LadyGriz LG behind the scenes

[GriznMN]

The last LG possession of the 3rd quarter the LG dribble penetrated and were stopped in the paint and all the other LG stood around on the perimeter. One LG looked like they wanted to cut but hesistated and then finally cut when it was too late. This was a perfect opportunity for the Lady Griz to cut to the basket for a pass to the cutter for an uncontested layup. Instead, after multiple pivots in the paint, the Lady Griz put up a contested layup. This is an example why I think the LG need more time playing together.

 

[Griz66]

I think the loss of Dani and MJ has had a huge impact. They were both leaders, very aggressive and were largely responsible for the culture that last year's team had and what is largely missing this year. I am not ready to give up this year and maybe things will come together as they learn to play together as a team

 

[Grizrunr]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said. I'm not going to hit the panic button on the coaches. I'm with GrizJournal. Give them 4 years. I think our absence of a big strong tough girl who can run the floor and guard close to the basket is our biggest challenge. Avery and Land are not interior bruisers. Most of the teams in our conference have at least one bruiser. N Colorado has like 4. I think the offense works, we just don't make wide open 3's, and we ignore the mid range game when there is a wall of big girls wating at the basket to block our drives. As they learn to work better together I think we will at least see better play. End of season, Nate will need to really think about roster construction.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Have you been watching this team this year? deserves Four years? people we are 3-10 last in the Big Sky, with the portal changing teams every year, they don't build teams in 3 or 4 years any more, its every year you’re rebuilding. Been watching LG basketball for over 30 years, in all that time I’ve never watched a LG team that looks as bad as the LG play. Playing top 25 teams and losing by 20-30 points is one thing, play conference opponents and losing by 20 is unacceptable!

His recruiting class for next year (26-27) looks solid, how many of those kids will bail after watching what’s happening?

Assume you were responding to me. I have gone to over 90% of Montana's games since 1981. I'll stick with my point: new hires in D1 basketball are normally given 3-4 year to build a program.

 

[MTbest]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said. I'm not going to hit the panic button on the coaches. I'm with GrizJournal. Give them 4 years. I think our absence of a big strong tough girl who can run the floor and guard close to the basket is our biggest challenge. Avery and Land are not interior bruisers. Most of the teams in our conference have at least one bruiser. N Colorado has like 4. I think the offense works, we just don't make wide open 3's, and we ignore the mid range game when there is a wall of big girls wating at the basket to block our drives. As they learn to work better together I think we will at least see better play. End of season, Nate will need to really think about roster construction.

Yup somehow we missed out on the big/fast/powerful bigs. And it looks to me we offer up Avery into the paint/post area because she does have height/blocking and rebounding strengths. But in terms of Avery I view her biggest strength out front in the guard position, she's an excellent shooter/scorer and to the hoop driver. I hope we don't keep Avery in that lower post position....she's too much of a great ball handler out front. No panic with the coaches, not yet. But I've seen enough...lack of adjustments to 3-perimeter offense set...they just can't execute that with any consistency.

 

[BigSkyBreakdown]

Yup somehow we missed out on the big/fast/powerful bigs. And it looks to me we offer up Avery into the paint/post area because she does have height/blocking and rebounding strengths. But in terms of Avery I view her biggest strength out front in the guard position, she's an excellent shooter/scorer and to the hoop driver. I hope we don't keep Avery in that lower post position....she's too much of a great ball handler out front. No panic with the coaches, not yet. But I've seen enough...lack of adjustments to 3-perimeter offense set...they just can't execute that with any consistency.

To find a legitimate big in the BSC, you almost have to attack the portal (e.g., Izzy Z), look internationally, or take a chance on a high school development kid and be patient for a year or two.

In today’s game, if you’re a big who can run the floor, guard ball-screen (PNR) actions, and rebound, you’re already above the BSC level—on both the men’s and women’s side. Bigs who can do those things are hard to find, and that’s largely because the game has changed. A lot of bigs get opportunities to “level up” when they’d be better served finding a place where they can actually be successful and get PT. As the saying goes, you can’t teach height. But also true you are only the level you can defend at. 6'2/6'3ish WBB and 6'8 or taller in MBB.

If the LG wants a big who can play in Harris’ system, those skills are non-negotiable. On top of that, they need to be able to knock down the trail three, and handle ball in Princeton actions. Once a big can do all of that, you’re no longer just recruiting within the BSC—you’re competing against higher levels, more NIL money, and better overall opportunities. You will have to take a big with flaws and develop them.....Now the question is who does that? There are very few coaches at any level that work specifically with bigs. Just the way the game has changed. We love the Euro model for development over the US for all players.

