copper&gold
Well-known member
Milehi didn't refer to coach K. as Klassless. That was on my post and was in reference to a previous post on this thread by, I believe umdeez. I apologize if my allusion was a little obtuse.
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McCay and Lynch scholarships gone
- Thread starter Mslacat
- Start date
Boy this is so much fun.
Seriously, nice post Copper. I would love to think that all coaches are perfect but we know that isn't the case. I am not one of those polyanna people that belive all humans are perfect and since I am not one of those people, I don't get the right to judge Coach K's behavior.
I don't enjoy people calling the kettle black. Especially since in most cases unless they were present for all the meetings that went on around this, no one knows the truth but Coach K, McKay and Lynch. I am going to reserve judgement on this, and support the program.
IF they who support Lynch, can remain bitter and angry about it. Seriously, this whole issue reminds me of the Hartman issue from two years ago. I just am one of those people that looks at this situation as a part of college athletics. May not be the greatest thing in the world to do to a person, but this does happen. Almost every athelete who has ever played the game, knows stuff like this happens.
Seriously, nice post Copper. I would love to think that all coaches are perfect but we know that isn't the case. I am not one of those polyanna people that belive all humans are perfect and since I am not one of those people, I don't get the right to judge Coach K's behavior.
I don't enjoy people calling the kettle black. Especially since in most cases unless they were present for all the meetings that went on around this, no one knows the truth but Coach K, McKay and Lynch. I am going to reserve judgement on this, and support the program.
IF they who support Lynch, can remain bitter and angry about it. Seriously, this whole issue reminds me of the Hartman issue from two years ago. I just am one of those people that looks at this situation as a part of college athletics. May not be the greatest thing in the world to do to a person, but this does happen. Almost every athelete who has ever played the game, knows stuff like this happens.
milehighgriz
Well-known member
GrizFan 24, I would like to know how much of your life has been involved in basketball. You are right, I wasn't at one meeting this year. If you think the con Krysko guys out there all of sudden decided to bash him, because we were bored, you are wrong. Look at the shit he has pulled. Although he did make the dance and had a good showing against UW, I will give him that. The facts are, he pulled at lease one scholarship, probally forced Mckay to agree with him to hang up the shoes, he will not sign the best player in the state while sitting on 4 shollies, he is a poor communicator and frankly, I do not like the way he conducts himself on the bench. See I am the type of fan that looks at the big picture, not just jump on the band wagon because he went to the dance. Only truth will tell. My feeling are, I do not think he is the best thing for Montana hoops.
Rat hole,
Some of us have better things to do than sit on the board all day and share our wealth of knowledge....or lack there-of in your case. If you are holding out judgement until you hear both sides of the story, then what the hell have you been talking about???? Obviously that is not the case. I do not care to share any facts with you because like you said, "nobody knows the true story since they haven't visited with the coaches". That's great insight you have provided.....perhaps you should take your own advice and run!! I'm sure you could probably be hired by UM because apparently you have lots of free time on your hands and UM basketball consumes you. By the way, this is most definitely not just about Lynch, but all of the individuals that you have shared your plethora of knowledge about!
Some of us have better things to do than sit on the board all day and share our wealth of knowledge....or lack there-of in your case. If you are holding out judgement until you hear both sides of the story, then what the hell have you been talking about???? Obviously that is not the case. I do not care to share any facts with you because like you said, "nobody knows the true story since they haven't visited with the coaches". That's great insight you have provided.....perhaps you should take your own advice and run!! I'm sure you could probably be hired by UM because apparently you have lots of free time on your hands and UM basketball consumes you. By the way, this is most definitely not just about Lynch, but all of the individuals that you have shared your plethora of knowledge about!
copper&gold said:
Hey Copper&Gold,
You should do some research on coach K before you make such bold statements. You mention that Larry did not have much success in the classroom when he was a student.
Here's something I ripped from Larry's Bio on montanagrizzlies.com
"Krysko was also an outstanding student at UM, and was a two-time first team Division I Academic All-America in 1985 and 1986, and an honorable mention pick in 1984, maintaining a 3.68 GPA in business."
