NCAA Investigation Question

[PlayerRep]

i think what he means by the big picture is that "its the football culture, stupid." a school appears to have a bad culture when law firms are representing athletes pro bono, when the v.p. is at the law offices with the players, when the v.p. tries to change the wording of statements to make them not sound as bad as they actually are, when the coach doesn't tell the higher-ups that players are being investigated for gang rape, when the coach tells the media a player being investigated for rape is a high character individual, when the v.p. comes off like he's suggesting retribution on a rape victim, when athl. dept. staff doesn't attend seminars or have players attend readily available classes on rape.

Counterpoint:

The law firm represents lots of people pro bono (as it is obligated to do by lawyers ethical rules), and the statement said it had done so with athletes in the past. This may have been many years ago.

Foley probably went to the law offices as part of UM's investigation of what had occurred in the incident, so that UM could determine the facts, learn about the legal situation and where it would likely go, and be able to determine what immediate disciplinary action, if any, to take.

The vp, who was the head of public relations for UM, was probably just trying to get the released information accurate. In this particular situation, it turned out that the police and the university panel determined that there was no sexual assault at all, let alone gang rape, according to newspaper articles and what has been posted on egriz. Looks like the vp was just doing his job--and was right. This part of what public relations is about.

On not telling higher-ups that players were being investigated, the investigation was already over when the coach learned of it. He received limited information. I wonder if he even knew the accuser was a student. There was no university policy requiring him to report the matter to anyone. He took his own disciplinary action against the players. As noted above, the police and the university panel determined that no sexual assault had occurred.

It is not true that the vp suggested retribution against the accuser. The vp merely asked an internal question. This is the vp's internal email, as quoted by the Missoulian: "Is it not a violation of the student code for the woman to be publicly talking about the process and providing details about the conclusion? Help me understand please." Where's the suggestion of retribution in that internal communication?

Who has said the athletic dept doesn't attend seminars on rape? I haven't noticed that.

Actually, almost the whole team attended a session on sexual assault, which had been set up for all athletes. No athlete other than football players attended the session.

countercounterpoint:
-if the players represented for free was years ago, then datso woulda said so.
-v.p. coulda got all that information without leaving his office.
-the accusation was gang-rape. it doesn't matter that no charges were filed.
-the matter wasn't settled when pflu got the information. the higherups absolutely need to know if there is an investigation. this is the case in any corporation or bureaucracy. i can't imagine any administrator finding out after the fact that an investigation of gang-rape was going and he wasn't informed. "There is evidence that there has been a sexual assault that has not been appropriately reported and investigated," Barz wrote.
-you could take that either way, which is the problem.
-"And when Pflugrad acceded to a suggestion that all student-athletes be required to take a course on relationships – and that the Athletic Department pay for it – assistant athletic director Jean Gee put a quick kibosh on the plan. “I just feel strongly this is a bad idea,” she wrote, adding that athletes had little time in their schedules for another elective course."

Counter-counter point.

If the lawyer was asked, have you ever represented a student-athlete in the past on a pro bono basis, the lawyer may have just said yes to question. It is unlikely that the lawyer just offered up that he represented a student-athlete on a pro bono basis in the past.

Nope, the very best way to get information is to get it first hand, so that you can understand the communication better and read the expressions on people's faces. Also, with in-person meetings, you get to see and have more back-and-forth. In any event, it's no big deal if there's multiple ways of getting information. This is probably what Foley chose to do. The matter was going to be in the press the next day, and he needed answers and information on that Sunday.

It doesn't matter what an accusation is or an accuser says. What matters is what the facts support and the university believes. The dean thought it was gang rape, but he obviously was completely wrong. And now he's retired. Most organizes don't release information based on only what an accuser said.

The police investigation had ended. The coach got minimum information. I assume he didn't know the accuser's name and probably didn't know she was a student. The police probably wouldn't have provided that information. Please don't mis-characterize the facts. There was no investigation going on. It had ended. In any event, what would the university have done with the information? I don't believe they could start an proceeding without a complaint from the accuser. Again, in any event, it turned out not be a sexual assault. Barz chose the wrong words. In a later report, Barz said that there was no obligation/policy to report up the matter, I believe. At the time of the report, Barz wouldn't have known that the police declined to pursue the matter for a second time, and that the panel would rule 7-0 for the accuseds.

The athletes/team attended a different sexual assault presentation. Gee's view that it wasn't worth it to pay the money for a course on relationships, and athletes didn't have enough time to do another course. She apparently believed the presentation was sufficient, or perhaps even better than the course. In any event, the coach had suggested it, and an administrator apparently made the decision not to do it.

 

[tnt]

This humble Griz fan thinks that ms tnt should become a fan of Idaho State. Locked in the bottom rungs tnt would have a great experience.

Idaho State may not notice an increase of *#**#*#* and UM would be happy. Win win for sure!

