montana talent

[citygriz]

i've been thinking a lot about this lately, how in footall we have such a resource in homegrown talent--carpenter, hilliard, mariani, anderson, biermann, et. al.--and by and large are able to keep that talent here, while in basketball we not only don't have much talent, but can't keep it in-state. football, kids grew up on the griz, want to be here, and can expect a good run in a national tournament with some national tv exposure and a good record of putting kids in the pros. but in basketball, with the exception of selvig, the few good kids leave, and can only expect a one-and-done in a national tournament three or four times a decade with little tv exposure. big wish would be, montana develops more talent, and we keep a bigger chunk of it. realistically, it's hard to see how that can happen in the big sky conference.

final question: has the in-state bb talent dried up, or does it only seem that way to me since we attract so little of it.

 

[wbtfg]

Football is king in montana. 20 years ago guys like matt miller, tanner rodderick...etc likely would have gone the bball route. Also, 20 years ago D-1 mens programs had 2 or 3 more scholarships where they could take a chance on more in state kids.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

Darn title 9 anyway! Those ladies need to be back in the kitchen makin' us sammiches instead running around and playing sports!
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*disclaimer - only being facetious.*

 

[George Ferguson]

I hate saying this, but in all honesty, Montana high school BB is NOT very good. Even look at the Frontier Conference rosters. The teams that want to compete for a Frontier title, and go to the NAIA national tournament, are NOT loaded with impact MT players from top to bottom. Northern has been to the NAIA tourney four out of the last five seasons, and in that stretch, only Shaun Tatarka and Corbin Pearson have been truly impact players from the state of Montana. In the old days of the Frontier, entire starting lineups were made up of Montana kids. But then again, as mentioned above, H.S. basketball is not king in Montana anymore. This just isn't the days of Elvis Old Bull. Hell, the H.I.T. isn't even by invitation only anymore. They let freshman and sophomores play in that all-star tournament now. In the old days of the HIT, there were really GOOD players who couldn't get in it.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Because good basketball coaches and staffs are hard to find in Montana. Anyone that has officiated HS basketball can attest to how few good coaching staffs there are in the state. Most the better coaches are coaching AAU or not given a chance to coach because of the emphasis on being a teacher too. I will not expand upon that. Last time I did, a few let me know that is not the case.

 

[temp]

I have never bought into the notion that high school basketball in Montana is bad or has gone down hill. A few of the things that I think conspire against in-state kids...

1. Basketball recruiting is almost exclusively done in the summer. If you don't play AAU ball then you are going to have a hard time getting any exposure. Being a huge state and having our talent spread hundreds of miles from each other it is always going to be hard to find enough good kids with the money and resources available to put together an in-state team. Tinkle has done it for Tres and he and two other kids on the team are getting D1 attention. I think if more parents were able to put together teams more kids would be given opportunities.

2. It has already been mentioned, but cutting scholarships from 15 to 13 has really hurt the Montana boys. It makes it less likely that us or MSU will take a chance on a local kid.

3. This had been mentioned too, but football has taken over in this state. Both schools have packed stadiums and generate tons of excitement for every game. Between the two schools there are 126 scholarships available compared to 26 for basketball. Football can also break those down into partials but basketball can not. Athletic kids have a better chance of making it in football.

4. Justified or not Tinkle has a reputation of not liking Montana kids. I am a big fan and supporter of his but I am starting to lose this argument when I have it. When facts like these are thrown in my face I have little response...In 8 years he has given 2 MT kids scholarships. One was a 7 foot tall legacy and the other is on the end of the bench and has never been given a chance. Ryan Edwards wanted to be a Griz, but he had offers from Gonzaga, Washington State and Boise State before Tinkle bothered to offer him. At that point it is pretty easy for a kid to drop is allegiance when a top 25 team shows you more love than your favorite team. In Tinkle's defense he did just sign a Montana kid for next year, but 3 in 9 years is not much to brag about.

If my count is right I think we have 8 Montana kids currently on D1 rosters. Half of those are walk-ons but they have made the team. Only one of those kids is a Senior and none are Juniors so with the coming classes that number is likely to grow to double digits. I am not sure if that is that low of a number. If we were a city in California with a million people in it how many D1 kids would we be expected to have? (not trying to be snooty with that question, really just asking because I am not sure)

 

[AllWeatherFan]

I think a coach has to recruit kids that he believes will have the best overall impact on team success, no matter where they're from. Would any coach in his right mind take a Montana kid over an out-of-state kid, if the coach sincerely believed it would be detrimental to the team?

(Riley Bradshaw is clearly a Montana kid who fits that bill. And I sincerely hope the Glendive kid becomes a star.)

