Mover-Ups Doing Well

[AZGrizFan]

So I am gathering from you guys that playing at the top level of college football is truly the only thing that matters. If this is the case, playing in the Sun Belt or MWC is far from that. Honestly, if that is your criteria, cheer for Alabama or Oregon. I can guarantee that the big 10, big 12, pac 12 and sec view those mid major conferences as weak. So, you move up and still aren't much of a thought. I bet that most people around the country don't even realize the Georgia southern is now FBS, nor do they care. Honestly, why should they? If you are looking for respect around the nation and football at these lower levels is just second class or interior to you, then why do they play? They play because it means something to the people who live there. Who cares what these in the South feel about the Griz? They are special because they matter to us and will remain that to me whatever level they play.

Actually, I'm just tired of us playing these directional schools and I'd like to see them take a step up to the REAL regional rivalries like CSU, USU, Wyoming, Boise, Air Force, etc. THOSE are the teams I'd like to see coming into Wa/Griz. Not NAU, Weber, UND, etc. I couldn't care less what other people (or other conferences) think.

 

[Blue Tears]

We obviously gave the ability to compete well in FCS, so nobody is talking about moving down. The resources are there to be a top notch FCS program. The sentiment that those resources are there to be great in FBS is a matter of heavy debate. Montana is a wonderful place to live, but elite recruits are rarely going to choose us over these established schools that reside in bigger areas. It would be an uphill battle. We would need to win recruiting battles vs big dogs in their prime areas. My previous point is that if you view the Big Sky as inferior, the Sun Belt isn't exactly a beacon for respect either. A slight step up in national respect for a possible step down in success. I would like the Griz to be at the pinnacle of college football and beat Notre Dame and TCU with regularity too, but it just isn't realistic. We are better off staying put and looking to win more National Championships. Like I mentioned earlier, if you care about national prestige so much, latch onto Alabama or Oregon. They have the resources to deliver what you want. Heck, even Vanderbilt plays the big boys. I am sure they would like to pick up some more fan interest.

 

[Blue Tears]

Regional rivalries are great, but we have some now in MSU and a Eastern. As much as it drives me crazy, we haven't been able to knock off the eagles much recently. I really don't think Air Force and CsU would consider us more of a rival than teams they already play. We would need to be competitive first to gain respect and even call it a rivalry. I respect you guys and your ambition to rock FBS, I just think it is a potentially dangerous move that could leave us a bottom feeder. We obviously have vastly different opinions. Like one of you said, who knows how things would turn out. It is fun to debate though. One thing is for sure, no one can question any of our passion's for Griz football.

 

[NorthwestFresh]

So I am gathering from you guys that playing at the top level of college football is truly the only thing that matters. If this is the case, playing in the Sun Belt or MWC is far from that. Honestly, if that is your criteria, cheer for Alabama or Oregon. I can guarantee that the big 10, big 12, pac 12 and sec view those mid major conferences as weak. So, you move up and still aren't much of a thought. I bet that most people around the country don't even realize the Georgia southern is now FBS, nor do they care. Honestly, why should they? If you are looking for respect around the nation and football at these lower levels is just second class or interior to you, then why do they play? They play because it means something to the people who live there. Who cares what these in the South feel about the Griz? They are special because they matter to us and will remain that to me whatever level they play.

Actually, I'm just tired of us playing these directional schools and I'd like to see them take a step up to the REAL regional rivalries like CSU, USU, Wyoming, Boise, Air Force, etc. THOSE are the teams I'd like to see coming into Wa/Griz. Not NAU, Weber, UND, etc. I couldn't care less what other people (or other conferences) think.

There is literally no reason for the MWC to expand into Montana. The Griz would be diluting the money available on their current TV contract. Speaking of dilution, more teams moving up means the lower-tier of FBS gets worse as recruits who were solid at the FCS level get their asses handed to them by FBS programs with more elite recruits.

By all means, though, if playing for the chance for a bowl game in Boise or Shreveport in December is alluring, I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and figure out ways to not only convince the MWC into bringing in a state that brings nothing to the TV contract, but to also fund 22 extra scholarships for football (which can't be split, and are typically guaranteed now for 4-5 years at the FBS level) for football, along with an extra 22 scholarships on the women's side (which can be split). Odds are that the MWC would rather accept the large metro areas of a Portland State or a Sacramento State over a tiny town like Missoula, so that leaves the Sun Belt, who seems to change teams more often than I change my socks.

Get busy figuring out how to pay for your dreams, or stop whining.

