NCAA... crap or get off the crapper!

[griz4life]

I not so sure but what they shouldn't look at it. it was typical of the arrogance at the time. BUT foley was on his way to pasture anyway. The one beholding to pat Williams was Dennison. One of Dennisons building projects got a rather nice boost from some Williams pork, of course it came with conditions Foley was one of them. One of RE's first moves was to demote Foley, his next demotion/retirement was inevitable. If we were to point a finger at anybody for the mess, it would be Foley

Williams pork? Do name the building project, and the source of this pork of which you speak, and explain in detail exactly what Williams did to leverage this money. And while you're at it, list the dates at which all this allegedly transpired so we can see how it corollates with the hiring of Jim Foley.
I'm no fan of Williams or Foley, but you're overplaying your hand.

 

[Copper Griz]

Don't use Williams in the same sentence as "pork" - it might be construed wrong and you could end up on trial.

 

[tnt]

I not so sure but what they shouldn't look at it. it was typical of the arrogance at the time. BUT foley was on his way to pasture anyway. The one beholding to pat Williams was Dennison. One of Dennisons building projects got a rather nice boost from some Williams pork, of course it came with conditions Foley was one of them. One of RE's first moves was to demote Foley, his next demotion/retirement was inevitable. If we were to point a finger at anybody for the mess, it would be Foley

Williams pork? Do name the building project, and the source of this pork of which you speak, and explain in detail exactly what Williams did to leverage this money. And while you're at it, list the dates at which all this allegedly transpired so we can see how it corollates with the hiring of Jim Foley.
I'm no fan of Williams or Foley, but you're overplaying your hand.

There were several coming out of Williams term prior to his "special appointment" and Foleys hire. They were pushed through Congress and later for pennies on dollars "matching" from the state legislature (who didn't have session until after Williams left office) The specific projects I can't name, but you can choose they all came within months of each other: there were 33.5 million dollars at the time 23 million for the Life building, 3.5 million for Native Studies study center, and 10 million for Forrestry/Journalism. Ask any of the Deans and Senior faculty around at the time, and for that matter what they thought of Foley (and especially his "qualifications".......)

Its no wonder why Pat sits where he does today......

 

[griz4life]

Journalism and Native American studies? You're talking about projects that weren't even on the books until eight years after Pat Williams quit Congress. And I do mean quit. Republicans had taken control of the House and poor old Pat had no access to the pork barrel.

 

[BWahlberg]

Total guess here but I'm thinking the NCAA has in hand:

- All sorts of information from player interviews on some rather minor infractions involving meals, etc. Mostly tailgate/game day food would be my guess based on the stern "don't feed players after games" memo all tailgate pass owners received.

- The Barz report

- The Donaldson verdict

- Some other statements/info from a few boosters/former players/etc

What I bet they're waiting on is the Johnson trial and if the Dept of Ed or DOJ release any reports in the meanwhile. If you look back at other investigations they relied heavily on other groups reports to help them make their punishment decisions. While it's on a different level if you look back the NCAA slapped Penn St I think less than 1 week after the Sandusky trial ended. They could be looking to move on a similar path.

I suspect they may frown on Foley taking Johnson and Kemp to the booster attorney in the tasing case as well. There were questions from Gwen as to whether he did that for non-athletes. You can bet she reported that to NCAA. It put him out to pasture.

That would be an issue if that were true, however that was a 2nd meeting with the attorney who was already hired by the families. The players were not being escorted by the AD to a booster attorney but were brining the AD to the booster attorney they'd already hired.

 

[PlayerRep]

Total guess here but I'm thinking the NCAA has in hand:

- All sorts of information from player interviews on some rather minor infractions involving meals, etc. Mostly tailgate/game day food would be my guess based on the stern "don't feed players after games" memo all tailgate pass owners received.

- The Barz report

- The Donaldson verdict

- Some other statements/info from a few boosters/former players/etc

What I bet they're waiting on is the Johnson trial and if the Dept of Ed or DOJ release any reports in the meanwhile. If you look back at other investigations they relied heavily on other groups reports to help them make their punishment decisions. While it's on a different level if you look back the NCAA slapped Penn St I think less than 1 week after the Sandusky trial ended. They could be looking to move on a similar path.