Next time don't make up your own "facts", it makes you look bad
copper&gold
Well-known member
Fair enough, thanks remax for pointing out my error. I must have had bad information, and will do my 'fact' checking next time. If you could I would like to know in what year Larry received his degree. Did he get it in 4-5 years while he was playing?
Lets see here, I am 29 years old...and i ahve been playing or coaching the game since I was 8 so 21 years.
I disagree, after going through the acidic Taylor regime, then the emotionless Holst regime, and then the absolutely pathetic Kennedy regime, I think Coack Krysko has done more in the past year for the program. And yes, I do look at the big picture. The one difference between him and his two predecessors, he is recruiting so far HIgh school kids versus two year JC kids. Mansel and company have had difficulties staying eligible and I like that idea. I was around the program when Krysko was playing, saw the crowds and I endured through college at the UofM when the place was switched around.
I can't say much as to why or why not he isn't offereing MCGillis, all I can say I am not privy to that knowlege, nor as I am going to speculate why. I just simply am not going to throw out judgements as to why he is doing things. In my experience, as a head coach, I know it is far better to get it from the horses mouth rather than listen to rumour and innuendo.
I seriously liken the situation to my profession, as long as you are non tenured, nothing is a guarantee. As long as the schollies are one year in length, and not four years, then well all I can do is sympathize with Lynch and McKay, and trust that Coach K has the best in mind for the program. You may or may not disagree, but that is what they entrust him to do.
I disagree, after going through the acidic Taylor regime, then the emotionless Holst regime, and then the absolutely pathetic Kennedy regime, I think Coack Krysko has done more in the past year for the program. And yes, I do look at the big picture. The one difference between him and his two predecessors, he is recruiting so far HIgh school kids versus two year JC kids. Mansel and company have had difficulties staying eligible and I like that idea. I was around the program when Krysko was playing, saw the crowds and I endured through college at the UofM when the place was switched around.
I can't say much as to why or why not he isn't offereing MCGillis, all I can say I am not privy to that knowlege, nor as I am going to speculate why. I just simply am not going to throw out judgements as to why he is doing things. In my experience, as a head coach, I know it is far better to get it from the horses mouth rather than listen to rumour and innuendo.
I seriously liken the situation to my profession, as long as you are non tenured, nothing is a guarantee. As long as the schollies are one year in length, and not four years, then well all I can do is sympathize with Lynch and McKay, and trust that Coach K has the best in mind for the program. You may or may not disagree, but that is what they entrust him to do.
copper&gold
Well-known member
I have one question for griz 24. In the long run is it better that these scholarships aren't renewed? Yes he as opened scholarships for next year but how does he walk into future recruits homes and make their parents feel confident that the recruit won't be sent packing if he dislocates a shoulder. What do you tell a kid, "I'll offer you a scholarship, provided you don't get injured and bust your butt for the griz. But even if you bust your butt I reserve the right to rescind the offer after any season."
That's a tough sell. I know college athletics are cutthroat, I was raised that a man keeps his word, I think most Montanans would agree.
That's a tough sell. I know college athletics are cutthroat, I was raised that a man keeps his word, I think most Montanans would agree.
Grizdominate
Well-known member
Milehi, just because McGillis is considered the best BB plalyer in Montana, does that mean he is considered good enough to play D-1 basketball? I am not trying to knock McGillis, but the Griz have already used 4 schollies, and I think have one more to offer. They have already signed 3 players comparable to McGillis and if they are going to sign another player, I am pretty sure that it will be a PF or C. Also, pulling schollies is not a new development in college athletics, especially when a new coach is weeding out players that do not work in the system they are going to use. I feel that MileHi has a personal relationship with one of the players that is not having his schollie renewed and is letting his bias show in ripping Krysco.
I honestly believe as was the case with Hartmann (justin) that people will forget. Also, I believe recruiting Montana kids is always a tough subject. You allow a kid like Criswell to walk on and look what does versus Mike Chavez. The problem has always seemed to be a what level does the UofM want to play versus how to keep the fans happy. I will be the first to tell you, Kennedy was a buthead for not recruiting Henkel. Much as I would think it would be a mistake for them not to send a schollie McGillis's way.