For example, SUU had a 6’5” lefty big who transferred out a few years ago to NC State and is now at Oregon State. Utah Valley had a big do something similar, transferring to Louisville. In both cases, those players had little to no role at the higher level. Lizzy going to Oregon State in the WCC (not the Pac-12) makes much more sense.

In my opinion, the Big Sky is a development league for bigs. You find a kid, help them get better, they help you for a year or two, and then they bounce.

A lot of people on this board also talk about Travis not being able to recruit bigs for the MBB program. It’s the same issue. Higher levels are willing to take risks on bigs.

ISU MBB has a kid named Otten (sp?) who was under the radar. He committed to Oregon Tech, decommitted, and ended up at ISU. He redshirted, developed, and got significantly better—and now ISU is benefiting from that. Will he stay for his entire career at ISU? Looney can only hope so. Solely based on the fact that he may be able to shoot the 3, switch on ball screens or rebound and run the floor.

Both MBB and WBB staffs have to have a coach that can identify BIGS talent...Can they run the floor and rebound? Can they play in the PNR action and do it well? Meaning are they able to switch, hedge and recover, play drop or ICE coverage? Can the run and chew bubble gum? If so BSC aren't getting them.

At BSC WBB level if they are 6'2 or 6'3 and can do those 3 things and you are recruiting them, you aren't gonna get them. 90% of kids are leveling up to Mountain West, WCC, and now possibly new Pact 12 and beyond.

Just our 2 cents.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

To find a legitimate big in the BSC, you almost have to attack the portal (e.g., Izzy Z), look internationally, or take a chance on a high school development kid and be patient for a year or two.

In today’s game, if you’re a big who can run the floor, guard ball-screen (PNR) actions, and rebound, you’re already above the BSC level—on both the men’s and women’s side. Bigs who can do those things are hard to find, and that’s largely because the game has changed. A lot of bigs get opportunities to “level up” when they’d be better served finding a place where they can actually be successful and get PT. As the saying goes, you can’t teach height. But also true you are only the level you can defend at. 6'2/6'3ish WBB and 6'8 or taller in MBB.

If the LG wants a big who can play in Harris’ system, those skills are non-negotiable. On top of that, they need to be able to knock down the trail three, and handle ball in Princeton actions. Once a big can do all of that, you’re no longer just recruiting within the BSC—you’re competing against higher levels, more NIL money, and better overall opportunities. You will have to take a big with flaws and develop them.....Now the question is who does that? There are very few coaches at any level that work specifically with bigs. Just the way the game has changed. We love the Euro model for development over the US for all players.

For example, SUU had a 6’5” lefty big who transferred out a few years ago to NC State and is now at Oregon State. Utah Valley had a big do something similar, transferring to Louisville. In both cases, those players had little to no role at the higher level. Lizzy going to Oregon State in the WCC (not the Pac-12) makes much more sense.

In my opinion, the Big Sky is a development league for bigs. You find a kid, help them get better, they help you for a year or two, and then they bounce.

A lot of people on this board also talk about Travis not being able to recruit bigs for the MBB program. It’s the same issue. Higher levels are willing to take risks on bigs.

ISU MBB has a kid named Otten (sp?) who was under the radar. He committed to Oregon Tech, decommitted, and ended up at ISU. He redshirted, developed, and got significantly better—and now ISU is benefiting from that. Will he stay for his entire career at ISU? Looney can only hope so. Solely based on the fact that he may be able to shoot the 3, switch on ball screens or rebound and run the floor.

Both MBB and WBB staffs have to have a coach that can identify BIGS talent...Can they run the floor and rebound? Can they play in the PNR action and do it well? Meaning are they able to switch, hedge and recover, play drop or ICE coverage? Can the run and chew bubble gum? If so BSC aren't getting them.

At BSC WBB level if they are 6'2 or 6'3 and can do those 3 things and you are recruiting them, you aren't gonna get them. 90% of kids are leveling up to Mountain West, WCC, and now possibly new Pact 12 and beyond.

Just our 2 cents.

