Miss direction by R Engstrom

[allgriz]

When you look at the total body of work for Jim O'Day while serving AD at the UM and what PFlu has accomplished in 2 years, I applaude both. Jim O'Day in my opinion is a huge loss. Lived, breathed, loved UM and it will hard to find the type of dedication he displayed AND he is a local talent who knows the people of the State of Montana. A class act that when you ask the athletes (not just football but all athletes, coaches, staff and alum) had their respect and was true leader with character. Pflu was put in a difficult position but one he loved and he was recruiting good athletes and people. Definately going in the right direction.
Now look at the body of work Mr. Engstrom has completed in his two years at the helm and who is responsible....nice miss direction. Mr. Engstrom needs to be accountable and cleaning of the house starts at the top!!!
In my opinion Jim O'Day and Pflu were not the problem but assets and of course will take the hit so Mr. Engstrom doesn't.

 

[getgrizzy]

When you look at the total body of work for Jim O'Day while serving AD at the UM and what PFlu has accomplished in 2 years, I applaude both. Jim O'Day in my opinion is a huge loss. Lived, breathed, loved UM and it will hard to find the type of dedication he displayed AND he is a local talent who knows the people of the State of Montana. A class act that when you ask the athletes (not just football but all athletes, coaches, staff and alum) had their respect and was true leader with character. Pflu was put in a difficult position but one he loved and he was recruiting good athletes and people. Definately going in the right direction.
Now look at the body of work Mr. Engstrom has completed in his two years at the helm and who is responsible....nice miss direction. Mr. Engstrom needs to be accountable and cleaning of the house starts at the top!!!
In my opinion Jim O'Day and Pflu were not the problem but assets and of course will take the hit so Mr. Engstrom doesn't.

i agree with everything you said about oday and pflu being good guys and loving their jobs, but the problem is that when they, especially pflu, were presented with issues that required the ability to know what to say and how to say it (represent u.m.) they showed that they were in way over their heads. they just didn't get it. when you're in a high profile position and you can't do that your boss can't trust you and you have to go.

o'day's main problem was that he wasn't able to get it across to either hauck or pflu that they needed to watch what they say. hauck couldn't handle the school paper, pflu made a major mistake when he thought he'd be a smart ass and talk about jj's high character.

 

[Gaeilge1]

So, the solution is to basically say nothing, like Engstrom has, and everything will be fine?!

 

[sweetleaf]

When you look at the total body of work for Jim O'Day while serving AD at the UM and what PFlu has accomplished in 2 years, I applaude both. Jim O'Day in my opinion is a huge loss. Lived, breathed, loved UM and it will hard to find the type of dedication he displayed AND he is a local talent who knows the people of the State of Montana. A class act that when you ask the athletes (not just football but all athletes, coaches, staff and alum) had their respect and was true leader with character. Pflu was put in a difficult position but one he loved and he was recruiting good athletes and people. Definately going in the right direction.
Now look at the body of work Mr. Engstrom has completed in his two years at the helm and who is responsible....nice miss direction. Mr. Engstrom needs to be accountable and cleaning of the house starts at the top!!!
In my opinion Jim O'Day and Pflu were not the problem but assets and of course will take the hit so Mr. Engstrom doesn't.

i agree with everything you said about oday and pflu being good guys and loving their jobs, but the problem is that when they, especially pflu, were presented with issues that required the ability to know what to say and how to say it (represent u.m.) they showed that they were in way over their heads. they just didn't get it. when you're in a high profile position and you can't do that your boss can't trust you and you have to go.

o'day's main problem was that he wasn't able to get it across to either hauck or pflu that they needed to watch what they say. hauck couldn't handle the school paper, pflu made a major mistake when he thought he'd be a smart ass and talk about jj's high character.

Okay, you make this sound like a communication problem, which is reason for attention. However, none of this sounds like grounds for dismissal. There are ways to handle trouble in communication/public relations... (get a mediator they are trending :ugeek....

Proud of my grizz... I like O'day and Pflugrad, and I like what they have done, and I was looking forward to what Pflu was gonna do with this seasons run.

