Limited player update

[citygriz]

mslacat:

great post, because it comes from an informed objective source, confirms what i've always felt about tinkle, and drops the nugget that we're pursuing bill evans, which greatly heartens me. we need stronger assistants.

i see you didn't respond to my comment about the high number of redshirts in the bobcat program, but maybe you feel huse is under less pressure thank tinkle. in any case, i heartily endorse what huse is doing, and wish the griz had the same luxury. this policy will pay big dividends for the cats, starting this year.

 

[Grizbacker1]

Tinkle is under a lot of pressure to win this season, it is not a secret if he hopes to get another contract, one or three year, it depends solely how this year team finishes. To redshirt 3 players (freshman or other wise) would leave Tinkle with only 10 scholarship players, and that is too skinny of a bench for most coaches. Furthermore you have to look at the depth chart per position and you are very thin at the point. Elgin Taylor is a solid starting point, but I am told that Taylor may not be a pure point, and better suited for the off guard. That leaves Stockton as your only other point pure or other wise. Unless another players shows some ability to play the point I do not see Stockton redshirted. Ward is clearly the most ready to play of the freshman, to play and a future star. If he can beat out Sharp and/or a work in progress Selvig he will play. There is not building for the future for Tinkle. The future is now, the best players at each position will play. I would not be totally surprised if the Griz redshirted only one player.

mslcat: this is a situation where a coach needs a strong a.d., one with the guts to evalute a coach, work with that coach on curing his deficiencies, and decide whether he has what it takes to be a head coach or not. and if he decides yes, give that coach the time he needs to build the program. at a school where football has become king, and most fans couldn't care less about the basketball program, i don't see this as being much to ask.

to me, tinkle has weaknesses as a coach that can be addressed, and strengths that are truly special--as a recruiter, as a man who commands respect among players, as a guy with a storied history at montana. as someone who is an expert on recruiting, i think you'd have to admit that tinkle's two-year run on the recruiting trail--qvale, selvig, ward, stockton, not to mention mcgillis--has been extremely impressive. there's not one player there that wouldn't be welcomed at any big sky school, let alone some bigger programs. if i'm the a.d., i look at this and say, this man deserves another three years, period, and i will do everything in my power meantime to keep the wolves at bay, while helping this coach recognize and work on his weaknesses. i mean, athletic director means "boss," and that's what a boss does--encourage and bring out the best in his employees.

of course, that's the problem in this country today, not only in college athletics but with big-board companies as well--short term gratification to the exclusion of solid long-term planning.

by the way, the cats have red-shirted any number of players the past year or two--rush, edwards, piepoli--and probably should have red-shirted bobby howard as well, and i haven't heard you as the biggest cat fan this side of timbuktu complain about a one.

Strictly my opinion.

I have talked to a few D-1 coaches in the last couple of months, and to a man every one of the feels the Griz would be making a big mistake if they let Tinkle. I had one coach tell me he feels that Tinkle talent wise should be a top two team next year. Another opinion was the biggest problem Tinkle had when he took over the program was he was given loads of talent but almost NO athleticism. As talented the Griz were they simply could not keep up defensively, nor really push the ball. To make things worse last year you had no true small forward last year which was the Griz Achilles heel.

All of that said Tinkle's strength is that he is a very strong recruiter, a good communicator with the athletes and a good face for the program. He has some perceived weakness in game management, and that is why he is pursuing (Maybe at the insistance of O'Day?) former Southern Utah head coach Bill Evens.

If you ask the so called experts what are the top qualities you need in a D-1 coach, #1 is Recruiting, and #2 also recruiting. Tinkle has that down in spades. Larry K. came in and turned the Griz program around, with Kennedy's athletes, unfortunately he did not do as good of job in recruiting as he did of coaching. Tinkle has had to cycle out Kysco's recruits and recruit more athletic players capable of playing D-1 ball.

You have spent the time and invested in Tinkle, you should see what your investment is worth. Sign him this summer to a 1 year extension. I know Robin would appreciate it.

