-
Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts access private forums and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!
ncaa findings
- Thread starter gotgriz
- Start date
GrizMusician
Well-known member
grizfan95 said:
No. For us, the game is omitted. The opponent still retains the L.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
PlayerRep said:
So that isn't an NCAA violation? Whew, that is good, because with everyone talking I thought for a second there that the Grizzlies got hit with sanctions for NCAA violations. Good to hear that this was all a misunderstanding and will all get cleared up once you inform the rules committee what exactly is and is not a violation.
grizfan95 said:
This was already addresses on page 1 by Gah-riz which is why no one answered you earlier. The opponents still retain the loss according to him. I'm assuming he is correct.
I disagree with those of you who state that this matter is or should be behind us. I find the entire process to be beyond ludicrous. The so-called undisputed findings here appear only to be what UM identified as being what they understood to be violations. And it is clear that the sanctions imposed were those that were recommended by the University to the NCAA. If that is the case, why did it take 18 months give or take to reach this conclusion?! Hell, this could have been done in a month!
Further, I am disturbed by the entire indication that based on these findings, the sanctions are appropriate for the alleged violations. While I have not studied the NCAA rules extensively as apparently some of you have, I have read enough to know that for every rule the NCAA has there is another rule that seemingly contradicts, or modifies the implementation of those rules. Thus how can anyone positively establish that the punishment fits the crime.
I am not suggesting that the University or the Football Program were squeaky clean. Clearly they were not. But I defy anyone to find a program that is. I am also not arguing that there should not have been some sanctions for failure to monitor the program, and the possible overuse of student coaching assistants. There will be further discussion about the concept of free legal services, or of relatives who are boosters helping post bail, which I do not believe happened, at least not in the way it has been portrayed.
The free meal issue is simply asinine. 100 free meals over 8 years! WOW!! Assuming on average 75 players suiting up per annum for home games and assuming 6 home games a year for 8 years that equates to 3600 potential opportunities to provide a free meal to a player. This equates to 0.02778 meal per player or on average 3 peas and a boiled baby carrot!
It certainly seems to me that rather than fight the archaic and unworkable rules imposed by the NCAA on member institutions that both Engstrom and Haslem took the easy way out to the overall detriment of the program.
Further, I am disturbed by the entire indication that based on these findings, the sanctions are appropriate for the alleged violations. While I have not studied the NCAA rules extensively as apparently some of you have, I have read enough to know that for every rule the NCAA has there is another rule that seemingly contradicts, or modifies the implementation of those rules. Thus how can anyone positively establish that the punishment fits the crime.
I am not suggesting that the University or the Football Program were squeaky clean. Clearly they were not. But I defy anyone to find a program that is. I am also not arguing that there should not have been some sanctions for failure to monitor the program, and the possible overuse of student coaching assistants. There will be further discussion about the concept of free legal services, or of relatives who are boosters helping post bail, which I do not believe happened, at least not in the way it has been portrayed.
The free meal issue is simply asinine. 100 free meals over 8 years! WOW!! Assuming on average 75 players suiting up per annum for home games and assuming 6 home games a year for 8 years that equates to 3600 potential opportunities to provide a free meal to a player. This equates to 0.02778 meal per player or on average 3 peas and a boiled baby carrot!
It certainly seems to me that rather than fight the archaic and unworkable rules imposed by the NCAA on member institutions that both Engstrom and Haslem took the easy way out to the overall detriment of the program.
While I think avoiding a playoff ban is a great thing for UM (especially given the expansion to 24 teams this year), I think many on this board are in denial about the effects of losing four scholarships a year for the next three years. This will have a great impact on recruiting and especially on in-state recruiting. UM will still go after the same out-of-state players, most of which require a full-ride to get them to come, leaving much less scholarship money available for in-state recruits.
This is the same situation MSU faced when it was down scholarships due to the APR issues. It is difficult to attract the in-state recruits when one school only has partial scholarships to offer (or less of a partial scholarship) compared to other schools recruiting the same kid. The results really show up in the depth on the team. Once a few injuries happens the effects really can be seen because there isn't the quality on the 2nd and 3rd teams, and more true freshman and sophomores end up playing.
