Seriously don't understand why the Griz aren't even in the "other's receiving votes" category after their win over ucla...
http://www.midmajortop25.com/
http://www.midmajortop25.com/
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Mid Major Top 25
- Thread starter ozzie
- Start date
ilovethecats
Well-known member
please don't take this wrong because i'm a cat fan. and let me say that when the cats face ucla i think we're gonna get killed because we don't have anywhere near the size as you guys do...
but ucla wasn't that big of a win for you. they were horrible last year and will be again this year too. they won't be dancin' come march unless they have a miracle. basically it was a big win only because ucla is a big name. in most polls northern arizona is ahead of ucla!
so again, it's always a good thing when a big sky beats a pac-10 school. especially on the road. and it's nice when that team is ucla! but beating them isn't going to move you up the mid-major polls any. ucla ranks BEHIND all the best mid-majors!
but ucla wasn't that big of a win for you. they were horrible last year and will be again this year too. they won't be dancin' come march unless they have a miracle. basically it was a big win only because ucla is a big name. in most polls northern arizona is ahead of ucla!
so again, it's always a good thing when a big sky beats a pac-10 school. especially on the road. and it's nice when that team is ucla! but beating them isn't going to move you up the mid-major polls any. ucla ranks BEHIND all the best mid-majors!
Ashley Schaeffer
Well-known member
Hell, it might even be because the Bruins from the Golden Coast aren't considered a big boy top 25 team by anyone, thus rendering a victory over them expected at best and unremarkable at worst. Now, I don't believe this myself, pards, but I know that many do.
Potomac Griz
Well-known member
dub-foncy said:
Where exactly are you getting that? I've found nothing that indicates the Big Sky is as bad as you seem to think it is in Basketball. Last year the Big Sky was #18 (just above the Ohio Valley & Big West) out of 32 conferences. Sure it's not in the top 10, but in the middle of the pack isn't too bad for a mid-major conference.
I really think the Big Sky is improving too... Look at some of the recruits being brought in by many Big Sky teams and it's hard not to be hopeful for the future. I'm not big on the new teams joining the Big Sky for basketball...but hopefully they'll improve too.
ozzie said:
The Griz may warrant some votes over some of the teams that are getting votes, and some even that are in the top 25 in that mid major poll (seriously...Creighton?! They should have dropped out by now), but this early in the season the polls really don't mean squat anyway.
Before the win vs UCLA the Griz had 0 road wins, and only 2 division 1 wins. Both of those Div1 wins came against teams that are somewhat struggling and have no real good wins themselves. The UCLA win will give the Griz RPI a huge boost in the long run, but I can see why they haven't been on the radar of the Mid Major poll yet.
The losses the Griz have aren't "good" losses either yet unfortunately. Utah is semi-decent, but Nevada's only win so far is against the Griz..they are 1-7. Out of the 3 losses the loss to Portland is probably the "best" loss right now...but that still hurts since it was at home.
If the Griz are 7-3 or 6-4 after the CSF game on the 22nd (not counting the lower division games) and the Griz still aren't getting Mid Major notice, it'll be time to send some people at that site some "WTF?!" emails
EdwinTorres
Well-known member
Ashley Schaeffer said:
i am goin to have to agree with you Ashley. ther aint many teams on this continent that hav near the histry of that Bruins ball club. This was defenetely one of ther better wins.
ilovethecats
Well-known member
Growler1 said:
ummm....what part? that they were horrible last year? that they are gonna be bad this year? that they won't make the dance? that northern arizona is ranked above them? that they are ranked below all of the mid-majors in the top 25? those are all true. kansas probably knows that.
they played kansas very tough...no argument there. one game does not make a season. if it did you guys could expect to beat every team in the pac-10 by double digits. like i said, it was a good win. you did something the cats most likely won't do. but beating ucla won't move you up the mid-major ranks. and i could "tell that to kansas" if you want but there is no need as anyone who knows anything about college hoops already knows this....
:lol:
Potomac Griz
Well-known member
One quick note about rankings this early in the season.. RPI doesn't mean much yet. You have teams like UCF who in RPI are #13, and Nichols State who is #27 in RPI according to realtimerpi.com...but not cracking the top 25 in the polls yet.
