Met with President Engstrom, UM will not request an appeal

[PlayerRep]

Who created the self-imposed sanctions & why did they go overboard with them? I think that is the issue we should be dealing with, not trying to get out of what we proposed to the NCAA.

It seems that the only people who think they went overboard are a few fans. The folks in the know have consistently said they appear appropriate. Do you have any information to indicate they just grabbed them out of the air????

Thanks in the meantime to Brint and his group for their work at getting it all clarified.

My view, generally, is that, in negotiations, if your first offer gets accepted, you have probably offered too much in your original offer.

 

[EverettGriz]

Who created the self-imposed sanctions & why did they go overboard with them? I think that is the issue we should be dealing with, not trying to get out of what we proposed to the NCAA.

It seems that the only people who think they went overboard are a few fans. The folks in the know have consistently said they appear appropriate. Do you have any information to indicate they just grabbed them out of the air????

Thanks in the meantime to Brint and his group for their work at getting it all clarified.

My view, generally, is that, in negotiations, if your first offer gets accepted, you have probably offered too much in your original offer.

Or you've done your homework.

 

[BWahlberg]

Who created the self-imposed sanctions & why did they go overboard with them? I think that is the issue we should be dealing with, not trying to get out of what we proposed to the NCAA.

It seems that the only people who think they went overboard are a few fans. The folks in the know have consistently said they appear appropriate. Do you have any information to indicate they just grabbed them out of the air????

Thanks in the meantime to Brint and his group for their work at getting it all clarified.

My view, generally, is that, in negotiations, if your first offer gets accepted, you have probably offered too much in your original offer.

And in the meeting yesterday Royce Engstrom was thinking of getting them dropped even before the white paper, and said the white paper helped convince him to look into getting the penalties dropped. It would seem those actions caused him to believe they're also excessive.

 

[wbtfg]

Will missoulian be doing a story?

 

[BWahlberg]

Will missoulian be doing a story?

UM will be sending out a press release on it as I'm told - so... maybe?

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Solid work BW. I guess I'll put the torches and pitchforks back in the barn. Let's play some football now.

 

[OrgonGriz]

Honestly I am not surprised. This "shows" Engstrom took this matter seriously and he is taking others advice. Great, he has there opinion and is just going to go with there suggestion. Frankly I think if Engstrom truly saw merit in the info BW and the group supplied Engstrom would at least approach the NCAA about it. You can't be told yes or no if you don't ask! This case did not need to be presented to the NCAA in a confrontational manner. I would think if the information BW and group was supplied in an honest and thoughtful manner the NCAA would listen. I think there is a good chance they may have shortened or lifted the scholarship reduction. Shoot they did it for Penn State and what went on there was far worse than this. At this point we will never know what the NCAA might have said. Well done Mr. Engstrom.

Let's see how our national search goes for a B Ball coach. Can I make a predication? I predict it will be someone on staff! They know the challenges and ends and out of Grizzly athletics blah blah blah..

 

[mtgrizrule]

Honestly I am not surprised. This "shows" Engstrom took this matter seriously and he is taking others advice. Great, he has there opinion and is just going to go with there suggestion. Frankly I think if Engstrom truly saw merit in the info BW and the group supplied Engstrom would at least approach the NCAA about it. You can't be told yes or no if you don't ask! This case did not need to be presented to the NCAA in a confrontational manner. I would think if the information BW and group was supplied in an honest and thoughtful manner the NCAA would listen. I think there is a good chance they may have shortened or lifted the scholarship reduction. Shoot they did it for Penn State and what went on there was far worse than this. At this point we will never know what the NCAA might have said. Well done Mr. Engstrom.

Let's see how our national search goes for a B Ball coach. Can I make a predication? I predict it will be someone on staff! They know the challenges and ends and out of Grizzly athletics blah blah blah..

I am disappointed in Engstrom consistently not fighting for his school, players, coaches etc. As for the hiring of a new basketball coach. I just want the best man for the job, just as I would for football. I don't have a preference of internal hire, or someone not tied to Montana whatsoever. As for basketball, hard to argue the track record of hiring coaches with Montana ties. Regardless of who is hired, I will try reserving my opinion until after hearing the coaches press conference etc. I just hope I can initially be satisfied and pleased with the news when a decision is announced.

With that said, this is one of the few hires where I will be disappointed if DeCuire is not hired. It would take one great hire for me to get over that disappointment. I also strongly supported Wayne Tinkle for head coach when Larry K left. As it turned out, Wayne was phenomenal and we are all happy with the job he did.

Rather it be basketball or football, I really do wish we could collectively get over the internal verses external mindset.

 

[WyomingGrizFan]

Both groups replied that they felt the penalties were fair considering the violations. The law firm in StL will be providing a written opinion to the UM on it. It's their belief that the process the UM went through simply does not allow appeals, that the penalties are fair, and that even "just asking" would be a waste of time.

If I get it correctly, one full ride scholarship to the UofM covers about $ 15,000 in expenses, roughly. So the reduction of four (4) schollarships is roughly a $ 60,000 fine. A $ 60,000 fine imposed for a belatedly returned $ 100 loan. Yeah, that sounds fair, alright. Did these so-called law firms get their degrees from sending in a coupon from a back of a magazine or what?

 

[PlayerRep]

Who created the self-imposed sanctions & why did they go overboard with them? I think that is the issue we should be dealing with, not trying to get out of what we proposed to the NCAA.

It seems that the only people who think they went overboard are a few fans. The folks in the know have consistently said they appear appropriate. Do you have any information to indicate they just grabbed them out of the air????

