Most likely FCS vs FBS upsets

[BWahlberg]

also did you just compare UM football to Oklahoma ? wow.....

It's a pretty good comparison... both feature(d) Big Game Bobs, have underperformed in championships over the last decade, typically win double-digit games, and so forth. The only comparisons that might be better would be USC or OSU with their off-the-field issues

If someone wanted to call Carroll the Mount Union or Grand Valley or App State or Bama of NAIA, it would be pretty fitting as well

Yep, thank you - hence the OK comparison. A team that is usually "in the mix" but of late has fallen short in the final game.

 

[BWahlberg]

if we follow your thinking, Coach Reed at Div II PSU in the 80's and Coach Glenn from div II N. Colorado should have never been given the chance - if memoriy serves me right, those guys turned out okay. Coach Beers and Coach Lubick started their coaching careers at UM Western, both Petrino boys came from NAIA coaching staffs. Rich Rodriguez - W Virg. and Mich, Kelly at ND are all from small schools. i'm sure there are numberous other examples.

your worry is that Van Diest will be in over his head. well, the current status of griz football needs a positive shake up and i would be willing to bet the university administration is okay with a few "transition years" to get the football program back on solid footing.

So I see it like this NAIA -> D3 -> D2 -> FCS -> FBS. Hence the Don Read from D2 Portland to FCS/1-AA Montana is only a 1 level move-up while MVD to Montana is a multiple level move up. ADDITIONALLY when Don Read came to Montana our team was terrible, it was not the continual national contender that it is in this time. FINALLY it's hard to compare the competitive nature of the college football era of the mid 80's to now, nearly 30 years later - two totally different platforms.

Look at Brian Kelly, one of the greatest recent D2 coaches, he went from GVSU to a dogcrap Central Michigan team, turned them around, then moved into a BCS-leauge team Cincy, and is now at Notre Dame.

Or Chip Kelly who was an accomplished lower division assistant I believe and worked his way up at a then super crappy UNH FCS team, then moving up to an assistant job at still emerging (at that time) Oregon in it's newer system - which he grew to what it is today.

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Oregon and Notre Dame would not reach back and pluck a successful D2/D3/lower coach for a head coaching job - that coach would have ranks to come up thorugh to PROVE they can coach at the next level. M

any other coaches that were successful at other levels have proven as they move up the chain they can't cut it - and it's not worth the gamble to hire a coach out that has no head coaching experience at the level the team currently plays at. Schools like Idaho State and UNC can take that gamble, hire a successful NAIA coach and if he works, great, if not - no biggie, more bad seasons ahead. Schools like Montana can't / won't do that.

 

[MrTitleist]

MVD would have to recruit guys that can pass a piss test if he ever came to UM...

 

[BWahlberg]

#Boom

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

So I see it like this NAIA -> D3 -> D2 -> FCS -> FBS. Hence the Don Read from D2 Portland to FCS/1-AA Montana is only a 1 level move-up while MVD to Montana is a multiple level move up. ADDITIONALLY when Don Read came to Montana our team was terrible, it was not the continual national contender that it is in this time. FINALLY it's hard to compare the competitive nature of the college football era of the mid 80's to now, nearly 30 years later - two totally different platforms.

Look at Brian Kelly, one of the greatest recent D2 coaches, he went from GVSU to a dogcrap Central Michigan team, turned them around, then moved into a BCS-leauge team Cincy, and is now at Notre Dame.

Or Chip Kelly who was an accomplished lower division assistant I believe and worked his way up at a then super crappy UNH FCS team, then moving up to an assistant job at still emerging (at that time) Oregon in it's newer system - which he grew to what it is today.

-----------

Oregon and Notre Dame would not reach back and pluck a successful D2/D3/lower coach for a head coaching job - that coach would have ranks to come up thorugh to PROVE they can coach at the next level. M

any other coaches that were successful at other levels have proven as they move up the chain they can't cut it - and it's not worth the gamble to hire a coach out that has no head coaching experience at the level the team currently plays at. Schools like Idaho State and UNC can take that gamble, hire a successful NAIA coach and if he works, great, if not - no biggie, more bad seasons ahead. Schools like Montana can't / won't do that.

NAIA is a better league than D3. The Frontier Conference could move to the D2 level and be moderatly competitive and Carroll has a history of beating top ranked D2 teams (CWU when they were top 5 a couple years ago). I think you are either giving NCAA D2/D3 too much credit or undervaluing the Frontier Conference.

Saying that, I see PSU winnin by at least 28. I think Carroll is going to be down a bit this year and PSU will be improved. In past years they might have had a little bit better of a shot.

MVD is a good coach and I think he has the coaching ability to be successful at the BSC level if he were given the opportunity. He'll never be given that chance though. It has nothing to do with his "offense" or being an "NAIA level coach". It's more about him just flat out not being a good fit. He would be giving up alot of control and that would be counterintuitive to his style and personality. He runs the entire show at Carroll and really doesn't answer to anybody. That wouldn't work here, especially with the recent history of issues.

 

[bisonboone11]

Even the blind squirrel finds a nut a few times, congrats on having a handful of wins against some of the worst FCS teams in the country - it still doesn't mean Carroll will come close to PSU, mostly because PSU is a significantly better team than UNC or ISU or UND.

Also MVD is not a perfect fit for the Griz, his style of offense isn't the same. Additionally while he's a very well storied coach at the NAIA level jumping up to an HC job at one of the premier FCS programs is too far of a leap. It would equate to a well accomplished division 3 coach just taking the head job at Oklahoma or something like that - too far of a leap in level of competition, IMO.

Sorry, I know this is off-topic, but I was wondering where the Griz fans feel UND will rank in the Big Sky Conference this year?

 

[BWahlberg]

I should've prefaced that UND statement with a few years back when they lost to a D2 school - last year weren't they 8-3 and have only lost a handful to graduation?

They should be in the upper half for sure, that's a team that could surprise a few this year in the Big Sky.

 

[bisonboone11]

I should've prefaced that UND statement with a few years back when they lost to a D2 school - last year weren't they 8-3 and have only lost a handful to graduation?

They should be in the upper half for sure, that's a team that could surprise a few this year in the Big Sky.

Sorry. I wasn't questioning what you said. I was just curious as to the opinion of the Griz fans in general. Yeah, they were 8-3 last year, but their schedule wasn't real difficult. 4 of their wins were against very poor teams. They beat Sioux Falls on a last second field goal (Sioux falls was in their transition to DII from NAIA). They beat Northern Colorado by 2 on a field goal with less than 2 minutes left. The other two easy wins were against Black Hills State University (NAIA), and Montana-Western (NAIA). So yeah, they were 8-3, but it's tough to tell how good they really are with that sort of competition.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I should've prefaced that UND statement with a few years back when they lost to a D2 school - last year weren't they 8-3 and have only lost a handful to graduation?

They should be in the upper half for sure, that's a team that could surprise a few this year in the Big Sky.

Sorry. I wasn't questioning what you said. I was just curious as to the opinion of the Griz fans in general. Yeah, they were 8-3 last year, but their schedule wasn't real difficult. 4 of their wins were against very poor teams. They beat Sioux Falls on a last second field goal (Sioux falls was in their transition to DII from NAIA). They beat Northern Colorado by 2 on a field goal with less than 2 minutes left. The other two easy wins were against Black Hills State University (NAIA), and Montana-Western (NAIA). So yeah, they were 8-3, but it's tough to tell how good they really are with that sort of competition.

Well, they went 5-1 against FCS competition. That says something. :thumb: