Lets talk about CTE

[hilinegrizfan]

There's been a lot of players hanging up the cleats because of "mental and physical" health issues and its obvious they are talking about danger of CTE. I'm not denying CTE exists. I know that it does and obviously getting hit in the head 1000 times puts you at a higher risk, and everyone has the freedom to stop playing when they see fit.

My question is why is this brain damage due to playing football a new phenomenon? Is it solely because we now have the technology to detect it in the brain though advanced imaging? I'm genuinely asking if there is a history of football players, say 15 years ago suffering from unexplained depression and other serious mental health issues? It just seems like there are a HUGE number of players, past a present, that have hit and been hit countless times with no side effects whatsoever. Perhaps some players are just more susceptible to taking hits. And if that is the case, I don't think that the sport of football itself should be attacked as this brain damaging game that is under so much scrutiny.

There is risk all around us every day, - risk of getting hit by a car, or a bridge collapsing, or smacking your head really hard on a doorway (that happens to me a lot at 6'5"). I didn't end up playing in college but I played all through junior high and high school as a QB and safety. Took plenty of hits and delivered a lot as well. I wasn't every worried about brain damage and honestly I'm still not. I feel like it should be up to the individual to decide if they are feeling well enough and confident enough to play without worry, rather than ostracize an entire sport as a danger to mental health because a select few who are getting these reports of CTE.

Curious to hear other input.

 

[AZDoc]

Doing sports medicine, I deal with concussions/head injuries on a regular basis. I see how these athletes and other adults change with the trauma. You don't really diagnose any of it with "advanced imaging" so don't think that is the issue. I think that there are quite a few factors that can contribute. I'm sure some of it has to do with genetic predisposition to develop the deposits on the brain that lead to CTE. There is a small percentage of players that develop that problem, but it's so bad that it's become a focus.
I think there are also a lot of players/ex players that have more subtle issues for life including depression and headaches that we don't really see or read about because they didn't kill themselves and donate their brain.
I think the focus in football is the big hit, and has been for years, and that contributes to just numbers of injuries. If the game would truly focus on quality "form tackling" perhaps there would be a general decline in the numbers game.
The athletes are freaks now. Even more than in the 90s when I played. If two Ford Focuses have a head on, it's not as impressive as if 2 Ferraris have one.
I also have felt for years that kids play tackle football way too young. A fairly recent study came out showing that head injuries younger than 12 can really affect you later on. I will also tell you treating a 10 year old with a concussion can sometimes take considerably longer than a more developed brain.
I tell my patients all the time things have changed on how we deal with concussions in general. My joke is that they used to ask what country we were in, and if you said Canada it was close enough to where we were in Montana that they'd let you play. I think concussions now are such a focus that we are losing a lot of kids that would otherwise be great players and enjoy playing, just because of the small risk of developing something significant down the road. Question really is...are you willing to deal with that risk, no matter the percentage? I have absolutely full respect to any kid that wants to hang up the cleats and not take that risk. Just my 2 cents.

 

[dirtysoup]

I think it's become more of an issue now because of the new research being done. I can't recall the exact numbers but a study was released not long ago where they tested the brains of men that had played at different levels of football from high school to professional and all but 1 had CTE. I don't know about other sports, but it seems football has the highest rate of head trauma. The other thing is that mental health has been such a stigma to talk about, especially by men seen as being tough and macho. The walls on that stigma are slowly coming down and it's being discussed. I think players who thought they had brain issues also didn't say anything because it would cost them their career and their paycheck. I think some are changing their priorities in that way.

I would bet if a test is ever created to analyze the brain on someone living, more players would quit. Seeing for yourself what your brain looks like could have a huge affect on your decision to play. Football will never be completely safe, but more safety measures need to be taken (rules and equipment) or the future of the game will be bleak. I don't want to see flag football either, but CTE is not something to mess around with.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

I feel like Football is just the tip of the iceberg with sports associated with CTE. Especially in football, it isn't all the huge BOOM type hits - it is all the constant start stop mini collisions - particularly oline and dline. I would think that soon, soccer with an emphasis on heading the ball will be looked at as well since you're doing essentially the same thing to your brain.

 

[Ursus1]

I fully believe CTE will be the reason many quit playing and totally understand their decision, but I also think in some cases it will be used as the reason they quit when in reality they quit for other reasons (not turning out as good as they thought, don't like the work needed, know they will be buried in a depth chart etc ) .

 

[IdaGriz01]

Right now, in my mind, the best part is that the issue is being seriously studied. But the numbers suggest that the vast majority of those who played a lot of football (say, through college) do not suffer debilitating brain injuries. Is that valid? Right now, we do not have enough "clean" data to decide one way or another. Hopefully, with the increased attention, that will come.