I suspect they may frown on Foley taking Johnson and Kemp to the booster attorney in the tasing case as well. There were questions from Gwen as to whether he did that for non-athletes. You can bet she reported that to NCAA. It put him out to pasture.

That would be an issue if that were true, however that was a 2nd meeting with the attorney who was already hired by the families. The players were not being escorted by the AD to a booster attorney but were brining the AD to the booster attorney they'd already hired.

Kemp and his family selected the attorney. Kemp's family knew an attorney in Milt's firm. The son of the attorney did some work, like video work, for the football team. Foley and UM had nothing to do with picking the attorney.

 

[grizfromhel]

I have always thought that the NCAA came in as a follow-along to the DOJ and DOE investigations. Just in case those other federal agencies came up with some real "stinking mackarels" they wanted to be able to use those investigations and charges as the basis for NCAA violations.

It looks increasingly unlikely to me that DOJ in particular is going to come up with anything substantial quite apart from the outcome of the JJ prosecution. There simply is little evidence of some systematic effort to thwart the prosecution of UM athletes. And the implication that UM student athletes, in particular football players, could engage in sexual assaults and other felonies with impunity is not supported by any credible evidence. Look no further that the prosecutions of Beau Donaldson and now of Jordan Johnson.

 

[Cats2506]

Total guess here but I'm thinking the NCAA has in hand:

- All sorts of information from player interviews on some rather minor infractions involving meals, etc. Mostly tailgate/game day food would be my guess based on the stern "don't feed players after games" memo all tailgate pass owners received.

- The Barz report

- The Donaldson verdict

- Some other statements/info from a few boosters/former players/etc

What I bet they're waiting on is the Johnson trial and if the Dept of Ed or DOJ release any reports in the meanwhile. If you look back at other investigations they relied heavily on other groups reports to help them make their punishment decisions. While it's on a different level if you look back the NCAA slapped Penn St I think less than 1 week after the Sandusky trial ended. They could be looking to move on a similar path.

I suspect they may frown on Foley taking Johnson and Kemp to the booster attorney in the tasing case as well. There were questions from Gwen as to whether he did that for non-athletes. You can bet she reported that to NCAA. It put him out to pasture.

That would be an issue if that were true, however that was a 2nd meeting with the attorney who was already hired by the families. The players were not being escorted by the AD to a booster attorney but were brining the AD to the booster attorney they'd already hired.

any AD worth his salt would have known to stay away, since the lawyers were boosters then any appearance by the AD at the law offices is suspect of preferential treatment by the NCAA

 

[BWahlberg]

Total guess here but I'm thinking the NCAA has in hand:

- All sorts of information from player interviews on some rather minor infractions involving meals, etc. Mostly tailgate/game day food would be my guess based on the stern "don't feed players after games" memo all tailgate pass owners received.

- The Barz report

- The Donaldson verdict

- Some other statements/info from a few boosters/former players/etc

What I bet they're waiting on is the Johnson trial and if the Dept of Ed or DOJ release any reports in the meanwhile. If you look back at other investigations they relied heavily on other groups reports to help them make their punishment decisions. While it's on a different level if you look back the NCAA slapped Penn St I think less than 1 week after the Sandusky trial ended. They could be looking to move on a similar path.

I suspect they may frown on Foley taking Johnson and Kemp to the booster attorney in the tasing case as well. There were questions from Gwen as to whether he did that for non-athletes. You can bet she reported that to NCAA. It put him out to pasture.

That would be an issue if that were true, however that was a 2nd meeting with the attorney who was already hired by the families. The players were not being escorted by the AD to a booster attorney but were brining the AD to the booster attorney they'd already hired.

any AD worth his salt would have known to stay away, since the lawyers were boosters then any appearance by the AD at the law offices is suspect of preferential treatment by the NCAA

Pretty much everyone in Missoula is a booster. There was no improper benefit in hiring the attorneys or having the AD attend a follow up meeting.

Unless there's something I'm unaware of I don't think there's any issue that was found with that event in the terms of preferential treatment.

