Missoula Hellgate Is Best MT High School Team I've Ever Seen

[UncleRico]

12, how many times have you seen Hardin play?

Rico, how many times have you taken a high school team to the MSU or UM summer camps? Same question for 12?

Once to Griz camp. It was well run but almost exclusively Missoula area. I watched Hardin play once live this year. Another game a buddy sent to me on hudl. Last year I saw them a bunch. And they have almost everyone back. They win Class A easily last year if Famous Left Hand dosen't get hurt. He belongs in conversation with the legendary Native American players. This group they have had the last three years is truly exceptional. I am not trying to say Hellgate is not because they are. But Hardin would not be intimidated or back down. They might lose but no way they get blown out. I know they would beat Billings West and all those around hoops in Billings would probably agree. Even West fans.

 

[Spanky2]

I haven’t seen Hellgate play. It sounds like they are an excellent team. It would be interesting to see them compete in a regional or national tournament to actually measure their skills against teams outside of Montana.

 

[UncleRico]

12, how many times have you seen Hardin play?

Rico, how many times have you taken a high school team to the MSU or UM summer camps? Same question for 12?

Once to Griz camp. It was well run but almost exclusively Missoula area. I watched Hardin play once live this year. Another game a buddy sent to me on hudl. Last year I saw them a bunch. And they have almost everyone back. They win Class A easily last year if Famous Left Hand dosen't get hurt. He belongs in conversation with the legendary Native American players. This group they have had the last three years is truly exceptional. I am not trying to say Hellgate is not because they are. But Hardin would not be intimidated or back down. They might lose but no way they get blown out. I know they would beat Billings West and all those around hoops in Billings would probably agree. Even West fans.

Just to follow up I texted a good friend that coaches on one of Billings high school staffs. I asked him if any of the Billings AA teams would beat Hardin. His response was " I don't think so..I think Hellgate maybe is the only team that could beat them if they are healthy." and he emphasized the maybe.

 

[Spanky2]

Hellgate could win, but it won’t be easy as they will be introduced to a style of basketball that only Indian teams play.

 

[UMFan12]

12, how many times have you seen Hardin play?

Rico, how many times have you taken a high school team to the MSU or UM summer camps? Same question for 12?

Once to Griz camp. It was well run but almost exclusively Missoula area. I watched Hardin play once live this year. Another game a buddy sent to me on hudl. Last year I saw them a bunch. And they have almost everyone back. They win Class A easily last year if Famous Left Hand dosen't get hurt. He belongs in conversation with the legendary Native American players. This group they have had the last three years is truly exceptional. I am not trying to say Hellgate is not because they are. But Hardin would not be intimidated or back down. They might lose but no way they get blown out. I know they would beat Billings West and all those around hoops in Billings would probably agree. Even West fans.

Class A or Class B, nobody cares. Hellgate by 30 plus is being kind. As for the UM camp being Missoula area only. CMR, Great Falls High, Wenatchee WA, 2 teams from Canada along with Sandpoint were there at the tourney I was referring to.

 

[Spanky2]

If Hellgate wins AA and Hardin A, it would be fun to see what team wins 2 out of 3.

 

[PlayerRep]

Hellgate beat Skyview by 9 and West by 13, or vice versa. 12 said Hellgate would beat Hardin by 30. I assume 12 hasn't seen Hardin play. Rico says Hardin would give Hellgate a game, and says that even coaches in the east would agree that Hardin would be all the Billings AA schools.

What gives?

I know Rico has been a MT high school basketball and football coach, including head coach, for 25 or so years.

12? Your credentials?

 

[anchorage ak]

Hellgate could win, but it won’t be easy as they will be introduced to a style of basketball that only Indian teams play.

 

[UMFan12]

Hellgate could win, but it won’t be easy as they will be introduced to a style of basketball that only Indian teams play.

Which usually means “plays no defense”. Again I’ll take the team with two D1 commits as well as a number of other possible college players. Plus a system with a coach who knows how to implement tried and true defensive strategy.

So people do have brains around here

 

[IdaGriz01]

Hellgate could win, but it won’t be easy as they will be introduced to a style of basketball that only Indian teams play.

Which usually means “plays no defense”. Again I’ll take the team with two D1 commits as well as a number of other possible college players. Plus a system with a coach who knows how to implement tried and true defensive strategy.