I agree with Big Sky Breakdown's very realistic view of Montana -- essentially a mid-major school competing in a D1 climate -- as an outstanding academic institution in a "remote," location. In my view, the most successful big men at Montana over the past 15 seasons (Brian Qvale, from North Dakota, Martin Breunig from Germany, and Fabijan Kryslovic from Australia) brought different skills to the program. Each contributed unique punch to the program, but I think only Qvale possessed classic "big man" skills (as he proved professionally after UM). I know there are some Griz fans who hold dreams of Montana some day cracking the post-season Big 16... but for what? I'd rather watch a program that succeeds yearly in recruiting "mid-major or even D2 special finds (like a 50% shooter from anywhere beyond the arc) and celebrating if they crack the Top 100 of D1 schools and occasionally get a 12-to-14 post-season rank. Let's face it: most kids of exceptional skill from dense urban regions will simply be "disinterested" in what makes Montana a special place. Wayne Tinkle and current Montana coach Travis DeCuire have done just that -- creating teams that are almost always competing for a Big Sky title at season's end. That's actually more than most schools dream of. Not every Griz team fulfills the promise of upper-mid-major competitiveness, but Montana has an exceptional record (more than mere reputation) of making it to post-season play. We're spoiled, Griz fans. Celebrate the teams we get and go watch them play in person (if you can). Go Griz.

Regarding the women's program... I'll be happy if the young coaches can simply build (re-build) a team that can be competitive in the Big Sky. I don't want to be critical, but the first thing these coaches need to do is recruit kids who can play mid-major ball competitively. Watching the GrizWBB over the past week, I often got the impression that the Griz sort of looked (not being demeaning here) like a D2 team facing mid-major caliber teams in NAU and UNC.

 

[BigSkyBreakdown]

Should a new coach get three or four years to prove themselves? Absolutely. But in today’s climate, a Division I coach must be able to attract talent through the transfer portal quickly because 3 or 4 yrs is out in most places. Lots of coaches turn over competitive rosters in months. IE Sac St with Campell.
For Big Sky Conference programs, portal options are often limited to players whose aspirations exceeded their ability, or those with academic or legal challenges. Because of that, the real recruiting pool becomes Division II, NAIA, and mid- to lower-major Division I players.
That’s an extremely difficult task for programs in the Pacific Northwest that aren’t UW or Oregon.
As a result, coaches who can consistently bring in 8–12 new players per year are incredibly valuable—especially those with strong ties to international recruiting. That’s where the JUCO piece matters.
Region 9 (Wyoming) is loaded with international players, and Region 18—Idaho, Utah, and Colorado—features international-heavy rosters at schools like CSI, SLCC, and NIC. These programs sit right in the Big Sky’s backyard and should absolutely be part of the evaluation process—much like Gillette from CSI was for LG. With that being said the talent across these two conferences that we know of produced players that went to Norrh Texas, UT Arlington, the LG, Florida International and Tulsa.

JUCO coaches are built for this environment. If we were evaluating Big Sky candidates, we’d prioritize coaches with experience managing high roster turnover—JUCO, Division II, or NAIA backgrounds.
A Big Sky staff that includes a JUCO head coach or assistant would be a major asset, particularly when it comes to attracting international talent and navigating the transfer portal.
With all this said.

 

[GriznMN]

Should a new coach get three or four years to prove themselves? Absolutely. But in today’s climate, a Division I coach must be able to attract talent through the transfer portal quickly because 3 or 4 yrs is out in most places. Lots of coaches turn over competitive rosters in months. IE Sac St with Campell.
For Big Sky Conference programs, portal options are often limited to players whose aspirations exceeded their ability, or those with academic or legal challenges. Because of that, the real recruiting pool becomes Division II, NAIA, and mid- to lower-major Division I players.
That’s an extremely difficult task for programs in the Pacific Northwest that aren’t UW or Oregon.
As a result, coaches who can consistently bring in 8–12 new players per year are incredibly valuable—especially those with strong ties to international recruiting. That’s where the JUCO piece matters.
Region 9 (Wyoming) is loaded with international players, and Region 18—Idaho, Utah, and Colorado—features international-heavy rosters at schools like CSI, SLCC, and NIC. These programs sit right in the Big Sky’s backyard and should absolutely be part of the evaluation process—much like Gillette from CSI was for LG. With that being said the talent across these two conferences that we know of produced players that went to Norrh Texas, UT Arlington, the LG, Florida International and Tulsa.

JUCO coaches are built for this environment. If we were evaluating Big Sky candidates, we’d prioritize coaches with experience managing high roster turnover—JUCO, Division II, or NAIA backgrounds.
A Big Sky staff that includes a JUCO head coach or assistant would be a major asset, particularly when it comes to attracting international talent and navigating the transfer portal.
With all this said.