Interesting spin on Bill Evans adding the O' Day bit. I know that I gave you the info about Bill Evans via PM a couple weeks ago, along with the name of one other assistant coach, but I sure didn't include the O'Day part. Are you basing that on fact, or did you just want to spice up the post with a little bobcat flare? :thumb:

 

[Mslacat]

Oh about redshirting and the Cats:

I am all for redshirting, and I wish all freshman could be redshirted, but when the NCAA reduced the max scholarships in Basketball from 15 to 13 it really hurt the development of the of players through redshirting. It used to be that a team would have 15 scholarships and almost always redshirt 3 players leaving 12 on the active roster. 9-10 players would be regualr contributor and 2-3 active players would be freshman coming off a redshirt year and waiting for the chance to contribute. The numbers are different but this is the way football does it currently. With 13 scholarships (and scholarships that can not be split) it really cuts down the number of players you can redshirt, and also requires players to be able to contribute earlier. So today Benches are thinner, coaches are more wiling cut players more quickly when they do not contribute early in there career, reliance on more JC players who can contribute right away, and less redshirts. Developing players from with in a program is much more difficult to do and still keep your job. It is a fine balancing act to determine how many players to redshirt and how many to have active.

For the Bobcats in particular. First Huse is not under any pressure right now and that makes a difference. Huse did not redshirt a single player his first year at MSU. In talking to him at the time he did not feel he had a good enough feel for his personnel at the time, and was worried about depth. About midway through the season he realised that Derochowski and Malloy should have been redshirted, and he really wished Rush and Piepoli could have been. As a mater of fact Derochowski was pretty upset that he lost a year of eligibility and hardly got on the court. Last year MSU had a dearth of players at the shooting guard and small forward. Mekling, and Friezen could not be redshirted, so Huse took a calculated gamble and redshirted Rush and Piepoli, even though Rush, by most accounts, was a better player than either Meckling or Friezen. He sacrifised some of last years success to get a potential all conference players for 2011. Huse also redshirted Thomas, Edwards, and Arthum last year leaving him with only 10 active scholarship players (plus 1 walk-on) last year, and 5 redshirt players (3 scholarship and 2 walk-on).

Now back to my first comment. Huse had the luxury in knowing that he was not under any pressure to win now or else, but he is still not sure he will do that too often. If given the choice Huse would have liked to redshirt Howard, but he could not afford it. In the end Howad had a great first 1/2 of the season but really struggled second 1/2. He just was not used to playing 30 games a year.

The Griz want Tinkle to win next year or else, and that will have a big impact on his player personal decisions

 

[Mslacat]

Tinkle is under a lot of pressure to win this season, it is not a secret if he hopes to get another contract, one or three year, it depends solely how this year team finishes. To redshirt 3 players (freshman or other wise) would leave Tinkle with only 10 scholarship players, and that is too skinny of a bench for most coaches. Furthermore you have to look at the depth chart per position and you are very thin at the point. Elgin Taylor is a solid starting point, but I am told that Taylor may not be a pure point, and better suited for the off guard. That leaves Stockton as your only other point pure or other wise. Unless another players shows some ability to play the point I do not see Stockton redshirted. Ward is clearly the most ready to play of the freshman, to play and a future star. If he can beat out Sharp and/or a work in progress Selvig he will play. There is not building for the future for Tinkle. The future is now, the best players at each position will play. I would not be totally surprised if the Griz redshirted only one player.

mslcat: this is a situation where a coach needs a strong a.d., one with the guts to evalute a coach, work with that coach on curing his deficiencies, and decide whether he has what it takes to be a head coach or not. and if he decides yes, give that coach the time he needs to build the program. at a school where football has become king, and most fans couldn't care less about the basketball program, i don't see this as being much to ask.

to me, tinkle has weaknesses as a coach that can be addressed, and strengths that are truly special--as a recruiter, as a man who commands respect among players, as a guy with a storied history at montana. as someone who is an expert on recruiting, i think you'd have to admit that tinkle's two-year run on the recruiting trail--qvale, selvig, ward, stockton, not to mention mcgillis--has been extremely impressive. there's not one player there that wouldn't be welcomed at any big sky school, let alone some bigger programs. if i'm the a.d., i look at this and say, this man deserves another three years, period, and i will do everything in my power meantime to keep the wolves at bay, while helping this coach recognize and work on his weaknesses. i mean, athletic director means "boss," and that's what a boss does--encourage and bring out the best in his employees.

of course, that's the problem in this country today, not only in college athletics but with big-board companies as well--short term gratification to the exclusion of solid long-term planning.

by the way, the cats have red-shirted any number of players the past year or two--rush, edwards, piepoli--and probably should have red-shirted bobby howard as well, and i haven't heard you as the biggest cat fan this side of timbuktu complain about a one.