 

[AZGrizFan]

So I am gathering from you guys that playing at the top level of college football is truly the only thing that matters. If this is the case, playing in the Sun Belt or MWC is far from that. Honestly, if that is your criteria, cheer for Alabama or Oregon. I can guarantee that the big 10, big 12, pac 12 and sec view those mid major conferences as weak. So, you move up and still aren't much of a thought. I bet that most people around the country don't even realize the Georgia southern is now FBS, nor do they care. Honestly, why should they? If you are looking for respect around the nation and football at these lower levels is just second class or interior to you, then why do they play? They play because it means something to the people who live there. Who cares what these in the South feel about the Griz? They are special because they matter to us and will remain that to me whatever level they play.

Actually, I'm just tired of us playing these directional schools and I'd like to see them take a step up to the REAL regional rivalries like CSU, USU, Wyoming, Boise, Air Force, etc. THOSE are the teams I'd like to see coming into Wa/Griz. Not NAU, Weber, UND, etc. I couldn't care less what other people (or other conferences) think.

There is literally no reason for the MWC to expand into Montana. The Griz would be diluting the money available on their current TV contract. Speaking of dilution, more teams moving up means the lower-tier of FBS gets worse as recruits who were solid at the FCS level get their asses handed to them by FBS programs with more elite recruits.

By all means, though, if playing for the chance for a bowl game in Boise or Shreveport in December is alluring, I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and figure out ways to not only convince the MWC into bringing in a state that brings nothing to the TV contract, but to also fund 22 extra scholarships for football (which can't be split, and are typically guaranteed now for 4-5 years at the FBS level) for football, along with an extra 22 scholarships on the women's side (which can be split). Odds are that the MWC would rather accept the large metro areas of a Portland State or a Sacramento State over a tiny town like Missoula, so that leaves the Sun Belt, who seems to change teams more often than I change my socks.

Get busy figuring out how to pay for your dreams, or stop whining.

Read the whole thread before you post crap like this. It's been made perfectly clear that this thread isn't about the $$, it's about the vision, the mindset and the DESIRE to move up. NONE of which currently exist in the Montana administration. So, it would not surprise me to learn that NO ONE in the administration is busy trying to figure out how to pay for it even if it COULD be done financially. If they wanted to pay ME to do it, I'd be happy to assist.

And I literally laughed out loud at the Portland State & Sac State "metro" area comment...all one with half a brain needs to do is look at their stadiums and attendance to know they're NEVER going anywhere. We've laughed multiple times at Foolerton's folly for adding giant "metro" areas like these where not a single living, breathing soul gives two shits about the D-III school that plays down the street. Your examples have to battle Oregon & Oregon State, and Cal, Stanford, etc. for fandom and dollars and exposure. Montana would have to battle.....NO ONE.

 

[NorthwestFresh]

So I am gathering from you guys that playing at the top level of college football is truly the only thing that matters. If this is the case, playing in the Sun Belt or MWC is far from that. Honestly, if that is your criteria, cheer for Alabama or Oregon. I can guarantee that the big 10, big 12, pac 12 and sec view those mid major conferences as weak. So, you move up and still aren't much of a thought. I bet that most people around the country don't even realize the Georgia southern is now FBS, nor do they care. Honestly, why should they? If you are looking for respect around the nation and football at these lower levels is just second class or interior to you, then why do they play? They play because it means something to the people who live there. Who cares what these in the South feel about the Griz? They are special because they matter to us and will remain that to me whatever level they play.

Actually, I'm just tired of us playing these directional schools and I'd like to see them take a step up to the REAL regional rivalries like CSU, USU, Wyoming, Boise, Air Force, etc. THOSE are the teams I'd like to see coming into Wa/Griz. Not NAU, Weber, UND, etc. I couldn't care less what other people (or other conferences) think.

There is literally no reason for the MWC to expand into Montana. The Griz would be diluting the money available on their current TV contract. Speaking of dilution, more teams moving up means the lower-tier of FBS gets worse as recruits who were solid at the FCS level get their asses handed to them by FBS programs with more elite recruits.

By all means, though, if playing for the chance for a bowl game in Boise or Shreveport in December is alluring, I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and figure out ways to not only convince the MWC into bringing in a state that brings nothing to the TV contract, but to also fund 22 extra scholarships for football (which can't be split, and are typically guaranteed now for 4-5 years at the FBS level) for football, along with an extra 22 scholarships on the women's side (which can be split). Odds are that the MWC would rather accept the large metro areas of a Portland State or a Sacramento State over a tiny town like Missoula, so that leaves the Sun Belt, who seems to change teams more often than I change my socks.

Get busy figuring out how to pay for your dreams, or stop whining.

