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MSU Financial Situation - Athletics

Curious Observer - I think an educational bubble is going to burst around the entire country, not just in Bozeman or Missoula. I think that demand for marketable technical skills is only going to increase during that period, severely damaging UM's entire "liberal arts" based education. UM has its technical programs like pharmacy and business but the age of theater arts and anthropology won't weather the coming storm.

Actually, MSU is in a far greater position to survive that storm because it produces graduates who can stand alone without pursuing post-graduate degrees. Most graduates have marketable, real-world skills that actually create instead of just contribute to a theater-goers Saturday night. Declining enrollment at UM suggests as much because when you are saddled with undergraduate debt without any real way to repay it, the cost/benefit of that particular college degree is not worth it.
 
Jerry Punch said:
Curious Observer - I think an educational bubble is going to burst around the entire country, not just in Bozeman or Missoula. I think that demand for marketable technical skills is only going to increase during that period, severely damaging UM's entire "liberal arts" based education. UM has its technical programs like pharmacy and business but the age of theater arts and anthropology won't weather the coming storm.

Actually, MSU is in a far greater position to survive that storm because it produces graduates who can stand alone without pursuing post-graduate degrees. Most graduates have marketable, real-world skills that actually create instead of just contribute to a theater-goers Saturday night. Declining enrollment at UM suggests as much because when you are saddled with undergraduate debt without any real way to repay it, the cost/benefit of that particular college degree is not worth it.
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This pretty much confirms that.

http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2012" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
curiousobserver said:
Belt-tightening is not something most in academia are used to (or think they should be subjected to) but they had better start getting used to it because it’s only going to become more necessary.
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Great info, and great post observer. I just have a problem with the above sentence, as someone in academia belt-tightening is the norm, especially at the University of Montana, if you are lucky enough to get funded then you are never fully funded. You absolutely have to bring in outside funding to do any research and the pay for professors and grad students is some of the lowest in the country. From what I hear it's similar at MSU. You won't get rich in academia in MT, and you have to be good at scrounging up what you need.
 
c observer - the only thing you didn't mention that belongs in your analysis is that MSU has recently raised $1.3M to pay for a freshly minted state-of-the-art weight room facility. I'm sure you can spin that into more dire news on the inescapable implosion soon to hit MSU because of the terrible financial situation.
 
Jerry Punch said:
Curious Observer - I think an educational bubble is going to burst around the entire country, not just in Bozeman or Missoula. I think that demand for marketable technical skills is only going to increase during that period, severely damaging UM's entire "liberal arts" based education. UM has its technical programs like pharmacy and business but the age of theater arts and anthropology won't weather the coming storm.

Actually, MSU is in a far greater position to survive that storm because it produces graduates who can stand alone without pursuing post-graduate degrees. Most graduates have marketable, real-world skills that actually create instead of just contribute to a theater-goers Saturday night. Declining enrollment at UM suggests as much because when you are saddled with undergraduate debt without any real way to repay it, the cost/benefit of that particular college degree is not worth it.
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You really don't know much about UM if you fail to mention the strong programs in the biological sciences, biochemistry, chemistry, physics, math and forestry. UM does as well as any institution in the country in undergraduate preparation in these disciplines; their graduates are positioned well to compete in the best graduate schools. True, engineering undergraduates can get jobs without grad. degrees, but more and more as the world gets smaller, they must compete with advanced degree holders. A significant percentage of ag graduates wind up back on the farm, smarter farmers and ranchers, but I'm not so sure their job really changed nor that that will have much impact on how MSU "weathers the storm."

What UM does really poorly is marketing their product. Their efforts at recruiting are dismal and their graduate program's ability to attract grant funding have underperformed. There is an arrogance of entitlement; we are Montana and you will come.... This is the no. 1 thing that needs to change as UM confronts the "storm."
 
Outsider, based on your link

http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2012" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We should close down engineering at MSU and consolidate it at Montana Tech which is a branch of the University of Montana.
 
For in-state students, MSU is actually #366 and UM #811. As far as out-of-state, MSU is #423 and UM #919.
 
Montana Tech is 282 for in state and is 314 for out of state so it sure seems the better choice would be Tech especially if engineering is being studied and your big concern is roi.
 
Great post, CuriousO. One of the better reasoned and explained posts on this subject I've read.

And the entire, "UM students can't get jobs" argument is a joke, and cat fans know it. Yes, engineering students can make big bucks, especially now. But my starting salary out of UM (adjusted for inflation) exceeded today's average engineer's pay. And I'm far from alone. Look, if you major in French Literature at UM or Global/Multicultural Studies at MSU (yes, it's a real degree program there), you're probably going to struggle to find a great paying job. But college isn't (and was never designed to be) about job placement.

And finally, I'll simply add one other point. While Waded is viewed by many (including all on bcn) as a hero, she has real and legitimate issues on campus. Budgets -- and how she allocates resources -- is one of the reasons she's respected off-campus, but not on.
 
If I wanted a CNN view on a subject. I wouldn't try and find it on FOX.


It wouldn't be much for debate, but I think both schools, athletics included, aren't as good as the fans think or as bad as the rivals think.
 
Blgs Griz Fan said:
Outsider, based on your link

http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2012" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We should close down engineering at MSU and consolidate it at Montana Tech which is a branch of the University of Montana.
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But the sad thing is if we based every thing on these statistics, they would probably close U of M so there wouldn't be anything there to consolodate with.
 
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