I hold at two schools) The annual reports I receive show significant giving on the academic of the ledger far in excess of the athletic side, which does tend to be one time big chunks from fewer donors.
BearIt
Well-known member
http://www.umt.edu/urelations/pubs/Vision magazine/Vision 2011/quick looks.aspx
Last year Montana had $64 million in research grants and contracts. How much money did athletics bring in?
http://www.umt.edu/self-study2010/std7/std7exhibits/UMF2009AuditReport.pdf
In 2009 The UM Foundation recieved $30,494,750 in pledged donations.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ncaa-finances.htm
The atheletic department recieved 2,388,497.00 in donations that same year. I don't know the accounting, but a portion of that might be included in the foundation dollars.
Sorry, but academics bring in close to $100,000,000 in grants and donations. The athletic department has a long way to go to compete with that.
In the end to alumni athletics are for entertainment and bragging rights. The university would be fine with out them. On the flip side atheletics have to have the university. Don't let the tail wag the dog.
Last year Montana had $64 million in research grants and contracts. How much money did athletics bring in?
http://www.umt.edu/self-study2010/std7/std7exhibits/UMF2009AuditReport.pdf
In 2009 The UM Foundation recieved $30,494,750 in pledged donations.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ncaa-finances.htm
The atheletic department recieved 2,388,497.00 in donations that same year. I don't know the accounting, but a portion of that might be included in the foundation dollars.
Sorry, but academics bring in close to $100,000,000 in grants and donations. The athletic department has a long way to go to compete with that.
In the end to alumni athletics are for entertainment and bragging rights. The university would be fine with out them. On the flip side atheletics have to have the university. Don't let the tail wag the dog.
billings_poke
Well-known member
AZGrizFan said:
or the hippy left OREGON.
Sorry but it is not the left who hates high paid public employees.
Tokyogriz
Well-known member
BearIt said:
Impressive numbers. But... how much of that grant money actually makes its way to campus to pay the bills?
Why does UM need to siphon off massive chunks of the measley UM Football revenue when its revenue is put up against your massive grants numbers?
Why does UM Football pay rent on the stadium and the fieldhouse etc? Paying rent for a football teams stadium is something I have NEVER heard of any other school doing! The program is billed for everything including new buildings that are not at all related to sports much less the football program.
The UM president seems to act like UM would suffer greatly if the school allowed the Football program to keep its revenue instead of using it as a personal sluch fund.
I would venture to guess that most of that grant money for research does not pay the bills at the U. It clearly does not because of the pillaging of UMs football program revenues.
$64 million really isn't that much. Montana State is pulling in $100 million a year after being aggressive about grants for 12 years. I say 12 because that's the last time UM and MSU were within $10 million of each other for r&d.BearIt said:
The question with the $30 million is how many of these same people would be turned to contribute to athletics as well? President Dennison did a good job raising money this way, but missed other opportunities. It remains to be seen if Royce Engstrom can do as well, or better.BearIt said:
That $2.3 million is not foundation money, but a significant chunk of it also came from one time donations. It isn't the kind of reliable funding you could use for FBS salaries. I know in the past when this issue has come up, O'Day has suggested a very large endowment to help offset costs, but Montana is nowhere close to creating one large enough.BearIt said:
BearIt said:
BigSkyBears
Well-known member
Paytonlives said:
I don't think it's that easy, other wise you would have moved up a long time ago. As far as "regional conference" there is no such thing any longer. Boise State to the Big East? I think they also invited Air Force too.
UMcheer2000
Well-known member
Don't forget the revenue that comes in via restaurants, hotels, travel, etc that fans and alumni expend when attending and/or watching those games..
That's way more than is expended watching the UM debate team or a R&D presentation by a UM professor.
*edit: including elsewhere--outside Missoula..
That's way more than is expended watching the UM debate team or a R&D presentation by a UM professor.
*edit: including elsewhere--outside Missoula..