The Griz brought in 3 coaches last year from places with high turnover -

Rachi Wortham from Tacoma Community College. (BTW, is Rachi any relationship to Michael?)

Ryan Frazer from Pasadena City College

Brian Morgan from California State University, East Bay

 

[BigSkyBreakdown]

The Griz brought in 3 coaches last year from places with high turnover -

Rachi Wortham from Tacoma Community College. (BTW, is Rachi any relationship to Michael?)

Ryan Frazer from Pasadena City College

Brian Morgan from California State University, East Bay

NOTED, But what did LG do?

 

[MTbest]

Great insights about the portal/time of the hiring. It made me think how important it was for him to keep Mack and Avery. If those two got plucked from the portal this past spring… yikes.

 

[MTbest]

Always a worry...like Macy Huard, hard to watch high caliber talent leave!!!

 

[GriznMN]

NOTED, But what did LG do?

 

[TheNorthRemembers]

Man they looked AWFUL last night. I know Mack being out is huge but they look straight up lost out there. Idaho didn't just beat them they completely dominated the LG. Probably had ten blocked shots. Idaho did whatever they wanted.

The girls looked confused on offense. Noticed a bunch of players running into each other, passing to nobody. Physically they looked tired and slow by midway through the 2nd quarter. Nobody is hustling for loose balls or grabbing rebounds. Is conditioning an issue? Seems crazy this early into the season. The offense has no rhythm at all. They just pass around the perimeter for the entire shot clock and then jack up an off balance shot at the buzzer. I think i counted two made shots in the paint last night. I like Nate Harris and am rooting for the guy but I think he has some serious answering to do about the product we have out on the court right now. They're in serious jeopardy of finishing worse than Shannon's first season.

I also found it interesting that half of Idaho's roster is international players. They have girls from Brazil, Estonia, Sweden, Portugal and Serbia. How do they recruit them to play in Moscow Idaho?

 

[BigSkyBreakdown]

Man they looked AWFUL last night. I know Mack being out is huge but they look straight up lost out there. Idaho didn't just beat them they completely dominated the LG. Probably had ten blocked shots. Idaho did whatever they wanted.

The girls looked confused on offense. Noticed a bunch of players running into each other, passing to nobody. Physically they looked tired and slow by midway through the 2nd quarter. Nobody is hustling for loose balls or grabbing rebounds. Is conditioning an issue? Seems crazy this early into the season. The offense has no rhythm at all. They just pass around the perimeter for the entire shot clock and then jack up an off balance shot at the buzzer. I think i counted two made shots in the paint last night. I like Nate Harris and am rooting for the guy but I think he has some serious answering to do about the product we have out on the court right now. They're in serious jeopardy of finishing worse than Shannon's first season.

I also found it interesting that half of Idaho's roster is international players. They have girls from Brazil, Estonia, Sweden, Portugal and Serbia. How do they recruit them to play in Moscow Idaho?

Arthur is from Brazil, he recruited a bunch of those players to USF when he was assistant there. He has tons of international connections. Close friends with Campbell and assistant at TCU and the Assistant at TCU is international.

Arthur basically got thrust into that job when the husband wife combo left after one yr to South Dakota.

In two yrs he and his staff have built a BSC title team. Also of note....he has a former LG assistant on his staff too.

To delve into internationals you need connections, a university that supports recruiting internationals and coaches that want to find ways to recruit talent from other countries.

Like we stated earlier in this thread, plenty of JUCOs in the region have those connections. There is no reason a D1 program shouldnt have at least one asst on staff with international connections.

 

[MTbest]

a

Man they looked AWFUL last night. I know Mack being out is huge but they look straight up lost out there. Idaho didn't just beat them they completely dominated the LG. Probably had ten blocked shots. Idaho did whatever they wanted.

The girls looked confused on offense. Noticed a bunch of players running into each other, passing to nobody. Physically they looked tired and slow by midway through the 2nd quarter. Nobody is hustling for loose balls or grabbing rebounds. Is conditioning an issue? Seems crazy this early into the season. The offense has no rhythm at all. They just pass around the perimeter for the entire shot clock and then jack up an off balance shot at the buzzer. I think i counted two made shots in the paint last night. I like Nate Harris and am rooting for the guy but I think he has some serious answering to do about the product we have out on the court right now. They're in serious jeopardy of finishing worse than Shannon's first season.

