lack of talent 2

[citygriz]

okay, another discouraging performance in which we played yet again only one half. but i think the stats "bear" out some of my major contentions:

--we do not have a bona fide point guard. eight assists versus twelve turnovers combined from rundles, elgin-taylor and martin. these guys are not point guards.
--our only legitimate center is a true freshman who played a total of six minutes.
--we do not have a three, period.

i just finished watching washington state polish off a much more athletic u.s.c. team by 15 points. they're well-coached (if extremely boring), play tough tough defense, but also have all the parts you need--an experienced center in aron baynes, a wonderful point guard in derrick lowe, and an athletic defensive stopper at the wing in kyle weaver. by next year, we should have the parts we need.

after that, it's strictly a matter of intensity. is tinks intense enough? i heard some sports-talk radio tonight about ben howland, and how he's absoutely nuts about defense, one of the most fervent intense coaches you'll ever meet, and how his team is a reflection of his personality. one guy says, you'll think you've had a great five-minute stretch against ucla, but when you look up, you see you've scored five points. that's ben howland.

the more i look at college coaches, the more i see what mean nasty guys the successful ones can be--bobby knight, eddie sutton, even our own jud heathcote and larry krystkowiak. nice guys off the court, but on the court they're like that siberian tiger that went after her tormentor at the san francisco zoo. is tinks a siberian tiger?

i dunno, but first things first--the right parts.

 

[Grizbacker1]

Can't argue with any of your sentiments City. Hold them to a couple 3's, out rebound them, and then just become stupid with the ball in the second half.

 

[AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen]

If this is a thread about lack of talent... did you watch the first half? complete and total domination. people need to man up and admit it, talent is not the issue, it's consistency.

Things mentioned in the first post are what makes a great team, a #4 in the country team. We just need to win the big sky and beat other various moderately crappy teams. Face it, we have enough talent.

 

[Grizbacker1]

If this is a thread about lack of talent... did you watch the first half? complete and total domination. people need to man up and admit it, talent is not the issue, it's consistency.

Things mentioned in the first post are what makes a great team, a #4 in the country team. We just need to win the big sky and beat other various moderately crappy teams. Face it, we have enough talent.

City didn't say there was no talent. He said pretty clearly where the Griz are weak and were exploited. You cannot have 12 turnovers and 13 fouls from your guards.How many assists did they have? Who is a legitimate 3 man on the team?

YOu are right about the 1st half, but basketball has two halves, and the Griz have been less than stellar in the second half all season. Maybe they will figure it out Saturday, I hope so. I am not throwing in the towel, but will admit to the obvious. :twocents:

 

[BelierPeaux]

So what contributes to these second half collapses? I know there are adjustments made at half, are our coaches just not responding well enough? I am asking seriously here. Maybe the team isn't conditioned properly and just gets gassed? That could be as Tinkle doesn't like to sub save for foul trouble, it seems. Anyone else know, lord knows I don't know enough of BBall strategy...

 

[Grizbacker1]

So what contributes to these second half collapses? I know there are adjustments made at half, are our coaches just not responding well enough? I am asking seriously here. Maybe the team isn't conditioned properly and just gets gassed? That could be as Tinkle doesn't like to sub save for foul trouble, it seems. Anyone else know, lord knows I don't know enough of BBall strategy...

They didn't look tired to me. This is just my opinion, but it sure seems like this team has no margin for error. In the second half there were mental lapses, and that is all it takes against a good team. I will give the Griz credit for boarding the ball, playing great perimeter D against the premiere 3 pt shooting team in the BSC, but the turnovers, many unforced killed them. You cannot have 22 turnovers period. I still think they will beat Sac.

 

[AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen]

If this is a thread about lack of talent... did you watch the first half? complete and total domination. people need to man up and admit it, talent is not the issue, it's consistency.

Things mentioned in the first post are what makes a great team, a #4 in the country team. We just need to win the big sky and beat other various moderately crappy teams. Face it, we have enough talent.

City didn't say there was no talent. He said pretty clearly where the Griz are weak and were exploited. You cannot have 12 turnovers and 13 fouls from your guards.How many assists did they have? Who is a legitimate 3 man on the team?