So people do have brains around here

Have not seen either team, so I cannot speak to the comparative talent. But I gather the crux may come down to all-out offense versus structured D with conventional O. That I have seen and, in my experience, the result often turns on how the game is called. If the refs blow their whistles at every bit of contact, making it hard on the defense, and the all-out O team can make its freebies ... the O-oriented team can win even if they don't have quite as much talent. But if the refs let the defensive players hand-check, body-up, and so on ... the all-out O team is going to have a lot of trouble.

 

[UncleRico]

Hellgate could win, but it won’t be easy as they will be introduced to a style of basketball that only Indian teams play.

Which usually means “plays no defense”. Again I’ll take the team with two D1 commits as well as a number of other possible college players. Plus a system with a coach who knows how to implement tried and true defensive strategy.

So people do have brains around here

Have not seen either team, so I cannot speak to the comparative talent. But I gather the crux may come down to all-out offense versus structured D with conventional O. That I have seen and, in my experience, the result often turns on how the game is called. If the refs blow their whistles at every bit of contact, making it hard on the defense, and the all-out O team can make its freebies ... the O-oriented team can win even if they don't have quite as much talent. But if the refs let the defensive players hand-check, body-up, and so on ... the all-out O team is going to have a lot of trouble.

No disrespect towards any of you but I think you are all making an over generalization of Native American hoops in general. The good teams from reservation schools are not undisciplined at all. They play at a faster pace and they play hard on defense and create a lot of turnovers. They have structure but they just push the ball. This Hardin team is not what a lot of you are thinking. They are more physical and more disciplined than most teams they play. They don't just "roll out the ball" and go. They are really well coached. They have a really effective full court zone press and they have sets on offense that put the ball in Famous Left Hand's "hands" and he can score and pass. The team that plays them the best is Livingston. They are a really well coached team and will hold the ball for 3 minutes. And Livingston is next up for them at tourney. Should be a good game.

 

[garizzalies]

I was always told the best MT HS team was the 1934 Anaconda team. I believe they won state that year in the big 32. And I think that was the last time Anaconda won it all in boys BB.
They were the original “fab 5.” Actually, they were called the “wonder-five.”
I have not been able to confirm this but I was told all five of them went on to play, and eventually start, for the Griz. If true, it would be hard to beat 5 D1’s all on one team.

 

[UMFan12]

Which usually means “plays no defense”. Again I’ll take the team with two D1 commits as well as a number of other possible college players. Plus a system with a coach who knows how to implement tried and true defensive strategy.

So people do have brains around here

Have not seen either team, so I cannot speak to the comparative talent. But I gather the crux may come down to all-out offense versus structured D with conventional O. That I have seen and, in my experience, the result often turns on how the game is called. If the refs blow their whistles at every bit of contact, making it hard on the defense, and the all-out O team can make its freebies ... the O-oriented team can win even if they don't have quite as much talent. But if the refs let the defensive players hand-check, body-up, and so on ... the all-out O team is going to have a lot of trouble.

No disrespect towards any of you but I think you are all making an over generalization of Native American hoops in general. The good teams from reservation schools are not undisciplined at all. They play at a faster pace and they play hard on defense and create a lot of turnovers. They have structure but they just push the ball. This Hardin team is not what a lot of you are thinking. They are more physical and more disciplined than most teams they play. They don't just "roll out the ball" and go. They are really well coached. They have a really effective full court zone press and they have sets on offense that put the ball in Famous Left Hand's "hands" and he can score and pass. The team that plays them the best is Livingston. They are a really well coached team and will hold the ball for 3 minutes. And Livingston is next up for them at tourney. Should be a good game.

No offense, but how do you expect that a team that has close tight games with Livingston is about to come and hang for 4 quarters against a team that can beat Sentinel by 30?

 

[PlayerRep]

So people do have brains around here

Have not seen either team, so I cannot speak to the comparative talent. But I gather the crux may come down to all-out offense versus structured D with conventional O. That I have seen and, in my experience, the result often turns on how the game is called. If the refs blow their whistles at every bit of contact, making it hard on the defense, and the all-out O team can make its freebies ... the O-oriented team can win even if they don't have quite as much talent. But if the refs let the defensive players hand-check, body-up, and so on ... the all-out O team is going to have a lot of trouble.

