More Coaches and Players Going...

[Still a Griz]

Who in the hell would want to play in this HELL HOLE, the media circus that exists. Poor Adminstration support. Shut is down, Start over.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

With the current public info on JJs case, Pflu, Oday and all the other cases this is nothing more than an absolute witch hunt burning at the stake.

Why would players want to stay at a university that has a permanent target on them? Any accusation will ruin them, there is no need of any evidence or proof. No rule of law to be followed only the LYNCH MOB that will hang those kids at anytime.

Until this Lynch mob and Engstrom are gone I see no reason why any decent athlete would want play football at UM.

Until the stuff you apparently agree with like rape, home invasions and curbstompings......I dont think we should have football at UM until its cleaned up.

But hey you just keep looking the other way while people with integrity restore the tradition and pride back to this university.

Thanks Royce for doing the job nobody wanted to do for a decade.

 

[Grizhugger]

lets keep this in perspective;
this is a game and these boys are learning life skills;
some may or may not go beyond their college experience;
those that do as well as those that don't need to value their education and the gift they have been given;
so you men and boys out there please cowboy up and leave your spurs at home;
those of you that see boys when you look in the mirror, you don't belong here....
those of you that see men.....you are true griz! and we need you now more that ever
that's all I have to say - I am a proud griz and will always be one
but really this is not the end of the world...I prefer to look at it as a new beginning.
peace out...

 

[George Ferguson]

Sorry Cats! Kidder says he's sticking with the Griz. He said it's the tradition of the program, not the coach. KRTV also spoke with Ben Weyer and Bo Harris and both said they are Griz and won't change their minds.

 

[AbeWaters]

I think we all know JJ is gone. I would be shocked to see him play this year.
Wouldn't be surprised to see some of Pflu's other young, prized recruits from the last three years go, either.

As a football team, I loved where we were heading. On a moral character standpoint, I can see how this might have been necessary. All of this is just painfully unfortunate for everyone.

Just wondering how we all know JJ is gone? Were any official charges ever filed?

 

[uofmman1122]

I think we all know JJ is gone. I would be shocked to see him play this year.
Wouldn't be surprised to see some of Pflu's other young, prized recruits from the last three years go, either.

As a football team, I loved where we were heading. On a moral character standpoint, I can see how this might have been necessary. All of this is just painfully unfortunate for everyone.

Just wondering how we all know JJ is gone? Were any official charges ever filed?

While I don't know for certain, I think it will either be because there's something about his case that we don't know about, or because his coach, the guy that made him his signature recruit, just got fired for sticking up for him that we will not see him in Missoula much longer.

I hope that's not true. JJ is my first choice, and I stand behind him and really hope he stays, but I dunno if he will even if he's completely innocent.

 

[LongTimeCatFan]

With the current public info on JJs case, Pflu, Oday and all the other cases this is nothing more than an absolute witch hunt burning at the stake.

Why would players want to stay at a university that has a permanent target on them? Any accusation will ruin them, there is no need of any evidence or proof. No rule of law to be followed only the LYNCH MOB that will hang those kids at anytime.

Until this Lynch mob and Engstrom are gone I see no reason why any decent athlete would want play football at UM.

Do you ever have a rational thought?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

 

[GrizDDS]

My initial thought when they said JJ was being withheld from practice was that they'd suspend him for a year, basically redshirt him, and then move forward with Montana/Kemp. Who knows.

 

[Tokyogriz]

With the current public info on JJs case, Pflu, Oday and all the other cases this is nothing more than an absolute witch hunt burning at the stake.

Why would players want to stay at a university that has a permanent target on them? Any accusation will ruin them, there is no need of any evidence or proof. No rule of law to be followed only the LYNCH MOB that will hang those kids at anytime.

Until this Lynch mob and Engstrom are gone I see no reason why any decent athlete would want play football at UM.

Do you ever have a rational thought?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

What I said is rational.

Asking for reasons for dismisal is rational. Wanting the rule of law, innocent until proven guilty and the rights we enjoy as americans to be respected is rational.

