New article: federal harassment complaint filed

[getgrizzy]

Gwen had to get her name back on the front page. I have a bad gut feeling about that lady. She obviously manipulates info and I would not put it past her to conspire with complaintant-yeah I know that thought is out in left field.

Gwen cannot be taken lightly. I believe only a portion of her agenda has to do with protecting women and I strongly support protecting women, but not at the expense of potentially innocent people!!!

i know you and others are looking for someone outside the athletic department to take your anguish out on, but she's just doing her job. in case you haven't noticed she reports on all the crime-related items in the missoulian and they all read the same way and follow the same format. she gets as much info as she can and puts together a story based on it. just like every journalist in the country. whatever happens (good or bad) it isn't going to revolve around gwen florio. she can neither be blamed or credited for anything.

 

[Grizbacker1]

Its not much of a guess beyond who all is involved in creating the "hostile environment". Title IX is coming. The Bartz report will be part of the investigation. I'm reasonable certain there will be interviews of students (and if the half dozen or so coeds who rotate through my home weekly caring for my Granddaughter are any indication of what they will hear, that won't go well.

There is much more Damage that can occur to the sports program Football in particular.

Heres a pretty good summary If anyone reads through it, there are a lot fewer guesses:

http://www.natlawreview.com/article/allegations-sexual-harassment-and-sexual-violence-what-must-school-do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A guess is precisley what you are doing. Cutting and pasting natlaw pieces do not validate your assumptions, plain and simple. You may have some valid points, but they are entirely based on your assumptions, not anything you know to be true. Just because something made The Missoulian doesn't mean it is accurate, anyone knows that, well except for a dipwad like Steve Dill.

 

[PlayerRep]

Well Player Rep not that I don't want to play with you today. Fines may not be the correct word as they are civil penalties that can come from the feds and are determined in many cases by an administrative judge. Although the finding is the same thing as Sexual Discrimination. It pretty interesting from there. Of course a finding of Title IX violations would really get interesting. The University could/would spend years settling personal liability suits which of course would suddenly have a lot more merit. Hell once the sharks descend smelling blood there could be class action.

Will the feds investigate? Lets think about it. We have a former Congressman with a case of the red ass over the issue a Democrat as recall, his wife involved with the current administration who also has a case of the red ass. A situation that hasn't been confined to whispered rumors between disgruntled employees but instead made not only the local papers but has managed to make the national news and even showed up in the international news. gee I don't know. Seeing as the issue is mostly about overlooking or sweeping dirty laundry under the bed, what do you think the Feds will do.

New York Times aside this isn't an equal opportunities issue. How much do you think each of the known victims will get each?? Maybe Engstrom's actions will demonstrate due diligence (I hope so) but It won't be decided by a bunch of football fans.

Feel free to provide a link or citation for "civil penalties" under Title IX. Again, I don't believe there are any. There is the risk of loss of federal funds, and the feds have never used that remedy, as of the date of that NY Times article.

Title IX covers sex discrimination. It includes sexual harassment/assault, as well as equal opportunity. The Office of Civil Rights in the US Education Department enforces Title IX. The NY Times article is applicable to the situation.

Here's a quote from the article you cited. Since you apparently didn't read the article, see the portion I highlighted.

" A Freedom of Information Act request filed with the Department of Education yielded at least 24 fully resolved investigations between 1998 and 2008 into allegations that colleges and universities botched sexual assault cases. That’s about two a year, on average. And violations of Title IX were found in just five cases in 11 years. None of the schools were punished, however — even when OCR found that colleges had acted indifferently or even retaliated against students who reported that they had been raped or otherwise sexually assaulted on campus."

 

[tnt]

Oh I read it, all the way to the end (as the article was about the LACK of enforcement and penalties.) especially the part about the new sheriff in town :

Sadly, I have heard those same kinds of stories and anecdotes,” said Ali, when told of complaints that her office simply signs off on universities’ decisions. “What I can commit to as a newly appointed assistant secretary for civil rights is that we are a rubber stamp for no one.”

Calling sexual violence an “epidemic” in the nation’s schools, Ali said that the Department of Education would partner with other agencies to address it.

I read the Missoulian too (rag that it is) It appears 3 of the "victims" have retained counsel. As I'm sure most college students can afford the cost of a lawyer to make press releases and speak to various folks on their behalf, on can pretty easily connect the dots. You did read the part about UC and Arizona didn't you?

