MSU Men's Hoops Coach and Portal Stuff

[Griz til I die]

Shannon went 52-69 in 4 years only one T5 finish. Takes time to rebuild a program the last long term coach left in the dumps. In 2 years he already has a season with a better finish than any of hers(19-11/12-8). Context matters

And not one Big Sky tournament win, even with the new era of the Portal and transfers. Facts matter. The coach is off to a slow start.

In 19-20, the LG under Shannon were 17-13 and 12-8. So, it took the new coach 2 years to win 2 more games and have the same conference record. Wow, what great progress.

You do realize the portal was around when Shannon was coaching right? Not that she ever used it, but boy did her players use it.

And the next time you say Holsinger is off to a slow start I’ll remind you that he wasn’t exactly handed the keys to the Cadillac and he got the job at the end of the pandemic season. So ya I think he gets a pass for his first 2 seasons

 

[mthoopsfan]

And not one Big Sky tournament win, even with the new era of the Portal and transfers. Facts matter. The coach is off to a slow start.

In 19-20, the LG under Shannon were 17-13 and 12-8. So, it took the new coach 2 years to win 2 more games and have the same conference record. Wow, what great progress.

You do realize the portal was around when Shannon was coaching right? Not that she ever used it, but boy did her players use it.

And the next time you say Holsinger is off to a slow start I’ll remind you that he wasn’t exactly handed the keys to the Cadillac and he got the job at the end of the pandemic season. So ya I think he gets a pass for his first 2 seasons

You do realize that the no-sit one year rule came into effect in the fall of 2021, don't you? Shannon was not the coach then. The no-sit rule is the important part; not the Portal.

You can say what you want, but the fact is that Shannon's last season record and conf record was almost exactly the same of Holsinger's this season. Holsinger's conference record this year was exactly the same as Shannon's last year. 12-8. Zero improvement there. In two seasons, Holsinger has improved the overall record by 2 games. That's all.

In the prior season, Holsinger was 18-14 and 11-9. That's worse than Shannon's last year.

I will be happy to keep reminding you of this. If Holsinger doesn't have a much better season next year (and I assume he will), he should be moved on.

Your Holsinger cheerleader types are incredibly blind.

 

[Mousegriz]

Some of these Shannon lovers should go to a game.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Some of these Shannon lovers should go to a game.

I don't believe there are any Shannon lovers participating on egriz.

Again, the Holsinger lovers should admit that, so far in 2 seasons, he's had virtually the same results as Shannon's last season. Same conference record and first round loss in tourney. 2 more season wins. His first season record was worse than Shannon's last. And Holsinger couldn't keep a couple top players for their last season either.

 

[GrizWhiz]

hoops fan- just a direct question here....not trying to ignite an argument. Would you prefer to have Shannon back as head coach?

 

[mthoopsfan]

hoops fan- just a direct question here....not trying to ignite an argument. Would you prefer to have Shannon back as head coach?

Nope. And I was one of the first on egriz to suggest that she be moved on. I thought she should have been non-renewed the prior year. The next year I recall getting into it with Journal, because I thought he was pretending not to know anything about how bad things were with a number of the players and Shannon. I couldn't believe he didn't know that, as he seemed close to the program. I came to feel that maybe he really didn't know, what lots of people knew.

I am not trying to stick up for Shannon at all, but when posters try to excuse the lack of improved results by Holsinger by saying that he inherited a bad program/disaster, I am going to point out that Holsinger's results in his first 2 years have not shown any improvement from Shannon's last year. In fact, if you add together his 2 seasons and divide by 2, that result is less production than Shannon's last season. Personally, I don't think Shannon has been Holsinger's big problem, I think Holsinger has been his worst problem. He recruited poorly his season and has taken a good amount of time to get going. Also, his teams tend to fall apart in some games, and then he says it's bad coaching. I don't know if it is or isn't, but his teams do seem to fall apart too often (after playing well for several games).

A question for you. Do you think Holsinger has lived up to the initial hype/support he got when he came? I can believe he's going in the right direction (based mainly on what posters like you, whose opinions I respect are saying), but I'm surprised at how slow the progress has been. Actually, the lack of progress. Did you think he'd be going into his 3d season without a tournament win?

 

[GrizWhiz]

hoops fan- just a direct question here....not trying to ignite an argument. Would you prefer to have Shannon back as head coach?

Nope. And I was one of the first on egriz to suggest that she be moved on. I thought she should have been non-renewed the prior year. The next year I recall getting into it with Journal, because I thought he was pretending not to know anything about how bad things were with a number of the players and Shannon. I couldn't believe he didn't know that, as he seemed close to the program. I came to feel that maybe he really didn't know, what lots of people knew.

I am not trying to stick up for Shannon at all, but when posters try to excuse the lack of improved results by Holsinger by saying that he inherited a bad program/disaster, I am going to point out that Holsinger's results in his first 2 years have not shown any improvement from Shannon's last year. In fact, if you add together his 2 seasons and divide by 2, that result is less production than Shannon's last season. Personally, I don't think Shannon has been Holsinger's big problem, I think Holsinger has been his worst problem. He recruited poorly his season and has taken a good amount of time to get going. Also, his teams tend to fall apart in some games, and then he says it's bad coaching. I don't know if it is or isn't, but his teams do seem to fall apart too often (after playing well for several games).

A question for you. Do you think Holsinger has lived up to the initial hype/support he got when he came? I can believe he's going in the right direction (based mainly on what posters like you, whose opinions I respect are saying), but I'm surprised at how slow the progress has been. Actually, the lack of progress. Did you think he'd be going into his 3d season without a tournament win?

Holsinger, by all accounts, has good rapport with his players and has earned and maintains their respect. I think this attribute is essential for a head coach. Schweyn, on the the other hand was absolutely terrible in this regard and was destined to continue failing as a head coach. One good example of the difference between the two is Sammy Fatkin.. Simply put, Schweyn drove her off and Holsinger was able to get her to return. I too wish there had been more winning in Holsinger's first two seasons. Given his remarkable success in recruiting and his strength in the people skills department, I think the team will be increasingly successful in the immediate future. I am satisfied with him thus far. I had basically given up on the Lady Griz by the end of Schweyn's Reign of Terror.

 

[maroonandsilver]

Nope. And I was one of the first on egriz to suggest that she be moved on. I thought she should have been non-renewed the prior year. The next year I recall getting into it with Journal, because I thought he was pretending not to know anything about how bad things were with a number of the players and Shannon. I couldn't believe he didn't know that, as he seemed close to the program. I came to feel that maybe he really didn't know, what lots of people knew.

I am not trying to stick up for Shannon at all, but when posters try to excuse the lack of improved results by Holsinger by saying that he inherited a bad program/disaster, I am going to point out that Holsinger's results in his first 2 years have not shown any improvement from Shannon's last year. In fact, if you add together his 2 seasons and divide by 2, that result is less production than Shannon's last season. Personally, I don't think Shannon has been Holsinger's big problem, I think Holsinger has been his worst problem. He recruited poorly his season and has taken a good amount of time to get going. Also, his teams tend to fall apart in some games, and then he says it's bad coaching. I don't know if it is or isn't, but his teams do seem to fall apart too often (after playing well for several games).

A question for you. Do you think Holsinger has lived up to the initial hype/support he got when he came? I can believe he's going in the right direction (based mainly on what posters like you, whose opinions I respect are saying), but I'm surprised at how slow the progress has been. Actually, the lack of progress. Did you think he'd be going into his 3d season without a tournament win?

Holsinger, by all accounts, has good rapport with his players and has earned and maintains their respect. I think this attribute is essential for a head coach. Schweyn, on the the other hand was absolutely terrible in this regard and was destined to continue failing as a head coach. One good example of the difference between the two is Sammy Fatkin.. Simply put, Schweyn drove her off and Holsinger was able to get her to return. I too wish there had been more winning in Holsinger's first two seasons. Given his remarkable success in recruiting and his strength in the people skills department, I think the team will be increasingly successful in the immediate future. I am satisfied with him thus far. I had basically given up on the Lady Griz by the end of Schweyn's Reign of Terror.

Yes!!!

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Holsinger, by all accounts, has good rapport with his players and has earned and maintains their respect. I think this attribute is essential for a head coach. Schweyn, on the the other hand was absolutely terrible in this regard and was destined to continue failing as a head coach. One good example of the difference between the two is Sammy Fatkin.. Simply put, Schweyn drove her off and Holsinger was able to get her to return. I too wish there had been more winning in Holsinger's first two seasons. Given his remarkable success in recruiting and his strength in the people skills department, I think the team will be increasingly successful in the immediate future. I am satisfied with him thus far. I had basically given up on the Lady Griz by the end of Schweyn's Reign of Terror.

Yes!!!

I also support the GrizWBB assesment by GrizWhiz... :thumb:
And would add: I personally think Sammy Fatkin has visible coaching talents (though I don't know her and haven't ever spoken with her). Her on-floor steady encouragement of the younger players this past season was very visible & it seemed to me they respected her. Would love to see Sammy join the team as a grad assistant.

