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New article: federal harassment complaint filed

grizpsych said:
Guess what? In the past few years, many people have been done wrong by members of the football team. There are consequences and here they come.

I know I may be the only one to hold this opinion, but here it is. I am a fan of the Griz football team because I am a fan of Missoula and the University of Montana. To me, Missoula and the UofM have always been beacons of light in an otherwise bigoted, hateful world. Unfortunately, part of the University's and by proxy, Missoula's reputration has been tarnished by members of the football team and the athletic program. So, I for one welcome a good cleaning out; I cannot wait for our program to regain what I respected about it most. And, in so doing, regain the prestige of the University and Missoula.
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While I'm far removed from the circles of people that would potentially be able to share additional info about those "many" who have been done wrong by the football team - I'd venture there's probably events that have occured that none of us know about nor will ever hear about, additionally I would bet the ratio of students in the general population who have taken part in these type of unacceptable behaviors is at a much higher ratio than what we see with the football team.

I do agree that the actions/events/news that has come out has most certainly tarnished our town, our school, and the team. I think that the actions of a possible select few have cast a horrible cloud over the rest of the men on this squad who are good students and good human beings. I've had great opportunities to meet with and talk with a lot of these guys be it after games, on campus, or in public when we cross paths and hear countless stories of the good deeds these men do. I remain supportive of those that continue to proudly be a Griz. Those that wont back down in the face of the onslaught of attacks that lumps the 95%(ish) of these guys who are good people with the few bad eggs that have created a negative image for the program.

These days will pass, my support will remain.
 
PlayerRep said:
Hum, a complaint by one person. More allegations on the front page. Engstrom not aware of it. Missoulian just happens to make a freedom of information request. This one smells like a particular accuser who took her story to the Missoulian. I assume not much will come of this complaint, but if it does, it will be interesting to see the university have to defend itself.
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Engstrom allegedly not aware of it, but named in the complaint. A disgruntled employee? Maybe known for not only partying with players but echoing their version of events at least until losing her job? Smells like a particular accuser? Yep. Not a good smell, either.
 
griz4life said:
Not too hard to figure out who filed the complaint. It wasn't filed by some innocent watching from the sideline. This is bullshit.
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Ok, who filed the complaint?
 
That initial complaint alleged “harassment/hostile workplace by football team,”

Can a student file a complaint for a hostile workplace by the football team? :?
 
And BTW I was told they did have a "training" as the person who filed the complaint calls it. A two-day workshop of sorts on that very issue, it was something (at the time) that was very well received by the "higher ups" as a good progressive action to help educate and inform the group as a whole.
 
wbtfg said:
hawaiiangriz said:
sorry - didn't read the LAST sentence that states our wonderful friend Gloria wrote this....
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Who is Gloria?
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that's probably gwen florio, the writer for the missoulian. she's on the growing list of people to blame. her, engstrom, the police, now the o.c.r. did i miss anyone? soon the n.c.a.a? :oops: :x
 
One answer to the question on why the administration has not commented on the firings, besides the lesson learned in the Kramer defamantion settlement, may well be that they knew that someone would be filing a federal complaint (it was hinted at between the lines in Missoulian reports since the outset with the constant reference to TItle IX) and were advised that if they acted decisively in advance it would work in their best interest in the long run. This would be the equivalent of athtletic department's turning themselves in and imposing some sort of sanction in advance of an NCAA probe to gather favor.

If this is the case, the administration is probably sitting back taking all this fire and thinking, in their mind, they made a choice for the best interest of the program in the long run and some day they will be vindicated. This theory makes as much sense as any other and provides some credit to the President for actually thinking it through several steps ahead.
 
lotsa said:
One answer to the question on why the administration has not commented on the firings, besides the lesson learned in the Kramer defamantion settlement, may well be that they knew that someone would be filing a federal complaint (it was hinted at between the lines in Missoulian reports since the outset with the constant reference to TItle IX) and were advised that if they acted decisively in advance it would work in their best interest in the long run. This would be the equivalent of athtletic department's turning themselves in and imposing some sort of sanction in advance of an NCAA probe to gather favor.

If this is the case, the administration is probably sitting back taking all this fire and thinking, in their mind, they made a choice for the best interest of the program in the long run and some day they will be vindicated. This theory makes as much sense as any other and provides some credit to the President for actually thinking it through several steps ahead.
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+1
 
I'm trying to figure out how a loud party (which was a bad thing) relates to a sexual harassment in the workplace complaint, any help out there? I don't see how it is close to relevant.
 
Engstrom and the BOR may not have been aware the complaint had been filed but they most surely knew it was coming. Whether the "Dear Colleague Letter" was a mass mailing or sent to everyone doesn't matter. The presidents and the BOR knew they had a problem. Every step taken since then has been almost textbook. From the "training" to the "house cleaning" to the written response plan has been a part of an action plan for title IX. Title IX doesn't CARE about convictions. They only care about the environment female students are subjected too. You wold be hard pressed to find too many coeds who wouldn't comment that a double standard exists and where it was coming from. The only part missing at this point is Jim Foley who was as big a part of it as any participating in every spin needs to be gone. With all of the steps in place the university MAY be able to avoid the fines which will make the contract buy out look like a petty cash receipt.

I can guarantee you academic programs won't be what is cut to pay the fines.

There is one more foot to fall. Whether the new Title IX action plan coupled with adding Women's Softball will placate NCAA and any further action from them (which almost HAS to happen with a Title IX Action) If you think getting of a coach and AD who were at the helm while the "atmoshphere" was created coming from their departments and team will effect program, guess again. I only hope Engstroms action was enough.
 