I guess all the fancy lawyer talk can make this all seem like a nonevent. but so far you have been wrong every time when I have predicted whats coming down...... (Okay I admit Foley hasn't left yet but there is still time)

 

[PlayerRep]

Oh I read it, all the way to the end (as the article was about the LACK of enforcement and penalties.) especially the part about the new sheriff in town :

Sadly, I have heard those same kinds of stories and anecdotes,” said Ali, when told of complaints that her office simply signs off on universities’ decisions. “What I can commit to as a newly appointed assistant secretary for civil rights is that we are a rubber stamp for no one.”

Calling sexual violence an “epidemic” in the nation’s schools, Ali said that the Department of Education would partner with other agencies to address it.

I read the Missoulian too (rag that it is) It appears 3 of the "victims" have retained counsel. As I'm sure most college students can afford the cost of a lawyer to make press releases and speak to various folks on their behalf, on can pretty easily connect the dots. You did read the part about UC and Arizona didn't you?

I guess all the fancy lawyer talk can make this all seem like a nonevent. but so far you have been wrong every time when I have predicted whats coming down...... (Okay I admit Foley hasn't left yet but there is still time)

What 3 victims have retained counsel? The one that got the tro. Which others? Just curious.

I can't recall anything that I've been wrong on in terms of what's coming down, but feel free to refresh my recollection.

 

[blackfoot griz]

Negative news sells. How many positive stories could have been written about the good things happing at U of M, football players etc? How many atendees of this year's Forester's Ball did not get into any trouble at all?Good news does not sell as well as negative stuff.

 

[wbtfg]

Oh I read it, all the way to the end (as the article was about the LACK of enforcement and penalties.) especially the part about the new sheriff in town :

Sadly, I have heard those same kinds of stories and anecdotes,” said Ali, when told of complaints that her office simply signs off on universities’ decisions. “What I can commit to as a newly appointed assistant secretary for civil rights is that we are a rubber stamp for no one.”

Calling sexual violence an “epidemic” in the nation’s schools, Ali said that the Department of Education would partner with other agencies to address it.

I read the Missoulian too (rag that it is) It appears 3 of the "victims" have retained counsel. As I'm sure most college students can afford the cost of a lawyer to make press releases and speak to various folks on their behalf, on can pretty easily connect the dots. You did read the part about UC and Arizona didn't you?

I guess all the fancy lawyer talk can make this all seem like a nonevent. but so far you have been wrong every time when I have predicted whats coming down...... (Okay I admit Foley hasn't left yet but there is still time)

What 3 victims have retained counsel? The one that got the tro. Which others? Just curious.

I can't recall anything that I've been wrong on in terms of what's coming down, but feel free to refresh my recollection.

I think the use of quotation around "victims" indicated that the football players were victims who retained counsel. I'm not the sharpest bulb on the tool tree, but I'm pretty fluent in sarcasm.

 

[George Ferguson]

TNT by this statement "I can guarantee you academic programs won't be what is cut to pay the fines." are you suggesting you think football will be dropped at the University of Montana? Or am I just reading too much into what you're saying here? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt to respond before I go on to post what utter lunacy that is.

 

[Grizbacker1]

TNT by this statement "I can guarantee you academic programs won't be what is cut to pay the fines." are you suggesting you think football will be dropped at the University of Montana? Or am I just reading too much into what you're saying here? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt to respond before I go on to post what utter lunacy that is.

you may have to give him time to scour the lawreview for something to cite. :thumb:

 

[Spanky]

Havegrizfan.....I don't think football will be cut at UM as the program generates far too much revenue. However, if problems continue there will be those that ask for the demise of football which would not be good press for many reasons. We have some serious problems at our school and it's time for all of us to come together and end negative talk that could fuel the fire.

 

[tnt]

TNT by this statement "I can guarantee you academic programs won't be what is cut to pay the fines." are you suggesting you think football will be dropped at the University of Montana? Or am I just reading too much into what you're saying here? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt to respond before I go on to post what utter lunacy that is.

I doubt football would be dropped (although after the last time the athletic department screwed up it almost was) But 3 (maybe more) of the girls involved have lawyers. Its gonna cost something. Where would the budget start to be cut in the event of settlements having to be made? The history so far has been close to 7 figures at trial.

We are at the very worst time to have these problems. The national political climate is terifying and campus rapes etc is a really hot issue. Every university in the country was sent a letter to get their house in order. I can't think of a worse time to have a well publicized "lapse" The OCR will hang someone out to dry. I just hope its not us. I may not be a lawyer, but I know a fair amount about politics and and a whole lot about Politically Correct lynching. And all the lawyering in the world cant stop an administrative court/action in one of these cases.