No disrespect towards any of you but I think you are all making an over generalization of Native American hoops in general. The good teams from reservation schools are not undisciplined at all. They play at a faster pace and they play hard on defense and create a lot of turnovers. They have structure but they just push the ball. This Hardin team is not what a lot of you are thinking. They are more physical and more disciplined than most teams they play. They don't just "roll out the ball" and go. They are really well coached. They have a really effective full court zone press and they have sets on offense that put the ball in Famous Left Hand's "hands" and he can score and pass. The team that plays them the best is Livingston. They are a really well coached team and will hold the ball for 3 minutes. And Livingston is next up for them at tourney. Should be a good game.

No offense, but how do you expect that a team that has close tight games with Livingston is about to come and hang for 4 quarters against a team that can beat Sentinel by 30?

Maybe because, unlike you, he has seen both teams play this year, and he's been a high school coach in MT for 25 years.

No offense to you, but how can you have an informed opinion if you have never seen either team play?

Note that I haven't seen Hardin play and have not expressed any opinion on the subject.

 

[UMFan12]

Have not seen either team, so I cannot speak to the comparative talent. But I gather the crux may come down to all-out offense versus structured D with conventional O. That I have seen and, in my experience, the result often turns on how the game is called. If the refs blow their whistles at every bit of contact, making it hard on the defense, and the all-out O team can make its freebies ... the O-oriented team can win even if they don't have quite as much talent. But if the refs let the defensive players hand-check, body-up, and so on ... the all-out O team is going to have a lot of trouble.

No disrespect towards any of you but I think you are all making an over generalization of Native American hoops in general. The good teams from reservation schools are not undisciplined at all. They play at a faster pace and they play hard on defense and create a lot of turnovers. They have structure but they just push the ball. This Hardin team is not what a lot of you are thinking. They are more physical and more disciplined than most teams they play. They don't just "roll out the ball" and go. They are really well coached. They have a really effective full court zone press and they have sets on offense that put the ball in Famous Left Hand's "hands" and he can score and pass. The team that plays them the best is Livingston. They are a really well coached team and will hold the ball for 3 minutes. And Livingston is next up for them at tourney. Should be a good game.

No offense, but how do you expect that a team that has close tight games with Livingston is about to come and hang for 4 quarters against a team that can beat Sentinel by 30?

Maybe because, unlike you, he has seen both teams play this year, and he's been a high school coach in MT for 25 years.

No offense to you, but how can you have an informed opinion if you have never seen either team play?

Note that I haven't seen Hardin play and have not expressed any opinion on the subject.

Didn’t think it’d have to come to this. The 2nd best team in AA west is Sentinel, who Hellgate beat by 30. Hellgate is 2 classes above anybody in Montana. Famous Lefthand may be good, but Rollie is giving him at the very LEAST 40.

 

[UncleRico]

So people do have brains around here

Have not seen either team, so I cannot speak to the comparative talent. But I gather the crux may come down to all-out offense versus structured D with conventional O. That I have seen and, in my experience, the result often turns on how the game is called. If the refs blow their whistles at every bit of contact, making it hard on the defense, and the all-out O team can make its freebies ... the O-oriented team can win even if they don't have quite as much talent. But if the refs let the defensive players hand-check, body-up, and so on ... the all-out O team is going to have a lot of trouble.

No disrespect towards any of you but I think you are all making an over generalization of Native American hoops in general. The good teams from reservation schools are not undisciplined at all. They play at a faster pace and they play hard on defense and create a lot of turnovers. They have structure but they just push the ball. This Hardin team is not what a lot of you are thinking. They are more physical and more disciplined than most teams they play. They don't just "roll out the ball" and go. They are really well coached. They have a really effective full court zone press and they have sets on offense that put the ball in Famous Left Hand's "hands" and he can score and pass. The team that plays them the best is Livingston. They are a really well coached team and will hold the ball for 3 minutes. And Livingston is next up for them at tourney. Should be a good game.

No offense, but how do you expect that a team that has close tight games with Livingston is about to come and hang for 4 quarters against a team that can beat Sentinel by 30?