As this has been handled firing Oday and Pflu without any given cause other than Engstrom saying he wanted to change leadership. Asking for the real reason is rational.

Lynch mobs like yourselves and many others on this board however are not rational. You may feel satisfied with the outcome but its not rational nor just. Unless Engstrom is withholding some big bombshell Oday never deserved this nor did Pflu.

The University of Montana is a public entity not a private corporation. I have the right to question the firing of these men. The people of Montana and Um alumns support this institution and also deserve a transparent and honest reply to this question.

 

[BWahlberg]

Again, where is it printed that JJ is gone? (other than on here)

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Jokyo must have missed the multiple rapes, curbstompings, home invasions, DUIs and tasings.

Please forgive him his medication is off................ :roll:

 

[grizindabox]

Some of what people post on egriz is priceless. I just sit back and laugh at tools like Tokyo, crack, and the rest of the brainless mob

 

[AZGrizFan]

With the current public info on JJs case, Pflu, Oday and all the other cases this is nothing more than an absolute witch hunt burning at the stake.

Why would players want to stay at a university that has a permanent target on them? Any accusation will ruin them, there is no need of any evidence or proof. No rule of law to be followed only the LYNCH MOB that will hang those kids at anytime.

Until this Lynch mob and Engstrom are gone I see no reason why any decent athlete would want play football at UM.

Do you ever have a rational thought?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

What I said is rational.

Asking for reasons for dismisal is rational. Wanting the rule of law, innocent until proven guilty and the rights we enjoy as americans to be respected is rational.

As this has been handled firing Oday and Pflu without any given cause other than Engstrom saying he wanted to change leadership. Asking for the real reason is rational.

Lynch mobs like yourselves and many others on this board however are not rational. You may feel satisfied with the outcome but its not rational nor just. Unless Engstrom is withholding some big bombshell Oday never deserved this nor did Pflu.

The University of Montana is a public entity not a private corporation. I have the right to question the firing of these men. The people of Montana and Um alumns support this institution and also deserve a transparent and honest reply to this question.

You have obviously never held a leadership position. When shit happens on your watch, you're held accountable. In my opinion, if I had been in Engstrom's shoes I'd have canned Pflu as soon as the Donaldson issue came to light. The rest of this crap since then is just a preponderance of evidence piling up against him.

 

[grizatwork]

With the current public info on JJs case, Pflu, Oday and all the other cases this is nothing more than an absolute witch hunt burning at the stake.

Why would players want to stay at a university that has a permanent target on them? Any accusation will ruin them, there is no need of any evidence or proof. No rule of law to be followed only the LYNCH MOB that will hang those kids at anytime.

Until this Lynch mob and Engstrom are gone I see no reason why any decent athlete would want play football at UM.

Do you ever have a rational thought?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

What I said is rational.

Asking for reasons for dismisal is rational. Wanting the rule of law, innocent until proven guilty and the rights we enjoy as americans to be respected is rational.

As this has been handled firing Oday and Pflu without any given cause other than Engstrom saying he wanted to change leadership. Asking for the real reason is rational.

Lynch mobs like yourselves and many others on this board however are not rational. You may feel satisfied with the outcome but its not rational nor just. Unless Engstrom is withholding some big bombshell Oday never deserved this nor did Pflu.

The University of Montana is a public entity not a private corporation. I have the right to question the firing of these men. The people of Montana and Um alumns support this institution and also deserve a transparent and honest reply to this question.

Firing an employee or not renewing their contract is not a criminal proceding and they do not have to make it public record. In fact, they open themselves up to legal action if they say too much. Ask MSU how the termination of Kramer went for them? It is still a human resources issue and those are often no ones business. Trust me, the university and Engstrom dotted their i's and crossed their t's with their legal team before they made this decision. I also think there is more coming that will make this seem like a good proactive decision.

Next time you call a previous employer of someone you want to hire, you will get an education. You will not hear "they were a good employee", you will not hear "they were a bad employee". About the only thing you will hear is "they were employed here from start date to end date". Too many employers have been burned by saying too much about current or past employees. It is a fact of life.

