My one cent worth

[PlayerRep]

I am not saying they are handling all of them in the old school way, or even inappropriately. (i don't know) I am saying that the way they have been handled leaves a lot of room for question. There will NEVER be time in any university that there will not be accusations of special treatment, cover-up etc regarding athletes. Small errors in sum have lead to a big problem.

Can you be more specific? What "leaves room for question"? It's been previously discussed that perhaps the taser guys should have be held out more than at quarter at the time, even though there was internal discipline, the possibility of the matter being re-evaluated when the facts/outcome were known, and the the matter ended with a nolo plea to disorderly conduct. Okay, what else?

What specific accusations of "special treatment" or "cover-up"? I would argue that athletes are now getting the reverse of special treatment.

The handling of the "rapes" is obviously a question. The university went so far as to higher independent investigation the results of which were either supposed to clear the University or give guidance for future incidents but instead blew up. The accusations of special treatment have been present on every campus including this one since nearly the beginning of time. I said Accusations not occurrences. This one started a while back but I would point at Hauck's f bomb reply to a specific question of special treatment by the Kaiman as the beginning of the latest go round. It doesn't take much to get myth really cooking. Keep in mind there are 300 athletes being served by millions of dollars of facilities, special tutors, rearraged test scheduled deadlines etc for travel, adored by the public, etc and 12,000 more students aren't. Most of these kids can't even get a ticket to a game if they were interested. maybe its envy maybe its not. but you can't tell me the U of M is the only school where there might be a bit of envy or jealousy between students and athletes deserved or not)

The questions of "special" treatment were poorly enough answered we have firing news papers article (world wide) CNN satellite trucks around Town and a Federal Investigation. I'm not the one you should be asking what brought this on. Suffice it to say lack of understanding the significance of TODAY'S transparency had SOMETHING to do with it.

As for the rape allegations against athletes, I'm not sure how the university could have handled them much better or differently. It looks to me that none of the accusations are going to go anywhere (and/or didn't occur), other than the one for which there was a charge. There can't be any complaint about the handling of that one. He was off the team and out of school almost immediately, after the matter became known. Respected independent investigator appointed.

Given the amount of revenue and positive attention athletes bring to the schools, and the amount of effort they put into their sports, those relatively minor accomodations don't look like much to me.

 

[tnt]

You may well be preaching to the choir PR. But you gotta admit (well you don't but you should) someone has the wrong idea..... Or we wouldn't be where we are. How do you suggest we put the toothpaste back in the tube???

My beef ( if I have one)is with the MPD (actually one cardcarrying member of the religous right officer who has been promoted way beyond where should have (including his predecessors and fellow church members. There are better ways to treat victims than they have. I have the phamphlet.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Not defending nor denigrating anyone, I believe that no matter what punishment is or is not meted out for a given offense, perceived or in fact, some people will like the way the situation was handled and some people will hate the way the situation was handled. That's only human nature. We could battle this topic for the next 100 years, and there would always be a minimum of two sides, more likely 10 or 20.

Agreed, '68. It's way easier to criticize other people's decisions about individual disciplinary matters than it is to have to make those decisions yourself. And it's way easier when you don't know any of the facts that enter into such decisions. I don't think it's all that fair to second-guess.

 

[tnt]

I am not saying they are handling all of them in the old school way, or even inappropriately. (i don't know) I am saying that the way they have been handled leaves a lot of room for question. There will NEVER be time in any university that there will not be accusations of special treatment, cover-up etc regarding athletes. Small errors in sum have lead to a big problem.

i think i hear what you're saying. it all falls back to people thinking that when workers do what they're expected to do they should get a special reward for it. most of us aren't concerned about people doing things the right way, because we expect that they will and they should. it's when they don't, or give the perception that they aren't, that it becomes a concern.

we expect firefighters to fight fires, but sometimes they go beyond the call of duty in a good way. that's when they get special recognition. we don't expect, nor do we want, u.m. administrators to walk star athletes to a high-powered lawyers office. that's when they become a concern. you do that and you open yourself up to be scrutinized in all kinds of ways. if you show favoritism to them that way, then people will wonder what other ways you're showing favoritism. it's just human nature.