RPI and SOS ratings are always quite a bit out of whack this early in the season. It's usually not until a couple weeks into the conference schedule that they start to actually make sense and teams start settling in to where they belong for RPI rating. When that happens its very unlikely that UCF will be in the top 15 and Nichols State will be anywhere near the top 25.
I really doubt NAU will end up ranked ahead of UCLA in RPI at the end of the season
RPI and SOS ratings are always quite a bit out of whack this early in the season. It's usually not until a couple weeks into the conference schedule that they start to actually make sense and teams start settling in to where they belong for RPI rating. When that happens its very unlikely that UCF will be in the top 15 and Nichols State will be anywhere near the top 25.
I really doubt NAU will end up ranked ahead of UCLA in RPI at the end of the season
ilovethecats
Well-known member
Dexter X said:
precisely. which is another reason that this win won't move you up the ranks this time of year.
but try telling that to kansas... :thumb:
Unfortunately, history doesn't count much when you start 3 sophomores, 1 junior, and 1 freshman and lose to a team that also is heavy on underclassmen.....UM had a nice road win, but to put things in perspective, UM lost at HOME to Portland who was blown out last night by U of Wash......sorry, I loved the Griz at Pauley but now they have to convince people it was no fluke...it was a great recruiting tool here on the left coast though...a great move by Tinks....EdwinTorres said:
It was a great win, but a 4-3 record wont get you in many polls. If we had beat Utah, Nevada, and still lost to Portland we might have scraped the surface at 6-1, but UCLA is down, Nevada is not good, and Utah is a little over .500. Certainly Portland losing that bad to Wash. isnt going to help the RPI either. It was still a good win, and one the guys will build confidance from. It was in no way as big as the Standford or Nevada wins of the past though, those guys were ranked teams!!!!
djollieballs
Well-known member
Dexter X said:
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html
BSC is the 6th worst conference in RPI as of this minute. I was off by one.
You KNOW last year was an anomaly, Dex. The modern Big Sky has never had three teams as good as UM, WSU, and UNC at the same time. Throw in MSU and PSU and it was an epic fluke.
We are most assuredly in a low major conference. We have NEVER had two bids to the tourney. Mid-major conferences get at least two bids.
Montana is knocking on the door of being a mid-major program, and WSU is certainly one, but the BSC sucks ass. It has REALLY sucked ass since the big two bailed almost 20 years ago.
It is now WAY worse with SUU and UND. But who cares right?
Potomac Griz
Well-known member
I actually think the Big Sky is improving. Last year gave me some hope that we'll continue to see improvement. Sac State had a big win against Oregon State last year, and the Big Sky did fairly well against some other Mid Major conferences (like the WCC for example).
Sure, last year the Big Sky was up compared to the previous years (but still lower than the 2005-2006 season). I think there are a lot of teams in the Big Sky making big improvements though going just by some of the recruits they've been getting. Check out some of the recruits that other teams in the Big Sky are bringing in..it's hard not to be somewhat encouraged by that.
While I'm happy to see the other teams bringing in some very good recruits, and really do think the Big Sky is improving.. I'm not too happy with the addition of UND and SUU to be honest...that will hurt the conference RPI initially quite a bit. I think they'll improve though too (I hope) eventually.
As for the RPI of the conference right now, as I said in an earlier post RPI this early in the season means nothing. Until it gets a couple/few weeks into the conference season, RPI will continue to be very inaccurate. Right now you have teams like Nichols State, with a record of 2-2 at #27, ahead of 8-1 Illinois, and 6-0 Louisville, and slightly behind North Carolina (#26).
Any guesses on how Nichols State would do against Illinois, Louisville or North Carolina? I'm guessing it wouldn't be pretty
Sure, last year the Big Sky was up compared to the previous years (but still lower than the 2005-2006 season). I think there are a lot of teams in the Big Sky making big improvements though going just by some of the recruits they've been getting. Check out some of the recruits that other teams in the Big Sky are bringing in..it's hard not to be somewhat encouraged by that.