There is a public aspect to this, but to keep a perspective and keep in mind these people were hired to manage athletics, and the rest should be handled on a learning curve (by everyone :wtf: ) as they/we are given a chance to 'get to know one another' in a specific arena - as long as they are meeting the requirements respective of their positions. Personally I have been enjoying the flavor or out teams under these men's talents and I am sorry to see them go.

My thoughts do go to who the hello this Engstrom is... now he worries me, and this makes me not trust him...

 

[AZGrizFan]

When you look at the total body of work for Jim O'Day while serving AD at the UM and what PFlu has accomplished in 2 years, I applaude both. Jim O'Day in my opinion is a huge loss. Lived, breathed, loved UM and it will hard to find the type of dedication he displayed AND he is a local talent who knows the people of the State of Montana. A class act that when you ask the athletes (not just football but all athletes, coaches, staff and alum) had their respect and was true leader with character. Pflu was put in a difficult position but one he loved and he was recruiting good athletes and people. Definately going in the right direction.
Now look at the body of work Mr. Engstrom has completed in his two years at the helm and who is responsible....nice miss direction. Mr. Engstrom needs to be accountable and cleaning of the house starts at the top!!!
In my opinion Jim O'Day and Pflu were not the problem but assets and of course will take the hit so Mr. Engstrom doesn't.

i agree with everything you said about oday and pflu being good guys and loving their jobs, but the problem is that when they, especially pflu, were presented with issues that required the ability to know what to say and how to say it (represent u.m.) they showed that they were in way over their heads. they just didn't get it. when you're in a high profile position and you can't do that your boss can't trust you and you have to go.

o'day's main problem was that he wasn't able to get it across to either hauck or pflu that they needed to watch what they say. hauck couldn't handle the school paper, pflu made a major mistake when he thought he'd be a smart ass and talk about jj's high character.

Okay, you make this sound like a communication problem, which is reason for attention. However, none of this sounds like grounds for dismissal. There are ways to handle trouble in communication/public relations... (get a mediator they are trending :ugeek....

Proud of my grizz... I like O'day and Pflugrad, and I like what they have done, and I was looking forward to what Pflu was gonna do with this seasons run.

There is a public aspect to this, but to keep a perspective and keep in mind these people were hired to manage athletics, and the rest should be handled on a learning curve (by everyone :wtf: ) as they/we are given a chance to 'get to know one another' in a specific arena - as long as they are meeting the requirements respective of their positions. Personally I have been enjoying the flavor or out teams under these men's talents and I am sorry to see them go.

It's a leadership problem, not a communications problem. O'Day is a great guy. Terrific. Pflu is a man's man. Super. But both failed MISERABLY when confronted with real challenges. O'Day should have put his foot down Hauck's throat when things started to unravel, and he should have put a bullet in Pflu when it became obvious it was a snowball rolling downhill. Sometimes (hell, MOST of the time) being a "great" guy isn't enough. You have to make the tough decisions and it appears that O'Day wasn't willing to do that. He stuck by his guy and Engstrom made him pay for that.

That might be the ONLY thing I respect about Engstrom right now.

 

[Grizbeer]

For what it is worth here is my perspective on this whole thing. First I have a senior in high school who has been accepted and plans to enroll at UM in the fall. However since being accepted and making the decision to attend UM these multiple allegations have surfaced, and frankly so have second thoughts about if UM is the best place for my child to go. While I would not have advocated for firing either Pflugrad or O'Day based on what little I know of the issues, the changes being made at UM have restored my faith in the University, and in Dr. Engstrom to get this mess cleaned up. Remember that in addition to Pflugrad and O'Day, Charles Couture, Dean of Students, is "retiring" and Mehrdad Kia, Associate Provost of International Studies has "stepped down". Just as with the O'Day and Pflugrad firing, UM denied these changes had anything to do with the rape allegations or how they were handled, just that it was about time for change.

As far as why Pflugrad and O'Day were fired, I don't have any inside information or real knowledge, but a picture is becoming clear to me, and to speculate I think you need to look no further than their reaction to getting fired to see why. Pflugrad's reaction was shock, anger and disbelief. He was in fact clueless that he could be fired for what was happening. His cluelessness was made obvious with his public comments about Jordan Johnson's character, pouring gasoline on a fire that was just getting put out by Jordan's lawyer, and resulting in a letter from the girl's attorney to the University and the Press. regardless of Jordan's innocence or guilt, Pflugrad should ave known better than to pour gasoline on a smoldering fire, especially when seemingly the whole forest is on fire. Pflugrad didn't "get it" then, and based on his post-firing comments he still doesn't get it. And if he doesn't get it, he can't be a catalyst for the change that needs to happen to stop these issues from occurring.