You got it..... Thank you I have been trying to find the words

 

[getgrizzy]

I am not saying they are handling all of them in the old school way, or even inappropriately. (i don't know) I am saying that the way they have been handled leaves a lot of room for question. There will NEVER be time in any university that there will not be accusations of special treatment, cover-up etc regarding athletes. Small errors in sum have lead to a big problem.

Can you be more specific? What "leaves room for question"? It's been previously discussed that perhaps the taser guys should have be held out more than at quarter at the time, even though there was internal discipline, the possibility of the matter being re-evaluated when the facts/outcome were known, and the the matter ended with a nolo plea to disorderly conduct. Okay, what else?

What specific accusations of "special treatment" or "cover-up"? I would argue that athletes are now getting the reverse of special treatment.

The handling of the "rapes" is obviously a question. The university went so far as to higher independent investigation the results of which were either supposed to clear the University or give guidance for future incidents but instead blew up. The accusations of special treatment have been present on every campus including this one since nearly the beginning of time. I said Accusations not occurrences. This one started a while back but I would point at Hauck's f bomb reply to a specific question of special treatment by the Kaiman as the beginning of the latest go round. It doesn't take much to get myth really cooking. Keep in mind there are 300 athletes being served by millions of dollars of facilities, special tutors, rearraged test scheduled deadlines etc for travel, adored by the public, etc and 12,000 more students aren't. Most of these kids can't even get a ticket to a game if they were interested. maybe its envy maybe its not. but you can't tell me the U of M is the only school where there might be a bit of envy or jealousy between students and athletes deserved or not)

The questions of "special" treatment were poorly enough answered we have firing news papers article (world wide) CNN satellite trucks around Town and a Federal Investigation. I'm not the one you should be asking what brought this on. Suffice it to say lack of understanding the significance of TODAY'S transparency had SOMETHING to do with it.

As for the rape allegations against athletes, I'm not sure how the university could have handled them much better or differently. It looks to me that none of the accusations are going to go anywhere (and/or didn't occur), other than the one for which there was a charge. There can't be any complaint about the handling of that one. He was off the team and out of school almost immediately, after the matter became known. Respected independent investigator appointed.

Given the amount of revenue and positive attention athletes bring to the schools, and the amount of effort they put into their sports, those relatively minor accomodations don't look like much to me.

so let me get this straight. you think that since an accusation doesn't go anywhere that means the university couldn't have handled it better or differently? it did occur to you that the accusation may have been true, but since it wasn't handled properly it didn't go anywhere, didn't it?

 

[putter]

I just hope that the increased exposure has an effect on the females, the Missoula PD, and school. Why? Because approaching the school and or the police 2 weeks after the incident creates a he said/she said situation. If a woman is raped/sexually assualted I would hope they would seek appropriate counsel immediately to get medical attention or file a report. Not reporting this because of fear of no action/consequences is very sad.

 

[getgrizzy]

I just hope that the increased exposure has an effect on the females, the Missoula PD, and school. Why? Because approaching the school and or the police 2 weeks after the incident creates a he said/she said situation. If a woman is raped/sexually assualted I would hope they would seek appropriate counsel immediately to get medical attention or file a report. Not reporting this because of fear of no action/consequences is very sad.

you're absolutely right. early reporting is the key. its odd (sick actually) that a lot of the people who are defending the school and players aren't urging women to report their situation asap or offering any suggestions on how to make the situation go away or lessen it. instead they defend the school and point out how other towns are just as bad or worse.

 

[GrizLA]

:thumb: :clap:

I just hope that the increased exposure has an effect on the females, the Missoula PD, and school. Why? Because approaching the school and or the police 2 weeks after the incident creates a he said/she said situation. If a woman is raped/sexually assualted I would hope they would seek appropriate counsel immediately to get medical attention or file a report. Not reporting this because of fear of no action/consequences is very sad.

you're absolutely right. early reporting is the key. its odd (sick actually) that a lot of the people who are defending the school and players aren't urging women to report their situation asap or offering any suggestions on how to make the situation go away or lessen it. instead they defend the school and point out how other towns are just as bad or worse.

 

[tourist]

Born2BaGriz:

Excellent! :thumb:

 

[PlayerRep]

I just hope that the increased exposure has an effect on the females, the Missoula PD, and school. Why? Because approaching the school and or the police 2 weeks after the incident creates a he said/she said situation. If a woman is raped/sexually assualted I would hope they would seek appropriate counsel immediately to get medical attention or file a report. Not reporting this because of fear of no action/consequences is very sad.

you're absolutely right. early reporting is the key. its odd (sick actually) that a lot of the people who are defending the school and players aren't urging women to report their situation asap or offering any suggestions on how to make the situation go away or lessen it. instead they defend the school and point out how other towns are just as bad or worse.