 

[PlayerRep]

And the university needed to get up to speed fast, as they were going to have to decide fairly quickly what to do with the players (as it was in-season). This was a good way to get up to speed quickly. In addition, there were allegations of police misbehavior, racist comments and civil rights obligation. The university needed to evaluate that too. Lastly, due the number of players and other students there, the university had access to considerable other information that was presumably relevant to the defense attorney. Also note that Milt's firm has not historically been, from what has been in the media and the rumor mill, the law firm or lawyer of choice for matters involving athletes. Several other lawyers have been the go-to lawyers.

 

[Cats2506]

I suspect they may frown on Foley taking Johnson and Kemp to the booster attorney in the tasing case as well. There were questions from Gwen as to whether he did that for non-athletes. You can bet she reported that to NCAA. It put him out to pasture.

That would be an issue if that were true, however that was a 2nd meeting with the attorney who was already hired by the families. The players were not being escorted by the AD to a booster attorney but were brining the AD to the booster attorney they'd already hired.

any AD worth his salt would have known to stay away, since the lawyers were boosters then any appearance by the AD at the law offices is suspect of preferential treatment by the NCAA

Pretty much everyone in Missoula is a booster. There was no improper benefit in hiring the attorneys or having the AD attend a follow up meeting.

Unless there's something I'm unaware of I don't think there's any issue that was found with that event in the terms of preferential treatment.

Yeah, AD's everywhere go with players to their attorneys office when they are in trouble :roll:

like I said, any AD worth his salt knows enough to stay away from that

 

[Cats2506]

And the university needed to get up to speed fast, as they were going to have to decide fairly quickly what to do with the players (as it was in-season). This was a good way to get up to speed quickly. In addition, there were allegations of police misbehavior, racist comments and civil rights obligation. The university needed to evaluate that too. Lastly, due the number of players and other students there, the university had access to considerable other information that was presumably relevant to the defense attorney. Also note that Milt's firm has not historically been, from what has been in the media and the rumor mill, the law firm or lawyer of choice for matters involving athletes. Several other lawyers have been the go-to lawyers.

You are saying that the AD was assisting in the defense before they even entered a plea, yeah thats what the NCAA thought too :lol:

 

[mtgrizrule]

Better get more crappers for the NCAA. I turned on the Miami/Fl State basketball game on ESPNU. I started to read this thread. Coincidentally enough, ESPN announce team mention how frustrated the Miami Athletic Department is with the delay on their investigation. Apparently the NCAA told them, it is further delayed now, because of the actions internally within the NCAA itself.

Their investigation started before Montana's did. If this drags on much longer for all schools under investigation, I wonder what legal rights those schools can pursue. I thought I seen somewhere, investigations are to be wrapped up in a year from the time they start, then results shortly thereafter.

These investigations cannot continue on much longer without some sort of legal action against the NCAA. I feel Miami and Montana all are reasonable expecting results by the time Spring ball starts.

 

[PlayerRep]

That would be an issue if that were true, however that was a 2nd meeting with the attorney who was already hired by the families. The players were not being escorted by the AD to a booster attorney but were brining the AD to the booster attorney they'd already hired.

any AD worth his salt would have known to stay away, since the lawyers were boosters then any appearance by the AD at the law offices is suspect of preferential treatment by the NCAA

Pretty much everyone in Missoula is a booster. There was no improper benefit in hiring the attorneys or having the AD attend a follow up meeting.

Unless there's something I'm unaware of I don't think there's any issue that was found with that event in the terms of preferential treatment.

Yeah, AD's everywhere go with players to their attorneys office when they are in trouble :roll:

like I said, any AD worth his salt knows enough to stay away from that

It's not uncommon for representatives of a university, or athletic department, to communicate and/or meet with defense counsel, as well as to communicate and meet with police/investigators. It happens frequently all around the country.

 

[Cats2506]

any AD worth his salt would have known to stay away, since the lawyers were boosters then any appearance by the AD at the law offices is suspect of preferential treatment by the NCAA

Pretty much everyone in Missoula is a booster. There was no improper benefit in hiring the attorneys or having the AD attend a follow up meeting.

Unless there's something I'm unaware of I don't think there's any issue that was found with that event in the terms of preferential treatment.