O'day's reaction has been that of the loyal professional, refusing to say anything negative about either the University or Dr. Engstrom or the process - LOYAL TO A FAULT - the same loyalty he showed to Pflugrad, and that fault, I believe is why he no longer is athletic director. In hind-sight it appears clear that Dr. Engstrom had doubts, probably since these issues first arose, about Pflugrad's ability to manage the football program and make the changes needed. Clearly O'Day, being loyal, has defended Pflugrad to the end, until it became clear to Dr. Engstrom that his instinct on Pflugrad's ability to make changes were correct, and further that Jim O'day, being loyal to his coach, would never make the change either. He was left with 2 choices - fire both of them, or let the problems continue. He chose to make changes to solve the problem.

Note that I have not made any judgement on guilt or innocence of Jordan Johnson, or any of the other players. Their guilt or innocence doesn't matter in this case. It was sensitivity to the issue, and dedication to change the culture that mattered, and in the end Pflugrad and O'Day's inability to make changing the culture the highest priority I believe that is why they lost their jobs.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Here's an idea. Why doesn't Engstrom plan to spend five minutes each with all 75,000 people who demand an explanation. Assuming he doesn't need any sleep, meal breaks or bathroom breaks, it would only take him 260 days to satisfy everybody's needs.

 

[AZGrizFan]

As far as why Pflugrad and O'Day were fired, I don't have any inside information or real knowledge, but a picture is becoming clear to me, and to speculate I think you need to look no further than their reaction to getting fired to see why. Pflugrad's reaction was shock, anger and disbelief. He was in fact clueless that he could be fired for what was happening. His cluelessness was made obvious with his public comments about Jordan Johnson's character, pouring gasoline on a fire that was just getting put out by Jordan's lawyer, and resulting in a letter from the girl's attorney to the University and the Press. regardless of Jordan's innocence or guilt, Pflugrad should ave known better than to pour gasoline on a smoldering fire, especially when seemingly the whole forest is on fire. Pflugrad didn't "get it" then, and based on his post-firing comments he still doesn't get it. And if he doesn't get it, he can't be a catalyst for the change that needs to happen to stop these issues from occurring.

O'day's reaction has been that of the loyal professional, refusing to say anything negative about either the University or Dr. Engstrom or the process - LOYAL TO A FAULT - the same loyalty he showed to Pflugrad, and that fault, I believe is why he no longer is athletic director. In hind-sight it appears clear that Dr. Engstrom had doubts, probably since these issues first arose, about Pflugrad's ability to manage the football program and make the changes needed. Clearly O'Day, being loyal, has defended Pflugrad to the end, until it became clear to Dr. Engstrom that his instinct on Pflugrad's ability to make changes were correct, and further that Jim O'day, being loyal to his coach, would never make the change either. He was left with 2 choices - fire both of them, or let the problems continue. He chose to make changes to solve the problem.

Note that I have not made any judgement on guilt or innocence of Jordan Johnson, or any of the other players. Their guilt or innocence doesn't matter in this case. It was sensitivity to the issue, and dedication to change the culture that mattered, and in the end Pflugrad and O'Day's inability to make changing the culture the highest priority I believe that is why they lost their jobs.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

1000% spot on. :thumb:

 

[Silvertip]

Here's an idea. Why doesn't Engstrom plan to spend five minutes each with all 75,000 people who demand an explanation. Assuming he doesn't need any sleep, meal breaks or bathroom breaks, it would only take him 260 days to satisfy everybody's needs.

Or, he might first begin by giving the missing explanation to at least one credible person who would get the word out to the rest of us... you are aware we have the electronic, print and social media, right?

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Here's an idea. Why doesn't Engstrom plan to spend five minutes each with all 75,000 people who demand an explanation. Assuming he doesn't need any sleep, meal breaks or bathroom breaks, it would only take him 260 days to satisfy everybody's needs.

