Missoula College add FB

[wbtfg]

Ok......Cool man.


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[tnt]

Nope, NOPE! This thread shows how idiotic Griz fans are. They don't give a damn about the mission of education, esp. that of lower income students. Far as that goes, all of MT cares only about viability of the universities (and prestige), rather than valuing the contribution of 2-year institutions to this state. All 2-year institutions in this state should be comprehensive in offerings, meaning their own liberal arts progams, not only vocational programs.

The BoR should lay down the law against this crap!

They do offer an associate. What's been cut is the vocational programs.

 

[77matcat]

https://www.princetonreview.com/schools/1023800/college/montana-state-university

Search your favorite school. Carroll and Tech do admit a smaller % of those who wish to attend.

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[BadlandsGrizFan]

What is Saracini enrolled in at Tech? Rumor was both UM and MSU wanted him but couldn't get him into school for grades.

No idea, but minimum scores to enter used to be higher at Tech, than at either MSU or UM. I knew plenty of drop outs at Tech, that later went to the other two schools and excelled, as classes were so much easier.

Yes, Saudi Arabia sent some of its "finest" to learn Petroleum Engineering at Montana Tech -- it's reputation is "World Class" -- and their "finest" found the curriculum so difficult that 35 of them (!!!) organized a cheating ring for tests. They got caught, and as usual with Engstrom, political correctness governed, and so the public never even knew about the scandal.

I do not know whether UM bought them all first class or regular class airfare home.

Au contraire. This story was covered pretty extensively over the summer. Don't recall it being reported that Engstrom was involved. Tech Chancellor was front and center.


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Ya that was pretty bad....they also tried intimidating the instructors.....

Sounds like the should have been given an Anatomy of the Berkley Pit 101 course

 

[fanofzoo]

Tech has found a very nice niche that has allowed them to be mentioned in National Rankings in metrics such as ROI, placement rates, and beginning salary.

UM ranks among the top 100 Ag schools in the world; MSU does not.

"Forestry" is considered an "ag."

I'd love to see the ad for that, but I doubt anyone in Main Hall even is aware of it. It's all about pine beetles, worrying about a cyclical forest epidemic that ended five years ago.

Please see it privately for it is/was one of the worst ads ever by the U. IMHO

 

[Grizzly Oredigger]

I believe Tech and Carroll have more difficult admissions standards than either UM or MSU. At least they are admitting kids that typically have higher grades and scores.

Tech has found a very nice niche that has allowed them to be mentioned in National Rankings in metrics such as ROI, placement rates, and beginning salary.

Tech, UM, MSU, MSUB, Western, etc. all have same admission criteria.

Carroll is holistic admission.


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This might be true now, as all the schools are under either UM or MSU, but it my day - it was not. It was by far harder to get accepted at Tech then UM, plus the drop out rate at Tech was phenomenal. I know a half dozen students that washed out at Tech in Geological Engineering, and went to either MSU or UM - and excelled in their Geology departments. in fact two of them made the Dean's list.

Had a professor once, Hugh Dresser, who for those that went to Tech probably know. He told me that 30 years later I would remember his classes more than the guy down the hall I was earning A's from....despite the fact that I was earning C's in Dresser's classes. You know what? He was right.....I still remember his tests, his classes, his lectures...and some of the other classes I cant remember a dang thing about.

Why anyone would choose Bozeman over Tech for Engineering is beyond me...

 

['68griz]

I believe Tech and Carroll have more difficult admissions standards than either UM or MSU. At least they are admitting kids that typically have higher grades and scores.

Tech has found a very nice niche that has allowed them to be mentioned in National Rankings in metrics such as ROI, placement rates, and beginning salary.

Tech, UM, MSU, MSUB, Western, etc. all have same admission criteria.

Carroll is holistic admission.


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This might be true now, as all the schools are under either UM or MSU, but it my day - it was not. It was by far harder to get accepted at Tech then UM, plus the drop out rate at Tech was phenomenal. I know a half dozen students that washed out at Tech in Geological Engineering, and went to either MSU or UM - and excelled in their Geology departments. in fact two of them made the Dean's list.