Yeah, AD's everywhere go with players to their attorneys office when they are in trouble :roll:

like I said, any AD worth his salt knows enough to stay away from that

It's not uncommon for representatives of a university, or athletic department, to communicate and/or meet with defense counsel, as well as to communicate and meet with police/investigators. It happens frequently all around the country.

as part of an investigation, yes, as part of the defense, no

 

[Cats2506]

Better get more crappers for the NCAA. I turned on the Miami/Fl State basketball game on ESPNU. I started to read this thread. Coincidentally enough, ESPN announce team mention how frustrated the Miami Athletic Department is with the delay on their investigation. Apparently the NCAA told them, it is further delayed now, because of the actions internally within the NCAA itself.

Their investigation started before Montana's did. If this drags on much longer for all schools under investigation, I wonder what legal rights those schools can pursue. I thought I seen somewhere, investigations are to be wrapped up in a year from the time they start, then results shortly thereafter.

These investigations cannot continue on much longer without some sort of legal action against the NCAA. I feel Miami and Montana all are reasonable expecting results by the time Spring ball starts.

you can end you membership with the NCAA and go NAIA :thumb:

 

[PlayerRep]

And the university needed to get up to speed fast, as they were going to have to decide fairly quickly what to do with the players (as it was in-season). This was a good way to get up to speed quickly. In addition, there were allegations of police misbehavior, racist comments and civil rights obligation. The university needed to evaluate that too. Lastly, due the number of players and other students there, the university had access to considerable other information that was presumably relevant to the defense attorney. Also note that Milt's firm has not historically been, from what has been in the media and the rumor mill, the law firm or lawyer of choice for matters involving athletes. Several other lawyers have been the go-to lawyers.

You are saying that the AD was assisting in the defense before they even entered a plea, yeah thats what the NCAA thought too :lol:

I'm sure UM provided whatever information it had to police and defense counsel. That's not unusual or uncommon. That's how the system works. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact, a university cannot withhold relevant information, as eventually it can be obtained by a subpoena from the prosecution or the defense.

 

[NorthwestFresh]

Pretty much everyone in Missoula is a booster. There was no improper benefit in hiring the attorneys or having the AD attend a follow up meeting.

Unless there's something I'm unaware of I don't think there's any issue that was found with that event in the terms of preferential treatment.

There is a difference between being a fan and an NCAA-defined "booster". :shock:

 

[BWahlberg]

Pretty much everyone in Missoula is a booster. There was no improper benefit in hiring the attorneys or having the AD attend a follow up meeting.

Unless there's something I'm unaware of I don't think there's any issue that was found with that event in the terms of preferential treatment.

There is a difference between being a fan and an NCAA-defined "booster". :shock:

Of course there is, however per the definition of how the NCAA views a booster they could probably link a big chunk of Missoula as a booster.

Who is a Representative of Athletics Interests?

The NCAA broadly defines a "booster" as an individual, agency, entity or organization who is known by an institution to:

1. Have participated in or been a member of an agency that promotes the institution's intercollegiate athletics program

2. Have made financial contributions to the athletics department or a booster organization for the department

3. Have been involved otherwise in promoting the institution's athletics program

4. Have been a season ticket holder

5. Have provided benefits to student-athletes or their relatives or friends

 

[kemajic]

Better get more crappers for the NCAA. I turned on the Miami/Fl State basketball game on ESPNU. I started to read this thread. Coincidentally enough, ESPN announce team mention how frustrated the Miami Athletic Department is with the delay on their investigation. Apparently the NCAA told them, it is further delayed now, because of the actions internally within the NCAA itself.

Their investigation started before Montana's did. If this drags on much longer for all schools under investigation, I wonder what legal rights those schools can pursue. I thought I seen somewhere, investigations are to be wrapped up in a year from the time they start, then results shortly thereafter.

These investigations cannot continue on much longer without some sort of legal action against the NCAA. I feel Miami and Montana all are reasonable expecting results by the time Spring ball starts.

you can end you membership with the NCAA and go NAIA :thumb:

Since you have so much real life experience in the NAIA, you finally said something with some credibility.