This is the same situation MSU faced when it was down scholarships due to the APR issues. It is difficult to attract the in-state recruits when one school only has partial scholarships to offer (or less of a partial scholarship) compared to other schools recruiting the same kid. The results really show up in the depth on the team. Once a few injuries happens the effects really can be seen because there isn't the quality on the 2nd and 3rd teams, and more true freshman and sophomores end up playing.
mtgrizrule
Well-known member
Other than this being made official and more details now, the penalties and outcome was posted by a few egrizzers in late winter/early spring were pretty damn close to accurate.
(1) Loss of a few scholarships (2) Forfeiture/Vacating of games (3) Minor improper coaching infractions (4) legal representation (5) Meals. The only things different now are, we did not know which coach did what. We did not know extent of meals. Of course, the time frame for making an official release was way later than expected.
I doubt the idiots and jerks calling out the posters for giving egrizzers an idea of what to expect will man up by apologizing to them for not knowing the fact, or telling them they were wrong. All be damned, it looks like those posters posting this information then, turned out to be pretty damn close to nailing it!!!
No wonder EGRIZ has lost a few too many informative posters. Meanwhile the few remaining limit what they post because of the idiotic jerks here (a small minority by the way).
Another surprise, safe to say this was a pretty thorough investigation, and pretty fair outcome. I can only dispute the how nit picky the NCAA got on the food, and parents bailing a player out. I am sure minor crap like this happens at most programs. I am not surprised by this, but I am sure the Hauck bashers were hoping to have implications found under his watch. Correct me if I am wrong, not one finding under his watch!!! How do the bashers feel and haters feel about that? I am sure a few open minded haters or bashers will somewhat admit to be too hard on him. Seriously, hope you all feel good about dragging his name through mud over the years. I suppose some of you think he has the NCAA in his back pocket and/or got lucky to have found no major infractions by him or his staff.
Not sure how the GRIZ will now divide up the remaining scholarships. I have a feeling it will be fewer players splitting scholarships, and will impact the roster depth at a lower levels. I really don't see it impacting the front line players and ability to land less immediate impact recruits. I really am not worried about the loss of scholarships.
I am just happy this nightmare is finally over, and we can all move on, and can look forward to GRIZ Football positively again. Only question I still have, What in the hell took so long to release this? They knew the results of this before spring camp began. I can only think of more investigation or proof being needed for JJ's representation. Sounds like that was up and up, and 100% administered correctly by the school, JJ, his family, and his representation. GO GRIZ!!!!
(1) Loss of a few scholarships (2) Forfeiture/Vacating of games (3) Minor improper coaching infractions (4) legal representation (5) Meals. The only things different now are, we did not know which coach did what. We did not know extent of meals. Of course, the time frame for making an official release was way later than expected.
I doubt the idiots and jerks calling out the posters for giving egrizzers an idea of what to expect will man up by apologizing to them for not knowing the fact, or telling them they were wrong. All be damned, it looks like those posters posting this information then, turned out to be pretty damn close to nailing it!!!
No wonder EGRIZ has lost a few too many informative posters. Meanwhile the few remaining limit what they post because of the idiotic jerks here (a small minority by the way).
Another surprise, safe to say this was a pretty thorough investigation, and pretty fair outcome. I can only dispute the how nit picky the NCAA got on the food, and parents bailing a player out. I am sure minor crap like this happens at most programs. I am not surprised by this, but I am sure the Hauck bashers were hoping to have implications found under his watch. Correct me if I am wrong, not one finding under his watch!!! How do the bashers feel and haters feel about that? I am sure a few open minded haters or bashers will somewhat admit to be too hard on him. Seriously, hope you all feel good about dragging his name through mud over the years. I suppose some of you think he has the NCAA in his back pocket and/or got lucky to have found no major infractions by him or his staff.
Not sure how the GRIZ will now divide up the remaining scholarships. I have a feeling it will be fewer players splitting scholarships, and will impact the roster depth at a lower levels. I really don't see it impacting the front line players and ability to land less immediate impact recruits. I really am not worried about the loss of scholarships.