Had a professor once, Hugh Dresser, who for those that went to Tech probably know. He told me that 30 years later I would remember his classes more than the guy down the hall I was earning A's from....despite the fact that I was earning C's in Dresser's classes. You know what? He was right.....I still remember his tests, his classes, his lectures...and some of the other classes I cant remember a dang thing about.

Why anyone would choose Bozeman over Tech for Engineering is beyond me...

Both my daughter and my son-in-law have engineering degrees from Tech, and have never had trouble getting an excellent job.

 

[grizpack]

I like Butte, and would have no trouble living there. However, younger kids don't have the same opinion. Bozeman is a cool place to live right now, in their opinion. But for education only, I am not sure why they would choose many other places than Tech.

 

[getgrizzy]

I like Butte, and would have no trouble living there. However, younger kids don't have the same opinion. Bozeman is a cool place to live right now, in their opinion. But for education only, I am not sure why they would choose many other places than Tech.

Both schools have engineering departments, but they only have one engineering degree that is the same - electrical. So it rarely comes down to picking one over the other.

 

[argh!]

No idea, but minimum scores to enter used to be higher at Tech, than at either MSU or UM. I knew plenty of drop outs at Tech, that later went to the other two schools and excelled, as classes were so much easier.

Yes, Saudi Arabia sent some of its "finest" to learn Petroleum Engineering at Montana Tech -- it's reputation is "World Class" -- and their "finest" found the curriculum so difficult that 35 of them (!!!) organized a cheating ring for tests. They got caught, and as usual with Engstrom, political correctness governed, and so the public never even knew about the scandal.

I do not know whether UM bought them all first class or regular class airfare home.

Au contraire. This story was covered pretty extensively over the summer. Don't recall it being reported that Engstrom was involved. Tech Chancellor was front and center.

That was the 2016 Saudi Cheating Scandal. The 2012 Saudi Cheating Scandal got virtually no coverage.

http://nypost.com/2015/06/22/wikileaks-saudis-shielded-students-from-us-cheating-scandal/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/23/higher-education-official-says-montana-tech-handled-saudi-cheating-scandal.html

sounds like the public was informed of the scandal in 2012, the saudi's footed the bill for the return flights of expelled students, and engstrom was not involved. it does not appear that the students were directly identified as saudi's at the time.

so anyway, you seem to have one or two 'facts' partially correct, and use them to insinuate engstrom's involvement and otherwise make shit up. as usual. quite the journalism role model you are. i'd say even right up there with gwen florio.

 

[grizpack]

I like Butte, and would have no trouble living there. However, younger kids don't have the same opinion. Bozeman is a cool place to live right now, in their opinion. But for education only, I am not sure why they would choose many other places than Tech.

Both schools have engineering departments, but they only have one engineering degree that is the same - electrical. So it rarely comes down to picking one over the other.

I thought they both offered the same, except Tech has petroleum and OSHA. My bad.

 

[UMGriz75]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/23/higher-education-official-says-montana-tech-handled-saudi-cheating-scandal.html

sounds like the public was informed of the scandal in 2012, the saudi's footed the bill for the return flights of expelled students, and engstrom was not involved. it does not appear that the students were directly identified as saudi's at the time.

so anyway, you seem to have one or two 'facts' partially correct, and use them to insinuate engstrom's involvement and otherwise make shit up. as usual. quite the journalism role model you are. i'd say even right up there with gwen florio.

Unlike you, who knew nothing about it, I have my facts on it. You don't. The Chancellors under UM in the system report to Engstrom. He was involved in that one. He signed off on it. The information about the 2012 scandal became public knowledge after the Wikileaks exposure of the emails. UM kept it "confidential" at the time; a secrecy identical to Engstrom's similar handling of the Saudi rape scandal at UM.

http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/ktvm/university-spokeman-montana-tech-chancellor-handled-cheating-scandal-appropriately_20160512140322104/10235566

Your view is consistent with your constant criticisms during the JJ trial, in which you constantly disputed my views and sources, and invariably sided with Florio. Irony that you now disparage your former hero, being the one who spent three months "making shit up."

