Krystowiak vs. Pflugrad

[Blgs Griz Fan]

It seems to me that Coach Pflu was lax on off field discipline from day one. In fact there was concern for on field discipline from that time as well. Some of the players probably realized this and took advantage of the situation. Eventually it erupted into far too many issues of the field for the University to tolerate. I think Pflu set his fate in montion from the very beginning. It's to bad O Day got caught up in it.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

And they are both to short sighted to understand why they were let go, and what they could have done different. Confirming to me exactly why they were let go, they just don't get the big picture that a leader needs to see. This to me is what defines a great leader. It is easy for anyone to deal with success, but how they deal with failure that will define their true character and strength as a person. !

Chris, maybe we need a new category for the anonymous philosophers to post their hypothesis about life. :thumb:

 

[UMGriz75]

It seems to me that Coach Pflu was lax on off field discipline from day one. In fact there was concern for on field discipline from that time as well. Some of the players probably realized this and took advantage of the situation.

Getting into a fight with your girlfriend (JJ) or taking advantage of/misunderstanding with long time female friend spending the night at his house (BD) is something that a player does because he thinks the coach let's him "take advantage of" what amounts to some level of a domestic dispute?

The two confirmed incidents here -- and the details of right and wrong are not confirmed -- were both about as private as it can get; not party situations, not rampaging athletes at sororities or anything like that; neither incident had anything to do with athletics, per se, the Campus per se, party cultures per se, or even being athletes per se.

Indeed, Pflugrad took steps to turn the "culture" around, from the Montana Kaimin, March 28:

In last week’s Friday Kaimin, the story “Jock Culture: behind the stereotype of athletes and alcohol” described a Montana Grizzly football initiation party that had occurred for years. What it didn’t state, however, is that the party did not take place in the fall of 2011.

This party may have happened for decades, but Montana Grizzly football head coach Robin Pflugrad, along with his staff and players, worked tirelessly to prevent the party from happening again last fall. The team’s senior leadership council, which comprises players from every position and class level, was instrumental in preventing the party from taking place.

“We had enough facts and information that it was a detriment to our progression as a football team,” Pflugrad said Wednesday afternoon in his office. “(Last fall) being our second season together, we did not want to take a step backward.”

People who rent out warehouse facilities were contacted and were told that the UM athletic department should “be privy of information if there was a rental by someone they knew was on the football team,” Pflugrad said. Attempting to stop the party was also brought up to UM Athletic Director Jim O’Day and Vice President Jim Foley.

Pflugrad said that some former players thought the party was “a ritual, a passage,” but the Griz football staff disagreed completely. “It’s not easy to change that many years of tradition,” he said

But, the circumstances regarding both JJ and BD were entirely personal; neither related to public behavior, nor athletics ... nor even college for that matter.

What a coach might do to anticipate and prevent those gets down to something that demands a solution that does not reasonably exist.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I am hearing rumblings that season ticket holders will not renew their tickets, boosters will not continue their contributions, Lawyers Datsopoulos and Edwards to sue the very University they claim to care so much about. In the famous words of Vince Lombardi "What the hell is going on out here?". In light of all the problems and allegations, this knee jerk, "sky is falling", short term thinking mentality is frankly embarrassing.

Look how Larry handled his situation down in Utah. He literally sacrificed an entire season by kicking off players who wouldn't follow his rules, cleaned house of the bad apples and bad behavior. He kicked off the leading scorer in the middle of the season for missing practice and having a bad attitude. No charges, no criminal offenses. Just didn't follow his rules and society in general. Discipline is the cornerstone of his program. Larry sees the big picture and the kind of clean program, player and person he wants. My guess he will ultimately create a very successful program, but even if he doesn't he didn't sacrifice his principles and did it the right way.

Now look at Pflugrad. He fell back on whether criminal charges were filed or not. When Trumaine and Kemp had their charges involving the Missoula Police. He suspended them 1/4 of a meaningless game. Justified tazing or not, he missed the big picture and the message he could have sent to the community and other players. JJ's situation was even worse. Instead of holding him out of Spring practice in light of pending allegations and other allegations of other players, whether true or not. He and O'Day reinstate him as quickly as they suspended him, and then Pflugrad publicly proclaimed his great character. In each case, they missed an opportunity to define what they expect of the players and their behavior. They could have sent a message that no player, game or situation is bigger than the program. That sometimes short term sacrifices or discipline will mean more for the long term and have a much bigger impact, then one player missing a game or even (god forbid) losing a game. And they are both to short sighted to understand why they were let go, and what they could have done different. Confirming to me exactly why they were let go, they just don't get the big picture that a leader needs to see.

This to me is what defines a great leader. Larry has it and gets it, Robin doesn't. Also, complain all you want about the President, and maybe he should be gone too. But, you can't question whether he has the Balls to make a tough decision. Do you think any coaches or players will question who is in charge and what is expected of them, and whether they are expendable or not??? I think not!!!