Strictly my opinion.

I have talked to a few D-1 coaches in the last couple of months, and to a man every one of the feels the Griz would be making a big mistake if they let Tinkle. I had one coach tell me he feels that Tinkle talent wise should be a top two team next year. Another opinion was the biggest problem Tinkle had when he took over the program was he was given loads of talent but almost NO athleticism. As talented the Griz were they simply could not keep up defensively, nor really push the ball. To make things worse last year you had no true small forward last year which was the Griz Achilles heel.

All of that said Tinkle's strength is that he is a very strong recruiter, a good communicator with the athletes and a good face for the program. He has some perceived weakness in game management, and that is why he is pursuing (Maybe at the insistance of O'Day?) former Southern Utah head coach Bill Evens.

If you ask the so called experts what are the top qualities you need in a D-1 coach, #1 is Recruiting, and #2 also recruiting. Tinkle has that down in spades. Larry K. came in and turned the Griz program around, with Kennedy's athletes, unfortunately he did not do as good of job in recruiting as he did of coaching. Tinkle has had to cycle out Kysco's recruits and recruit more athletic players capable of playing D-1 ball.

You have spent the time and invested in Tinkle, you should see what your investment is worth. Sign him this summer to a 1 year extension. I know Robin would appreciate it.

Interesting spin on Bill Evans adding the O' Day bit. I know that I gave you the info about Bill Evans via PM a couple weeks ago, along with the name of one other assistant coach, but I sure didn't include the O'Day part. Are you basing that on fact, or did you just want to spice up the post with a little bobcat flare? :thumb:

I am not so sure the Bill Evens thing is all that much of a secret anymore I have heard it from a few sources. It was suggested to me by another Griz booster that, he would not be surprised if O'Day had a hand in Marso dismissal or the direction of the search was going.

BTW are you guy's going to anounce a new hire anytime soon?

Hell we bobcats have replaced 3 assistants in the same time....................................

................ may be that is not such a good thing :blush:

 

[Grizbacker1]

mslcat: this is a situation where a coach needs a strong a.d., one with the guts to evalute a coach, work with that coach on curing his deficiencies, and decide whether he has what it takes to be a head coach or not. and if he decides yes, give that coach the time he needs to build the program. at a school where football has become king, and most fans couldn't care less about the basketball program, i don't see this as being much to ask.

to me, tinkle has weaknesses as a coach that can be addressed, and strengths that are truly special--as a recruiter, as a man who commands respect among players, as a guy with a storied history at montana. as someone who is an expert on recruiting, i think you'd have to admit that tinkle's two-year run on the recruiting trail--qvale, selvig, ward, stockton, not to mention mcgillis--has been extremely impressive. there's not one player there that wouldn't be welcomed at any big sky school, let alone some bigger programs. if i'm the a.d., i look at this and say, this man deserves another three years, period, and i will do everything in my power meantime to keep the wolves at bay, while helping this coach recognize and work on his weaknesses. i mean, athletic director means "boss," and that's what a boss does--encourage and bring out the best in his employees.

of course, that's the problem in this country today, not only in college athletics but with big-board companies as well--short term gratification to the exclusion of solid long-term planning.

by the way, the cats have red-shirted any number of players the past year or two--rush, edwards, piepoli--and probably should have red-shirted bobby howard as well, and i haven't heard you as the biggest cat fan this side of timbuktu complain about a one.

Strictly my opinion.

I have talked to a few D-1 coaches in the last couple of months, and to a man every one of the feels the Griz would be making a big mistake if they let Tinkle. I had one coach tell me he feels that Tinkle talent wise should be a top two team next year. Another opinion was the biggest problem Tinkle had when he took over the program was he was given loads of talent but almost NO athleticism. As talented the Griz were they simply could not keep up defensively, nor really push the ball. To make things worse last year you had no true small forward last year which was the Griz Achilles heel.

All of that said Tinkle's strength is that he is a very strong recruiter, a good communicator with the athletes and a good face for the program. He has some perceived weakness in game management, and that is why he is pursuing (Maybe at the insistance of O'Day?) former Southern Utah head coach Bill Evens.

If you ask the so called experts what are the top qualities you need in a D-1 coach, #1 is Recruiting, and #2 also recruiting. Tinkle has that down in spades. Larry K. came in and turned the Griz program around, with Kennedy's athletes, unfortunately he did not do as good of job in recruiting as he did of coaching. Tinkle has had to cycle out Kysco's recruits and recruit more athletic players capable of playing D-1 ball.