Now that's pretty funny. I hope you don't think that women are coming to egriz to get their rape crisis advice? If you think advice ought to be offered to women regarding sexual advice, my advice would be not to come to egriz to get that information.

 

[PlayerRep]

Can you be more specific? What "leaves room for question"? It's been previously discussed that perhaps the taser guys should have be held out more than at quarter at the time, even though there was internal discipline, the possibility of the matter being re-evaluated when the facts/outcome were known, and the the matter ended with a nolo plea to disorderly conduct. Okay, what else?

What specific accusations of "special treatment" or "cover-up"? I would argue that athletes are now getting the reverse of special treatment.

The handling of the "rapes" is obviously a question. The university went so far as to higher independent investigation the results of which were either supposed to clear the University or give guidance for future incidents but instead blew up. The accusations of special treatment have been present on every campus including this one since nearly the beginning of time. I said Accusations not occurrences. This one started a while back but I would point at Hauck's f bomb reply to a specific question of special treatment by the Kaiman as the beginning of the latest go round. It doesn't take much to get myth really cooking. Keep in mind there are 300 athletes being served by millions of dollars of facilities, special tutors, rearraged test scheduled deadlines etc for travel, adored by the public, etc and 12,000 more students aren't. Most of these kids can't even get a ticket to a game if they were interested. maybe its envy maybe its not. but you can't tell me the U of M is the only school where there might be a bit of envy or jealousy between students and athletes deserved or not)

The questions of "special" treatment were poorly enough answered we have firing news papers article (world wide) CNN satellite trucks around Town and a Federal Investigation. I'm not the one you should be asking what brought this on. Suffice it to say lack of understanding the significance of TODAY'S transparency had SOMETHING to do with it.

As for the rape allegations against athletes, I'm not sure how the university could have handled them much better or differently. It looks to me that none of the accusations are going to go anywhere (and/or didn't occur), other than the one for which there was a charge. There can't be any complaint about the handling of that one. He was off the team and out of school almost immediately, after the matter became known. Respected independent investigator appointed.

Given the amount of revenue and positive attention athletes bring to the schools, and the amount of effort they put into their sports, those relatively minor accomodations don't look like much to me.

so let me get this straight. you think that since an accusation doesn't go anywhere that means the university couldn't have handled it better or differently? it did occur to you that the accusation may have been true, but since it wasn't handled properly it didn't go anywhere, didn't it?

There have been 4 accusations, according to the Missoulian, against athletes. Donaldson was off the team and out of school promptly after the university learned of it. The qb was temporarily suspended from practice while he had a temporary legal restraining order against him (which had been issued without notice to him or his or his attorneys involvement). The university action against him seems to have not gotten anywhere or very far, as he finished spring balls and I assume is still in school. Please don't try to suggest that the university and Engstrom is cutting him slack because he's a player, as that just plain isn't true. The university apparently started a university proceeding against some former players and a current player promptly upon receiving a complain from the Dec. 2010 incident. The coach internally disciplined these guys, even though he was informed that there wasn't sufficient evidence to bring any charges. Engstrom appointed an independent investigator to investigate the Dec. 2011 situation, as soon as the university learned of it. Nothing has come of this situation, to my knowledge, and my guess is that nothing will come of it. In fact, my guess is that there wasn't any involvement by players in the incident. Let's hear any specific complaints about how all of these handled.

 

[MooUBaby]

I am not saying they are handling all of them in the old school way, or even inappropriately. (i don't know) I am saying that the way they have been handled leaves a lot of room for question. There will NEVER be time in any university that there will not be accusations of special treatment, cover-up etc regarding athletes. Small errors in sum have lead to a big problem.

Can you be more specific? What "leaves room for question"? It's been previously discussed that perhaps the taser guys should have be held out more than at quarter at the time, even though there was internal discipline, the possibility of the matter being re-evaluated when the facts/outcome were known, and the the matter ended with a nolo plea to disorderly conduct. Okay, what else?

What specific accusations of "special treatment" or "cover-up"? I would argue that athletes are now getting the reverse of special treatment.