 

[TrueGriz]

Shannon was a better coach than Holsinger but Holsinger was a better player manager which a head coach needs to be. The players liked playing for them. Shannon was certainly not good at managing the players.
My opinion of Holsinger is he is a good recruiter. Took over the team and must have decided to start all over and let 6 players go by zoom call, but he did watch a lot of video and talked to the assistant coaches before he did let them go, per Missoulian or gogriz.com article. I figured then it was going to be long slow process of getting the Lady Griz back to where they need to be and next season is the most important.
One problem I see is I think he has a problem getting the players to play defense. They did pretty well his first year but the offense wasn't that great. His second year offense was the best since the 2007-8 season when with respect to average points per game.
This past season was the first time the team averaged over 70 points in a season since 2007-8. Selvig's last year coaching and Shannon's last year coaching came very close. IMO, Shannon's last team had enough talent to get to the semi-final or championship game but failed.
The defense last year wasn't very good. Much of it could be playing freshman players to many minutes. I am nearly 100% positive that Mack Konig would not have been getting close to the amount minutes per game if Robin Selvig was coach. I think players like to play offense better than defense and I think that had something to do with the bad defense this year and Holsinger didn't have a clue how to fix it. I think he will have to figure it out next year. I do expect a better team next year.

Holsinger wasn't the most experienced head coach coming to Montana. But, hopefully, superior talent will overcome that until he improves as a head coach and I think he will over time. At least I hope he does. He has next year to show it.

 

[Mousegriz]

Some of these Shannon lovers should go to a game.

I don't believe there are any Shannon lovers participating on egriz.

Again, the Holsinger lovers should admit that, so far in 2 seasons, he's had virtually the same results as Shannon's last season. Same conference record and first round loss in tourney. 2 more season wins. His first season record was worse than Shannon's last. And Holsinger couldn't keep a couple top players for their last season either.

That's right. It was Shannon's daughters you defended as D1 players and leered at. Shannon too old for your types.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Nope. And I was one of the first on egriz to suggest that she be moved on. I thought she should have been non-renewed the prior year. The next year I recall getting into it with Journal, because I thought he was pretending not to know anything about how bad things were with a number of the players and Shannon. I couldn't believe he didn't know that, as he seemed close to the program. I came to feel that maybe he really didn't know, what lots of people knew.

I am not trying to stick up for Shannon at all, but when posters try to excuse the lack of improved results by Holsinger by saying that he inherited a bad program/disaster, I am going to point out that Holsinger's results in his first 2 years have not shown any improvement from Shannon's last year. In fact, if you add together his 2 seasons and divide by 2, that result is less production than Shannon's last season. Personally, I don't think Shannon has been Holsinger's big problem, I think Holsinger has been his worst problem. He recruited poorly his season and has taken a good amount of time to get going. Also, his teams tend to fall apart in some games, and then he says it's bad coaching. I don't know if it is or isn't, but his teams do seem to fall apart too often (after playing well for several games).

A question for you. Do you think Holsinger has lived up to the initial hype/support he got when he came? I can believe he's going in the right direction (based mainly on what posters like you, whose opinions I respect are saying), but I'm surprised at how slow the progress has been. Actually, the lack of progress. Did you think he'd be going into his 3d season without a tournament win?

Holsinger, by all accounts, has good rapport with his players and has earned and maintains their respect. I think this attribute is essential for a head coach. Schweyn, on the the other hand was absolutely terrible in this regard and was destined to continue failing as a head coach. One good example of the difference between the two is Sammy Fatkin.. Simply put, Schweyn drove her off and Holsinger was able to get her to return. I too wish there had been more winning in Holsinger's first two seasons. Given his remarkable success in recruiting and his strength in the people skills department, I think the team will be increasingly successful in the immediate future. I am satisfied with him thus far. I had basically given up on the Lady Griz by the end of Schweyn's Reign of Terror.

While I have read that most players like Holsinger, it is not true that "all accounts" feel that way, from what I've heard. Also, I know people who don't like Holsinger and believe he is a bit arrogant. His recruiting his first year was pretty bad. Yes, on getting Fatkin back. Don't know the details there. The other 3 weren't great and they did absolutely nothing last season (and 1 had already left). He did better the next year, and it looks like he may have done better for next year.

He was way over-hyped by many on egriz, in my view. Not winning a conference tournament game yet is almost inexcusable, in my view.