 

[LongTimeCatFan]

With the current public info on JJs case, Pflu, Oday and all the other cases this is nothing more than an absolute witch hunt burning at the stake.

Why would players want to stay at a university that has a permanent target on them? Any accusation will ruin them, there is no need of any evidence or proof. No rule of law to be followed only the LYNCH MOB that will hang those kids at anytime.

Until this Lynch mob and Engstrom are gone I see no reason why any decent athlete would want play football at UM.

Do you ever have a rational thought?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

What I said is rational.

Asking for reasons for dismisal is rational. Wanting the rule of law, innocent until proven guilty and the rights we enjoy as americans to be respected is rational.

As this has been handled firing Oday and Pflu without any given cause other than Engstrom saying he wanted to change leadership. Asking for the real reason is rational.

Lynch mobs like yourselves and many others on this board however are not rational. You may feel satisfied with the outcome but its not rational nor just. Unless Engstrom is withholding some big bombshell Oday never deserved this nor did Pflu.

The University of Montana is a public entity not a private corporation. I have the right to question the firing of these men. The people of Montana and Um alumns support this institution and also deserve a transparent and honest reply to this question.

First, UM doesn't have to give just cause for dismissal. It says so in their contract. You will NEVER hear them give the cause for dismissing these two. That opens the door for discussion, which can lead to wrongful termination suits. Exhibit A-- see the way Mike Kramer was handled. Besides, you already know why. Why do you need to hear them say so?

Second, it seems you are hell bent on confusing the difference between a priveledge and a right. Freedom is a right and to protect that right, we have a justice system that presumes innocence until proven guilty. Playing football is a priveledge and shares none of the protections of rights. The people asking for zero tolerance policies to change the culture are right on. They are not "lynch mobs" by any stretch of the imagination and for you to call them as such only proves your ignorance. The fact is that we make choices every day and those choices reflect not only on ourselves, but also on the organizations we represent. That is real life. If you do not hold these young men accountable for their actions, you are doing them a great dis-service. That is exactly what has happened at UM for the last few years. If you don't believe it, you must be delusional.

Third, I suppose it might be unfair to say that you are acting irrational on this. This must have come as a shock to you (it shouldn't have) and you are in the denial phase. Truthfully, what is shocking is that it took so long to get to this conclusion because clearly these two were not providing any leadership abilities with regard to these issues. You should be thanking Engstrom for having the intestinal fortitude to say to everyone that the path UM was on was wrong, but we are taking corrective measures.

Fourth, you need to know that many of us Bobcats reacted in very similar ways after Kramer was fired. We loved him. What we didn't know is that we could come out of the mess stronger than before. Sure MSU still has occasional issues, but not the frequency of what we had before or of what UM has today. You will be better off and you too will come out stronger. Have patience and have faith. Placing the well being of the community, the student welfare, the campus safety, and the accountability of student athletes ABOVE wins on the field, is the right thing to do. You cannot continue to operate with that value system inverted as you have and today Engstrom made it clear that it will no longer be tolerated. So instead of tearing him down, why don't you congratulate him and thank him for making the right decision before the NCAA did it for you? That would be more embarrassing, wouldn't it?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

 

[Copper Griz]

With the current public info on JJs case, Pflu, Oday and all the other cases this is nothing more than an absolute witch hunt burning at the stake.

Why would players want to stay at a university that has a permanent target on them? Any accusation will ruin them, there is no need of any evidence or proof. No rule of law to be followed only the LYNCH MOB that will hang those kids at anytime.

Until this Lynch mob and Engstrom are gone I see no reason why any decent athlete would want play football at UM.

Do you ever have a rational thought?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

What I said is rational.

Asking for reasons for dismisal is rational. Wanting the rule of law, innocent until proven guilty and the rights we enjoy as americans to be respected is rational.

As this has been handled firing Oday and Pflu without any given cause other than Engstrom saying he wanted to change leadership. Asking for the real reason is rational.

Lynch mobs like yourselves and many others on this board however are not rational. You may feel satisfied with the outcome but its not rational nor just. Unless Engstrom is withholding some big bombshell Oday never deserved this nor did Pflu.