You have spent the time and invested in Tinkle, you should see what your investment is worth. Sign him this summer to a 1 year extension. I know Robin would appreciate it.

Interesting spin on Bill Evans adding the O' Day bit. I know that I gave you the info about Bill Evans via PM a couple weeks ago, along with the name of one other assistant coach, but I sure didn't include the O'Day part. Are you basing that on fact, or did you just want to spice up the post with a little bobcat flare? :thumb:

I am not so sure the Bill Evens thing is all that much of a secret anymore I have heard it from a few sources. It was suggested to me by another Griz booster that, he would not be surprised if O'Day had a hand in Marso dismissal or the direction of the search was going.

BTW are you guy's going to anounce a new hire anytime soon?

Hell we bobcats have replaced 3 assistants in the same time....................................

................ may be that is not such a good thing :blush:

I don't think Tinkle needed O'Day to tell him a thing about Marso. Tinks can read the writing on the wall, and so coul dMarso for that matter.

Tinks isn't in a hurry to name his assistant. It isn't like he had to replace an ENTIRE staff like Huse did. I imagine the honeymoon is about over in Bozeman for Huse as well.

 

[Mslacat]

GB1

Huse position at MSU as of right now is rock solid! We had the highest home attendance in the league last year and in the top 20 nation wide in attendance increase over the last year. I have not heard one negative comment from ANY Bobcat booster. That includes, personal friends, message board folks, or other boosters, and I know Peter Fields is tickled to death with Huse, both as a coach and a person.


All of that said, I will admit fan's opinions can change quickly, but remember this even though last years team did run out of steam last year they, the 'Cats still improved on Huses first season, and in his 8 years as a head coach his teams win loss record has always improved over the previous years record.

 

[Grizbacker1]

GB1

Huse position at MSU as of right now is rock solid! We had the highest home attendance in the league last year and in the top 20 nation wide in attendance increase over the last year. I have not heard one negative comment from ANY Bobcat booster. That includes, personal friends, message board folks, or other boosters, and I know Peter Fields is tickled to death with Huse, both as a coach and a person.


All of that said, I will admit fan's opinions can change quickly, but remember this even though last years team did run out of steam last year they, the 'Cats still improved on Huses first season, and in his 8 years as a head coach his teams win loss record has always improved over the previous years record.

That's funny, because I have heard cat fans say they think it is time for Huse to produce. As far as the attendance goes, I would be embarassed to brag about the attendance numbers at either program when we both know they lag behind histoirc numbers at both programs. The percentage increazse sounds great, but come on, it doesn't take a math major to understand you are going to have a higher percentage increase when you start at a low level. Frankly, both programs have a long way to go building the basketball fan base, and the only proven method is winning. :twocents:

 

[PlayerRep]

I don't know if O'Day makes any specific suggestions to the head coaches on who they should hire as assistants, but I'm sure they don't listen.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Just a slight FYI on 2 of our young bigs, from 2 good sources.

Selvig is looking very good and up to 220 lbs. Qvale is up to a very tough 260 lbs. I wish this could be more detailed, but nonethless thought I would pass the fyi on. Selvig at 220 is encouraging, I would like to see him to 240 to 250, but 220 is solid for him.

I cannot confirm it, but expect some Matt Martin updates possibly soon.

The Selvig/Qvale update though has been confirmed though by more than 1 person to me. :thumb:

Speaking of updates, has anyone seen the boys or girls in open gyms this summer? If so, please fill us in. Thank you

 

[PlayerRep]

Martin is signing in Europe. A press release will be out soon.

 

[interested]

Everyone talks about the men's team, what about the Lady Griz? Do they have open gym, I heard Ali Hurley, is going to summer school and is working out a lot with the trainers---does anyone know if she will play or redshirt? What about the other girls??? Someone fill us in!

 

[Mslacat]

Everyone talks about the men's team, what about the Lady Griz? Do they have open gym, I heard Ali Hurley, is going to summer school and is working out a lot with the trainers---does anyone know if she will play or redshirt? What about the other girls??? Someone fill us in!