While I'm happy to see the other teams bringing in some very good recruits, and really do think the Big Sky is improving.. I'm not too happy with the addition of UND and SUU to be honest...that will hurt the conference RPI initially quite a bit. I think they'll improve though too (I hope) eventually.
As for the RPI of the conference right now, as I said in an earlier post RPI this early in the season means nothing. Until it gets a couple/few weeks into the conference season, RPI will continue to be very inaccurate. Right now you have teams like Nichols State, with a record of 2-2 at #27, ahead of 8-1 Illinois, and 6-0 Louisville, and slightly behind North Carolina (#26).
Any guesses on how Nichols State would do against Illinois, Louisville or North Carolina? I'm guessing it wouldn't be pretty
mtgrizrule
Well-known member
To be honest, I honestly feel Montana and Weber State are closer to true mid majors than small progams. MSU is close to that too. UNC is building a nice program, but not sure if they will ever be considered mid major. Sac State is heading the right direction in both football and basketball. In time, they can be in a mid major class.
AS for rest of the conference, dj is right, In the eyes of college basketball, the conference is much closer to being classified as a "small" conference. As a whole, in my opinion it is a small conference. A conference move would have helped basketball in the public eye. With the loss of BSU, Fresno State, and Nevada, I would consider the move not much of an upgrade. Beyond Utah State, who is a consistently good program in what will be the new WAC? With that said, I do love the addition of Denver though. This program has some great momentum and solid marked for basketball.
AS for rest of the conference, dj is right, In the eyes of college basketball, the conference is much closer to being classified as a "small" conference. As a whole, in my opinion it is a small conference. A conference move would have helped basketball in the public eye. With the loss of BSU, Fresno State, and Nevada, I would consider the move not much of an upgrade. Beyond Utah State, who is a consistently good program in what will be the new WAC? With that said, I do love the addition of Denver though. This program has some great momentum and solid marked for basketball.
mtgrizfankb
Well-known member
djollieballs said:
Then leave this board all you do us bi#ch and whine. Your not supportive to any program and your obviously not a GRIZ fan if you can even stand behind this university where were making mass bounds and leaps. Um is not perfect but it is a great university that is great in many sports too. We stand in. The fact we have less than 1 mill POP. In Montana while most 1-a schools have that in near or surrounding cities. We are a premier small school and a respectable mid major. THAT KNOWS IT'S PLACE. WE WILL NEVER BE A TOP 10SCHOOL IN BIG SPORTS. So maybe you can take you Texas penis envy and you boise state wanna be self and leave true GRIZ NATION fans alone.
Grizbeer
Well-known member
First let me say that I understand dj's style pisses almost everyone off. 2nd I believe that your views about UM's place in the national pecking order are largely the prevailing attitude among UM's boosters, administration, and fans base. The attitude that UM can never be a highly ranked team is largely why Hogan had to resign for the budget issue - I was heartbroken when boosters and fans derided hogan for saying he wanted UM to be a perennial Sweet 16 team. The boosters and a large part of the fan base was more happy with Holst being a good ol boy than moving the program forward.mtgrizfankb said:
But to say the door was never opened to be a top team is not correct. here the rankings for Big Sky teams in history:
http://www.bigskyconf.com/documents/2010/11/12/10-11SEC4.pdf?id=1364
that was pretty good company we had in the BSC in the '70's and '80's. And none of that happened because of location or population of those schools, it was all due to hiring good coaches, and feeding the program. It is the same philosophy that Gonzaga used in the '90's to rise to prominence. It is the same strategy Hogan wanted to use here, but the boosters wouldn't go for it - they wanted a good ol boy. Someone who came to their office and told stories, shook their hand, let them come into the locker room, or fly on the plane - someone who made them feel special, not someone who made the team and department special.
But even if I'm wrong about all of this, this thread was started by someone complaining this program doesn't get any respect. DJ was agreeing with you it will be few and far between that this program gets any respect . You think it is environment, he thinks it is leadership and expectations. But if you believe this program cannot achieve greatness and get respect as a national player, you really shouldn't call out the guy who is calling out others for complaining about not getting respect.
