Move-up Attendance Requirement

[HelenaHandBasket]

You are more likely to see the sponsorships and tv revenue for lower tier bowl games going away as opposed to being reworked. Also, the sponsorships are money that go into pockets of the NCAA and the actual cost of the game is put on the shoulders of the accepting teams with forced ticket minimums they must purchase.

Again, old way of thinking ... new system does not have to include this way of revenue share... Just because they do it this way now doesn't mean they can't change for the better...

You do realize is a large part of bowls is tradition. The NCAA has zero reason to buck it, and the lower echelon FBS schools are in no position to push for it. If the P5 decides to separate itself, it will be without the NCAA, because it will also effect basketball. It will leave the lower level FCS and mid major basketball with far less money.

 

[RzBCat]

There is indeed a rule about a minimum attendance to maintain status as an FBS football program. You're supposed to maintain a moving average of 15,000 over a two-year period. Trouble is, it has never really been enforced. And there are various ways to game the system to make your average look better. This link goes to an old (2019) article, but I'm sure the situation has not changed, and has probably gotten worse.
https://extrapoints.substack.com/p/the-ncaas-attendance-requirement

JMU should not have a problem, even if they just maintain their current attendance: They were #3 in FCS attendance in 2018 and 2019 (numbers for since then aren't out yet): They ran 18-20,000 per game.

SHSU has its work cut out it to even get close: They ran about 4,000 and less than 8,000 for 2018 and 2019. In fact, their home stadium has a capacity of only 14,000. So, during their transition to FBS as part of the WAC, they'll need to expand their stadium or find another place to play. And they will also need to greatly expand their fan support ... which could theoretically happen once they start to schedule FBS opponents.

They’re already in the WAC which is now an FCS conference. The FBS conference they’re moving to is Conference USA.

 

[grizindabox]

Again, old way of thinking ... new system does not have to include this way of revenue share... Just because they do it this way now doesn't mean they can't change for the better...

You do realize is a large part of bowls is tradition. The NCAA has zero reason to buck it, and the lower echelon FBS schools are in no position to push for it. If the P5 decides to separate itself, it will be without the NCAA, because it will also effect basketball. It will leave the lower level FCS and mid major basketball with far less money.

I will go as far to say that not only are FCS and other lower division playoffs a money loser, so are the lower tier bowls. A handful of bowls make the system work, and without P5 money, and the money that the NCAA makes from these upper tier bowl games, the lower tier games go away.

 

[IdaGriz01]

There is indeed a rule about a minimum attendance to maintain status as an FBS football program. ...

They’re already in the WAC which is now an FCS conference. The FBS conference they’re moving to is Conference USA.

Yep. How long that may take has been discussed ... see bottom of previous page. More research led to the conclusion that, as I implied, "come Hell or high water," SHSU will officially join C-USA football in the summer of 2023. They have revenue, stadium, and facility issues but, as I also said, the admin's attitude seems to be "No problemo!"

It will interesting to see what SHSU will do next year, which has not been announced, as far as I can tell. Given the confident vibe they have, I would not be surprised if the Bearkats began their transition to FBS -- i.e., more scholarships -- right away. Remains to be seen.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

You do realize that you do realize; do you even realize, or do you just realize?

 

[IdaGriz01]

...
I will go as far to say that not only are FCS and other lower division playoffs a money loser, so are the lower tier bowls. A handful of bowls make the system work, and without P5 money, and the money that the NCAA makes from these upper tier bowl games, the lower tier games go away.

Depends upon how you define "loser."

First, as this article says, the payouts do not go to the individuals schools that appear in a bowl game ... they go to the respective conferences. https://fanbuzz.com/college-football/bowl-game-payouts/

The conferences have their own formulas as to how to divy up that revenue. Admittedly, some of the payouts are pretty small, but quite a few go over the $1 million mark.

A good deal of that money comes from the bowl sponsors, along with the gate and TV rights. The sponsors "lose," in that sense, but can write it off as a advertising/publicity expense. And they seem to feel it's worth it.

 

[GrizTexas]

Again, old way of thinking ... new system does not have to include this way of revenue share... Just because they do it this way now doesn't mean they can't change for the better...

You do realize is a large part of bowls is tradition. The NCAA has zero reason to buck it, and the lower echelon FBS schools are in no position to push for it. If the P5 decides to separate itself, it will be without the NCAA, because it will also effect basketball. It will leave the lower level FCS and mid major basketball with far less money.

Again ... the way it is today isn't necessarily how it would or should be in the future. Biggest issue I have with the NCAA is that they have sat on their hands for 25 years. Things have changed and they have been unwilling to change with them... time for some new thinking.