Read the whole thread before you post crap like this. It's been made perfectly clear that this thread isn't about the $$, it's about the vision, the mindset and the DESIRE to move up. NONE of which currently exist in the Montana administration. So, it would not surprise me to learn that NO ONE in the administration is busy trying to figure out how to pay for it even if it COULD be done financially. If they wanted to pay ME to do it, I'd be happy to assist.

And I literally laughed out loud at the Portland State & Sac State "metro" area comment...all one with half a brain needs to do is look at their stadiums and attendance to know they're NEVER going anywhere. We've laughed multiple times at Foolerton's folly for adding giant "metro" areas like these where not a single living, breathing soul gives two shits about the D-III school that plays down the street. Your examples have to battle Oregon & Oregon State, and Cal, Stanford, etc. for fandom and dollars and exposure. Montana would have to battle.....NO ONE.

PSU has a stadium that can fit 25k for football, and it's located in the heart of a metro area of over 2.3 million people within a 50-mile radius. That stadium isn't a joke. Perhaps you should visit it sometime.

Montana would have to battle MSU, first of all, because they are a package deal. Secondly, with UM enrollment falling faster than Al Golden's reputation as a coach, is investing millions of dollars just to get average FBS facilities really a priority? An indoor practice facility would be a must, at the very least.

As for "metro" areas, it's much more important to have FBS schools in large metropolitan areas than FCS schools. That's obvious, isn't it? The MWC would much prefer the Portland and Sacramento markets than they would Missoula, MT, as would advertisers paying the carrier of MWC league games.

So again, come up with a plan to move up, make a case for MWC that isn't based on delusional thoughts of Missoula's importance to people in Boise, Fresno, San Diego, and Las Vegas, and make a go of it.

 

[EverettGriz]

AZ, I wouldn't be so certain that the UM Administration is dead-set against a move to FBS, or that planning isn't in the works should that become a reality. All realize that currently there really isn't an option. Much like the WAC a few years ago, UM will kindly say, "thanks, no" to the SunBelt. But if the MWC comes calling, I can assure you there is a plan in place to at least CONSIDER saying "yes". Will it happen? Too many unknown variables to be certain. But Kent and Engstrom are not opposed to moving up if it betters the University of Montana. And considerations are in place to do that given the right offer.

 

[NavyBlue]

Those of you that like to make fun of FBS and bowl games, you can do that all you want. I sure as HELL would not trade my school's MWC membership for a FCS National Championship. I have seen what it has done for us in just three short years. Donations or up, fan and alumni interest is up, we have been building facilities like never before. Getting an invitation to the MWC is one of the best things ever to happen to USU. I don't see why it wouldn't be just as good for UM. If I were in the administration at UM I would be working night and day to make it happen, but that's just me. If you are on the fence on this issue, just look at what it has done for USU, a school with more built in disadvantages than UM has.

 

[Blue Tears]

I am glad MWC has worked for USU. I actually cheer for you guys and enjoyed the heck out of your win over Boise State. I wouldn't change if I were you either. Your situation is entirely different than the one in Missoula though. It is hard to compare. I really doubt we would get more people at our games if we moved up, simply because Montana is somewhat limited population wise. We get a tremendous percentage of our population that attends games already. In Montana, Griz football is currently a BIG Deal. We don't need to move up to make it the best draw in the state, it already is. Your situation works for you, and that is great. The Mountain West is a good league (certainly not the pinnacle of FBS), but a solid conference. Getting to play the Aggies, and Rams etc would be cool, I wouldn't disagree. I just think it could be a dangerous move if our program was unable to compete financially and as a consequence, our results on the field suffered. Good luck the rest of the way.

 

[EverettGriz]

I really doubt we would get more people at our games if we moved up, simply because Montana is somewhat limited population wise.

Certainly a correct statement. But also rather meaningless. UM already out-draws many MWC schools, and we don't have additional seats to put butts in anyway. That said, if UM expanded to, say 32,000 seats, I could see them sold out for most games at the FBS level.

The key is, though, there are other revenue sources at that level. And just think what a move to the MWC would do to the BB programs. Suddenly you don't have to worry about going 29-3 but losing the title game and not going to the NCAA tournament, simply because your SOS is so terrible because half the teams in the bsc have RPIs in the 300s. It would also lead to better noncon games, higher NCAA tournament seeding, more television games which means better recruiting.

I just cannot see how it wouldn't benefit UM to go if the opportunity provides itself. And I think they will.

 

[Blue Tears]

I would agree that basketball could potentially benefit more than football. With that said, you got to like the direction the basketball programs are currently going. The men's coaching staff are piling up some great recruits. I am excited to watch both the Lady Griz and Griz Hoops teams this year.