I also found it interesting that half of Idaho's roster is international players. They have girls from Brazil, Estonia, Sweden, Portugal and Serbia. How do they recruit them to play in Moscow Idaho?

Man they looked AWFUL last night. I know Mack being out is huge but they look straight up lost out there. Idaho didn't just beat them they completely dominated the LG. Probably had ten blocked shots. Idaho did whatever they wanted.

The girls looked confused on offense. Noticed a bunch of players running into each other, passing to nobody. Physically they looked tired and slow by midway through the 2nd quarter. Nobody is hustling for loose balls or grabbing rebounds. Is conditioning an issue? Seems crazy this early into the season. The offense has no rhythm at all. They just pass around the perimeter for the entire shot clock and then jack up an off balance shot at the buzzer. I think i counted two made shots in the paint last night. I like Nate Harris and am rooting for the guy but I think he has some serious answering to do about the product we have out on the court right now. They're in serious jeopardy of finishing worse than Shannon's first season.

I also found it interesting that half of Idaho's roster is international players. They have girls from Brazil, Estonia, Sweden, Portugal and Serbia. How do they recruit them to play in Moscow Idaho?

A big dent w/o Mac, but even w/o her, the offense game scheme perimeter 3's not working, and as Krista Redpath (former LG commentator) observed missed shots few rebounds/few 2nd opportunities. And Redpath noted Avery not in the scoring picture as she has been. We do not have enough forward/bigs support as most other teams we have 2, most teams at least 4. We are guard happy, that's ok if there is more scoring, but that's not the case. As for Avery, a 6'3 guard, we've put her in the forward slot..becasuse we don't have enough tall player support. She's versatile, an excellent guard in that position scores very well...but we already have too many guards, so we stuck her into a "bigs" position by default, and in my opinion we don't get the scoring potential from her. The LG may "ripen" as time goes on this season,( I remind myself hey its a rebuild team/season) we have a lot of talent. As for the recruiting season...please no more guards!

 

[Griz til I die]

Here's my thoughts on the LG. For weeks now, we've been bitching about Football and the 3-3-5 defense and how gimmicky it is. It's not gap sound, it's chaotic, and when you get up against these teams with large fronts who can run the ball well, it gets exposed. The LG also run this gimmicky 5 out offense where there really isn't a post presence and for the most part, it's just live or die by the 3. It works great when you're knocking down 3s, but when you're not then it's very easy to exploit. I can't think of another instance right now anywhere in College Basketball where a team runs a base 5 Out offense. You just don't see it. IMO until they scrap that, it's gonna be tough sledding for the LG.

 

[TrueGriz]

a



A big dent w/o Mac, but even w/o her, the offense game scheme perimeter 3's not working, and as Krista Redpath (former LG commentator) observed missed shots few rebounds/few 2nd opportunities. And Redpath noted Avery not in the scoring picture as she has been. We do not have enough forward/bigs support as most other teams we have 2, most teams at least 4. We are guard happy, that's ok if there is more scoring, but that's not the case. As for Avery, a 6'3 guard, we've put her in the forward slot..becasuse we don't have enough tall player support. She's versatile, an excellent guard in that position scores very well...but we already have too many guards, so we stuck her into a "bigs" position by default, and in my opinion we don't get the scoring potential from her. The LG may "ripen" as time goes on this season,( I remind myself hey its a rebuild team/season) we have a lot of talent. As for the recruiting season...please no more guards!

Unfortunately, 3 of the 4 recruits for next year are guards.

 

[maroonandsilver]

Unfortunately, 3 of the 4 recruits for next year are guards.

Very true. But I hazard to guess they will be replacing some of the poor-performing guards on the current roster. And hopefully Harris will be successful with the Portal to bring in some bigs.

Unfortunately, 3 of the 4 recruits for next year are guards.

Very true. But I hazard to guess that the new recruit guards will be replacing some of the poor-performing guards on the current roster. And hopefully Harris will hit the Portal for some bigs.

 

[Grizrunr]

IMO we don't have the talent needed to run a successful 5 out offense. Konig is really the only guard who can blow by her defender for drives to the basket, but as we have all seen, other teams just camp a couple big girls in the paint to wait for her. We get a lot of wide open 3 attempts, but again, as we have all seen, we don't make them. Guard the 3 point line, park a big girl in the paint and your chances of beating us are pretty good. I think most of us are in agreement.that Harris is going to need to have some honest conversations at the end of this season and then work the portal with everything he's got.