 

[ordigger]

I like Butte, and would have no trouble living there. However, younger kids don't have the same opinion. Bozeman is a cool place to live right now, in their opinion. But for education only, I am not sure why they would choose many other places than Tech.

Both schools have engineering departments, but they only have one engineering degree that is the same - electrical. So it rarely comes down to picking one over the other.

I thought they both offered the same, except Tech has petroleum and OSHA. My bad.

Traditionally Tech had the earth science engineering programs:

Petroleum, Mining, Geological, Geophysical, Hydrological, Metallurgy, Chemical, etc. I do not recall them having an Electrical program.

MSU had the traditional engineering programs:

Civil, Electrical, Mechanical, Engineering.

I thought they both offered Engineering Science at one time, and Chemical but I was there 30 years ago....damn I'm getting old. I remember them adding Computer Science so they could attract more women. My freshman year, it was about 8 to 1, men to women. We spent a lot a time in the smaller towns bar hopping.

 

[grizpack]

Walkerville???

 

[argh!]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/23/higher-education-official-says-montana-tech-handled-saudi-cheating-scandal.html

sounds like the public was informed of the scandal in 2012, the saudi's footed the bill for the return flights of expelled students, and engstrom was not involved. it does not appear that the students were directly identified as saudi's at the time.

so anyway, you seem to have one or two 'facts' partially correct, and use them to insinuate engstrom's involvement and otherwise make shit up. as usual. quite the journalism role model you are. i'd say even right up there with gwen florio.

Unlike you, who knew nothing about it, I have my facts on it. You don't. The Chancellors under UM in the system report to Engstrom. He was involved in that one. He signed off on it. The information about the 2012 scandal became public knowledge after the Wikileaks exposure of the emails. UM kept it "confidential" at the time; a secrecy identical to Engstrom's similar handling of the Saudi rape scandal at UM.

http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/ktvm/university-spokeman-montana-tech-chancellor-handled-cheating-scandal-appropriately_20160512140322104/10235566

Your view is consistent with your constant criticisms during the JJ trial, in which you constantly disputed my views and sources, and invariably sided with Florio. Irony that you now disparage your former hero, being the one who spent three months "making shit up."

the article i linked clearly states it was reported in 2012, long before the wikileaks reports, but please don't address that - instead bring up all those pathetic hypothetical recreations of events you penned during the jj trial - during which my position was simply that there are only two people who know what happened, and despite your creepy-as-fuck fantasy recreations of various scenarios surrounding the event, you aren't one of them.

anyway, back to the 2012 issue. the article i posted said the issue was investigated and it was determined that montana tech administrators handled it appropriately. in the article they clearly state that the decisions were the chancellor's. i don't see any proof of your insinuation that engstrom signed off on it or had anything to do with the issue at all. can you?

 

[Grizbeer]

I like Butte, and would have no trouble living there. However, younger kids don't have the same opinion. Bozeman is a cool place to live right now, in their opinion. But for education only, I am not sure why they would choose many other places than Tech.

Both schools have engineering departments, but they only have one engineering degree that is the same - electrical. So it rarely comes down to picking one over the other.

http://www.mtech.edu/academics/mines/generalengineering/index.htm

?

DEGREE, PROGRAMS, & SPECIALIZATIONS

Montana Tech offers several undergraduate degrees in General Engineering:

B.S. in Civil Engineering: In addition to the general engineering core, this degree offers the student a specialization in the civil engineering areas of foundations and structures and surface water hydrology and hydraulics. Civil engineering graduates work in construction, design roads, bridges and water treatment facilities.
B.S. in Mechanical Engineering: This degree prepares the graduate for jobs in the broad field of mechanical engineering including power production and use, equipment design, manufacturing, mechanical system design, mechatronics and maintenance.
B.S. in Mechanical Engineering with a Welding Option: This option offers a sound education in welding processes, codes and standards requirements, nondestructive examination and welding metallurgy. With only 75 Welding Engineering graduates in the U.S. each year, this option offers exceptional job placement.