Oh and BTW I was just looking at all those bowls steeped in tradition like the RoofClaim.com Boca Raton Bowl, the Jimmy Kimmel LA Bowl or my favorite the Tropical Smoothie Frisco Bowl. I don't think the Rose Bowl, Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Cotton or even the Gator, Alamo, Citrus will need to move away from the power 5 if a playoff exists nor do I think it would affect revenue. For all the others that survived if a 24 or 16 team playoff existed ... to repeat myself...more revenue, more sponsor support, better TV ratings and lot better attendance...

Basketball has nothing to do with it... they seem to have that figures out with March Madness...

 

[GrizTexas]

You do realize that you do realize; do you even realize, or do you just realize?

Realization; for some of us is only a temporary state of mind...

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

You do realize is a large part of bowls is tradition. The NCAA has zero reason to buck it, and the lower echelon FBS schools are in no position to push for it. If the P5 decides to separate itself, it will be without the NCAA, because it will also effect basketball. It will leave the lower level FCS and mid major basketball with far less money.

Again ... the way it is today isn't necessarily how it would or should be in the future. Biggest issue I have with the NCAA is that they have sat on their hands for 25 years. Things have changed and they have been unwilling to change with them... time for some new thinking.

Oh and BTW I was just looking at all those bowls steeped in tradition like the RoofClaim.com Boca Raton Bowl, the Jimmy Kimmel LA Bowl or my favorite the Tropical Smoothie Frisco Bowl. I don't think the Rose Bowl, Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Cotton or even the Gator, Alamo, Citrus will need to move away from the power 5 if a playoff exists nor do I think it would affect revenue. For all the others that survived if a 24 or 16 team playoff existed ... to repeat myself...more revenue, more sponsor support, better TV ratings and lot better attendance...

Basketball has nothing to do with it... they seem to have that figures out with March Madness...

First, basketball does matter, because if the P5 break away and separate from the NCAA, then March madness as we know it no longer exists. I also agree it could be different, but the NCAA has zero motivation to help enhance the experience of non P5 programs. And I didn't say all bowls are draped in tradition, just the ones that make the money that keeps the bowl system afloat. There will never be enough sponsors and TV to keep the lower tier bowls and playoffs for lower divisions above water, it is the money generated by the upper level that helps subsidize. The Jimmy Kimmel and Frisco bowl don't exist without the cash generated by Orange, Rose, etc. The P5 doesn't want a large playoff, and the NCAA has no control to make it happen.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

You do realize that you do realize; do you even realize, or do you just realize?

Realization; for some of us is only a temporary state of mind...

Except your solution isn't based on the reality of the issue.

 

[IdaGriz01]

...
First, basketball does matter, because if the P5 break away and separate from the NCAA, then March madness as we know it no longer exists. I also agree it could be different, but the NCAA has zero motivation to help enhance the experience of non P5 programs. And I didn't say all bowls are draped in tradition, just the ones that make the money that keeps the bowl system afloat. There will never be enough sponsors and TV to keep the lower tier bowls and playoffs for lower divisions above water, it is the money generated by the upper level that helps subsidize. The Jimmy Kimmel and Frisco bowl don't exist without the cash generated by Orange, Rose, etc. The P5 doesn't want a large playoff, and the NCAA has no control to make it happen.

You know, I've thought the same thing about the sponsors for a long, long time. Yet, somehow, people wanting to have a bowl keep finding new suckers -- uh, sponsors -- to throw in more money. Keep in mind that ESPN "owns" a bunch of bowls (I've lost count, but it used to be 15-20). They know (they have said) that a football game will beat out the viewership of virtually any other programming, at almost any time of the day. They have a lot of hours to fill, and they don't want to depend too much on reruns. So, until their sales force runs out of ideas, and suckers, the lesser bowls will be around.

 

[Pounder]

If bowl games were money losers, they would be canceled.

Trick to this… they’re often money losers for the schools involved, but that’s irrelevant to ESPN and a handful of other institutions that own and/or broadcast the bowl games. Instead, for the lower tier bowls, there’s 200K per school and another 600K of bored kids and wannabe kids that are making the networks more money than the basketball or hockey games the networks would otherwise show.

BTW… the WAC might have tried to push into FBS if nothing else had changed. Now, forget it. Thing is, the NCAA is anticipated to change their standards and/or the structure before the end of the school year. Do we really know what shakes out next?

 

[EverettGriz]

“Welcome to the 2025 FCS “national” championship on ESPN Minus. Today’s game features the Montana Grizzlies and the South Eastern New Mexico Junior College of Technology. Both these teams had similar roads to the title game, with byes in the first 3 rounds since there was no one else to play, and semifinal wins over local high school JV squads”.