 

[EverettGriz]

I would agree that basketball could potentially benefit more than football. With that said, you got to like the direction the basketball programs are currently going. The men's coaching staff are piling up some great recruits. I am excited to watch both the Lady Griz and Griz Hoops teams this year.

On THIS we agree, Blue! TDC is doing some ridiculous recruiting! :thumb:

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Those of you that like to make fun of FBS and bowl games, you can do that all you want. I sure as HELL would not trade my school's MWC membership for a FCS National Championship. I have seen what it has done for us in just three short years. Donations or up, fan and alumni interest is up, we have been building facilities like never before. Getting an invitation to the MWC is one of the best things ever to happen to USU. I don't see why it wouldn't be just as good for UM. If I were in the administration at UM I would be working night and day to make it happen, but that's just me. If you are on the fence on this issue, just look at what it has done for USU, a school with more built in disadvantages than UM has.

You can look to Utah too as an argument to moving up in competition level. The Utes struggled for the first few years of Pac-12 membership but look at them now. The football program is recruiting nationally now and they are doing more than just competing.....

 

[Blue Tears]

Utah was already FBS and doing very well. They beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl one year, and also won the Fiesta under Urban Meyer. Moving onto a different conference was a no brainer because it gave them a better shot to compete for National Titles. They didn't move up from FCS though like the Griz would be doing.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Quick sample searches for these Urban Population Centers that the FBS supposedly prefers:

- Corvallis, OR - 55,000
- Norman, OK - 118,000
- Ames, IA - 62,000
- Manhattan, KS - 56,000
- Pullman, WA - 31,000
- Laramie, WY - 32,000

But not...?

- Missoula, MT - 69,000

We will find ourselves on the wrong side of the college football transition at some point without a forward-looking vision and strategic plan to achieve it. If we stay idle, the result WILL resemble a move down. We either need to dramatically improve the conference we are in, or we need to move to a conference with an upward trajectory.

 

[Blue Tears]

You do need to consider the surrounding area and their population. Of those you mentioned that are good programs, Oklahoma has Texas nearby to recruit, Oregon State has Northern California and K. State/Iowa State are in the midwest surrounded by bigger places and many possible FBS recruits. With that said, you are correct that the population of Missoula itself doesn't prevent an FBS invite.

 

[SoldierGriz]

You do need to consider the surrounding area and their population. Of those you mentioned that are good programs, Oklahoma has Texas nearby to recruit, Oregon State has Northern California and K. State/Iowa State are in the midwest surrounded by bigger places and many possible FBS recruits. With that said, you are correct that the population of Missoula itself doesn't prevent an FBS invite.

If coaches can recruit kids to play in Laramie, Ames, or Manhattan...they can recruit kids to play in Missoula. Ever been to Stillwater, OK, population 47,000?

How in the hell does Bill Self get those kids from all over the nation to come play hoops in Lawrence, Kansas?

My point is - Missoula, Montana is as good, better, or much better than MANY other places that seem to attract some talent. It's not a bridge too far.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Quick sample searches for these Urban Population Centers that the FBS supposedly prefers:

- Corvallis, OR - 55,000
- Norman, OK - 118,000
- Ames, IA - 62,000
- Manhattan, KS - 56,000
- Pullman, WA - 31,000
- Laramie, WY - 32,000

But not...?

- Missoula, MT - 69,000

We will find ourselves on the wrong side of the college football transition at some point without a forward-looking vision and strategic plan to achieve it. If we stay idle, the result WILL resemble a move down. We either need to dramatically improve the conference we are in, or we need to move to a conference with an upward trajectory.

Give it up, man. These guys remind me of this:

 

[Blue Tears]

I love Missoula as well. It is a great place. But what is preferable to us is not always great for a kid who would be venturing 2000 miles from home. If people grow up in an area, they are more likely to want to stay around that general place. That is why we don't recruit in Florida much any more even though it is an extremely fertile ground for football players. The cold up here is not the best recruiting tool generally either. I love Montana, but not all kids in warmer climates or other areas are going to choose us over comparable offers close to home. We can out recruit Sac State etc because we have facilities and tradition. We have neither of those as an advantage if we move up. Just my two cents. I appreciate you guys and your opinions. It helps for me to see the other side of things as well. I just happen to disagree on this particular topic.

 

[Blue Tears]

Be nice AZ. When people don't agree with you it doesn't necessarily mean you are the one who is right. You can have differing opinions and still be respectful. Remember, an open dialogue can be a healthy thing. After all, this is a message board.