I am just happy this nightmare is finally over, and we can all move on, and can look forward to GRIZ Football positively again. Only question I still have, What in the hell took so long to release this? They knew the results of this before spring camp began. I can only think of more investigation or proof being needed for JJ's representation. Sounds like that was up and up, and 100% administered correctly by the school, JJ, his family, and his representation. GO GRIZ!!!!
The thing we all need to remember is the NCAA was NEVER going to leave town without some type of penalty imposed. They came to town looking for major violations. They found none, hence the slap on the wrist nitpicky report they produced. Had they found major violations, none of the "violations" in this report would have even been mentioned. The NCAA is the last organization on earth that would come out and say "we spent 18 months on this and all is fine, our bad"!! I guarantee that the NCAA could spend 18 months on any university campus in the country and find similar results. But, UM got singled out and the good news was no major violations and no post season ban. It's time for football, fellas, and i for one can't wait!!!
F the NCAA!!!!!
F the NCAA!!!!!
Gaeilge1 said:
Couldn't agree more. I am in the credit union industry and had a conversation with an NCUA examiner regarding an overzealous examiner who had managed to get two credit union CEO's fired. This guy's response to me was "well, she may be a bitch, but unfortunately she was right twice, so the higher ups LOVE her". I told him "give me one week...ONE WEEK in any shop in the country and I will be able to build an arguable case to have the CEO fired."
The same thing applies here. This kind of penny ante bullshit goes on in every single program in America. To be fined/penalized/lose scholarships over this shit is ludicrous. I'm guessing most of this shit was known when Pflugrad and O'Day were fired, and these were just some of the reasons WHY they were fired. That honestly should have been the end of it. I think this university got caught in a perfect storm where scrutiny was brought down upon them because of the highly visible rape cases and thus a mountain was made from what amounts to a mole hill....
mtgrizrule
Well-known member
Hammer said:
If it has happened, we would never hear of it. The media reports mostly the negative. :thumb:
Catsrback76
Well-known member
Congratulations on the closing of "wiener-gate"! Now, you can take your lumps, appropriately so only on the field of play. I am so looking forward to the Cat demolishing of the griz this year because there will be no more excuses!
Hey, that should be the 2013 motto for the griz, "no more excuses"!
All in all, your university and program dodged a bullet and can now begin to build on new foundations. Do it right, be humble, and enjoy the game for what it is, a game!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Hey, that should be the 2013 motto for the griz, "no more excuses"!
All in all, your university and program dodged a bullet and can now begin to build on new foundations. Do it right, be humble, and enjoy the game for what it is, a game!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
grizfromhel
Well-known member
Good analysis Gailege. And consider the perverse incentives for Engstrom to agree to these charges: the more severe the findings and punishment, the more they seem to justify his firing---that's what it was--- of Pflugrad and O'Day.
Not surprising that the only one named in the report, at least as reported in press accounts, to take the fall was Pflugrad. Engstrom is happy to have it pinned on him.
With RE at the helm I'm afraid that my alma mater is doing nothing but going downhill. It will be interesting to see the enrollment figures when they come out this fall. Maybe they'll have to "retire" a few of the tenured professors who should have been gone long ago.
Not surprising that the only one named in the report, at least as reported in press accounts, to take the fall was Pflugrad. Engstrom is happy to have it pinned on him.
With RE at the helm I'm afraid that my alma mater is doing nothing but going downhill. It will be interesting to see the enrollment figures when they come out this fall. Maybe they'll have to "retire" a few of the tenured professors who should have been gone long ago.
Catsrback76 said:
I am certainly disappointed in our leadership as a self-report = slap on the wrist, but lack of integrity cost those kids in a big way. Not me, I am awful at football, but those student athletes who did it the right way now pay a price.
I take issue with your, "dodged a bullet," comment. We are paying the price for our mistakes; a heftier price than MSU paid for having a Coach use my tax dollars to distribute meth to your community. Not one part of that previous statement is false. However, it does not exempt us from being penalized for poor judgment on the part of a select few; I expected more. A classy move from Trumaine would be to match the amount required for charity.
One things for sure, we certainly won't be using you or any other "Pious Kitties," as the model to rebuild a program based on humility.
Up With Montana!
Latest posts
-
-
2027 Montana Recruiting (20) Verbals & (20) Offers (2) 2028 Offers- Latest: Paytonlives
-