There are maybe two or three d1 players in Montana every year, and most of those kids are borderline at best. Recently, only a handful of kids from here have gone on to have dominant BSC careers. It has been at least a decade since we have seen montana players that have dominated the conference. Sprinkle might have been the most recent, but Criswell has been a good basketball player but not a great one. This is not to say that McGillis, Hasquet could be great players.
Where Montana produces great football players, other than womens, Montana frankly recently hasn't produced very good Division 1 talent. Some of you may disagree, but we haven't had a top notch player to come from Montana since the early 90's when we had Engellant and Fasting. Some would even argue of the 91 and 92 teams that Delvon Anderson was more important than any of those players.
Going back to the Hartmann issue, if that were truly a problem here in teh Great Falls area, the UofM would have got Bagley or Mullins from CMR if that were the case.
I won't argue with the point that this might turn some fans off, but like I have said all along, this isn't a business to be nice. Don Holst was nice, too nice. There was some crap that he had from the end of the Taylor regime that wasn't good all and rather than jettison some of it, he held on to it, filled in with JC's (Matt Williams was a good get) and struggled for the most part.
Lynch presence at the UofM is more indicative of the situation before Krysko got here. That is not saying that he didnn't deserve a shot, I believe the impression that he gave the coaches (this is on playing ability only) that is he wouldn't be a long term fit here. The UofM released Jeff Hays (which is sacrilege in UofM basketball history) and very few people if at all really ever questioned his transfer to carrol along with Gary Lynch.
What has frustrated me more than anything else that the two prior coaches spent so little time coaching and teaching that they felt the need and the desire to fill the holes with JC guys and individuals that wouldn't develop in the program. Honestly, Criswell is the first guy since Cummings that has been a significant part of the program for four years. That doesn't say much.
I don't neccessarily believe all the blame resides with Krysko either. If the program had been left in good stead, we wouldn't honestly be talking about this right now. Moreover, I just don't believe Brain was ever a player that could compete at this level. He honestly would have needed to be someone like Criswell or another UGF alum in Mike Warhank.
Disagree with me if you want, but I think the long term picture is to turn this program around and put people back into the stands. Holst and Kennedy failed, Krysko showed the signs that he is going to do everything possible to return the UofM to its riightful spot amongst the BSC programs. He may be abrasive, he has shown the ability to recruit, he may be young, but that is not to say that he won't turn into the coach that we need. I just ask, give the guy a chance, I can't say if cutting Lynch is a mistake, might be, I just honestly don't think so.
There are maybe two or three d1 players in Montana every year, and most of those kids are borderline at best. Recently, only a handful of kids from here have gone on to have dominant BSC careers. It has been at least a decade since we have seen montana players that have dominated the conference. Sprinkle might have been the most recent, but Criswell has been a good basketball player but not a great one. This is not to say that McGillis, Hasquet could be great players.
Where Montana produces great football players, other than womens, Montana frankly recently hasn't produced very good Division 1 talent. Some of you may disagree, but we haven't had a top notch player to come from Montana since the early 90's when we had Engellant and Fasting. Some would even argue of the 91 and 92 teams that Delvon Anderson was more important than any of those players.
Going back to the Hartmann issue, if that were truly a problem here in teh Great Falls area, the UofM would have got Bagley or Mullins from CMR if that were the case.
I won't argue with the point that this might turn some fans off, but like I have said all along, this isn't a business to be nice. Don Holst was nice, too nice. There was some crap that he had from the end of the Taylor regime that wasn't good all and rather than jettison some of it, he held on to it, filled in with JC's (Matt Williams was a good get) and struggled for the most part.
Lynch presence at the UofM is more indicative of the situation before Krysko got here. That is not saying that he didnn't deserve a shot, I believe the impression that he gave the coaches (this is on playing ability only) that is he wouldn't be a long term fit here. The UofM released Jeff Hays (which is sacrilege in UofM basketball history) and very few people if at all really ever questioned his transfer to carrol along with Gary Lynch.
What has frustrated me more than anything else that the two prior coaches spent so little time coaching and teaching that they felt the need and the desire to fill the holes with JC guys and individuals that wouldn't develop in the program. Honestly, Criswell is the first guy since Cummings that has been a significant part of the program for four years. That doesn't say much.