Were it not for the ISU and other whipping boys of the BSC, the Griz might not be quite so poised to move up, or if Nevada Reno, Boise State or Idaho not left, would we be so dominant.lest we forget they have done little since and were kicking our buts before. But most of the "move up crowd" weren't even fans yet.

But nothing is forever and all of that doesn't change the fact we still can't compete academically with the big boys, and unless we want the thugs, academic problems etc. we would not be able to compete on the field either.

 

[br fan]

This humble Griz fan thinks that ms tnt should become a fan of Idaho State. Locked in the bottom rungs tnt would have a great experience.

Idaho State may not notice an increase of *#**#*#* and UM would be happy. Win win for sure!

Were it not for the ISU and other whipping boys of the BSC, the Griz might not be quite so poised to move up, or if Nevada Reno, Boise State or Idaho not left, would we be so dominant.lest we forget they have done little since and were kicking our buts before. But most of the "move up crowd" weren't even fans yet.

But nothing is forever and all of that doesn't change the fact we still can't compete academically with the big boys, and unless we want the thugs, academic problems etc. we would not be able to compete on the field either.

The Griz weren't talking about moving up to the PAC10 (12). If I remember correctly part of the justification for moving up was that we, and MSU if they joined us, would then be with our academic peer institutions of Idaho, Utah State, Wyoming, New Mexico, New Mexico State etc. Are you stating that UM cannot compete academically with those institutions, but instead compares more with the Southern Utahs, Eastern Washingtons, Sac State's etc?

 

[tnt]

Don't forget Northern Colorado who exceeds us academically, and when it comes down to it sadly UM's research money grants etc. has declined mightly against even MSU and Eastern. (I'm doubting Foley can turn it around. RE has history of doing so. We could perhaps compete with those schools, but they are way out of our traditional recruiting area and we are not quite "there" yet. We will be, just not yet.

It was an argument at the time, but not a convincing one. Won't be until we work some on admission standards and the state makes The universities a priority.

We can get there but we need to be there first academically.

 

[EverettGriz]

tnt, please stop referring to UM and the Griz as "we". The lying is rather unbecoming.

And to suggest that Montana isn't on the same academic level as the majority of FBS schools is so patently wrong as to be unworthy of a formal reply.

 

[kemajic]

Were it not for the ISU and other whipping boys of the BSC, the Griz might not be quite so poised to move up, or if Nevada Reno, Boise State or Idaho not left, would we be so dominant.lest we forget they have done little since and were kicking our buts before. But most of the "move up crowd" weren't even fans yet.

Montana has beaten Idaho 8 of the last 10 meetings. Last encounter with BSU? UM 54-28. Personally, I've been a Griz fan since the days of the Montana/Wyoming games in Billings. Are you expecting to become a fan in the future?

 

[tnt]

Were it not for the ISU and other whipping boys of the BSC, the Griz might not be quite so poised to move up, or if Nevada Reno, Boise State or Idaho not left, would we be so dominant.lest we forget they have done little since and were kicking our buts before. But most of the "move up crowd" weren't even fans yet.

Montana has beaten Idaho 8 of the last 10 meetings. Last encounter with BSU? UM 54-28. Personally, I've been a Griz fan since the days of the Montana/Wyoming games in Billings. Are you expecting to become a fan in the future?

It was competitive. How many BSC championships did we win before they all left. Course Idaho wzntx to come back.

Academically we Are in ststistical tie 119 -130 way ahead of MSU BTW There are 120 FBS schools, we'd be in the lower third. The fact syill remains we would be at a recruiting disadvantage regionally and whether we stay where we are or move up is not a reflection of the importance of our program.

 

[Umista]

tnt loves to irritate. In turn it causes me to scratch. Now does that make tnt an itch?

 

[kemajic]

Were it not for the ISU and other whipping boys of the BSC, the Griz might not be quite so poised to move up, or if Nevada Reno, Boise State or Idaho not left, would we be so dominant.lest we forget they have done little since and were kicking our buts before. But most of the "move up crowd" weren't even fans yet.

Montana has beaten Idaho 8 of the last 10 meetings. Last encounter with BSU? UM 54-28. Personally, I've been a Griz fan since the days of the Montana/Wyoming games in Billings. Are you expecting to become a fan in the future?

It was competitive. How many BSC championships did we win before they all left. Course Idaho wzntx to come back.

Quit the lies; Idaho does not want to come back for football; they have no interest in FCS. They are talking about BSC affilliation for olympic sports only, for which the BSC and the WAC are at the same level.

To answer your question, Montana won one NC (1995) when Idaho and BSU were still in the conf. Among BSU, Nevada and Idaho, the only NC was BSU's in 1980, which was before Montana became competitive. Nevada and Idaho never won one. After the coming of Reid and the new stadium in '86, Montana competed very well those three. It was a really good conference in those days. More offense than defense.