 

[Grizlaw]

What I'm curious to know is what proof the complainant has that Jimmy Wilson intimidated any witness during his murder trial.

Assuming the answer is "none," I wonder if he'd be able to subpoena the complainant's identity in order to sue her for libel? :twocents:

 

[wbtfg]

What I'm curious to know is what proof the complainant has that Jimmy Wilson intimidated any witness during his murder trial.

Assuming the answer is "none," I wonder if he'd be able to subpoena the complainant's identity in order to sue her for libel? :twocents:

I was wondering the same thing. I thought that was an odd accusation.

 

[Gaeilge1]

Given the accusations that have circulated that the University, the City and the County were complicit in not investigating or pursuing the various allegations made against UM athletes, why is anyone surprised that a federal complaint of some sort was going to be filed? This seems like a logical progression to me.

On another matter, right or wrong, doing her job or not, I have to wonder if Gwen Florio has lost either her perspective, her objectivity or both? Neither would be good.

 

[Grizlaw]

I was wondering the same thing. I thought that was an odd accusation.

It was. After everything that's happened at UM, I'm hesitatant to dismiss any complaint made against anyone as not being a serious matter. But by including all of this seemingly irrelevant material (the Wilson accusation, and the mention of the Kemp/Johnson incident), it really makes this particular complainant look like someone who just has an axe to grind, in my view.

 

[getgrizzy]

I was wondering the same thing. I thought that was an odd accusation.

It was. After everything that's happened at UM, I'm hesitatant to dismiss any complaint made against anyone as not being a serious matter. But by including all of this seemingly irrelevant material (the Wilson accusation, and the mention of the Kemp/Johnson incident), it really makes this particular complainant look like someone who just has an axe to grind, in my view.

i think its a former employee or a student that worked in the a.d. office. just a hunch.

 

[wbtfg]

On another matter, right or wrong, doing her job or not, I have to wonder if Gwen Florio has lost either her perspective, her objectivity or both? Neither would be good.

Florio has a boss. I have to think that everything she writes is either assigned to her or at least approved by an editor. If what she is writing is way out of bounds or unethical, I would think it's her editor's job to reign her in.

 

[ranco]

Engstrom and the BOR may not have been aware the complaint had been filed but they most surely knew it was coming. Whether the "Dear Colleague Letter" was a mass mailing or sent to everyone doesn't matter. The presidents and the BOR knew they had a problem. Every step taken since then has been almost textbook. From the "training" to the "house cleaning" to the written response plan has been a part of an action plan for title IX. Title IX doesn't CARE about convictions. They only care about the environment female students are subjected too. You wold be hard pressed to find too many coeds who wouldn't comment that a double standard exists and where it was coming from. The only part missing at this point is Jim Foley who was as big a part of it as any participating in every spin needs to be gone. With all of the steps in place the university MAY be able to avoid the fines which will make the contract buy out look like a petty cash receipt.

I can guarantee you academic programs won't be what is cut to pay the fines.

There is one more foot to fall. Whether the new Title IX action plan coupled with adding Women's Softball will placate NCAA and any further action from them (which almost HAS to happen with a Title IX Action) If you think getting of a coach and AD who were at the helm while the "atmoshphere" was created coming from their departments and team will effect program, guess again. I only hope Engstroms action was enough.

No offense TNT but I'm pretty sure everything you said us utter and complete B&ll Sh&t. If it were true, don't you think Engstrom would have fired them for cause??? :shock: Plus, did you actually look at the "complaint" and the silly statements contained therein? Pretty clear that whoever made it has a pretty limited IQ and no actual knowledge of any thing factual. For Christs sake she was quoting crap from the Missoulian as a basis for her complaint.

 

[BWahlberg]

What I'm curious to know is what proof the complainant has that Jimmy Wilson intimidated any witness during his murder trial.

Assuming the answer is "none," I wonder if he'd be able to subpoena the complainant's identity in order to sue her for libel? :twocents:

I was wondering the same thing. I thought that was an odd accusation.

It's one of the main parts that really undermines the overall argument that we can read - it's tough to take someone's complaint seriously with wild-ass accusations like those unless this person has info to back it up.

 

[getgrizzy]

meanwhile jimmy wilson is sitting somewhere wondering if he's going to go on trial again. that whole thing about his aunt changing her story and the gun not being his and disappearing, ...