So don't renew your season tickets if you see fit, others will be standing by to buy them. Drop your contributions, if you take some satisfaction out of that, it will hurt many not just the President. Pflugrad and O'Day file your lawsuits thru your so called big supporters of the program. But I for one, will not let the program be defined by this set back. It is often said that the greatness of a person or program is not defined by how they deal with success, but rather how they deal with adversity. It is easy for anyone to deal with success, but how they deal with failure that will define their true character and strength as a person. I have found in life that I learn a lot more from failure than success. When I have success, I think I have it all figured out and change nothing. When I fail, I analyze what I have done wrong and go back to the drawing board and try to fix the problems and make sure I don't do it again. I hope everyone can learn something from this adversity.

The excellence of this program cannot be attributed to one coach, player, person, play or game. It is years of numerous contributions from many people, each contributing in their own way to the ongoing success and growth of the program. No one person is bigger than the program. To think otherwise would be a great disservice to everyone who has come before this situation and will ultimately destroy the program.

The games will go on, players and coaches will come and go. I, for one, will still go to the games and cheer the good plays and complain about the bad, thru the wins and losses, I will be there.

Go Griz!!!!

Bravo Zulu. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[PTGrizzly]

What happens if every day for the next few months a player gets accused of sexual assault until we have no players left and then the coaches get accused and then proffesors and then administrators and finally Royce gets accussed...now what do we do???

Exactly. These firings do nothing but make people feel like they are better than others. Society hasnt changed and most of the guys on this board are to lazy to care about trying to make our society a better place by being actively involved in changing the culture of violence, drugs, etc. MSU is a good example of how nothing will change. One player nearly beats another MSU athlete to death recently and half the MSU team fails a drug test.

This is nothing more than a knee jerk feel good reaction. The issues student athletes have on or off the field are a direct reflection of the issues we as americans create in our own society.

Now we have a climate were any accusation is a guilty verdict until you are proven innocent. Any person accused of anything is immediately punished, the law be damned, the actual athlete conduct code be damned.

But things could change if people get more involved in their own childrens lives and the lives of other children teaching them to treat others like they want to be treated with respect. But why do that when its easier to blame the coach for failing to teach your own kids morals.

Lulz. None of your comments on the MSU players are remotely accurate. I think around 2-3 kids failed the drug test, with 2 of them getting kicked off. The athlete who got his shit rocked, well he started the fight but he wasn't even close to being beaten to death, he got his ass kicked, but not nearly to death. Also notice how everybody involved was punished...it makes a difference.

 

[AZGrizFan]

What happens if every day for the next few months a player gets accused of sexual assault until we have no players left and then the coaches get accused and then proffesors and then administrators and finally Royce gets accussed...now what do we do???

Can we deal in reality? It's ugly enough. :roll:

 

[George Ferguson]

Gametime..That was an excellent post. Well said. A couple of points though.

1. I don't think your portrayal of Krysko is entirely accurate or at least it's a little misleading. There are very FEW people in the basketball world right now that are as driven to win as Krysko. He is as intense a competitor as you'll find and you kind of make it sound like that's not his primary focus as the head coach of Utah. You make it sound as though he's going home at night, eating his milk and cookies and his world is all roses because he is running his program cleanly and the right way. I can tell you that's not the case. His world was not all roses every night just because he was being a disciplanarian.

2. Also, you do get the fact that no matter how CLEAN things are at UTAH or how tough Krysko is on discipline and getting guys that do the right things, IF he continues to lose games at this rate he will be eventually get fired. APR, no arrests and good attitudes will not be enough at the Pac 12 level and we all know it, and so does Larry.

 

[Gametime]

Gametime..That was an excellent post. Well said. A couple of points though.

1. I don't think your portrayal of Krysko is entirely accurate or at least it's a little misleading. There are very FEW people in the basketball world right now that are as driven to win as Krysko. He is as intense a competitor as you'll find and you kind of make it sound like that's not his primary focus as the head coach of Utah. You make it sound as though he's going home at night, eating his milk and cookies and his world is all roses because he is running his program cleanly and the right way. I can tell you that's not the case. His world was not all roses every night just because he was being a disciplanarian.

2. Also, you do get the fact that no matter how CLEAN things are at UTAH or how tough Krysko is on discipline and getting guys that do the right things, IF he continues to lose games at this rate he will be eventually get fired. APR, no arrests and good attitudes will not be enough at the Pac 12 level and we all know it, and so does Larry.

I dont't disagree with anything you said havgrizfan. In fact, if I was playing for Larry and I really screwed up, I would be more worried about getting knocked on my ass or my head put through a wall, then I would be about getting suspended or kicked off the team

 

[granitegriz]

 

[argh!]

buncha communiss lynch mawbers.