The University of Montana is a public entity not a private corporation. I have the right to question the firing of these men. The people of Montana and Um alumns support this institution and also deserve a transparent and honest reply to this question.

First, UM doesn't have to give just cause for dismissal. It says so in their contract. You will NEVER hear them give the cause for dismissing these two. That opens the door for discussion, which can lead to wrongful termination suits. Exhibit A-- see the way Mike Kramer was handled. Besides, you already know why. Why do you need to hear them say so?

Second, it seems you are hell bent on confusing the difference between a priveledge and a right. Freedom is a right and to protect that right, we have a justice system that presumes innocence until proven guilty. Playing football is a priveledge and shares none of the protections of rights. The people asking for zero tolerance policies to change the culture are right on. They are not "lynch mobs" by any stretch of the imagination and for you to call them as such only proves your ignorance. The fact is that we make choices every day and those choices reflect not only on ourselves, but also on the organizations we represent. That is real life. If you do not hold these young men accountable for their actions, you are doing them a great dis-service. That is exactly what has happened at UM for the last few years. If you don't believe it, you must be delusional.

Third, I suppose it might be unfair to say that you are acting irrational on this. This must have come as a shock to you (it shouldn't have) and you are in the denial phase. Truthfully, what is shocking is that it took so long to get to this conclusion because clearly these two were not providing any leadership abilities with regard to these issues. You should be thanking Engstrom for having the intestinal fortitude to say to everyone that the path UM was on was wrong, but we are taking corrective measures.

Fourth, you need to know that many of us Bobcats reacted in very similar ways after Kramer was fired. We loved him. What we didn't know is that we could come out of the mess stronger than before. Sure MSU still has occasional issues, but not the frequency of what we had before or of what UM has today. You will be better off and you too will come out stronger. Have patience and have faith. Placing the well being of the community, the student welfare, the campus safety, and the accountability of student athletes ABOVE wins on the field, is the right thing to do. You cannot continue to operate with that value system inverted as you have and today Engstrom made it clear that it will no longer be tolerated. So instead of tearing him down, why don't you congratulate him and thank him for making the right decision before the NCAA did it for you? That would be more embarrassing, wouldn't it?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

Well stated LTCF and I agree with the majority of your points. Should Pflu and O'Day have been fired? I think the answer is an obvious yes. Should Engstrom also be fired? I think the answer is yes. All three of these gentlemen were culpable and the handling of the alleged sexual assaults from within the football program and from non - athletes was pathetic. All three must go, which sends a very concise and clear message. This type of behavior and lack of strong leadership will not be tolerated. Wipe the slate clean and move forward.

 

[stubbins]

With the current public info on JJs case, Pflu, Oday and all the other cases this is nothing more than an absolute witch hunt burning at the stake.

Why would players want to stay at a university that has a permanent target on them? Any accusation will ruin them, there is no need of any evidence or proof. No rule of law to be followed only the LYNCH MOB that will hang those kids at anytime.

Until this Lynch mob and Engstrom are gone I see no reason why any decent athlete would want play football at UM.

Do you ever have a rational thought?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

What I said is rational.

Asking for reasons for dismisal is rational. Wanting the rule of law, innocent until proven guilty and the rights we enjoy as americans to be respected is rational.

As this has been handled firing Oday and Pflu without any given cause other than Engstrom saying he wanted to change leadership. Asking for the real reason is rational.

Lynch mobs like yourselves and many others on this board however are not rational. You may feel satisfied with the outcome but its not rational nor just. Unless Engstrom is withholding some big bombshell Oday never deserved this nor did Pflu.

The University of Montana is a public entity not a private corporation. I have the right to question the firing of these men. The people of Montana and Um alumns support this institution and also deserve a transparent and honest reply to this question.

First, UM doesn't have to give just cause for dismissal. It says so in their contract. You will NEVER hear them give the cause for dismissing these two. That opens the door for discussion, which can lead to wrongful termination suits. Exhibit A-- see the way Mike Kramer was handled. Besides, you already know why. Why do you need to hear them say so?