Or, he might first begin by giving the missing explanation to at least one credible person who would get the word out to the rest of us... you are aware we have the electronic, print and social media, right?

You are not owed anything especially the day after an event like this.


I am sure if you dress your dolls up real pretty like.....and brew your best tea for the party in due time you will get the explanation and your instant gratification will be subdued........until the next time you feel entitled.

 

[clawman]

I have read many (too many) of the posts and have to wonder if this is not what happened.
Pres Engstrom wanted to clean up the program and adhere to the Code of Ethics which says no tolerance for offenses that blemish the appearance and reputation of the University. Going back to a couple of the player related incidences last year Phlu kind of blew that off. Like two players that were tazered sitting out the first quarter of a meaningless game, is a insult the the code of ethics. Phlu's actions in other situations were similar. Then when he gave glowing remarks of JJ during a rape investigation and allowed him back at practice. Another insult to the code and the University Pres if my first assumption is correct. It appears that was the last straw and the U took action. These are just two of numerous player related incidences that look bad for the athletic dept. While many of the posters on eGriz are outraged, I think many of the citizens of Missoula are outraged as well that it appears the players get away with everything. While the timing appears very awkward, if the Pres and board were serious about cleaning things up they had to take action while the window of opportunity was open.
Really sad for two men to get fired but they have to be held accountable for their actions or lack thereof.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Here's an idea. Why doesn't Engstrom plan to spend five minutes each with all 75,000 people who demand an explanation. Assuming he doesn't need any sleep, meal breaks or bathroom breaks, it would only take him 260 days to satisfy everybody's needs.

Or, he might first begin by giving the missing explanation to at least one credible person who would get the word out to the rest of us... you are aware we have the electronic, print and social media, right?

I'm pretty sure you can even buy a sense of humor online.

 

[Flathead Griz]

At the April 14th scrimmage, everyone should wear Griz gear with "Support Griz Athletics, Fire Engstrom"

 

[Growler1]

At the April 14th scrimmage, everyone should wear Griz gear with "Support Griz Athletics, Fire Engstrom"

You are an idiot

 

[Growler1]

For what it is worth here is my perspective on this whole thing. First I have a senior in high school who has been accepted and plans to enroll at UM in the fall. However since being accepted and making the decision to attend UM these multiple allegations have surfaced, and frankly so have second thoughts about if UM is the best place for my child to go. While I would not have advocated for firing either Pflugrad or O'Day based on what little I know of the issues, the changes being made at UM have restored my faith in the University, and in Dr. Engstrom to get this mess cleaned up. Remember that in addition to Pflugrad and O'Day, Charles Couture, Dean of Students, is "retiring" and Mehrdad Kia, Associate Provost of International Studies has "stepped down". Just as with the O'Day and Pflugrad firing, UM denied these changes had anything to do with the rape allegations or how they were handled, just that it was about time for change.

As far as why Pflugrad and O'Day were fired, I don't have any inside information or real knowledge, but a picture is becoming clear to me, and to speculate I think you need to look no further than their reaction to getting fired to see why. Pflugrad's reaction was shock, anger and disbelief. He was in fact clueless that he could be fired for what was happening. His cluelessness was made obvious with his public comments about Jordan Johnson's character, pouring gasoline on a fire that was just getting put out by Jordan's lawyer, and resulting in a letter from the girl's attorney to the University and the Press. regardless of Jordan's innocence or guilt, Pflugrad should ave known better than to pour gasoline on a smoldering fire, especially when seemingly the whole forest is on fire. Pflugrad didn't "get it" then, and based on his post-firing comments he still doesn't get it. And if he doesn't get it, he can't be a catalyst for the change that needs to happen to stop these issues from occurring.

O'day's reaction has been that of the loyal professional, refusing to say anything negative about either the University or Dr. Engstrom or the process - LOYAL TO A FAULT - the same loyalty he showed to Pflugrad, and that fault, I believe is why he no longer is athletic director. In hind-sight it appears clear that Dr. Engstrom had doubts, probably since these issues first arose, about Pflugrad's ability to manage the football program and make the changes needed. Clearly O'Day, being loyal, has defended Pflugrad to the end, until it became clear to Dr. Engstrom that his instinct on Pflugrad's ability to make changes were correct, and further that Jim O'day, being loyal to his coach, would never make the change either. He was left with 2 choices - fire both of them, or let the problems continue. He chose to make changes to solve the problem.