 

[Griz til I die]

“Welcome to the 2025 FCS “national” championship on ESPN Minus. Today’s game features the Montana Grizzlies and the South Eastern New Mexico Junior College of Technology. Both these teams had similar roads to the title game, with byes in the first 3 rounds since there was no one else to play, and semifinal wins over local high school JV squads”.

Get the fuck over it already Everett. You’re beating a dead horse. NDSU, SDSU, msu, and many other respectable programs from the Valley and Big Sky are still here. Tell you what, if the FCS is so washed out, then stop watching. Hell maybe just boycott watching the Griz until they move up.

 

[EverettGriz]

“Welcome to the 2025 FCS “national” championship on ESPN Minus. Today’s game features the Montana Grizzlies and the South Eastern New Mexico Junior College of Technology. Both these teams had similar roads to the title game, with byes in the first 3 rounds since there was no one else to play, and semifinal wins over local high school JV squads”.

Get the [#]f### over it already Everett. You’re beating a dead horse. NDSU, SDSU, msu, and many other respectable programs from the Valley and Big Sky are still here. Tell you what, if the FCS is so washed out, then stop watching. Hell maybe just boycott watching the Griz until they move up.

YOU get the fvck over it already GTID. Because you have it exactly backward: I will NOT stop watching the GRIZ because I love UM, and that’s precisely why I want what’s best for it.

 

[Griz til I die]

Get the [#]f### over it already Everett. You’re beating a dead horse. NDSU, SDSU, msu, and many other respectable programs from the Valley and Big Sky are still here. Tell you what, if the FCS is so washed out, then stop watching. Hell maybe just boycott watching the Griz until they move up.

YOU get the fvck over it already GTID. Because you have it exactly backward: I will NOT stop watching the GRIZ because I love UM, and that’s precisely why I want what’s best for it.

Ya well guess what? We're stuck at the FCS for the foreseeable future whether you like it or not. Unless you wanna call up the Mountain West and tell them why you think they should take us. Maybe by some odd miracle they'll answer your call, because they don't seem to be answering anyone else's.

 

[EverettGriz]

YOU get the fvck over it already GTID. Because you have it exactly backward: I will NOT stop watching the GRIZ because I love UM, and that’s precisely why I want what’s best for it.

Ya well guess what? We're stuck at the FCS for the foreseeable future whether you like it or not. Unless you wanna call up the Mountain West and tell them why you think they should take us. Maybe by some odd miracle they'll answer your call, because they don't seem to be answering anyone else's.

No one has claimed differently. But that’s a much different convo than the one usually had on here, which is that Montana can NEVER move up, supported with a host of nonsensical reasons ranging from geography and population to Idaho failed and everything in between.

My goal is to highlight that if we’re not ready and committed when the time comes, we’ll be stuck pushing a toy boat around in the kiddie pool, while far lesser programs are sailing the Seven Seas.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Ya well guess what? We're stuck at the FCS for the foreseeable future whether you like it or not. Unless you wanna call up the Mountain West and tell them why you think they should take us. Maybe by some odd miracle they'll answer your call, because they don't seem to be answering anyone else's.

No one has claimed differently. But that’s a much different convo than the one usually had on here, which is that Montana can NEVER move up, supported with a host of nonsensical reasons ranging from geography and population to Idaho failed and everything in between.

My goal is to highlight that if we’re not ready and committed when the time comes, we’ll be stuck pushing a toy boat around in the kiddie pool, while far lesser programs are sailing the Seven Seas.

I think geography limits the possible opportunities.

 

[MikeyGriz]

There is an attendance requirement on the books, but it's never been enforced. As usual, the NCAA is very selective in requirements it chooses to enforce. 7565 at SHSU; 14,690 at JMU.

Seems like its time for the NCAA to set some new classifications in place and do some enforcement ... maybe separate the power 5 and then add some level of requirements that need to be adhered to for the rest of the FBS teams, even add an expanded playoff and NC. Seems like this makes the most sense for the integrity of the game, expanded participation in the post season and inclusion for the second tier bowls and their sponsors. But then again when has the NCAA ever done anything that makes sense!!

How long has it been since the NCAA has done anything "for the integrity of the game"? Now if you were talking about pursuit of the almighty dollar...................

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Seems like its time for the NCAA to set some new classifications in place and do some enforcement ... maybe separate the power 5 and then add some level of requirements that need to be adhered to for the rest of the FBS teams, even add an expanded playoff and NC. Seems like this makes the most sense for the integrity of the game, expanded participation in the post season and inclusion for the second tier bowls and their sponsors. But then again when has the NCAA ever done anything that makes sense!!

How long has it been since the NCAA has done anything "for the integrity of the game"? Now if you were talking about pursuit of the almighty dollar...................

Mikey put it so much more elegantly than myself.