 

[Bear Spray]

What happens if every day for the next few months a player gets accused of sexual assault until we have no players left and then the coaches get accused and then proffesors and then administrators and finally Royce gets accussed...now what do we do???

Exactly. These firings do nothing but make people feel like they are better than others. Society hasnt changed and most of the guys on this board are to lazy to care about trying to make our society a better place by being actively involved in changing the culture of violence, drugs, etc. MSU is a good example of how nothing will change. One player nearly beats another MSU athlete to death recently and half the MSU team fails a drug test.

This is nothing more than a knee jerk feel good reaction. The issues student athletes have on or off the field are a direct reflection of the issues we as americans create in our own society.

Now we have a climate were any accusation is a guilty verdict until you are proven innocent. Any person accused of anything is immediately punished, the law be damned, the actual athlete conduct code be damned.

But things could change if people get more involved in their own childrens lives and the lives of other children teaching them to treat others like they want to be treated with respect. But why do that when its easier to blame the coach for failing to teach your own kids morals.

Lulz. None of your comments on the MSU players are remotely accurate. I think around 2-3 kids failed the drug test, with 2 of them getting kicked off. The athlete who got his shit rocked, well he started the fight but he wasn't even close to being beaten to death, he got his ass kicked, but not nearly to death. Also notice how everybody involved was punished...it makes a difference.

+1000. Tokyo, don't be a hypocrite. MSU did have a culture of win at all costs, and don't worry about the victims along the way attitude a few years ago. That has all changed, despite your off base rant. MSU has changed it's leadership, instilled responsibility from the AD all the way down to the players, and is developing a winning program. Go get some sleep.

 

[BearIt]

You are forgetting neither Pflu nor ODay were involved in determining JJ's punishment. It was the committee created by the president that determined it was appropriate for JJ to return.

You can't place anything other than Pflu's comment in the Missoulian on his shoulders related to JJ's discipline. It was the committee not the coach.

Guarenteed u don't know that for sure. I would bet no one on this board knows who suspended Johnson. If what your saying is true which I highly doubt no coached would want to coach there if a committee of peers decides a players punishment.

The forming the ACT was the result of UM's final report from Bartz's report

QB returns on approval of Athletic Conduct Team
By FRITZ NEIGHBOR of the Missoulian
http://missoulian.com/college/griz/qb-r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 963f4.html

 

[stubbins]

You are forgetting neither Pflu nor ODay were involved in determining JJ's punishment. It was the committee created by the president that determined it was appropriate for JJ to return.

You can't place anything other than Pflu's comment in the Missoulian on his shoulders related to JJ's discipline. It was the committee not the coach.

Guarenteed u don't know that for sure. I would bet no one on this board knows who suspended Johnson. If what your saying is true which I highly doubt no coached would want to coach there if a committee of peers decides a players punishment.

the new code of conduct takes away punishment from coaches and the athletic department, I believe.

 

[tnt]

the new code of conduct takes away punishment from coaches and the athletic department, I believe.

It doesn't, but rather than guessing on ALL of this why not take the time to read the reports and the updated codes? There is a wealth of information as well as a pretty good eye into why what has happened has happened.

http://www.umt.edu/president/sexualassault/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From my perspective Oday needed to go he was large part responsible for allowing the "atmosphere" that lead to the problems ("leadership"). Pflu unfortunately was collateral damage. Really couldn't let the AD go and leave the coach in place.

 

[bobhitejr]

O'Day was the problem? I really do not remember him leading the football team out of the tunnel or the leading the basketball teams on to the fieldhouse floor. Coaches lead teams. AD's administer budgets. Plugrad blew this situation wide open with his misundrstanding of how the repeated headlines were bruising his program. His comments on the return of JJ to QB the team during spring ball were an "in your face" to the critics. His tactical move failed. O'Day backed his coach. The president sacked them both. Now, Coach Delaney understands what needs to be done to move the program forward. Let's move on with him. No more fingerpointing toward the UM Adminstration, the MIssoulian, or the critics.

 

[tnt]

O'Day was the problem? I really do not remember him leading the football team out of the tunnel or the leading the basketball teams on to the fieldhouse floor. Coaches lead teams. AD's administer budgets. Plugrad blew this situation wide open with his misundrstanding of how the repeated headlines were bruising his program. His comments on the return of JJ to QB the team during spring ball were an "in your face" to the critics. His tactical move failed. O'Day backed his coach. The president sacked them both. Now, Coach Delaney understands what needs to be done to move the program forward. Let's move on with him. No more fingerpointing toward the UM Adminstration, the MIssoulian, or the critics.

Oday's failure was giving no firm policy. The coaches answer to him. When somebody has no "Rules" to follow and doesn't have the good sense to keep his mouth shut when he is ahead bad things happen...... (But it started before Pflu, he just assumed he was okay...) Fortunately the other sports coaches have more sense.......