Note that I have not made any judgement on guilt or innocence of Jordan Johnson, or any of the other players. Their guilt or innocence doesn't matter in this case. It was sensitivity to the issue, and dedication to change the culture that mattered, and in the end Pflugrad and O'Day's inability to make changing the culture the highest priority I believe that is why they lost their jobs.

Pretty astute observation, I would say.

 

[Growler1]

When you look at the total body of work for Jim O'Day while serving AD at the UM and what PFlu has accomplished in 2 years, I applaude both. Jim O'Day in my opinion is a huge loss. Lived, breathed, loved UM and it will hard to find the type of dedication he displayed AND he is a local talent who knows the people of the State of Montana. A class act that when you ask the athletes (not just football but all athletes, coaches, staff and alum) had their respect and was true leader with character. Pflu was put in a difficult position but one he loved and he was recruiting good athletes and people. Definately going in the right direction.
Now look at the body of work Mr. Engstrom has completed in his two years at the helm and who is responsible....nice miss direction. Mr. Engstrom needs to be accountable and cleaning of the house starts at the top!!!
In my opinion Jim O'Day and Pflu were not the problem but assets and of course will take the hit so Mr. Engstrom doesn't.

i agree with everything you said about oday and pflu being good guys and loving their jobs, but the problem is that when they, especially pflu, were presented with issues that required the ability to know what to say and how to say it (represent u.m.) they showed that they were in way over their heads. they just didn't get it. when you're in a high profile position and you can't do that your boss can't trust you and you have to go.

o'day's main problem was that he wasn't able to get it across to either hauck or pflu that they needed to watch what they say. hauck couldn't handle the school paper, pflu made a major mistake when he thought he'd be a smart ass and talk about jj's high character.

Okay, you make this sound like a communication problem, which is reason for attention. However, none of this sounds like grounds for dismissal. There are ways to handle trouble in communication/public relations... (get a mediator they are trending :ugeek....

Proud of my grizz... I like O'day and Pflugrad, and I like what they have done, and I was looking forward to what Pflu was gonna do with this seasons run.

There is a public aspect to this, but to keep a perspective and keep in mind these people were hired to manage athletics, and the rest should be handled on a learning curve (by everyone :wtf: ) as they/we are given a chance to 'get to know one another' in a specific arena - as long as they are meeting the requirements respective of their positions. Personally I have been enjoying the flavor or out teams under these men's talents and I am sorry to see them go.

It's a leadership problem, not a communications problem. O'Day is a great guy. Terrific. Pflu is a man's man. Super. But both failed MISERABLY when confronted with real challenges. O'Day should have put his foot down Hauck's throat when things started to unravel, and he should have put a bullet in Pflu when it became obvious it was a snowball rolling downhill. Sometimes (hell, MOST of the time) being a "great" guy isn't enough. You have to make the tough decisions and it appears that O'Day wasn't willing to do that. He stuck by his guy and Engstrom made him pay for that.

That might be the ONLY thing I respect about Engstrom right now.

I have to agree once again. I get so sick of hearing about what a great guy O'Day is! Being a nice guy has ZERO to do with running the athletic department at UM! Jimmy Carter was a great guy, but we know how that turned out! Jeeeesh!

 

[m616s6e]

"He was left with 2 choices - fire both of them, or let the problems continue. He chose to make changes to solve the problem."

Wasn't there a more obvious third choice? Before ruining the careers of two class guys, how about simply announcing a no tolerance policy from the President's office? That would have been positive PR for the U and would have provided clear support for the athletic staff members who are caught in legal gray areas of student rights.

I doubt that anyone in Main Hall understands the legal implications of booting a student for "alleged" misconduct. Yet it was so easy to blame ODay and Pflugrad when issues arose.

 

[grizare#1]

"He was left with 2 choices - fire both of them, or let the problems continue. He chose to make changes to solve the problem."

Wasn't there a more obvious third choice? Before ruining the careers of two class guys, how about simply announcing a no tolerance policy from the President's office? That would have been positive PR for the U and would have provided clear support for the athletic staff members who are caught in legal gray areas of student rights.