Part of the problem is that, in this information age, it's easier for coaches from major programs to find out about and see game film of Montana's best high school players.

Finally, I consider Brandon Gfeller to be a "Montana kid" in many ways. Ever driven through Colfax? You could plop that little town anywhere in our great state and it would seem right at home.

 

[Griz1]

I know Tinkle tried to recruit Josh Huestis from Great Falls. I think if a kid is offered a ride to Stanford vs Montana that is where he goes. Wayne likes Montana kids and to insinuate otherwise is not accurate. That being said with 13 scholarships a coach has to take who he thinks is going to be the best player. Criswell was a walk-on who earned a scholarship. To imply Emerson has never been given a chance is not correct either. He is a good kid who earned his scholarship. It was not given to him because he was from Montana.

I would not be surprised if we didn't get Tinkle's son either. Does that mean he doesn't like Montana kids? I don't think so and I hope we do get him.

 

['68griz]

I know Tinkle tried to recruit Josh Huestis from Great Falls. I think if a kid is offered a ride to Stanford vs Montana that is where he goes. Wayne likes Montana kids and to insinuate otherwise is not accurate. That being said with 13 scholarships a coach has to take who he thinks is going to be the best player. Criswell was a walk-on who earned a scholarship. To imply Emerson has never been given a chance is not correct either. He is a good kid who earned his scholarship. It was not given to him because he was from Montana.

I would not be surprised if we didn't get Tinkle's son either. Does that mean he doesn't like Montana kids? I don't think so and I hope we do get him.

I enjoyed watching Huestis on TV last night in the Stanford-Northwestern game.

 

[grizophile]

I have never bought into the notion that high school basketball in Montana is bad or has gone down hill. A few of the things that I think conspire against in-state kids...

1. Basketball recruiting is almost exclusively done in the summer. If you don't play AAU ball then you are going to have a hard time getting any exposure. Being a huge state and having our talent spread hundreds of miles from each other it is always going to be hard to find enough good kids with the money and resources available to put together an in-state team. Tinkle has done it for Tres and he and two other kids on the team are getting D1 attention. I think if more parents were able to put together teams more kids would be given opportunities.

2. It has already been mentioned, but cutting scholarships from 15 to 13 has really hurt the Montana boys. It makes it less likely that us or MSU will take a chance on a local kid.

3. This had been mentioned too, but football has taken over in this state. Both schools have packed stadiums and generate tons of excitement for every game. Between the two schools there are 126 scholarships available compared to 26 for basketball. Football can also break those down into partials but basketball can not. Athletic kids have a better chance of making it in football.

4. Justified or not Tinkle has a reputation of not liking Montana kids. I am a big fan and supporter of his but I am starting to lose this argument when I have it. When facts like these are thrown in my face I have little response...In 8 years he has given 2 MT kids scholarships. One was a 7 foot tall legacy and the other is on the end of the bench and has never been given a chance. Ryan Edwards wanted to be a Griz, but he had offers from Gonzaga, Washington State and Boise State before Tinkle bothered to offer him. At that point it is pretty easy for a kid to drop is allegiance when a top 25 team shows you more love than your favorite team. In Tinkle's defense he did just sign a Montana kid for next year, but 3 in 9 years is not much to brag about.

If my count is right I think we have 8 Montana kids currently on D1 rosters. Half of those are walk-ons but they have made the team. Only one of those kids is a Senior and none are Juniors so with the coming classes that number is likely to grow to double digits. I am not sure if that is that low of a number. If we were a city in California with a million people in it how many D1 kids would we be expected to have? (not trying to be snooty with that question, really just asking because I am not sure)

I will eat my hat if Ryan Edwards ever plays a minute of Division I BB.

 

[Potomac Griz]

I will eat my hat if Ryan Edwards ever plays a minute of Division I BB.

He had 13 points and 3 rebounds in 14 minutes of action against Simon Frasier earlier this year. Box score is here.

Sounds like from this article he may end up getting some minutes.

In addition to the play of Dower and Karnowski, Few also seemed pleased with the performance of another frontcourt player, Ryan Edwards. The freshman center finished with 13 points on 6-of-7 shooting.

“I thought he did a nice job,” Few said. “He finished plays at the basket, scored with both hands, plugged the lane decent. He was like that the first week of practice and then he tailed off considerably these last few weeks, so it was nice to see. We may need him to play some minutes.”

 

[AllWeatherFan]

I will eat my hat if Ryan Edwards ever plays a minute of Division I BB.

Ketchup or mustard?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I will eat my hat if Ryan Edwards ever plays a minute of Division I BB.

Ketchup or mustard?