 

[UMGriz75]

the article i linked clearly states it was reported in 2012, long before the wikileaks reports, but please don't address that -

I provided the link, not you.

Where and when did you first read about it?

Be specific.

 

[UMGriz75]

This is the part that was not "known" by the public and was disclosed by the Wikileaks Memos:

The AP reported on a memo describing a Jan. 4, 2012, meeting between top Montana Tech administrators and Saudi diplomats at the Saudi embassy in Washington in which Chancellor Donald Blackketter reportedly suggested that the students be flown out of the United States. The memo says that a Saudi diplomat subsequently “issued travel tickets to those students … to return to the kingdom so they don't face jail or deportation by the American authorities.”

Another Saudi memo cited by the AP indicated that the employee who changed grades had accepted “gifts” in exchange. In an interview with the AP, Vice Chancellor of Academic Affairs Douglas Abbott said he recalled the gifts as being “small tokens of appreciation” and the employee did not accept money.

In a written statement provided to Inside Higher Ed, Blackketter described “innuendos or accusations that Montana Tech conspired to fly students out of the United States” as being false and suggested that the university had an obligation to inform the “sponsoring agency” in advance of the likelihood that the students would be punished.

“The visit Doug Abbott and I made to the sponsoring agencies was to inform the agencies of pending Montana Tech sanctions and to remind them that it was almost certain sanctions would be given,” Blackketter said. “Furthermore, we reminded them that when sanctions were imposed, the students’ SEVIS [Student and Exchange Visitor Information System] status would be terminated and students would be required to return to their home country. I informed the sponsoring agency that preparations for this action were needed. This visit to the sponsoring agency was even more critical because we determined the extensiveness of the grade changes only after students left for the holiday break, and many of the involved students were not on campus. We used all means available to promptly contact the students.”

Blackketter said he kept the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Department of Homeland Security and local police informed of completed and pending sanctions against students as the investigation unfolded over multiple weeks in late 2011. “While bribery is a crime, academic dishonesty is unethical, but not a criminal violation,” Blackketter wrote in his statement. “No students involved in the grade-change incident committed a crime in their academic violations (according to conclusions of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Homeland Security and Butte-Silver Bow law enforcement).”

The chancellor said that some of the students involved were expelled, others had their diplomas revoked, and others were allowed to return to the university, which is part of the University of Montana system.

Blackketter declined, through a spokeswoman, to answer questions following up on his written statement.

Tricia Bertram Gallant, a lecturer at the University of California at San Diego who studies academic integrity issues, said the case reminds her of one at Diablo Valley College a number of years back in which dozens of students reportedly paid bribes to student workers to change their grades. But generally she said this type of case is more common overseas in countries where corruption is more rampant.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/06/25/wikileaks-memo-sheds-new-light-2012-cheating-scandal-involving-saudi-students

None of "that" was reported to the general public except through Wikileaks.

 

[argh!]

the article i linked clearly states it was reported in 2012, long before the wikileaks reports, but please don't address that -

I provided the link, not you.

Where and when did you first read about it?

Be specific.

you posted a link - and so did i: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/23/hi ... andal.html

where and when did you first read about it?

 

[UMGriz75]

the article i linked clearly states it was reported in 2012, long before the wikileaks reports, but please don't address that -

I provided the link, not you.

Where and when did you first read about it?

Be specific.

you posted a link - and so did i: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/23/hi ... andal.html
where and when did you first read about it?

OK, don't answer the question, play parrot, but Jayzuz then, why don't you read your own link published in 2015?

The investigation was made public in 2012, but the memos showed for the first time the students were almost all Saudis and their government flew them out of the United States at the suggestion of Blackketter.