I doubt that anyone in Main Hall understands the legal implications of booting a student for "alleged" misconduct. Yet it was so easy to blame ODay and Pflugrad when issues arose.

I could not agree more.
This whole thing is a perfect example of what is going wrong in this country, it seems wrong to expect someone to be held accountable for his or her own actions, but to find someone else to blame or take the fall.
So is the new policy that any Professor can be fired if a student that attends their class gets arrested or accused of breaking the law. Why not, it should not be a double standard. The Saudi student that was accused of rape, should not his teachers be held accountable??? FIRED!!!
I totally agree with a 100% zero tolerance policy, and that if a tuition supported student fails this then he or she should have to pay back all fees that were given them. Life is tough, being stupid makes it tougher.

 

[goatcreekgriz]

First, President Engstorm is accountable to the Board of Regents, students/faculty/employees/alumni of the University of Montana, and residents of Missoula -- not simply to football fans. Second, no one knows that the "third option" was not tried, maybe subtly and maybe not -- but some people just don't see the bigger picture. Finally, Dr. Engstrom has clearly demonstrated leadership here, he will be held accountable for his decisions, and he should be held accountable. The football program will rebound nicely but, most importantly, our university is demonstrating that integrity and circumspection will be core values in our athletic programs.

 

[behappp]

For what it is worth here is my perspective on this whole thing. First I have a senior in high school who has been accepted and plans to enroll at UM in the fall. However since being accepted and making the decision to attend UM these multiple allegations have surfaced, and frankly so have second thoughts about if UM is the best place for my child to go. While I would not have advocated for firing either Pflugrad or O'Day based on what little I know of the issues, the changes being made at UM have restored my faith in the University, and in Dr. Engstrom to get this mess cleaned up. Remember that in addition to Pflugrad and O'Day, Charles Couture, Dean of Students, is "retiring" and Mehrdad Kia, Associate Provost of International Studies has "stepped down". Just as with the O'Day and Pflugrad firing, UM denied these changes had anything to do with the rape allegations or how they were handled, just that it was about time for change.

As far as why Pflugrad and O'Day were fired, I don't have any inside information or real knowledge, but a picture is becoming clear to me, and to speculate I think you need to look no further than their reaction to getting fired to see why. Pflugrad's reaction was shock, anger and disbelief. He was in fact clueless that he could be fired for what was happening. His cluelessness was made obvious with his public comments about Jordan Johnson's character, pouring gasoline on a fire that was just getting put out by Jordan's lawyer, and resulting in a letter from the girl's attorney to the University and the Press. regardless of Jordan's innocence or guilt, Pflugrad should ave known better than to pour gasoline on a smoldering fire, especially when seemingly the whole forest is on fire. Pflugrad didn't "get it" then, and based on his post-firing comments he still doesn't get it. And if he doesn't get it, he can't be a catalyst for the change that needs to happen to stop these issues from occurring.

O'day's reaction has been that of the loyal professional, refusing to say anything negative about either the University or Dr. Engstrom or the process - LOYAL TO A FAULT - the same loyalty he showed to Pflugrad, and that fault, I believe is why he no longer is athletic director. In hind-sight it appears clear that Dr. Engstrom had doubts, probably since these issues first arose, about Pflugrad's ability to manage the football program and make the changes needed. Clearly O'Day, being loyal, has defended Pflugrad to the end, until it became clear to Dr. Engstrom that his instinct on Pflugrad's ability to make changes were correct, and further that Jim O'day, being loyal to his coach, would never make the change either. He was left with 2 choices - fire both of them, or let the problems continue. He chose to make changes to solve the problem.

Note that I have not made any judgement on guilt or innocence of Jordan Johnson, or any of the other players. Their guilt or innocence doesn't matter in this case. It was sensitivity to the issue, and dedication to change the culture that mattered, and in the end Pflugrad and O'Day's inability to make changing the culture the highest priority I believe that is why they lost their jobs.

Thanks Grizbeer for some well thought out views. You and your kid have definitely thought this through and I believe you are making a good decision. I know some faculty at UM and they have all said that they thought Engstrom was a good man and a good choice to lead the University. Not sure if I agree with how this situation has been handled or how it will all shake out, but it was obvious that something had to change.