YOu are right about the 1st half, but basketball has two halves, and the Griz have been less than stellar in the second half all season. Maybe they will figure it out Saturday, I hope so. I am not throwing in the towel, but will admit to the obvious. :twocents:

While they played 'weak' in the second half of tonight I don't really think we're all that weak at that position. No we don't have a carlos taylor, but no other team has a jordan hasquet either. CET is more than capable of running the point if he runs it to the best of his ability. Staudacher was phenomenal in the first half as a third guard. Martin also played well in the first. the talent and ability is there. the consistency is not. Plus, on the foul trouble, there was some real iffy stuff in there there.

 

[Grizbacker1]

If this is a thread about lack of talent... did you watch the first half? complete and total domination. people need to man up and admit it, talent is not the issue, it's consistency.

Things mentioned in the first post are what makes a great team, a #4 in the country team. We just need to win the big sky and beat other various moderately crappy teams. Face it, we have enough talent.

City didn't say there was no talent. He said pretty clearly where the Griz are weak and were exploited. You cannot have 12 turnovers and 13 fouls from your guards.How many assists did they have? Who is a legitimate 3 man on the team?

YOu are right about the 1st half, but basketball has two halves, and the Griz have been less than stellar in the second half all season. Maybe they will figure it out Saturday, I hope so. I am not throwing in the towel, but will admit to the obvious. :twocents:

While they played 'weak' in the second half of tonight I don't really think we're all that weak at that position. No we don't have a carlos taylor, but no other team has a jordan hasquet either. CET is more than capable of running the point if he runs it to the best of his ability. Staudacher was phenomenal in the first half as a third guard. Martin also played well in the first. the talent and ability is there. the consistency is not. Plus, on the foul trouble, there was some real iffy stuff in there there.

True, but NAU won the game on points scored off turnovers

 

[IamYou]

Tony Bennet is one of the most calm and collected coaches in the country - but he gets what he wants from his players. Coaching is about getting what you want from your players. Intensity isn't always the answer - for guys like Howland and Knight, maybe it is. Bennet- hell no. Tinks just can't figure out how to get what he wants- it might be too late. The more you lose, the more you lose grip of your team.

 

[Montana Gym Rat]

While the Griz may not have a true PG, that's no excuse for not working the ball into the posts.

During Krysko's stay, almost every single possession went through Strait. The guards were constantly berated about creating offense - their shots had to come out of the offense. And the offense went through the post.

You establish the inside game to free up the outside game, not the other way around.


As for this game - it was turnovers. Plain and simple, case closed. At this level, TOs are usually from mental errors - not lack of talent.

And you can also look at past box scores and see that this team usually has more assists than turnovers. So they know how to take care of the ball, they just didn't make it a priority last night.

What I can't comprehend is why the guy who shoots 60% from the field is only getting 8 looks a night.

 

[ronangrizfan]

Consistency translates to focus. Or lack thereof.

 

[Lou]

You know it's getting bad when your site has to have a sequel to the first lack of talent topic.

 

[Big Apple Ram]

You know it's getting bad when your site has to have a sequel to the first lack of talent topic.

Real college athletic programs have Football Teams. What's the matter with you fairies?

 

[Lou]

You know it's getting bad when your site has to have a sequel to the first lack of talent topic.

Real college athletic programs have Football Teams. What's the matter with you fairies?

Well we're just not a real athletic program....we're fake. How does it feel to be beaten by a fake athletic program?

 

[robomomo]

agree with all of your sentiments, but I think we have enough talent to run away in the BSC. I'm a combo Griz and MN Gopher fan and the Gophers had the same problems the grizzlies do this year. No point guard, a bunch of 2 guards and a coach who could not mold what he had into a team.

As a result they had an abysmal record, got beat by the Griz, and couple of D-2 teams, and won 1 or 2 Big Ten games, can't remember.

This year the gophers are 12-3 with the exact same team. Really the only thing that changed was Tubby Smith. He got the point guard Lawrence Mackenzie (who's much more talented than CAM but played like him last year) to play the true point, and everyone now knows and executes their roles.

Coaching is everything and this year's Griz are not implementing any semblance of team basketball.