Agreed. Edwards will be forced into action unless the Zags want to go with a 5 guard lineup when Dower and Karno inevitably wind up with 28 fouls apiece in 20% of the games this year.

 

[temp]

Clearly, we as a fan base do not help the in-state kids any. Edwards ended up with 5 offers from D1 schools and is going to play as a true fr. for a top 25 team and yet there are people that still think he can't play.
Out of state kids are largely unknown to us. We see a youtube video, read some stats and assume that because he is being recruited by us and others that he must be a good player. We sign him and we start throwing around phrases like "he's going to be a stud". Having never watched them play a game we don't see their short comings. We can't compare them to the other kids they play against, so they receive the benefit of the doubt.
We do get to see the in-state kids. We have a tendency to think that because they are being recruited by D1 schools they should be putting up 40 points a game. We are told that basketball in Montana is just not any good, so if a kid doesn't dominate every high school game he can't possible be worthy of playing at the next level. It's not hard to find nay-sayers for every D1 kid we have produced in the last 10 or 15 years, Edwards is just the most recent. It's time to give more credit to the basketball players in this state and believe that if one is being recruited for any level that he must have skills that the paid professionals (coaches) believe will carry over.

 

[Griz1]

Summer basketball camps are not being run for no reason. Coaches are aided in their recruiting because they see players' development and participate against the players in our own program. It gives them a great feel for the ability and potential of each participant. Parents who feel that their kid has some ability and potential also send their kids to the camps to enable the coaches to see them and get to know them in hopes of obtaining a future scholarship offer. Kids enjoy the chance to learn, to compete and to get to know the University players and coaches. All in all Montana coaches have a distinct advantage in seeing, knowing and evaluating Montana players. I don't think any player that has been recruited by a division 1 school out of Montana is an unknown to any Montana coach. The fact is some of them just want to go elsewhere.

 

[temp]

I know Tinkle tried to recruit Josh Huestis from Great Falls. I think if a kid is offered a ride to Stanford vs Montana that is where he goes. Wayne likes Montana kids and to insinuate otherwise is not accurate. That being said with 13 scholarships a coach has to take who he thinks is going to be the best player. Criswell was a walk-on who earned a scholarship. To imply Emerson has never been given a chance is not correct either. He is a good kid who earned his scholarship. It was not given to him because he was from Montana.

I would not be surprised if we didn't get Tinkle's son either. Does that mean he doesn't like Montana kids? I don't think so and I hope we do get him.

Forgot to address you in the last post... I have never met Tinkle but I have always viewed him as a stand up guy. I don't think he is using Emerson in some sinister plot and having been to all of the scrimmages that Emerson has participated in I think he is more than worthy of having a scholarship.
After the first 10 minutes of the L&C game through the U of MN game we played basically 70 minutes straight of poor, uninspired basketball. We couldn't find a 5 or 6 minute stretch in there to put Emerson in and see what he can or can not do? During Tinkle's tenure he has thrown every freshman or transfer in the game very early in the season, usually in the first game. Which I think is a great practice. Put them in and see what they bring to the table. Emerson is the only one I can think of that he has not done that with and has yet to do it this year, his second of eligibility. That is what I was referring to with not having been given a chance.
As I said, I like Tinkle and I assume he must have some plan for Emerson. Just pointing out something that has been pointed out to me.

 

[Griz1]

temp I don't understand why Emerson has had no time either but trust the coaches. I don't know if you remember K.C. McGowan but he was stuck on the bench and then got in in a hopeless situation at Montana State (if I remember correctly) and lit it up. From then on he played a significant role in Grizzly basketball. Some guys are practice players, some guys are practice players and gamers, and some guys are just gamers. K.C. was a gamer. He was also a player and person I really enjoyed being around.

Maybe Emerson could be like that. I just don't know but your commets are appreciated.

 

[grizophile]

I will eat my hat if Ryan Edwards ever plays a minute of Division I BB.

He had 13 points and 3 rebounds in 14 minutes of action against Simon Frasier earlier this year. Box score is here.

Sounds like from this article he may end up getting some minutes.

In addition to the play of Dower and Karnowski, Few also seemed pleased with the performance of another frontcourt player, Ryan Edwards. The freshman center finished with 13 points on 6-of-7 shooting.

“I thought he did a nice job,” Few said. “He finished plays at the basket, scored with both hands, plugged the lane decent. He was like that the first week of practice and then he tailed off considerably these last few weeks, so it was nice to see. We may need him to play some minutes.”

I will shut up now and I have a very small hat......pass the mustard!

 

[grizindabox]

The GU - Simon Fraser game was an exibition...does not even count.

Also, GU seems to have no issue with playing small, heck, they have signed 3 kids to LOI for next season...all are guards