Second, it seems you are hell bent on confusing the difference between a priveledge and a right. Freedom is a right and to protect that right, we have a justice system that presumes innocence until proven guilty. Playing football is a priveledge and shares none of the protections of rights. The people asking for zero tolerance policies to change the culture are right on. They are not "lynch mobs" by any stretch of the imagination and for you to call them as such only proves your ignorance. The fact is that we make choices every day and those choices reflect not only on ourselves, but also on the organizations we represent. That is real life. If you do not hold these young men accountable for their actions, you are doing them a great dis-service. That is exactly what has happened at UM for the last few years. If you don't believe it, you must be delusional.

Third, I suppose it might be unfair to say that you are acting irrational on this. This must have come as a shock to you (it shouldn't have) and you are in the denial phase. Truthfully, what is shocking is that it took so long to get to this conclusion because clearly these two were not providing any leadership abilities with regard to these issues. You should be thanking Engstrom for having the intestinal fortitude to say to everyone that the path UM was on was wrong, but we are taking corrective measures.

Fourth, you need to know that many of us Bobcats reacted in very similar ways after Kramer was fired. We loved him. What we didn't know is that we could come out of the mess stronger than before. Sure MSU still has occasional issues, but not the frequency of what we had before or of what UM has today. You will be better off and you too will come out stronger. Have patience and have faith. Placing the well being of the community, the student welfare, the campus safety, and the accountability of student athletes ABOVE wins on the field, is the right thing to do. You cannot continue to operate with that value system inverted as you have and today Engstrom made it clear that it will no longer be tolerated. So instead of tearing him down, why don't you congratulate him and thank him for making the right decision before the NCAA did it for you? That would be more embarrassing, wouldn't it?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: except for in JJ's case, or in Pflu's, if it's true he was fired for the comments. If it was something else we don't know about, then you may be right. But, on the surface, that statement is not correct.

 

[GrizPony]

Some of what people post on egriz is priceless. I just sit back and laugh at tools like Tokyo, crack, and the rest of the brainless mob

I would like to know what I posted that meets your definition. I know for a fact I am smarter than you will ever hope to be.

 

[Grizmayor]

Some of what people post on egriz is priceless. I just sit back and laugh at tools like Tokyo, crack, and the rest of the brainless mob

I would like to know what I posted that meets your definition. I know for a fact I am smarter than you will ever hope to be.

Jizzinthebox does have a pretty high opinion of his opinions... I just wish he'd get his typing hand off his package long enough to speed up his retorts for us mental minions.

 

[grizfan47]

With the current public info on JJs case, Pflu, Oday and all the other cases this is nothing more than an absolute witch hunt burning at the stake.

Why would players want to stay at a university that has a permanent target on them? Any accusation will ruin them, there is no need of any evidence or proof. No rule of law to be followed only the LYNCH MOB that will hang those kids at anytime.

Until this Lynch mob and Engstrom are gone I see no reason why any decent athlete would want play football at UM.

Do you ever have a rational thought?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

What I said is rational.

Asking for reasons for dismisal is rational. Wanting the rule of law, innocent until proven guilty and the rights we enjoy as americans to be respected is rational.

As this has been handled firing Oday and Pflu without any given cause other than Engstrom saying he wanted to change leadership. Asking for the real reason is rational.

Lynch mobs like yourselves and many others on this board however are not rational. You may feel satisfied with the outcome but its not rational nor just. Unless Engstrom is withholding some big bombshell Oday never deserved this nor did Pflu.

The University of Montana is a public entity not a private corporation. I have the right to question the firing of these men. The people of Montana and Um alumns support this institution and also deserve a transparent and honest reply to this question.

You have obviously never held a leadership position. When shit happens on your watch, you're held accountable. In my opinion, if I had been in Engstrom's shoes I'd have canned Pflu as soon as the Donaldson issue came to light. The rest of this crap since then is just a preponderance of evidence piling up against him.

Who would want to have a job and career where you have to depend on the 24/7 actions of young, glorified, spoiled (in some intances), testoterome (sp) loaded men with varied degrees of self importance and self discipline. Add in 24/7 mob news and political correctness. God bless the men that can do that but I will stick to my less stressful life style.