That is the worst article I've ever read in the Missoulian. It's not even news, yet it was splashed prominently on the front page. Seriously, how is Jimmy Wilson's "murder" trial even remotely relevant? The Missoulian should be ashamed.
 
tnt said:
Engstrom and the BOR may not have been aware the complaint had been filed but they most surely knew it was coming. Whether the "Dear Colleague Letter" was a mass mailing or sent to everyone doesn't matter. The presidents and the BOR knew they had a problem. Every step taken since then has been almost textbook. From the "training" to the "house cleaning" to the written response plan has been a part of an action plan for title IX. Title IX doesn't CARE about convictions. They only care about the environment female students are subjected too. You wold be hard pressed to find too many coeds who wouldn't comment that a double standard exists and where it was coming from. The only part missing at this point is Jim Foley who was as big a part of it as any participating in every spin needs to be gone. With all of the steps in place the university MAY be able to avoid the fines which will make the contract buy out look like a petty cash receipt.

I can guarantee you academic programs won't be what is cut to pay the fines.

There is one more foot to fall. Whether the new Title IX action plan coupled with adding Women's Softball will placate NCAA and any further action from them (which almost HAS to happen with a Title IX Action) If you think getting of a coach and AD who were at the helm while the "atmoshphere" was created coming from their departments and team will effect program, guess again. I only hope Engstroms action was enough.
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Your "guess" and that is exactly what it is, is as good as anyone's guess because I can tell yout that NO ONE on this board knows exactly what has taken place because NO ONE on this board is privvy to Engstrom's email, phone, etc. and you would have to have all the info to make a call on this
 
Its not much of a guess beyond who all is involved in creating the "hostile environment". Title IX is coming. The Bartz report will be part of the investigation. I'm reasonable certain there will be interviews of students (and if the half dozen or so coeds who rotate through my home weekly caring for my Granddaughter are any indication of what they will hear, that won't go well.

There is much more Damage that can occur to the sports program Football in particular.

Heres a pretty good summary If anyone reads through it, there are a lot fewer guesses:

http://www.natlawreview.com/article/allegations-sexual-harassment-and-sexual-violence-what-must-school-do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Gwen had to get her name back on the front page. I have a bad gut feeling about that lady. She obviously manipulates info and I would not put it past her to conspire with complaintant-yeah I know that thought is out in left field.

Gwen cannot be taken lightly. I believe only a portion of her agenda has to do with protecting women and I strongly support protecting women, but not at the expense of potentially innocent people!!!
 
tnt said:
Engstrom and the BOR may not have been aware the complaint had been filed but they most surely knew it was coming. Whether the "Dear Colleague Letter" was a mass mailing or sent to everyone doesn't matter. The presidents and the BOR knew they had a problem. Every step taken since then has been almost textbook. From the "training" to the "house cleaning" to the written response plan has been a part of an action plan for title IX. Title IX doesn't CARE about convictions. They only care about the environment female students are subjected too. You wold be hard pressed to find too many coeds who wouldn't comment that a double standard exists and where it was coming from. The only part missing at this point is Jim Foley who was as big a part of it as any participating in every spin needs to be gone. With all of the steps in place the university MAY be able to avoid the fines which will make the contract buy out look like a petty cash receipt.

I can guarantee you academic programs won't be what is cut to pay the fines.

There is one more foot to fall. Whether the new Title IX action plan coupled with adding Women's Softball will placate NCAA and any further action from them (which almost HAS to happen with a Title IX Action) If you think getting of a coach and AD who were at the helm while the "atmoshphere" was created coming from their departments and team will effect program, guess again. I only hope Engstroms action was enough.
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Most of your statements are total BS. Some of what you said is factually incorrect too. Title IX complaints are made to the federal government all the time. Thousands of them. Most go no where.

The below article and quote provide some good information on enforcement. Note that federal funds have never been denied to a school in this area. By the way, I'm pretty sure that fines are not permitted under enforcement of Title IX, but feel free to provide information and a citation to the contrary.

"The Office for Civil Rights certainly has the power to enforce the law: any school that is found to be violating Title IX risks losing its federal funds. But that punishment has never been used since Congress passed the law in 1972. And the office cannot cite any instance in which a case of suspected discrimination against female athletes was referred to the justice department for additional action."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/sports/review-shows-title-ix-is-not-significantly-enforced.html?pagewanted=all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Well Player Rep not that I don't want to play with you today. Fines may not be the correct word as they are civil penalties that can come from the feds and are determined in many cases by an administrative judge. Although the finding is the same thing as Sexual Discrimination. It pretty interesting from there. Of course a finding of Title IX violations would really get interesting. The University could/would spend years settling personal liability suits which of course would suddenly have a lot more merit. Hell once the sharks descend smelling blood there could be class action.

Will the feds investigate? Lets think about it. We have a former Congressman with a case of the red ass over the issue a Democrat as recall, his wife involved with the current administration who also has a case of the red ass. A situation that hasn't been confined to whispered rumors between disgruntled employees but instead made not only the local papers but has managed to make the national news and even showed up in the international news. gee I don't know. Seeing as the issue is mostly about overlooking or sweeping dirty laundry under the bed, what do you think the Feds will do.

New York Times aside this isn't an equal opportunities issue. How much do you think each of the known victims will get each?? Maybe Engstrom's actions will demonstrate due diligence (I hope so) but It won't be decided by a bunch of football fans.

If you are into reading try this: http://www.publicintegrity.org/investigations/campus_assault/articles/entry/1946/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If not towards the bottom you will find two recent settlements (by students) both upheld on appeal of suits brought against the univesties 2.25 mill in at UC and 850K in Arizona, Also the addition of 500 some odd staffers at OCR
 
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