And I still come back to boxing and UFC, where the basic object of the activity is to punch the opponent's lights out. In boxing, there is an early-selection process that suggests that people do indeed differ in how they (their brains) react to blows to the head. In this country, at least, no one with a "glass chin" -- i.e., is highly susceptible to a blow to the head -- stays in boxing very long. On the flip side, there are boxers who can, and do, absorb any number of hard punches, with no apparent long-term effects. Some even end up as expert commentators on TV, probably making more money than they ever did in the ring. Are there other boxers who suffer ill effects that we never hear about? Almost certainly.

My point: All this offers anecdotal evidence that the human population exhibits vast differences in how their brains react to blows to the head. That's what we need to learn more about. One day, hopefully, we'll know enough to intelligently advise young people where they stand on the continuum.

 

[bigtyme]

Doing sports medicine, I deal with concussions/head injuries on a regular basis. I see how these athletes and other adults change with the trauma. You don't really diagnose any of it with "advanced imaging" so don't think that is the issue. I think that there are quite a few factors that can contribute. I'm sure some of it has to do with genetic predisposition to develop the deposits on the brain that lead to CTE. There is a small percentage of players that develop that problem, but it's so bad that it's become a focus.
I think there are also a lot of players/ex players that have more subtle issues for life including depression and headaches that we don't really see or read about because they didn't kill themselves and donate their brain.
I think the focus in football is the big hit, and has been for years, and that contributes to just numbers of injuries. If the game would truly focus on quality "form tackling" perhaps there would be a general decline in the numbers game.
The athletes are freaks now. Even more than in the 90s when I played. If two Ford Focuses have a head on, it's not as impressive as if 2 Ferraris have one.
I also have felt for years that kids play tackle football way too young. A fairly recent study came out showing that head injuries younger than 12 can really affect you later on. I will also tell you treating a 10 year old with a concussion can sometimes take considerably longer than a more developed brain.
I tell my patients all the time things have changed on how we deal with concussions in general. My joke is that they used to ask what country we were in, and if you said Canada it was close enough to where we were in Montana that they'd let you play. I think concussions now are such a focus that we are losing a lot of kids that would otherwise be great players and enjoy playing, just because of the small risk of developing something significant down the road. Question really is...are you willing to deal with that risk, no matter the percentage? I have absolutely full respect to any kid that wants to hang up the cleats and not take that risk. Just my 2 cents.

I appreciate this insight. We as a sports driven society are pushing kids at a very early age and the brain development has to be a significant factor in brain health. I would say that any activity that involves continual concussive-like impact on the head during development stages would reasonably be at least moderate risk for long term challenges. So my questions are what age does a male's brain stop developing and to what extent does brain impact at a early age contribute to this problem? I would imagine there is a consistent part of the brain (Amygdala???) that is injured in football compared to other types of concussive events.

I would also presume diet during brain development is a consideration for whole life brain health. Our SAD, without research at my immediate fingertips, seems to also be a factor to
memory and attention challenges in our culture.

 

[Grizzoola]

...So my questions are what age does a male's brain stop developing and to what extent does brain impact at a early age contribute to this problem? ....

Several years ago, I read a Time Magazine article that said the human brain is not fully developed until age 25.

 

[Jaymerz]

... but I also think in some cases it will be used as the reason they quit when in reality they quit for other reasons (not turning out as good as they thought, don't like the work needed, know they will be buried in a depth chart etc ) .

This. I completely agree. Reference the Dax Solis thread, and the link I posted there to his interview with the Kitsap Sun news paper. Appears he initially tweeted he was leaving Montana for health concerns, but now seems like he definitely left for completely different reasons. I think it's a perfect example of what you're saying, Ursus.

 

[Gaeilge1]

With regard to the issue of CTE, football and other sports there is empirical evidence to suggest that the reason you see more development of CTE in football players, particularly linemen is the sheer repetitive number of hits to the head over the course of a career. It is estimated that the average lineman who plays four years of college ball will over the course of years from 7th grade through their senior college season will have sustained 30 to 40,000 hits to the head! This includes both practice and game time hits. This is several times what the average boxer or soccer player is going to incur. In addition that is only through college. If a player spends five years as a pro that figure can increase by 10 to 15,000!!

Think about that for a minute. What would you be like if by age 24 you had been hit in the head with force 30,000 times? Add in the force behind those hits and it's no wonder so many of these men have problems.

The "C" in CTE stands for chronic, but I've also heard it used to stand for cumulative. The condition is not new. It was formerly thought to primarily exist in boxer's and was known dementia pugilistica or being put choice drunk. You will also find it veterans who have sustained brain injuries and other athletes such as wrestlers and martial arts fighters. The MMA has/had an advisory committee looking in to its effects on their athletes.

The bottom line here is that any young man who has had even one diagnosed concussion while playing a collision sport such as football should be apprised of the cumulative nature of concussions and allowed to make an informed decision on whether they want to assume future risk. It is their decision.

 

[Gaeilge1]

That should read punch drunk, not "put choice drunk". Damn automatic editing!