I don't neccessarily believe all the blame resides with Krysko either. If the program had been left in good stead, we wouldn't honestly be talking about this right now. Moreover, I just don't believe Brain was ever a player that could compete at this level. He honestly would have needed to be someone like Criswell or another UGF alum in Mike Warhank.
Disagree with me if you want, but I think the long term picture is to turn this program around and put people back into the stands. Holst and Kennedy failed, Krysko showed the signs that he is going to do everything possible to return the UofM to its riightful spot amongst the BSC programs. He may be abrasive, he has shown the ability to recruit, he may be young, but that is not to say that he won't turn into the coach that we need. I just ask, give the guy a chance, I can't say if cutting Lynch is a mistake, might be, I just honestly don't think so.
Thanks copper&gold, appreciate the insight.
I'm not suprised that Chris was big enought to admit that he understood where the coaches were coming from. He is an incredibly upstanding guy, no doubt about it. I share in his dissappointment that he won't get the chance to come back for his last year as he has been great on the defensive end. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to develop much confidence on offense and that doesn't help in combination with the injuries. Mainly, I hate to see such a great kid have to deal with this. The saying holds true I suppose...Nice guys finish last.
The same goes for Brian. Another great kid who is in a tough situation. I hope he too understands where the coaches are coming from. While I think its alright to be dissappointed, its unfair to maintain hard feelings for the coaching staff. Remember, Krysko didn't even have to give Lynch a scholarship this year.
Krysko is definitely not a "smooth operator" when it comes to the media. Let's be careful not to confuse this and witholding or covering up information. Most of the time in the press, I think he's just trying to be careful about what he says in order to protect the personal information of his team. He is very quiet and keeps to himself.
I've heard a couple other of his quotes towards players similar to that of Theirry's. It seems to me that maybe his sense of humor doesn't come across very well to his players.
I'm not suprised that Chris was big enought to admit that he understood where the coaches were coming from. He is an incredibly upstanding guy, no doubt about it. I share in his dissappointment that he won't get the chance to come back for his last year as he has been great on the defensive end. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to develop much confidence on offense and that doesn't help in combination with the injuries. Mainly, I hate to see such a great kid have to deal with this. The saying holds true I suppose...Nice guys finish last.
The same goes for Brian. Another great kid who is in a tough situation. I hope he too understands where the coaches are coming from. While I think its alright to be dissappointed, its unfair to maintain hard feelings for the coaching staff. Remember, Krysko didn't even have to give Lynch a scholarship this year.
Krysko is definitely not a "smooth operator" when it comes to the media. Let's be careful not to confuse this and witholding or covering up information. Most of the time in the press, I think he's just trying to be careful about what he says in order to protect the personal information of his team. He is very quiet and keeps to himself.
I've heard a couple other of his quotes towards players similar to that of Theirry's. It seems to me that maybe his sense of humor doesn't come across very well to his players.
copper&gold
Well-known member
I wasn't present at the Theirry exchange, but from who I talked to it didn't seem to be in jest. If it was it was done in poor taste. I don't know Theirry, what his relationship to coach K. is or what K's. intent was. However, Theirry is a walk-on, someone who comes to practice everyday to help the griz get better. He (I assume) does this everyday, with little praise, and less of a chance of a scholarship. Belittling someone like this, who is working hard for the Griz is a slap in the face. There was no point, and as a griz fan I'm a little upset he would treat a player like that, in public no less. If I were an athlete, who K. was asking to walk on, and was privy to this info (not to mention the perception given by the recent rescinding of schollies), I would not even consider U of M.
With that said, it may be a situation that was misunderstood. Hopefully coach K. will be more tactful in the future.
With that said, it may be a situation that was misunderstood. Hopefully coach K. will be more tactful in the future.
Here's the one I heard:
Player is coming off sitting out a game due to injury and is shooting well the day before a game.
Player says: "Hey coach, we could have used this shooting the other night, huh?"
Krysko: "Well, if you weren't such a pussy."
The way it was told to me, it also didn't come off as joking, but after hearing about the other comment, it makes me wonder if he just misjudges when/what to say certain things/times.