And where were all the Holsinger cheerleaders when some of us were saying that SS didn't have the player skills (and many were grumbling and some were leaving), the people skills, or the coaching skills to be successful? I suppose some were cheerleading for her, because cheerleading is what they are good at. While SS had and has lots of friends and supporters, there were also many former players and some former coaches who didn't agree and didn't think she was the right choice for the program.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I don't believe there are any Shannon lovers participating on egriz.

Again, the Holsinger lovers should admit that, so far in 2 seasons, he's had virtually the same results as Shannon's last season. Same conference record and first round loss in tourney. 2 more season wins. His first season record was worse than Shannon's last. And Holsinger couldn't keep a couple top players for their last season either.

That's right. It was Shannon's daughters you defended as D1 players and leered at. Shannon too old for your types.

I wasn't defending SS's daughters as players. I was opposed to the new coach firing 6 schollie players including some MT players, without either giving them any chance or even talking to or meeting them first. In fact, I said H didn't have the balls to cut SS's daughters. I was wrong on that one. You either have a real bad memory or you are just dishonest. Probably both.

Some of the players H cut or chased off were better players than some of lunch meat H brought in. And, again, your man H has zero wins at the conference tourney and had the exact same conference record last season as SS had her last year.

 

[GrizWhiz]

That's right. It was Shannon's daughters you defended as D1 players and leered at. Shannon too old for your types.

I wasn't defending SS's daughters as players. I was opposed to the new coach firing 6 schollie players including some MT players, without either giving them any chance or even talking to or meeting them first. In fact, I said H didn't have the balls to cut SS's daughters. I was wrong on that one. You either have a real bad memory or you are just dishonest. Probably both.

Some of the players H cut or chased off were better players than some of lunch meat H brought in. And, again, your man H has zero wins at the conference tourney and had the exact same conference record last season as SS had her last year.

Calling Lady Griz players "lunch meat" is pretty low don't you think?

 

[mthoopsfan]

I wasn't defending SS's daughters as players. I was opposed to the new coach firing 6 schollie players including some MT players, without either giving them any chance or even talking to or meeting them first. In fact, I said H didn't have the balls to cut SS's daughters. I was wrong on that one. You either have a real bad memory or you are just dishonest. Probably both.

Some of the players H cut or chased off were better players than some of lunch meat H brought in. And, again, your man H has zero wins at the conference tourney and had the exact same conference record last season as SS had her last year.

Calling Lady Griz players "lunch meat" is pretty low don't you think?

Pretty low is cutting 6 scholarship players via zoom, without properly evaluating them or giving them a chance.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Quite honestly hoops isn't impartial when it comes to Holsinger. He is still butt hurt over the players cut from the program and was a big Petrino guy. He will never be a Holsinger guy, so zero reason to sucked into his gripe.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Quite honestly hoops isn't impartial when it comes to Holsinger. He is still butt hurt over the players cut from the program and was a big Petrino guy. He will never be a Holsinger guy, so zero reason to sucked into his gripe.

Actually, I am one of the few objective posters on Holsinger. Are you one who thinks 12-8 in conference and a tourney loss is better than 12-8 and a tourney loss?

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Quite honestly hoops isn't impartial when it comes to Holsinger. He is still butt hurt over the players cut from the program and was a big Petrino guy. He will never be a Holsinger guy, so zero reason to sucked into his gripe.

Actually, I am one of the few objective posters on Holsinger.

Yeah, you're not. You are the polar opposite guy that wants people to believe different. You have some personal skin in the game, I get it, just stop trying to make people think you are completely objective.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Actually, I am one of the few objective posters on Holsinger.

Yeah, you're not. You are the polar opposite guy that wants people to believe different. You have some personal skin in the game, I get it, just stop trying to make people think you are completely objective.

I am not trying to make people believe anything, but I am way more objective than the H cheerleaders. I can see that H recruited poorly his first year, that H has the same conference record this past year as SS did her last year, that H hasn't won any conference tourney games. And I know from people who know him telling me, that they think he is a bit arrogant. And he is the one who keeps being quoted about how he needs to coach better (when the LG have crappy games). I can be objective because I have no skin in the game.

 

[thirdandlong]

Yeah, you're not. You are the polar opposite guy that wants people to believe different. You have some personal skin in the game, I get it, just stop trying to make people think you are completely objective.

I am not trying to make people believe anything, but I am way more objective than the H cheerleaders. I can see that H recruited poorly his first year, that H has the same conference record this past year as SS did her last year, that H hasn't won any conference tourney games. And I know from people who know him telling me, that they think he is a bit arrogant. And he is the one who keeps being quoted about how he needs to coach better (when the LG have crappy games). I can be objective because I have no skin in the game.

Are you still harping on this subject? Give a rest already. Jeeeeez!