The handling of the "rapes" is obviously a question. The university went so far as to higher independent investigation the results of which were either supposed to clear the University or give guidance for future incidents but instead blew up. The accusations of special treatment have been present on every campus including this one since nearly the beginning of time. I said Accusations not occurrences. This one started a while back but I would point at Hauck's f bomb reply to a specific question of special treatment by the Kaiman as the beginning of the latest go round. It doesn't take much to get myth really cooking. Keep in mind there are 300 athletes being served by millions of dollars of facilities, special tutors, rearraged test scheduled deadlines etc for travel, adored by the public, etc and 12,000 more students aren't. Most of these kids can't even get a ticket to a game if they were interested. maybe its envy maybe its not. but you can't tell me the U of M is the only school where there might be a bit of envy or jealousy between students and athletes deserved or not)

The questions of "special" treatment were poorly enough answered we have firing news papers article (world wide) CNN satellite trucks around Town and a Federal Investigation. I'm not the one you should be asking what brought this on. Suffice it to say lack of understanding the significance of TODAY'S transparency had SOMETHING to do with it.

As for the rape allegations against athletes, I'm not sure how the university could have handled them much better or differently. It looks to me that none of the accusations are going to go anywhere (and/or didn't occur), other than the one for which there was a charge. There can't be any complaint about the handling of that one. He was off the team and out of school almost immediately, after the matter became known. Respected independent investigator appointed.

Given the amount of revenue and positive attention athletes bring to the schools, and the amount of effort they put into their sports, those relatively minor accomodations don't look like much to me.

I hope your not referring to Donaldson being off the team because he is currently suspended.Ooops

 

[PlayerRep]

Can you be more specific? What "leaves room for question"? It's been previously discussed that perhaps the taser guys should have be held out more than at quarter at the time, even though there was internal discipline, the possibility of the matter being re-evaluated when the facts/outcome were known, and the the matter ended with a nolo plea to disorderly conduct. Okay, what else?

What specific accusations of "special treatment" or "cover-up"? I would argue that athletes are now getting the reverse of special treatment.

The handling of the "rapes" is obviously a question. The university went so far as to higher independent investigation the results of which were either supposed to clear the University or give guidance for future incidents but instead blew up. The accusations of special treatment have been present on every campus including this one since nearly the beginning of time. I said Accusations not occurrences. This one started a while back but I would point at Hauck's f bomb reply to a specific question of special treatment by the Kaiman as the beginning of the latest go round. It doesn't take much to get myth really cooking. Keep in mind there are 300 athletes being served by millions of dollars of facilities, special tutors, rearraged test scheduled deadlines etc for travel, adored by the public, etc and 12,000 more students aren't. Most of these kids can't even get a ticket to a game if they were interested. maybe its envy maybe its not. but you can't tell me the U of M is the only school where there might be a bit of envy or jealousy between students and athletes deserved or not)

The questions of "special" treatment were poorly enough answered we have firing news papers article (world wide) CNN satellite trucks around Town and a Federal Investigation. I'm not the one you should be asking what brought this on. Suffice it to say lack of understanding the significance of TODAY'S transparency had SOMETHING to do with it.

As for the rape allegations against athletes, I'm not sure how the university could have handled them much better or differently. It looks to me that none of the accusations are going to go anywhere (and/or didn't occur), other than the one for which there was a charge. There can't be any complaint about the handling of that one. He was off the team and out of school almost immediately, after the matter became known. Respected independent investigator appointed.

Given the amount of revenue and positive attention athletes bring to the schools, and the amount of effort they put into their sports, those relatively minor accomodations don't look like much to me.

I hope your not referring to Donaldson being off the team because he is currently suspended.Ooops

When you are suspended and not in school, you are off the team. He is not on the 2012 roster. His number, 45, has been given to someone else. http://www.gogriz.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mont-m-footbl-mtt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, oops is right. You really blew that comment.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Now that's pretty funny. I hope you don't think that women are coming to egriz to get their rape crisis advice? If you think advice ought to be offered to women regarding sexual advice, my advice would be not to come to egriz to get that information.

What would you know about women?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[Umista]

Yes, I keep reading about UM football rape going on and off and on and on. We have beat this dead horse beyond belief and I along with you keep pounding this steel peg into a smaller metal hole over and over. No end in site.