Player is coming off sitting out a game due to injury and is shooting well the day before a game.
Player says: "Hey coach, we could have used this shooting the other night, huh?"
Krysko: "Well, if you weren't such a pussy."
The way it was told to me, it also didn't come off as joking, but after hearing about the other comment, it makes me wonder if he just misjudges when/what to say certain things/times.
milehighgriz
Well-known member
First thing, Holst should never have been fired. first coach to get his team to the dance to be fired. Look it up!!! Second of all, at what point would you like players to contribute at this level. I think we call all agree Warhank was a hell of a player. When did he start getting playing time? His junior year. When did he turn into a solid player? His senior year. The point is, MOST players in the Big Sky will develop into legitimate player by the time of their junior year. That is a fact. This is not a top notch program where you can get kids to come in and contribute right away as freshmen.
Why is Hartman even being brought up in this situation. He called the football program out which is totally a whole different situation then this one.
Also, out of the 4 shollies left, who has Krysko signed. Tomorrow is Friday, and by the weekend he should have at leat two schollies filled, if not by now.
Who can argue with McGillis's statistics. He has proformed well in national tournments, only missed 14 or so free throws, shot a great percentage and shot over 50% behind the arc for his senior year. IF he played in Denver, where I am, he wouldn't even have to consider Montana. It is unfortanate his home town school is treating him like shit. In all honestly, I would like to see him go somewhere else, I don't think he will reach his highest potential under Krysko.
Why is Hartman even being brought up in this situation. He called the football program out which is totally a whole different situation then this one.
Also, out of the 4 shollies left, who has Krysko signed. Tomorrow is Friday, and by the weekend he should have at leat two schollies filled, if not by now.
Who can argue with McGillis's statistics. He has proformed well in national tournments, only missed 14 or so free throws, shot a great percentage and shot over 50% behind the arc for his senior year. IF he played in Denver, where I am, he wouldn't even have to consider Montana. It is unfortanate his home town school is treating him like shit. In all honestly, I would like to see him go somewhere else, I don't think he will reach his highest potential under Krysko.
Potomac Griz
Well-known member
milehighgriz said:
I definitely disagree with you about Holst. That's all done with and is old history now though, so no point in arguing. If you are interested enough in arguing this, please refer to my many replies/posts on that topic
I also disagree about this not being a program where you can get people to come in and contribute right away as freshman. Martin & Strait contributed a ton last year. Dlouhy & Criswell also contributed quite a bit in their freshman years I'd say.. Coach K has to try to build as strong of a program as he can. We need players to contribute pretty much right away. It would be nice if a player could have 3 years to develop into a good player, but that's not really realistic. Coach K obviously thought that Lynch wasn't going to be getting much playing time next year, and that the scholarship could be better used on a player who was going to be playing quite a bit next year.
One other thing, there weren't 4 scholarships to spend after the 4 players left the program. We were at -1 scholarships before Easley & Farr left. We had 1 scholarship available after that, and then 3 available once Lynch & McKay were no longer under scholarship. One of those 3 is going to Van Vliet (freshman, who hopefully will be able to redshirt) and the other 2 will most likely go to a JC post player (which we will need for next season) and a JC guard (probably point guard) which we will need next season, if Martin is indeed being moved to the 2.
How exactly is the U of M treating McGillis like &@#$? Unfortunatley McGillis doesn't fit any of the holes the Griz need to fill right now (Post & PG). If McGillis walks on he could definitely earn a scholarship for the following year, and I hope that's what happens. A couple very good current Griz players did that (Criswell & Dlouhy). Maybe some information is being left out here, but I really don't see how not offering someone a scholarship, when that person doesn't fill any of your immediate needs, is treating that person like $&@#.
Mile,
If you talk to any of the players or people who were around for the Hartmann situation, I think they would agree the situation was handled about the same way from a coaching staff. However, Hartmann chose not to deal with it like an adult.
Holst was not rehired for one simple reason, he wasn't taking the program in the right direction ,nor did kennedy. But in any case, Hogan made a decision good or bad, but that too is in the past.
If I remember right, warhank threw in 33 as a sophomore at Eastern Washington.
I understand if you are angry mile, i really can.