Livingston is a pretty good team. They will hold the ball to stay close. Would Hellgate hold the ball? Didn't Sentinel just lose to Big Sky? There is not as big of difference between the good teams in Class A and the good teams in Class AA as you think. The year in and year out games that Billings Central and Laurel play against Billings AA schools are usually competitive. Or look at Butte playing Butte Central and Dillion year in and year out. Or when Columbia Falls had their good run a few years ago and they would roll Kalispell schools. The Class A schools around Missoula haven't been great so you might not get to see that in person. But I have watched this Hardin team for last three years. They are a special group.

 

[Mousegriz]

No disrespect towards any of you but I think you are all making an over generalization of Native American hoops in general. The good teams from reservation schools are not undisciplined at all. They play at a faster pace and they play hard on defense and create a lot of turnovers. They have structure but they just push the ball. This Hardin team is not what a lot of you are thinking. They are more physical and more disciplined than most teams they play. They don't just "roll out the ball" and go. They are really well coached. They have a really effective full court zone press and they have sets on offense that put the ball in Famous Left Hand's "hands" and he can score and pass. The team that plays them the best is Livingston. They are a really well coached team and will hold the ball for 3 minutes. And Livingston is next up for them at tourney. Should be a good game.

No offense, but how do you expect that a team that has close tight games with Livingston is about to come and hang for 4 quarters against a team that can beat Sentinel by 30?

Maybe because, unlike you, he has seen both teams play this year, and he's been a high school coach in MT for 25 years.

No offense to you, but how can you have an informed opinion if you have never seen either team play?

Note that I haven't seen Hardin play and have not expressed any opinion on the subject.

Didn’t think it’d have to come to this. The 2nd best team in AA west is Sentinel, who Hellgate beat by 30. Hellgate is 2 classes above anybody in Montana. Famous Lefthand may be good, but Rollie is giving him at the very LEAST 40.

Sentinel lost to the last place Western AA team at home last week. Sentinel and Hellgate play again tonight.

Not sure why this has gone three pages.........the all knowing PR put any debate to rest when he made the initial post after he went to his first HS game in 10 years!

 

[IdaGriz01]

I was always told the best MT HS team was the 1934 Anaconda team. I believe they won state that year in the big 32. And I think that was the last time Anaconda won it all in boys BB.
They were the original “fab 5.” Actually, they were called the “wonder-five.”
I have not been able to confirm this but I was told all five of them went on to play, and eventually start, for the Griz. If true, it would be hard to beat 5 D1’s all on one team.

Results of some research: The 1934 Anaconda BBall team missed an undefeated regular season by one game, which was considered an upset. They then largely walked through the state championship. The names I could find who went on to play college BBall at UM were: Miller, Chumrau, Thomson, and Lazetich. According to clippings I found, a fifth member of that team, Devich, went on the play for Creighton. Other scorers on the 1934 team were Marinkovich and Vaugh. I couldn't find out whether or not they played in college. But that was clearly one hell of a team. (Unfortunately, the box scores and rosters I found did not give the first names.)

 

[Spanky2]

Hellgate could win, but it won’t be easy as they will be introduced to a style of basketball that only Indian teams play.

Which usually means “plays no defense”. Again I’ll take the team with two D1 commits as well as a number of other possible college players. Plus a system with a coach who knows how to implement tried and true defensive strategy.

That comment”plays no defense” tells me you haven’t seen a good Indian team play basketball.

 

[Washgrizfan1]

No offense, but how do you expect that a team that has close tight games with Livingston is about to come and hang for 4 quarters against a team that can beat Sentinel by 30?

Maybe because, unlike you, he has seen both teams play this year, and he's been a high school coach in MT for 25 years.

No offense to you, but how can you have an informed opinion if you have never seen either team play?

Note that I haven't seen Hardin play and have not expressed any opinion on the subject.

Didn’t think it’d have to come to this. The 2nd best team in AA west is Sentinel, who Hellgate beat by 30. Hellgate is 2 classes above anybody in Montana. Famous Lefthand may be good, but Rollie is giving him at the very LEAST 40.

Sentinel lost to the last place Western AA team at home last week. Sentinel and Hellgate play again tonight.

Not sure why this has gone three pages.........the all knowing PR put any debate to rest when he made the initial post after he went to his first HS game in 10 years!

Are you wanting to fight with someone over whether a particular team is the best they ever saw?