Thanks in the meantime to Brint and his group for their work at getting it all clarified.

My view, generally, is that, in negotiations, if your first offer gets accepted, you have probably offered too much in your original offer.

Or you've done your homework.

No, it almost never means you've done your homework. It means what I said, i.e. that you offered too much. Even if you think 4 schollies is the right amount and something that the ncaa would or should accept, you should probably offer less than 4 initially--to give you something to bargain with and to avoid giving away the store unnecessarily. I negotiate for a living--every work day of my life. I also am involved with investigations, including internal ones and dealing with government ones. I am usually reasonable, but I don't give away the store with my opening offer in situations like this.

 

[PlayerRep]

Honestly I am not surprised. This "shows" Engstrom took this matter seriously and he is taking others advice. Great, he has there opinion and is just going to go with there suggestion. Frankly I think if Engstrom truly saw merit in the info BW and the group supplied Engstrom would at least approach the NCAA about it. You can't be told yes or no if you don't ask! This case did not need to be presented to the NCAA in a confrontational manner. I would think if the information BW and group was supplied in an honest and thoughtful manner the NCAA would listen. I think there is a good chance they may have shortened or lifted the scholarship reduction. Shoot they did it for Penn State and what went on there was far worse than this. At this point we will never know what the NCAA might have said. Well done Mr. Engstrom.

Let's see how our national search goes for a B Ball coach. Can I make a predication? I predict it will be someone on staff! They know the challenges and ends and out of Grizzly athletics blah blah blah..

I think it shows that the white paper and other prodding by certain supporters caused Engstrom to take action. The supporters suggested that the law firm, and made the initial call.

 

[PlayerRep]

Both groups replied that they felt the penalties were fair considering the violations. The law firm in StL will be providing a written opinion to the UM on it. It's their belief that the process the UM went through simply does not allow appeals, that the penalties are fair, and that even "just asking" would be a waste of time.

If I get it correctly, one full ride scholarship to the UofM covers about $ 15,000 in expenses, roughly. So the reduction of four (4) schollarships is roughly a $ 60,000 fine. A $ 60,000 fine imposed for a belatedly returned $ 100 loan. Yeah, that sounds fair, alright. Did these so-called law firms get their degrees from sending in a coupon from a back of a magazine or what?

The "crime" was playing 2 players later deemed by the ncaa to be ineligible. UM's next "crime", in my view, was not properly fighting and dealing with the ncaa's allegations, i.e. the short-term bail loan and legal fees. This included not hiring any ncaa legal counsel for 6 month, and not hiring one with lots of experience representing universities in these types of investigations. As a result, multiple people at UM provided information to the ncaa and spoke to the ncaa and were interviewed by the ncaa, without ncaa experienced counsel to prepare, guide and assist them. UM, or at least some of the key people, did not think the investigation was going to be a huge deal.

 

[grizfromhel]

Just don't understand what the "downside" is for Engstrom to pursue the appeal. If we get turned down, at least we tried and some people may actually think that RE supports athletics at the University. Can't believe he is that dense, though the fact is that he doesn't want to piss off the liberal faculty who were a large part of starting this mess.

Brint, thanks for your good work.

 

[Umista]

Nice work Brint.
RE lets the wind blow on and away!

 

[signedbewildered]

squash

 

[krammer]

thanks b/w for the effort you have put into this topic, it was appreciated by many....

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Both groups replied that they felt the penalties were fair considering the violations. The law firm in StL will be providing a written opinion to the UM on it. It's their belief that the process the UM went through simply does not allow appeals, that the penalties are fair, and that even "just asking" would be a waste of time.

If I get it correctly, one full ride scholarship to the UofM covers about $ 15,000 in expenses, roughly. So the reduction of four (4) schollarships is roughly a $ 60,000 fine. A $ 60,000 fine imposed for a belatedly returned $ 100 loan. Yeah, that sounds fair, alright. Did these so-called law firms get their degrees from sending in a coupon from a back of a magazine or what?

The "crime" was playing 2 players later deemed by the ncaa to be ineligible. UM's next "crime", in my view, was not properly fighting and dealing with the ncaa's allegations, i.e. the short-term bail loan and legal fees. This included not hiring any ncaa legal counsel for 6 month, and not hiring one with lots of experience representing universities in these types of investigations. As a result, multiple people at UM provided information to the ncaa and spoke to the ncaa and were interviewed by the ncaa, without ncaa experienced counsel to prepare, guide and assist them. UM, or at least some of the key people, did not think the investigation was going to be a huge deal.

Good point. IMO RE has shown a total lack of judgement throughout this ordeal. I really don't think that RE felt that firing Pflu and O'Day and attempting to expel JJ were huge deals ether. He really seems to not have his finger on the pulse of "reality" here. Horrible leader and decision maker.

 

[zengriz]

...that'z the deal...
...it waz az clear then...
...az it iz now..think about it...

... ...

 

[tnt]

The crime resulting in the loss off scollies was lack of institutional control. Its considered a big one. In fact its the only one that has the death penalty. To the NCAA, its only pure luck, worse didn't happen as the adminisration and sanctioned coach were so out of control, worse could have happened. Not mentioned is the charges are so serious JOD is or has considered action against the NCAA to restore his reputation.

 

[EverettGriz]

This entire issue is so emblematic of our culture these days. No one taking any responsibility or accountability.

Look, we f*cked up. Just be men about it, take your punishment and move the f*uck on.