Yes, we are all waiting for the 2012 football season to begin with our limp and somewhat battered team. Most of us are curious as to how the hell we will do without a permanent head coach and along with brand new offensive and defensive coaches.

I am a Griz and will stay a Griz and I know all of you will be at the games this fall, together all of us will root for our team win lose or draw. And of course we will fight, bitch, bicker and complain on e-griz after every game all season long.........Perhaps for ever and ever right or wrong!

 

[AZGrizFan]

The latest accusation was today on UM in a dorm. No football player involved. Sure glad we fired the AD and Football coach it sure as hell made UM safer. Thanks Royce! Maybe its time you accept some responsiblity yourself and step down Royce.

The reality is people like Gwen Florio think they are doing good by bringing attention to a serious issue. But when they stir everyone into a mob mentality and people get their lives destroyed like Jim Oday and Robin Pflugrad have they are also doing damage to our society. This was not justice is was Engstrom trying to appease the mob and keep himself out of harms way.

:roll:

The AD and football coach weren't fired to "make UM safer"--why is that so difficult for you to understand? And O'Day's and Pflugrads lives weren't "destroyed". Jesus Christ, I swear you are a 14-year-old girl the way you dramatize things.

 

[GRZFTBL]

Now that's pretty funny. I hope you don't think that women are coming to egriz to get their rape crisis advice? If you think advice ought to be offered to women regarding sexual advice, my advice would be not to come to egriz to get that information.

I see why you make the big bucks. :roll:

 

[George Ferguson]

i agree that the cycle of women not reporting soon enough/if at all because MPD and the university has fouled things up needs to stop. women need to kno that they are protected and have rights in these cases.

however, getgrizzy, your comment about "people defending the players" is way off base. ONLY ONE GRIZZLY FOOTBALL PLAYER has been arrested for any act of sexual assault and i have yet to see ONE SINGLE POSTER defend Beau Donaldson. so i'm not sure why you felt the need to make that comment. what are people supposed to do? assume and accuse and talk bad about all 99 rostered Griz players simply because there is a bad light on the university and the football program right now?

 

[getgrizzy]

I just hope that the increased exposure has an effect on the females, the Missoula PD, and school. Why? Because approaching the school and or the police 2 weeks after the incident creates a he said/she said situation. If a woman is raped/sexually assualted I would hope they would seek appropriate counsel immediately to get medical attention or file a report. Not reporting this because of fear of no action/consequences is very sad.

you're absolutely right. early reporting is the key. its odd (sick actually) that a lot of the people who are defending the school and players aren't urging women to report their situation asap or offering any suggestions on how to make the situation go away or lessen it. instead they defend the school and point out how other towns are just as bad or worse.

Now that's pretty funny. I hope you don't think that women are coming to egriz to get their rape crisis advice? If you think advice ought to be offered to women regarding sexual advice, my advice would be not to come to egriz to get that information.

where did i say they are coming to egriz or even mention egriz in my post? but even if i did, do you think all our readers are male? the only thing that could've been scrutinized about that post is that i said 'women' instead of 'people', because it pertains to men being raped as well. people may not come to egriz to get advice of any kind, but when the topic of rape is being discussed to the extent of this one, you'd hope that everyone would agree that we should point that out knowing that this board is open to anyone. i take it then that you disagree that it doesn't hurt to get the word out as much as possible and in as many ways as possible. yeah, it's "funny" alright.

 

[garizzalies]

you're absolutely right. early reporting is the key. its odd (sick actually) that a lot of the people who are defending the school and players aren't urging women to report their situation asap or offering any suggestions on how to make the situation go away or lessen it. instead they defend the school and point out how other towns are just as bad or worse.

Well, the civic leader is not setting a good example:


Van Valkenburg said in a later interview that other local prosecutors around the country have done far worse without triggering federal investigations.

Take death penalty cases where exculpatory evidence was not disclosed, he said. “Those are pretty egregious things where people can either end up dying or do die because of some deliberate effort to deny somebody their constitutional rights.

“And yet, as far as I know, the only thing they could even claim we’ve done is that we have not prosecuted a case,” he said. “That’s hardly the same thing as killing somebody.”



Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/local/civil-investigation-of-alleged-missoula-sex-assaults-a-first-for/article_08bc1274-97fd-11e1-bb57-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1uU5zqFiJ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;