If there were ever a league where freshman should step in and dominate it should be the BSC. This conference is devoid of talent on a large scale and recent memory tells us that is in fact the case. Strait, Martin and Criswell are great examples from here, Durham from MSU, the freshman from NAU (his name escapes me right now) and Axton when he was a freshman at Eastern. The BSC ranks 27 out of 28 conferences in RPI and frankly is an awful league.
In theory if I were a coach, I go out and recruit instant impact players. Why do you suspect recently that almost ALL of the BSC teams have dove in to the JUCO ranks? MSU this year, WSU last year, PSU most years, because the talent is so abysmal that you bring in one or two impact JUCO's and suddenly you are a conference champion.
However the two programs that have been more consistent than not over the past 5-10 years are NAU and Eastern Washington, why because the bring in quality freshmen, play them and teh develop.
I think in my humble opinion, Krysko is doing what is going to make this program a top notch one. I can give a rats butt if anyone likes the way he does it. He seems to bring results. Everyone seems to forgive Bobby Knight for being a sanctamonious ass, because he wins. We forgive Bobby Hauck for being arrogant, why because he wins and gives the public what they want.
My opinion that cleaning house is what needs to be if Krysko thinks it needs to be done. Obviously he has hit a chord with you, inflamed your sensibilities, but the fact is, after having been around both the football program and the basketball program while I was there, this is whole heck of a lot nicer than a lot of the crap that goes on behind closed doors.
If you talk to any of the players or people who were around for the Hartmann situation, I think they would agree the situation was handled about the same way from a coaching staff. However, Hartmann chose not to deal with it like an adult.
Holst was not rehired for one simple reason, he wasn't taking the program in the right direction ,nor did kennedy. But in any case, Hogan made a decision good or bad, but that too is in the past.
If I remember right, warhank threw in 33 as a sophomore at Eastern Washington.
I understand if you are angry mile, i really can.
If there were ever a league where freshman should step in and dominate it should be the BSC. This conference is devoid of talent on a large scale and recent memory tells us that is in fact the case. Strait, Martin and Criswell are great examples from here, Durham from MSU, the freshman from NAU (his name escapes me right now) and Axton when he was a freshman at Eastern. The BSC ranks 27 out of 28 conferences in RPI and frankly is an awful league.
In theory if I were a coach, I go out and recruit instant impact players. Why do you suspect recently that almost ALL of the BSC teams have dove in to the JUCO ranks? MSU this year, WSU last year, PSU most years, because the talent is so abysmal that you bring in one or two impact JUCO's and suddenly you are a conference champion.
However the two programs that have been more consistent than not over the past 5-10 years are NAU and Eastern Washington, why because the bring in quality freshmen, play them and teh develop.
I think in my humble opinion, Krysko is doing what is going to make this program a top notch one. I can give a rats butt if anyone likes the way he does it. He seems to bring results. Everyone seems to forgive Bobby Knight for being a sanctamonious ass, because he wins. We forgive Bobby Hauck for being arrogant, why because he wins and gives the public what they want.
My opinion that cleaning house is what needs to be if Krysko thinks it needs to be done. Obviously he has hit a chord with you, inflamed your sensibilities, but the fact is, after having been around both the football program and the basketball program while I was there, this is whole heck of a lot nicer than a lot of the crap that goes on behind closed doors.
copper and gold you know the answer to kryskos graduation date. That was a bated question. Who knows the reason why he got a degree in I believe 96'. Got drafted and went into NBA and focused on career. I assume he was a few credits short and took care of it when it was convenient. A lot of pro players have done that if it is important to them so what. Why bring it up. What was your point? You are neither pro or con on Krysko at this time but like to diss him.
milehighgriz
Well-known member
Well everyone knows how I feel, which is the point, I am over it. I wish the program luck, because at this point that is all that is left!!!
Swillbury
Well-known member
GUESS WHAT PEOPLE??? We won the BSC!!!!! In my opinon Lynch or Chris wasnt gonna help the program in any way. We have one of the best recruiting classes in the past 10 years. Why does everybody have to hate right now. Times are good in Montana country (unless your a cat fan) maybe you guys should whine about something u have control over like...putting people in the stands.