The men's and women's teams historically (at least back to the 70's) have always played pick up ball in the summer at one of the gyms on campus. I would guess it is the annex gym, most of the time unless something is going on on campus. The pick up games are open gym so it is not uncommon to see other playing with them. That may include ex players, some of their friends, possibly better local high school players, and maybe a member of Pearl Jam. The time is usually late afternoon or evening, and is usually just an agreed upon time by the players, since coaches can not be there or control it.

On the question as to whether a player (Hurley or anyone) will play or not, I do not think any of those desicions have been made yet. While Hurley definitely has the reputation / ranking that you tink she would play, a lot of things like position depth, mental and physical maturity; and skill level come into play. Just look at Derek Selvig for the men's team last year. He was only one 3 nationally ranked in the top 150 players last year to redshirt by choice.

 

[EverettGriz]

Everyone talks about the men's team, what about the Lady Griz? Do they have open gym, I heard Ali Hurley, is going to summer school and is working out a lot with the trainers---does anyone know if she will play or redshirt? What about the other girls??? Someone fill us in!

In college, a group of buddies and I -- who all played high school BB-- used to play against the women's team quite often during the summer months. They liked the increased speed and physical aspects that men brought to the game.

(and yes, we did win nearly all the time, but I will admit it was often a battle.... :blush: )

 

[argh!]

Everyone talks about the men's team, what about the Lady Griz? Do they have open gym, I heard Ali Hurley, is going to summer school and is working out a lot with the trainers---does anyone know if she will play or redshirt? What about the other girls??? Someone fill us in!

The men's and women's teams historically (at least back to the 70's) have always played pick up ball in the summer at one of the gyms on campus. I would guess it is the annex gym, most of the time unless something is going on on campus. The pick up games are open gym so it is not uncommon to see other playing with them. That may include ex players, some of their friends, possibly better local high school players, and maybe a member of Pearl Jam. The time is usually late afternoon or evening, and is usually just an agreed upon time by the players, since coaches can not be there or control it.

On the question as to whether a player (Hurley or anyone) will play or not, I do not think any of those desicions have been made yet. While Hurley definitely has the reputation / ranking that you tink she would play, a lot of things like position depth, mental and physical maturity; and skill level come into play. Just look at Derek Selvig for the men's team last year. He was only one 3 nationally ranked in the top 150 players last year to redshirt by choice.

hmmmm... in the pope/krsyko years, the "pick-up" games were always in the old men's gym, and miraculously occurred at the same time that montgomery used the upstairs jogging track for a "workout".

quite the coincidence, that was. i wonder where tinkle hides while he's watching? that must be tough, given his size.

 

[Mslacat]

Everyone talks about the men's team, what about the Lady Griz? Do they have open gym, I heard Ali Hurley, is going to summer school and is working out a lot with the trainers---does anyone know if she will play or redshirt? What about the other girls??? Someone fill us in!

The men's and women's teams historically (at least back to the 70's) have always played pick up ball in the summer at one of the gyms on campus. I would guess it is the annex gym, most of the time unless something is going on on campus. The pick up games are open gym so it is not uncommon to see other playing with them. That may include ex players, some of their friends, possibly better local high school players, and maybe a member of Pearl Jam. The time is usually late afternoon or evening, and is usually just an agreed upon time by the players, since coaches can not be there or control it.

On the question as to whether a player (Hurley or anyone) will play or not, I do not think any of those desicions have been made yet. While Hurley definitely has the reputation / ranking that you tink she would play, a lot of things like position depth, mental and physical maturity; and skill level come into play. Just look at Derek Selvig for the men's team last year. He was only one 3 nationally ranked in the top 150 players last year to redshirt by choice.

hmmmm... in the pope/krsyko years, the "pick-up" games were always in the old men's gym, and miraculously occurred at the same time that montgomery used the upstairs jogging track for a "workout".

quite the coincidence, that was. i wonder where tinkle hides while he's watching? that must be tough, given his size.

Yea, there are a lot of those situations in the good old day's. If the coaches also happen to notice something and it got back to the players... oh wellllllll.

The NCAA has really cracked down on this though the last year. Roy Williams of N. Carolina got in trouble a month or so back when Obama was on campus and played some pick up ball with the UNC team. The whole Athletic department went down to the gym, including Williams and the NCAA got their panties in a bundle about it.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's they used to play in the old "Men's Gym" than in the 80's and 90's they played in what we used to call the women's Gym (I think it officially had another name), I believe now the play in the new annex unless camps are going on.